Forum Post: Only 1800 watching online...losing momentum
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 13, 2011, 2:26 a.m. EST by CounteringLies
(15)
from Belle Glade, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Is there a feeling that the OWS movement maybe losing momentum? Not as many watching online in the various occupy streams.
Anyone agree with me on this?
OK finally got a reasonable answer (unlike the stupidity from that moron Richard Gates). They are saying that it's raining in NY so no live feed, plus they are reconfiguring things to have the capability to go from one live feed to the next on October 15th. OK I feel better...they are looping recorded casts.
I think that although some voices are screaming for inclusion and for people to put aside their ideologies... the movement is still concentrating on a Leftist platform and pushing away conservatives. I've tried convincing people to join up, but they feel that OCS is already hopelessly leaning to the Left. :(
I have just got to know, what do you feel that conservatives can bring to the table here on this site? And conservative regarding what exactly?
I have one question as a conservative, how is this not your movement? You are conservative in what exactly? Do you mean religious or in government spending and actions? This movement is all about cutting the government welfare to corporations and foreign powers.That is a lot of conservatism. Actually in the tens of trillions per year. If you're speaking of religion, we are not going the way of the TeaBaggers and getting hijacked by powerful corporate special interests who then confuse ideas with anti-abortion rhetoric and a family values facade. There is another forum for those issues, but it is not here. This movement is strictly about government/corporate sick communist hybridism and all of the public ripping off that has occurred over the last 60 years. The power of the legislative purse and law making must be returned to the people. We must become the virtual Congress.
Gina, I agree with you, but a large number of people posting on videos, news articles, and here seem to think this is about overturning capitalism, capping wages, instituting national healthcare, forgiving student loans and mortgages and other things. Goals that at least 50% of the country would be opposed to.
I've tried persuading people to not push their personal agendas at this stage and just concentrate on things that every American would support... but I feel that not enough people are saying this. Instead, it feels like we are being drowned out.
The conservative media is painting everyone here as socialists. We need to get a lot of people here stating in clear terms that they will not try and push a liberal agenda onto America... that this is about reform and not ideology.
Sorry I took so long to answer. I agree with you completely. There are a few true socialists hanging around who do publish ideas that you mentioned. But again, true capitalism, true socialism and true communism only exist on paper. They have never been accomplished anywhere on the planet and probably never will be. Thank God for that. Most nations in the world have chosen hybridized systems for the pragmatic reasons that they are the only systems that really work, relative to human nature, which you can not legislate. Again, thank God for that. I certainly do not want to be legislating the cap on people's wages although I will say that there are definite minimums required on labor and that we are no where near to paying people what they should be paid. The minimum wage needs to be doubled or tripled. Student loans don't need to be forgiven, they need to be taken out of private bankster hands, shipped back to government hands where they originated, and re-rated at 0-1% on manageable terms in numbers of years to pay back the system. Corporations and other profit seeking entities should have nothing to do with control over people's ability to get an education, health care or how to pay for it. I am not so worried about the right wing Republican agenda slinging the words ''socialism'' or ''communism'' because that is what we already have and it is a large measure of the problem that we have today but the more extreme form of it, called the fascist state.
I wish all conservatives were as reasonable as you.
I am actually conservative on very few issues. Those have to do with money and most importantly, not wasting it on paying billions to foreign governments and corporations we view as friends and worst yet, paying enemies and trying to buy them as allies. There is NOT a government or corporation, foreign or a domestic, anywhere on the planet, that is more important than the health and welfare of people of the United States and other countries. So on the issue of blowing money all over the place, I'm definitely conservative. As far as liberalism is concerned, I'm liberal on only a few things too. Mainly, in that you can not and should not try to legislate human behavior. So a theoretical text book definition of a socialist utopia where everyone earns the same amount of pay for work doesn't work pragmatically because it precludes the individualism and entrepreneur spirit. I support all forms of individual creativity in business, innovation and art,etc. I really don't give a shit about high and mighty notions and theories in economics and politics when human beings themselves do not ever fit into all or nothing molds. We haven't passed a law yet that mandates that all dogs walk and talk alike because it pragmatically wouldn't work. Their very nature dictates that their behaviors are all different. So why would anyone think that we should legislate all human behavior in that we must all work the same amount of hours for the same pay? What if some of us have genius ideas that can benefit society? Should we discourage "out of the box" thinking? Has that ever been proven to be good for mankind? Only on paper in a book somewhere. Not in actuality. And no more than run away unfettered capitalism has ever been proven to be beneficial to society. This ridiculous theory is actually part of what is wrong with this country today. Corporate greed in all its forms became the law of the land, surpassing the rights of individuals. There are reasons extreme theoretical forms of government do not last long on earth, because they are theory only and preclude the natural human condition and behavior. Communism never existed either. There was no way to legislate human behavior to a degree that there were no black markets or the selling of something on the side for extra cash(capitalistic tendencies natural to human behavior). China and the Soviet Union proved that the theory was just a theory. Neither country ever achieved equality among people in rights or pay. Actually they had a thriving, wealthy black market capitalism and a wealthy aristocratic social elite oligarchy that enjoyed privileges that common people did not have. Very similar to the sick corporate communist government hybrid which we have today, only under the facade of a different theory, which also doesn't work in its pure form.
Balanced thinking. A rare commodity today. Well stated.
Who cares what FOX and the rest of the hard-core fascist media want? If your goal is to please that crowd your at the wrong place.
I'm not so sure a "leftist" platform will turn off people given that, from the perspective of today's conservative, Eisenhower would probably be considered a leftists lol. Given his support of high marginal tax rate, etc.
I'm sure. I'm telling you, right here and now, that average people I talk to in my community are turning against the movement. They are buying into the Fox News stories because while left-wing politicians and organizations have embraced it, prominent conservatives haven't.
They have videos and statements from people in the OCS who are pushing a socialist agenda without videos from conservatives.
If the OWS wants to succeed, they need to start courting conservatives and take a neutral platform on things.
Right now the movement has more popularity than both Congress and the Tea Party. So your assertion is not reflected yet in polling data. Not saying what you are saying could turn out to be right. I think conservativism is compromised by it's minimizing the role of corporations in undermining democracy and the economy. Especially finance. So I don't want this movement turning in that direction
Conservatives in this country know and understand that BigBusiness has usurped our government. They just don't have a problem with capitalism in general, just when it intrudes into the state.
If you aren't willing to abandon your ideology to compromise with other views... you are part of the problem. We need to focus on things that both sides agree on and demand those things be changed. The things you're unwilling to compromise or agree on? Yeah, they won't fly. All focusing on those things does is push people away and weaken the movement.
The problem is that once capital has accumulated so much wealth/resources, it's difficult for them to just go along there merry way and not TRY influence the government. And respect free markets. But more ominous, Big Finance can influence government by this "too big to fail" Domocles-esque sword over the population. If you don't bail us out and cater YOUR government policies the way WE like, we'll restrict credit and implode the economy. Threat like this have been made whenever talk of prosecuting Wall street criminals comes up (oh you'll kill market confidence and sent markets roiling, etc)
The only reason corporations get "too big to fail" is that they grow big and fat from protectionist legislation.
The next time a company tries that excuse, it means that the government steps in, fires the board and CEO... then divies up the company while encouraging small start-ups to come in and fill in the void in the market.
Goldman Sachs and others got big not from protection, but throught market power, things like Dark Pools and computerized trading. Also, if you read William Cohan books on Gsachs, they were engaged in so called IPO Laddering. and of course front running. Nothing to do with "protectionism" but lack of government oversight and the use of market power.
Totally agree with your second paragraph.
I would LOVE to see markets and banks compete because that would give us more favorable loan terms, etc. But first, we need to break them up and separate prop trading from conventional intermediation
That would be a wondrous thing to see, and I think that you, I, and the OWS movement can all agree on that, but what I want to know is this: From where does the government get the authority to simply walk into a boardroom and fire the occupants? For that to happen the government would have to be fairly strong and there would have to be fairly robust regulations in place to justify the breakup; otherwise such a move is logically equivalent to the action of a police state.
If you shrink the government down and demand that it get out of the private sector, then who will put their foot down when multinationals try the "too big to fail" schtick? The American people would if they could, but seeing as they don't elect corporate heads and they do not have police power, they cannot. Other corporations? Forget it; there is no real difference between a cartel oligopoly and a monopoly, and thus corporations do better if they back each other on shit like that.
The only one capable of stepping in and dealing with the "too big to fail" crap is Uncle Sam, and he's not much good at that if he's defunded and disempowered.
Great point. You see, I think we can reach across to conservatives with these arguments. This is rooted in Jefferson's critique of banking institutions. He didn't trust and neither should we. Nothing more American and apple pie than Jefferson! And I liked how you showed that weak government is actually contradictory to another supposed conservative goal...law and order. Imagine if someone were to say "the way we control criminality is by having fewer cops, fewer courts." lol Well that's kind of their argument when it comes to banks as well.
Really? How much power/size does the government need in such a situation? When corporation says, "save us, save us!". All the government needs to do is say, "no". Then have police walk in and close down the administrative offices while the workers continue to work.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want the government to intrude on business a lot of the time. but if a busines goes to the government for welfare, then the situation is a whole lot different.
Government needs more resources though...maybe not a question, but matter of resources to police. The SEC, the OCC, and other agencies were easily overwhelmed by multi hundred billion balance sheet and highly complex financial instruments....
I'm fine with that. In fact I agree with most of what you're saying; government has a say, a controlling stake in fact, in any business that comes to them for welfare. Consider this: what are tax breaks and special subsidies but corporate welfare? Of course you're against the bailout because that one was such a blindingly obvious example of handouts that you simply can't ignore it. What I want to know is why corporations can't shut up and pay their taxes like everyone else does? No special breaks, no handouts, no more loopholes.
"NO" is highly unlikely. No government with the degree of global interconnectedness is willing to preside over an economic crash WORSE than the great depression. Imagine tens of millions more unemployed. Easy to say that typing from a keyboard. Real Politik, different story
Your pt.? The right has everything going for it in this country right now. Why do u want this movement as well?
I was on the other day where several people were kicked off by moderators for the wrong reasons. One of them was kicked off for agreeing with Obama for something. There are also so many troll Republicans and TeaBaggers on this site that it is not worth being on. Many of us went to other sites.
yep. the flash notoriety wore off, and lacking organization, mostof the 99 percent are backing away from what amounts to an anarchist temper tantrum.
until real organization happens, the core people will have to carry this, and it will fail unless it grows up and pulls its head out of its ass. soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
They also are between FaceCase, Twitter and the other Occupy sites nationwide. All the other sites are booming. Twitter keeps crashing because of overload (yesterday and a few days before that)
something big needs to happen...simply sitting around meditating and marching a few miles every weekend is no longer enough...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/march-to-washington-hit-them-where-it-hurts/
Some decline is probably inevitable. We who are the core supporters must retain our resolve. I promise that I will because I am convinced that this is the most important event of our lifetimes (at least most of us anyway).
OCCUPY LOGO worldwide. Print it out or easy to draw. But a single symbol we can all stand behind as the movement goes international.
http://occupylogo.blogspot.com/
you mean right now at 2am?
Usually there are still 2500 to 3,000....been following everynight...
I suppose one night is not a trend. And what thebeast said ↓
aaaand it's not 2am everywhere
At first there was only one stream, now there are many, couldn't that have something to do with it?
Good point, but surely we didn't have a huge increase from last to tonight. One night doesn't make a trend I know, but wonder if there are any other indicators/markers of declining interest.
Football Season
how would you know. you do not have access to visitor stats to any of the sites. i smell sh!T
um LiveStream shows the number of watchers right on the video window
not even one of the sites i was counting. my point, you're not getting enough data from a few snippets to make an accurate count and you know it. why would someone continue to try and make an argument without being able to provide the data requested to back it up? to keep the post at the top, you're an ass.
The OP was referring to LiveStream so your comments to him are irrelevant
Just going by number of people "online" as indicated on screen. Just noticed a drop. Maybe things will get reinvigorated with the national 15th. Things were really surging night to night and it caught my attention.
show me the links to those sites with visitor stats. including this one.
Global revolution...if you are following this closely, you know the "stream" I'm talking about. Don't want to post link to be seen as advertising.
i call bs dude. you got no data
Are you intellectually deficient? The data is RIGHT THERE. Only 1800 at this time when we had over 2500 easily pernight approaching 3,000 at this time. I have been WATCHING every night rolls eyes
thats one site, are you "intellectually deficient"? there are at the minimum 4 sites for this protest