Forum Post: OW Does Not Represent 99 Majority
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 7, 2011, 7:46 p.m. EST by utahdebater
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Sorry to break it to you, but saying that you represent the 99% is a complete fallacy. You do not represent the 99. You represent a very small percentage of the country.
OWS is a movement that represents the interests of the 99% whether or not every single person in the 99% is on board.
Unfortunately, many people in the 99% mistakenly think their interests lie with the 1% which is exactly how the 1% want it.
No one asked you to represent the 99% and the logic behind the idea that if we don't think our interests lie with OWS that we MUST surely then think our interests lie with the 1% means you aren't smart enough to represent anyone.
There's a great many, millions, of us out here who don't think either one of you represents our interests and prefer to look after our own interests OURSELVES.
That's fine. So sit back and criticize a movement for trying to make a change. I'm glad, you're at least not defending the 1% as so many do.
I'm criticizing the fact that for all intents and purposes-all OWS is doing is making NOISE, creating CHAOS, and interfering with the rights of other people....something they keep insisting is EVIL when someone else does it (big corps, gov etc.). When you actually DO something that brings about a REAL CHANGE that benefits society-I might be inclined to join or support your MOVEMENT. Right now all I support is your frustration.
That's cool. Keep posting. We're all trying to figure this out. The more people involved the better in my opinion.
Here's a fact I just read: 6 members of the Walton family of Wal-Mart now have a net worth equal to bottom 30% of Americans.
And I have no problem with even ONE penny of that was earned honestly and through hard work and determination. I wish I could say that same thing about myself and my siblings. But here's just ONE link to some of the things the Waltons have done with their money-
http://waltonfamilyfoundation.org/mediacenter/top-five-grantees
George Soros, a major funder and financier behind the OWS movement is worth $22Billion all on his own Warren Buffet-who likes to point out how evil the rich are and agrees with the OWS movement is worth $40 Billion.
What's your point?
Here's a link to the richest people in America from Forbes this year. Take a look. See how many of them are "evil bankers" or CEO's of banks....vs how many of them are "hedge fund" managers or "investors". It might surprise you. http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/
I'm sorry. I don't worship people based on how much money they make from the exploitation of others. And, I'm not impressed by their charitable giving which aggrandizes their pompousness.
Do you have evidence that ALL of these people made ALL or ANY of their money exploiting others? Or do you just choose to believe what you've heard or read because you really just hate rich people and feel that they don't even deserve to be treated as "innocent until proven guilty"-you know...that basic human right?
You can't possibly KNOW what the motives are behind their charitable giving. You can ASSume it, but you can't read minds. Or hearts. Being pompous or arrogant is an equal opportunity character trait. It doesn't take money to act like you're better than anyone else. This particular response by you proves that just fine.
Capitalism has exploitation at its root. That is what capitalism is. It takes capital and labor to produce a profit (the exploitation). I'm not against the wealthy and don't care at all how much wealth they accumulate but when the median wage in this country stands at $26,000, meaning that 1/2 of all Americans earn less than that, I think there's been some serious exploitation. The profits have not been divided up fairly. There's been an effort to keep wages down (they have actually declined significantly in the past decade) and prices going up. This has created the largest gap in income distribution in this country since 1928.
Regarding charity. Why don't we just ensure that people earn a living wage. Why should people have to rely on charity where their resources are controlled by others. What is free about that?
And one more thing....think about ALL the people these 400 people have put to work today-how many lives they've touched through charity and foundations-how many employees they sustain in our country today.
Don't you understand the OWS represents killers, and murderers, and child molesters, ... Prison Guards, and Cop's, and all that is bad in the USA. OWS represents all these demon's.
You would think that they would have excluded the assholes of the USA, which at the very least is 10-20% of the population.
Thus the interesting question to ask is 99% only for rhetoric? Or do they really believe that inside of every Sociopath is a OWS Trooper trying to get out?
My feeling is that this movement is designed to bring everyone in, by design even though in rational thought most of us who THINK know that we would never want a club where the majority were Morons.
Of course the "99%" crap is rhetoric. The people who put this movement together-at the very top-and who are paying for it, and "silently" nudging it along-have spent their entire lives soaking in the brine of rhetoric. It's their native language. It's what their bookshelves are filled with. It's what they teach to all they come in contact with. All you have to do is learn the vocabulary and you'll see it parroted all over this movement.
And that's just the parts of it we can SEE. What's going on below ground, what 80% of the participants in it don't even know, is ever so much worse.
You assume you know what's best for everyone which is why most of the true "99%" don't support you. Many of those on the far end of the spectrum feel superior and believe that everyone else just "knew" what they think they know, then all would be peachy, but that is far from the truth. Most folks seem to just want to be left alone and try to live their life the way they see fit. Far left (OWS) and far right (evangelicals) don't want people living their lives as they choose, rather they want everyone to live they way they want as they truly believe that theirs is the only "proper" way to be.
I know an average wage of $26,000 is not good for everyone. I know 1 in 7 being on food stamps (many of whom work) is not good for everyone. I know 22% of American children living in poverty is not good for everyone. I know an unfair tax structure where the wealthy pay less taxes as a percent of their income than everyone else is not good for everyone. I know a government controlled by the wealthy who buy politicians through lobbying and contributions is not good for everyone. I don't get your argument. What interests of the 1% are good for the 99%?
"I know an unfair tax structure where the wealthy pay less taxes as a percent of their income than everyone else is not good for everyone."
Stop lumping TWO DIFFERENT taxes-1) the capital gains tax rate in with the 2) income tax rates in order to make people think you are right. It's not accurate or honest. The wealthy pay FAR higher "income tax" rates than everyone else.
I'll post links to the tax brackets and divisions here for you:http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/27235.html
Okay, but don't the wealthy earn a good portion of their money through capital gains? Isn't that a "job" for many of them? Why should their earnings be taxed differently whether it is from a typical job where you go to a place of employment and work for an employer or where you sit at home and handle investments?
A certain percentage of the rich-something like .01% earns the vast majority of their money every year through capital gains. And yes, capital gains tax rates for the uber rich COULD and SHOULD be increased in my opinion. I'm all over that issue should OWS choose to go after it.
BUT, capital gains are earned by taking money you ALREADY earned AND PAID INCOME TAXES on (at a much higher rate than anyone else) and investing that money in a manner that earns you a profit OR selling an ASSET that you ALREADY owned (such as a fund, a piece of property, company shares etc that you purchased with money that had already been taxed as "income") for a profit. NO ONE should be taxed on the same money TWICE, -so the gov only taxes the "capital you gained" in the transaction-the "profit"-and not the money that you initially invested in that item/asset because they already taxed it as "income" once already.
I have NO problem with them paying a higher capital gains tax as long as capital gains taxes for those at much lower levels stay low. I DO have a problem with them being taxed TWICE at the exact same rate (of let's say 29%) on the money they earned from their "jobs" over the years simply because they chose at a later point to invest that same money in something. Why does that bother me? Because why on earth would ANYONE choose to "invest" in other people-in the poor, in colleges, in businesses, in ANYTHING that might benefit the poor AND them, it it's going to shoot them in the head again, with the same bullet?
The money these people have created their "wealth" with-HAS been taxed, and highly. Most of them accumulated it over the years from working a job, just like anyone else. They paid their "share" of it to society in the form of taxes as they earned it. If they inherited it, then their parents paid the "income taxes" on it when THEY earned it. And depending on how much of it there was, a great deal of it gets taxed AGAIN with "inheritance tax" before they ever got any of it. The gov LOVES to stick their fingers in the same pie as many times as they can.
So put yourself in their place.....if you worked hard your whole life, and created a great deal of wealth, and paid a hefty income tax on it along the way, WHILE also building hospitals, and creating charities, and doing an enormous amount of "giving" of your wealth to others because you aren't an entirely selfish, controlling, evil wench at all-how fair would it be to tax you again, at the same rate, that you or (your parents) ALREADY PAID on your money when it was "INCOME" to you simply because you used it to invest in someone else's success and gained some "interest" on your money in the process? How motivated would you be in investing it at all?
I thought I typed fast. LOL! I'm impressed! I am not an expert on capital gains but I totally agree that no money should be taxed twice. I'm talking about the earnings they earn on the money they invest. That is their "new" income so to speak and should be taxed just like the wages say a waitress or accountant earns from their job.
(You should hear me talk.....whew)
I agree that it should be higher. But if it's taxed TOO high, then they'll stop investing it here in the US and invest it somewhere else where it won't get taxed. Does that make sense? The capital gains tax is the government giving them an "incentive" to spend it here, rather than take it somewhere else, while still getting a chunk of it.
But the tax charts indicate that the collective tax rate paid by the .01% (meaning the rate they pay on their capital gains plus the rate they pay on their Average Gross Income together) is STILL 24.28%. The top 1% pays 24.01%, the top 10% 18.05% and on down the brackets. The top 50% pays 12.50% while the bottom 50% pays 1.85%.
Not to mention that of the entire tax collected each year by the US government- the top 50% pays 97.75% of that amount, while the bottom 50% pays 2.25%. The top 10% of wage earners in the US together pay 70.47% of the income tax collected while the remaining 90% pays only 29.53% of it.
THAT is why so many people are LIVID when the President or another politician screams that the "wealthy need to pay their fair share". To many of us, they already are. And if we hope to ever reach some of those higher tax brackets ourselves, we'd like to be able to keep as much of it as possible OUT of the governments hands. NOT because we don't want to share, but because Dems and Reps and Independents all believe that the government wastes at least HALF of every dollar they take in! http://www.gallup.com/poll/149543/americans-say-federal-gov-wastes-half-every-dollar.aspx
The American people, dollar for dollar, are MUCH more effective in spending their charitable dollars than the government is. They are the LAST people we should be trusting to take care of the poor when they can't even spend the money they ARE getting wisely.
The wealthy should pay a bigger percentage. In most cases they earned their money on the backs of the poor and middle class. I'm not a big believer in charity. I think it aggrandizes hubris. The person giving thinks they are superior and can control the resources and outcomes for others. I would much rather see people paid a living wage for their labor productivity so that they don't need charity and can control their own outcomes. And, I do believe in government. I trust government more than I trust private citizens who believe in all kinds of crazy stuff.
Why don't you ask the people who benefit from that charity what THEY think of it and stop acting like YOU have the ability to read the minds and hearts of everyone else and have determined that YOU are better than they are. Your posts are the very definition of hubris.
If you believe in and trust the government-according to every poll and survey I've ever seen-you just proven that you have no business saying you represent ANY percentage of Americans today.
Edited to ask- If being charitable demonstrates "hubris" and the idea that one is "superior" because they are trying to control the resources and outcomes for others.....and OWS is all about trying to control the resources and outcomes for everyone....then...walk with me.....wait for it....by your own definition, OWS is a movement filled with HUBRIS and SUPERIORITY.
Bravo. Fabulous logic! Way to prove that point. Yep!
I think the people who receive the charity would much rather not have to receive it. They would rather have a job that pays a living wage!
Stop speaking for other people. It's the ultimate form of hubris to assume that YOU know what anyone else thinks or wants.
Right. Only you can do that. You're on the OWS forum. Why don't you make your own forum?
Does the truth bother you that much? If you can't hack it from me, you're gonna HATE IT when you hit "the real world" and "real people" you don't understand and can't give the benefit of the doubt get to interact with you.
Brace yourself.
The average salary is actually $42,000.
Okay. $26,000 is the median wage.
From The Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-median-us-wage-in-2010-was-just-26363-government-reports/2011/10/20/gIQAdabX0L_blog.html
Ohh ok you meant median instead of average. That makes more sense.
No, you are referring to the "mean". The "median" is an average, and so is the "mean". Just to be accurate.....
Median is the halfway point between the highest wage and the lowest wage, mean is when you add x amount of salaries together and divide that sum by x. Here is a link with listings of average wages.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html
Please see my reply to your post of minutes ago that starts "Median is the midpoint...". As of right now, it is the second one down from this.
Median is the midpoint between the highest salary and the lowest. Mean is what you get when add x amount of salaries together divide that sum by x.
I know that. What I was saying is that they are both averages. You corrected him for calling 26K an average. It is - - the median is an average. I could not help pointing out that your correction was incorrect. Both median and mean are averages.
Yes, I am being picky and technical. Blame it on too many graduate courses in statistics. On on my being cranky tonight. Either is fine.
I still don't see your point. Median and Mean are completely different...
They are both averages. The word average covers both of them. The mean is one type of average. The median is another type of average.
When you said, "you meant median instead of average", you were wrong. The median is an average.
You think that mean is another word for average. It isn't, technically.
It's almost worse if you think about it. It means 1/2 of all Americans earn less than $26,000.
That's a fair point.
So, I guess right there, OWS has the interests of the 50% who earn less than $26,000 right?
Not necessarily. Because again within this income bracket there are going to varying interests and personal principles. But assuming that that bottom 50% all have congruent values and interests than they do.
I think within this income bracket and beyond OWS definitely represents the interests of the 99% even if you only look at the one issue of getting money out of politics. I think the 99% are sick and tired of the 1% controlling our government. May I ask you why you defend the 1%? Are you in the 1%? Just curious. I asked someone else today and they never answered. I enjoy the conversation and believe we have a lot to learn from one another.
Also I'm defending the 1% because I'm sick of people villainizing them.
I agree that they're not all bad. I just saw an article about how 6 members of the Walton family of Wal-Mart now have a net worth equal to that of 30% of the American population. That kind of thing bugs me.
I can see how that might be the case, it seems to me though that at least Sam Walton has a right to his money considering how much effort he put into Walmart.
I wonder how much tax they pay as a percent of their income?
I will look that up.
Nope, I'm just an average joe. I concede that OW is pointing out a fairly big problem I think they're just going the wrong way on representing it.
Okay. Fair enough. How should we go about it? I don't mean to answer me directly, but do keep posting your thoughts. It's important because the movement really does want to represent everyone in the 99%.
Here's a link to my blog.
http://utahdebater.blogspot.com/2011/12/occupy-wall-street-has-point-theyre.html
I'm actually doing some research and composing a post about my thoughts on that right now.
I think you may have (maybe not) quoted the "average household income" instead of the "average salary". A household with two workers earns more than a household with one person and thus the variance between your 42K and bw's 26K might be in comparing different situations.
OK, I checked my stats, I was correct in believing that 42k is the average salary.
Depends on which calculation you're using. Based on the chart/site BW linked to-they are saying that if you take all the money the workers in the US earned, and divided that by the number of workers-it would "average" out to be $42K .
BUT 66% of those workers ACTUALLY earn $26K or less and the other 34% are earning $42K OR MORE. A LOT more in order for the "average" to be as high as it is....because the income of the 33% is going to have to be a lot higher because it's working against the low amounts of the 66%.
Does that clarify the difference?
Good point, I'll check my facts on that.
Common mistake. As common as people like bw thinking that income tax rates and capital gains tax rates are the same thing and thus prove how little the "rich" pay in comparison to the "poor...er". Except that honest, critical thinkers like yourself are willing to accept that they might have made a mistake and do their own homework. I wonder if bw will respond the same way that you did? :-) Let's watch...
Haha I hope so.
She's being very receptive to information it appears no one has ever given her before. I admire that if anything.
Same. So far she's been the only Pro-OWS person on this site I've come across that will own up to facts against the movement and is willing to try and understand the other side.
Sorry. I spoke too soon. See a few posts above...She just got done telling me that she doesn't believe in charity, and that she believes in and trusts the government more than people like you and me who believe "crazy" things. She's also positive that she can read their minds and hearts because she just KNOWS they are only charitable because they are pompous and it aggrandizes them. WOW.
Someday when the 2 X 4 of "irony" shows up to smack her in the head, I hope she's learned enough to duck.
Can't say we didn't try.
You don't represent me man. Never. Since you believe you do, come to my house and bake me some pie.
I guess you're a millionaire.
OOOOOWHEEEEE! I didn't know that!
Please ignore the trolls!!
[-] TLydon007 5 points 20 hours ago
Please ignore the trolls!! ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
20 hrs ago ?
You're out of time !
OWs is not a political party and does not claim to represent any one, the slogan we are the 99% is obviously not a literal slogan, we do not have one political affiliation we are simply a forum for the peoples voices to be heard, usually your voice is drowned out by corporate money, especially now that the supreme court ruled that money = free speech. Feel free to voice your opinion, no one here claims to speak for you. wha tis it that you do not like about the way our country is run, and how would you change it. We are all ears. That is how this forum works, speak your mind, you will be surprised to learn we have much mor ein common than the divisive politicians would like us to believe. Are you for hege fund managers illegally making very risky bets with teachers pensions, neither am I. Do you like that the lobbiest with the most money is the one that gets policys pushed through. Neither do I
lets make it so if you are more wealthy than 70% of the population you CAN NOT hold office. That would slow down the control of money on our government.
Still, OW can't claim to represent the views of the 99 when they do not accurately rep them.
I think 99% of americans would agree that corporate money should not play a role in politics. And I have yet to hear anyone claim that they represent the 99%...That would be a ridiculous statement obviously. We are a place where the voice of the 99% can be heard, that is the message. we are sick of having our voices drownded out by corporate money. We do not have politicians that represent the people, they represent corporations now. and Now that we have ruled that corporations are people, they can give unlimited funds to politicians, I have yet to meet one person who thinks corporations should be allowed to give unlimited funding to politicians. so on a few basic topics like campaign finance reform I do find that 99% agree. Do you want an appology or something I don't know what you are looking for, I appologize if you felt that we said we represented you, sorry for the miscommunication we do not represent you we can only represent oursleves, this is why we continue to have no leader, so that all voices can be heard rather than one divisive voice, I seriously think the average american has a lot more in common with each other than the two party system would like us to believe. We are not trying to debate non-issues like abortion and gay rights, these hot buttojn issues didn't even enter into politics until the 70s when politicians learned they could divide the masses by making them chose on these minor issues. We are here to talk about how to get corporate money out of politics not to go over all the minute details of hot button issues. try contributing your own ideas you are obviously very passionate, I am sure you could contribute a lot.
I have at this point. This was my first posting.
Maybe OWS doesn't represent the 99%, but it represent the complaints that will be coming from the 99% as our government and Wall Street continue to steal the future of so many Americans. In this sense OWS does represent the 99%, but what grievances exactly do you think are not concerns of 99% of our country?
Then , according to your post The others that are not protesting; the 1% or the rest of the 99% who are not protesting against the 99% aren't being heard!
I would guess that you haven't checked out the rest of the world that is happening around you !
I / we don't want your money; just our fair piece of the pie !
Since we can't have a union thing , we have to put it to you this way ;
Without us , you don't exist !!
Why wouldn't I exist without you?
You probably wouldn't if you don't have a farm to go back to !
O.W.S. is the statement if you want to follow it !
I'm sorry... But that makes no sense to me.
Only the interested will look for the answers !
The answers to our struggles are out there , but, you must be willing to look for them !
Check out the O.W.S. forum !
No company can keep you in their employ if you have somewhere else to go such as your own farm !
That would = no one taking advantage of you such as the people who have lost their life savings due to the rules of the trading ,"(Wall Street ) system that has transpired !
but that could and should change. let them represent all people they will have to grow a bit to do that. But that kind of growth will be good for them.
Please ignore the truth!! :-)
Sure it does.
The government is the people , and the government doesn't know what it's doing !
Good point, do you wanna step in and try to do a better job?
How ? What do you mean ?
Just pointing out that it seems to me that many of you OWers believe that you could do a better job of running the government.
Start this thread as a post for legitimate votes , that can be presented to congress !
I know I could do a better job as a Representative, Senator or President, if I were actually allowed to do my job. I would have voted 'No' on the occupation of Iraq; I would have voted 'No' on the bank bailouts; I would be pursuing those financial institutions and individuals that caused the collapse of the World's economy. I would be pursuing criminal charges against President George W. Bush and several of those in his administration; I would shut the "job creator" believers up by promoting legislation that only gives these "job creators" monetary compensation for actual jobs that they create; I would listen to Bernie Sanders who predicted (as if it was difficult) that the Republicans and Obama were wrong to extend the Bush Era Tax cuts and that the Republicans would continue to fight for tax breaks for the wealthy; I would also support free speech in America, especially while pointing out how it is a right for people in Egypt, Syria and Libya.
[Removed]
O.K. ;
Lets start with the Senate , who passed a bill no one voted on and voids all our rights as per the constitution for a trial by jury and indefinite detention without trial ! Let's get a signature ballot going via our constitutional amendment allowing us to have a redress of grievances to our elected officials ( the congress) via the V amendment !
You start it and all else will sign it , and I will deliver it !
Let's see how many people will sign it !!
I dare you !
I will promise I will have a noose around my neck when I deliver it to the Senate !!!
Hmmm... That's strange, I researched your "bill" and couldn't find on that voids our right for a trial by jury. Such a bill would have required a constitutional amendment and that would have CERTAINLY hit national news.
Try this site !
http://rollingout.com/news-politics/politics/new-senate-bill-would-allow-military-to-detain-u-s-citizens-indefinitely-without-trial/
also ;
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/Senate_Bill_Allows_Indefinite_Imprisonment_of_Americans_without_Trial_111129
There are other sites for your info. also!
Ok, so this has not passed through Senate yet...
Senate ; yes ;
House of reps; no;
Presidential veto ; not until after the house vote.
You got it !
Who got it to the senate for a vote ?>
I want names !!!
This cancellation of our constitutional rights should never have been able to come to a vote !
Well even if this did pass they would still have to pass a Constitutional Amendment and I highly doubt that the Amendment would pass.
It wont pass;
My point is how can a vote to disregard our constitution even come to happen ?
I want the names of our senators who voted for this so we / i can get them out of their positions !
Well, at least the way I see it, is desperate times call for desperate measures. The Senate is feeling the heat of critics saying they're not doing anything and it seems to me that they feel like if they appear to be accomplishing something, anything, the critics will back off somewhat.
They're not doing what the constitution says!
Critics be warned !
Neither was Abraham Lincoln with the Emancipattion Proclamation.
Sounds like you're O.K. with martial law dictatorship !
What're you watching on the T.V. ?
Just pay no attention to the man behind the curtain !
Currently. Working on it. Need to rest.
@utahdebater: OWS represents me because I'm a college graduate and my best shot at life is to work at McDonalds. I have had a work before and that made me realize I didn't earn nearly enough to sustain a normal life so I went back to college. It has been 6 months since I graduated and I haven't had a single interview. The few of my friends that graduated with me and got a job are earning less than I did back then. I want a shot at a normal life. I want a shot at raising a family. And it's unfair that 1% never have to struggle this much while the 99% of us do.
Maybe you need to move to somewhere you can use your college degree to get a job. My daughter will graduate in April. She's worked two jobs to support herself WHILE she attended college on scholarships. She didn't have to. We welcomed her to live here at home and not have to worry about rent and food etc. She decided she wanted to be independent at 18. She pays her own rent, her own car payments, her own bills and has been on the dean's list at her college several times.
This while working two jobs, dating every boy in the state, and serving in Church callings AND being a "Big Sister" to a disadvantaged little girl.
Now I realize my daughter is not typical-because I have a daughter older than her who took a different path (no college) who is married and working to get her husband through college. They don't make much, but they do ok. Because they live in a place where their incomes fit their economy.
I also know literally hundreds of the kids they went to high school with who are married and starting families and putting roofs over their own heads and clothing on their own backs and food on their own tables. They aren't "rich" for the most part, and I'd say the majority of them aren't living in the manner they hope someday to become accustomed to. But they are living like their parents did-starting out "poor" but making the best of it. Advancing in skills and experience over time which leads to better and better jobs.
I don't know what makes you different. Could be any number of things. But what YOU describe as your experience does not represent more than perhaps 5% of the college graduates I've known in my life.
I'm glad that your daughter found 2 jobs to live 1 life. That she has to work 2 low end jobs to support her family while she studied. While that happened a 1%er sons gained their way through top notch colleges to gain enough money to live your daughter's life with 1 month's paycheck. Your daughter will probably neglect her kids at some point just to make dead ends. Mark my words. My mother didn't have a lot of time to supervise me and my dad divorced her when I was 3.
I had a job. I earned money. It simply wasn't enough to leave my mother's house. I went back to college for nothing. I still have to live with my mother and I can get a job, sure I can forget I got a Bachelor's and go back to my old work, but that will not be enough to sustain a normal independent life.
You should also meet more people. Talk to this outraged people on this forum and open your eyes and see. I studied a field in demand. I studied engineering and my only choice is to get by on unrelated jobs that don't move my professional career.
It's interesting that you have to make ASSumptions about my daughter in order to have premises for your arguments. Why?
My daughter does not have children. She doesn't plan to have any outside of a marriage. She could care less what some 1%er's kids are doing. It doesn't affect her ability to make her own way in the least. Neither one of her jobs has anything to do with her major. They don't have to. She makes maybe $15 an hour. And with that she pays her own rent, car, food, utilities gas, etc. She shares the rent on a 3 bedroom apartment with one of her female friends.
If your "old job" won't sustain independent life, get TWO jobs. You work those two jobs UNTIL you can get a job in your chosen field, or a higher paying one that isn't but pays what your two jobs were paying you. Or you sit at home and cry because you can't get the job you WANT. In my opinion, you need to open YOUR eyes.
You need to stop making foolish assumptions. Income inequality is at an all time high. I'm not sure you understand the words I'm expressing. You maybe went to college, maybe not but if you did, you wasted your time because you are only making foolish comments. Your daughter doesn't have kids but she will want them someday, just like me.
The answer isn't 2 jobs. 8 hours sleep, 8 hours at work, 8 hours to live. If you work 2 jobs you have less than 8 hours to live whatever life you want to live. What worth is a life in which you don't live? What worth is a life in which you live to work instead of working to live? You don't think your daughter deserves a full life? You think it's worth it that she's living on that low quality life? Is that what you want for your kids? I sure want something better. I studied fricking electrical engineering. I'm not a fool to work 2 15/hour jobs or 2 7.50/hour jobs Im not sure what you meant. I had a single job and I didn't even have the energy for anything else. I worked 8 hours from 8pm-4am and I came home to watch TV a few hours, get a shower and sleep to repeat the cycle.
Buddy, I will not reply to you anymore. You don't seem to be really smart. You are happy being a 99% and obviously you don't care that you could do so much better if the 99% was respected as they should , so I'll respect your position.
My girlfriend is Finnish. You should look a little information on how Finland handles their country and how they have less income inequality there. Finland is one of the greatest countries Imo but that's another thing. My point with this is you should learn about their social system and see that the US is doing terribly. Especially in education.
Now, on my last comment I will recommend a video. You may watch it or you may not. That's your decision and I'll bet you wont. It's a long video but you should watch it if you have even the minor concern about this movement.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/06/opinion/wilkinson-inequality-harm/index.html
Maybe then you could make a smart comment but even then I won't waste any time with you. I'm done talking to you since you don't even understand the things Im expressing.
You are using the poor example of your daughter. You think we don't want to work. And you think that because you got screwed up by 1%ers everyone should be. Anyway, live long and prosper. Best of luck to your daughter and hopefully she will be smarter than you and make a better life than you had.
That was a good comment until that last sentence...
False. Many of the 1% have had that struggle, and saw results.
If the shoe doesn't fit then don't wear it!
No one represents what the 99% majority is or what they want. The 99% are split on who they are and what they want. It isn't one single group.
You're right !!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://blog.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
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most people do actually, I would say 99 percent of America supports corporate reform and the separation between state and corporations. However, I don't think protesting is supported by 99 percent; however, you do what you gotta do. We have their attention; and it won't stop until things are better and the bailouts for corporations via tax dollars stop. And it's only going to get bigger. As Euro collapses and more US corporations start asking for tax funded bailouts to secure their executives bonuses, occupy is just going to grow. It's going to be representing 99.9 percent!!!!!! OF THE WORLD
That is right they do not represent the majority of Americans because the majority of Americans are fucking stupid and unaware of reality.
Oh really I'm stupid? You do not know me sir!
I may be stupid, but I am smart enough to know that your movement is nothing more that a flash in the pan party and 10 years from now, when you are flipping burgers and reciting the phrase "would you like fries with that" you will still be blaming others for the mess YOU made of YOUR life.
And only you and those like you are smart enough to know the "truth" of it all? The arrogance oozing from the OWS crowd serves only to drive regular people away.
The Revolution has a new song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P89PlNkk0eY&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
OCD
So, the whole movement is just some dumb OCD thing. So every movement is just some dumb OCD thing. Let's just let Toshiba keep on hurting people. I bet if Toshiba screwed you over and I could help you, you wouldn't call it OCD.
No, it is your single minded pursuit of Toshiba that is an OCD thing.
No, I have also gone after these animals:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/enterprise-rent-a-car-murders-children/
Besides, why is OWS at wallstreet, if you attack all the average joes who put their money into wallstreet, wallstreet would go broke. The Revolution starts here!
That is because the majority of the 99% are ignorant and brainwashed into thinking everything is okay. Hopefully, they will be enlightened before it is to late and the economy goes down the drain.
Agreeing with the OP without a factual basis is self--defeating.
20% unemployment. 1 in six in poverty. 1 in 5 without health care. foreclosures running 3 million a year. Declining incomes across the country. State and municipal budget shortfalls and bankruptcies looming.
You are assuming the majority do not support the 99%. I think that is an erroneous assumption.
The majority IS the 99%. OW is not the majority, there are many differing degrees within the 99%. OW is a very small minority of that.
Of course! Only you and those like you are smart enough to know what's best for everyone else. How could the rest of us all have been so blind?
It has nothing to do with what is best for everyone. Our economy as well as others are collapsing ...
People know this, but you said the majority of the "99%" are ignorant and brainwashed while having no facts to support such a claim of superiority. It is obvious that the economy is in the crapper, regardless of media reports of a "recovering" economy. People are rightly scared and want to work for a better tomorrow, but sitting around camps being angry and insulting people isn't helping.
Go on and read the comments from "people" on the Facebook pages of Rick Perry and Obama and then tell me people know the current state. Lots are still living as it was or in la la land.
Postings on social websites is not a good way to judge the overall intelligence of the public. If so, then OWS really is just an anarchist and communist movement based on many of the postings here.
Okay, I will consider that ..., but I truly not talking about the intelligence of the public. I was talking about the brainwashing of the main stream media which keeps the general public ignorant of all the is going on. Thanks for posting.
I agree, the media is a huge problem in the US. Infotainment has replaced information, but luckily we have the internet to get to the real news in this world of ours.
Oops, I missed a couple of words in my last post, but I guess you got my point. Now if we can just get everyone to search the Internet for the real news.
That's a good point - I'm trying to educate myself via the Interwebbie, but am suspicious of most sites' veracity (including this one - true!!!). For instance, I really question Adbusters' motives (re: Robyn Hood Tax).
Anyway, can AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE please tell me what news websites, blogs, etc are trustworthy. If everyone does this, then I can 'survey' the results in to something meaningful.
Thank-you for reading this.
I am ready to go to bed, but Truthdig.com, DemorcracyNow.com, theeconomiccollapseblog.com come to mind. There are many others and I hope other people respond. I would like to see your compiled list when done.
Thanks - I'll check these out. More importantly, maybe I'll re-post this discussion elsewhere in an effort to further this research of mine.
And sleeping the park, taking over abandoned houses and shutting down shipping ports..... prevents or stops or even slows that down.....HOW?
No. Get this FACT through your head. The 99% are, for the most part, awake and aware that something is terribly wrong in America. Check any poll asking whether the US is headed in the right direction or the wrong one. Go ahead. Check. The MAJORITY knows things are bad.
BUT-the fact that they know things are bad does NOT equate with them HAVING to join OWS or even support OWS or give a damn about OWS. Many of them belong to groups that have been ACTIVELY WORKING on solutions for YEARS. You wouldn't know about them because you've been brainwashed into thinking that good, honest, motivated people can ONLY accomplish something if they sleep in a park or yell at people on the street while waving signs and smoking pot!
People who MOVE things...people who CHANGE things-don't have the time, and wouldn't waste the resources if they did, to stand outside and act like idiots. Besides, they know it irritates the hell out of every other sane, moral, hard working person who is looking for SOLUTIONS-not cheap, progressive fear mongering.
That's like me saying people who run their race slow only do so because they have been told that they can't run faster because of their size or weight. Granted thats not an excellent analogy but you should get what I'm saying.
How do you know? Do you have Divine Wisdom? As for myself, I have only human wisdom and do the best I can.
Actually about .1% of the 99%.
How do you really know this? They refuse to go after Dimon, or Corzine. These are the biggest of the biggest.
Goldman-Sachs bigfish represent 0.00001% of the USA wealth, but these guys control 90% of the wealth and OWS refuses to name the names and go after the big fish.
My only conclusion is the intent is to rob the weak at a later date by redefining the 1%. As today we know the names, we know who the crooks are but OWS refuses to unleash the attack dogs on the assholes that are robbing us as I type on my keyboard.
Of course the rhetoric answer of why they don't go after Corzine & Dimon is of course these guys paid for Obama's election. That OWS is a front to re-elect Obama 2012. But pay no attention to the man behind the curtain pulling the strings, and puppets.
The KTC does.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!