Forum Post: OW protesters take too much for granted.
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 8, 2011, 9:03 p.m. EST by utahdebater
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OW Protesters take far too much for granted. They claim to represent the 99% and take for granted that the majority of the 99 support them. They do not. Many of the protesters took for granted that getting a college degree guaranteed them a job. It does not. They take for granted that know much better than anyone else when it comes to money. Many believe that they know better than the experts in the system. Plenty OWers have an overinflated view of themselves. They are also far too disorganized for people to understand what point they are actually trying to get across. Until this is fixed OW will not be taken seriously.
You have to be giving something in order for it to be taken for granted. The masses are being screwed over and over again until the powers that control us take every last penny we have. OWS protestors do NOT take anything for granted.
There are a lot of improvements that need to be made. The list reforms people Americans want to see is long and varied depending on who you talk to. That said, I believe there is one reform that would provide the American people the best chances of seeing other meaningful reforms actually happen - that is REAL, loop-hope free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM! I have seen others on this site calling this the "fulcrum" or pivotal issue. Right now the current legalized bribery, pay-to-play system of campaign donations and paid lobbyists has disenfranchised the American voter. Until this is fixed, any other reform the politicians may try to placate us with (be it a change to healthcare, clamping down predatory school loans, new financial regulations, etc.) will be about as effective as a farmer putting a new roof on his CHICKEN COOP, but still letting the FOX guard it.
We need to go back to the original political currency. Instead of the current system of who can collect the most money from corporations and special interests it should be who has the BEST IDEAS to EFFECTIVELY RUN THE COUNTRY (we don't need "Wealth Redistribution," what we need is "Political Influence Redistribution")!
For the sake our our children and future generations of Americans, we need to take back our democracy from the rich and powerful who are using their vast sums of money to "speak" as if they represent millions of Americans. This "Corporate Personhood" that has crept into our laws is allowing them to manipulating our policies in their favor at the expense of the average American (the recent "Citizens United" Supreme Court ruling is a miscarriage of justice and must be reversed. The $50 or $100 a normal American may give to a political campaign becomes meaningless when corporations or other special interests are handing our millions to buy political access to the decision making process.
For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
So we should let the techno-aristocracy continue to privatize the world into their pockets. Right. A real skeptic would also say: our social institutions take too much for granted. The problem with OWS is that their obvious points are uncomfortable: you might have to participate to make a difference. But why make a better society (it's so hard to imagine! someone bring us an expert!) when you can rely on others to "OccupyUrCouch" and let the world burn. That's fairly heinous. A skeptic has to choose actions despite having no "Knowledge," or die wondering what bag of potato chips to buy. So don't pretend to be a skeptic, when you're just another reactionary. Come out and say: Liberal Bourgeois society is what I embrace, and to protect it, we need to repress our domestic political insurgents. That's fine. But if you embrace 'liberal bourgeois society,' you might find aristocracy intolerable. You might think "hey, this is like the American bourgeois revolution all over again." Instead, you're siding with the king of England? I mean, maybe some people still are "Tories" but the KKK gets more press than they do.
With all due respect that was a really disjointed comment... Could you simplify it? Btw I'm not any where close to being a Liberal.
We teach the virtues of the American Revolution in middle school. "No taxation without representation!" was one protest sign business-owners rallied under.
How is this situation all that different?
http://kids.britannica.com/comptons/article-9310330/Bourgeois-liberalism
I take it I made a valid point because someone deleted my response to this comment.
Essentially because the 99% DO have representation. Senators would not be in office if they only appealed to the 1%. I can see your point though.
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Fair enough point, assuming that the 75% disapproval rate grew to that level after the OWS protests started.
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But how high was the disapproval rate BEFORE the OWS protests started?
The whole point is that the movement brought an awareness to the public that it is insane how our government will not tax the rich. The rich ride the same shitty pot-hole roads as us in NYC, they drive over the same crappy bridges, and OWS pointed out that we are paying more in taxes than the rich. To many people that thought is outrageous. Unless you are in the 1%, I am curious as to what you are told that makes it logical for the rich to not pay as much tax as the rest of the country. Why does the average Republican believe that the rich need all the tax loop holes and incentives. I know that you are told we are creating class welfare- but that is not the case at all. That's what you are told. We also believe in capitalism, so again, why do you believe the rich need to pay less taxes than the middle class. Even Ronald Reagan said to an audience that cheered him and agreed that this should not be a country where a bus driver pays more in taxes than a millionaire.
Good point. You still haven't answered my question though...
If the question was "how high was the disapproval rate before the OWS protests started?" How can I answer that if it hadn't started?
Also keep in mind the mentality is different in cities. Guessing from your screen name you are from Utah. You guys are much more laid back in the big open country.
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"Howard Beale: I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!" ~NETWORK
Once again, a perfect example of OW protesters taking things for granted. OW Protesters believe that people see their lives as having no value when this is not true. OW protesters are creating this perception on their own by engaging in pointless yelling instead of actually DOING something about the problem they perceive.
what lobbying firm do you work for? It's clear that you should start your own movement and stop distracting the people who support occupy here. Keep protesting people. When the corporations who control the politics start asking for another bailout-- go out at protest in masses. don't ever stop. occupy everything, take back the foreclosed homes, and take BACK this country.
I don't work for anyone. I'm in High School. And there's a reason that houses get foreclosed, if banks didn't do this our economy would be even further in the economic rut.
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubsectionID=73&ArticleID=100837
go back to being in high school
Why? I have a right to a voice just as much as you do. Isn't that what the OWS protests are about? Giving EVERYONE a voice? Not just a select few?
OWS protesters are my heroes. I give them credit for going out THERE and getting the attention of the United States. They are what TRUE democracy is about. They take nothing for granted. Most Americans agree with the policies occupy embodies. We will protest until things change. Thus, you are DEAD wrong. Protesters, I salute you. People listen to protesters and it takes courage to go out there and demand the separation between state and corporations!
You state that most Americans agree with the policies when the polls show overwhelmingly that the opposite is true. Most DO NOT support the policies. You just provided me with a perfect example of OW protesters taking things for granted and affirmed my views even further.
I don't know what polls you've been seeing. Actually, you're probably referring to the ones that have unfavorable views of the OWS protests or the protesters. But polls that gauge how people feel about the issues that OWS are demonstrating against are wildly encouraging.
awsome for you. I see out of work combat veterans who can't find a job. I work with them everyday. They have done more for this country then you probably ever will. And they're mad as hell. They want jobs, they don't want corporate bailouts, and they support economic justice. THEY do not take anything for granted.
THEY are not the protesters. Yes combat veterans without work is a problem but being a combat veteran does not guarantee them a job, even they need to be qualified. Just as college grads still need to be qualified.
go back to work for fox news troll
they are shocked and sadden to see cops beat down civilians. Civilians who do nothing but exercise their first amendment rights. They lost their arms and legs [these soldiers] and for better or worse serving this country believing it was to defend these very civil liberties, which are being mocked by the corporate money that influence the politics, which tell the police to pepper spray innocent civilians...they take nothing for granted. YOU take your liberties for granted. Be warned sheep.