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Forum Post: Lancaster, NH Event in Late June

Posted 12 years ago on May 22, 2012, 8:56 p.m. EST by lkindr (58)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

  • The Free State Project in New Hampshire has been having a "Porcupine Festival", or Porc Fest, every year for several years now at Roger's Campground near Lancaster, NH in late June. I believe the dates for this year's event are June 18 to 24. The main activities occur on Saturday, I think. If you come for just one day, then you won't have to get a room or campsite to stay overnight. Admission is about $25. http://happyporcupine.info/ http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=60.0
  • I encourage Occupiers to attend and get good ideas from it. It would be nice if Occupiers had a similar yearly or quarterly event in several locations, like NYC, LA etc.
  • You can even come and protest, if you like. There are likely to be quite a few anarchists there, as usual, and there's usually a booth on the campground for agorist events. Agorist means anarchist, I think. It's mainly a libertarian event, but the definition of libertarian is very loose and includes a lot of progressives etc.
  • I expect to be there and there may be discussion of Win-Win, a much better alternative to "might makes right" majority rule.
  • We can discuss such things at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O6Fdmy-Cz9cfkaUBLx8cHezJP956ykwdBDFXttddd3w/edit if you say what day and time you can discuss there, or you can leave a message.

21 Comments

21 Comments


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[-] 2 points by penguento (362) 12 years ago

I doubt you'll get a whole lot of response here. Leaving aside OWS's purported philosophy of avoiding getting into the nuts and bolts of politics (which I suspect may be nothing more than cover for an inability to get organized and reach out to others), most of the folks around here don't seem to have much of a coherent political philosophy beyond formulaic denunciations of the mythic "1%" and "greedy banks" and the rest of their cast of villains; much less a concrete plan of action such as yours, or the knowledge of the political system, economics or other things requisite in putting such a plan into action. And frankly, a lot of folks around here would regard what you're doing as bad, and you as one of the villains for trying to work effectively within the system.

I wish you well, however. Getting together a critical mass of people in some small jurisdiction is a good idea, and probably one of few realistic options for getting some sort of real movement off the ground. A friend of mine -- a real old-school hippie leftist -- got himself elected county commissioner in a rural county out west a few years back, and had a very successful run. And he learned a lot in the process. In order to get anything done, he had to form coalitions and working groups with conservative republicans and others on the commission; and it all turned out really well. Turns out that nobody was the devil, nobody was insane, and when people of good will got together to try to solve real problems, they could do so, notwithstanding very different backgrounds and outlooks.

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

I'll fax Brown my John Hancock on making elections holidays

mind that's gonna cost time and $2 dollars

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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago
  • Thanks a lot for the encouragement and information.
  • Is there any realistic option, besides working "within" the system? Do most Occupiers intend to occupy prison cells for the rest of their lives? I think that would still be within the system. My intention is to help take the system back to work for the people, instead of letting it get entirely taken over by the ruling class.
  • Towns and small counties seem to be the only options for successful Occupying.
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[-] 1 points by penguento (362) 12 years ago

I think most OWS folks have no clue whatsoever about what to do about anything. It's pretty easy to spout bullshit about the greedy 1% and evil banks and whatever, but not so easy to actually get anything done, like for example organizing a meaningful voting bloc or formulating some realistic, workable policy position on an issue. Everybody either sticks with the bullshit or propounds some vague vision of a future world where everything is owned communally and there's no money and no poor people or rich people; and completely ignores all the messy little details that go into getting from here to there. And frankly, I think they have no idea how to tackle all those details and neither the interest or energy to try. Navigate around this site for a while and you'll get the picture.

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[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

this is startrek's fault

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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago
  • Yeah, I think I get the picture. But maybe there's a one percent of the 99% who think like me and a few others.
  • I can believe Star Trek is to blame too.
  • I've always kind of favored living communally myself too with no money and prosperity for all. Maybe Occupiers should check out intentional communities at http://ic.org.
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[-] 2 points by GregOrr (113) 12 years ago

Hello lkindr -

Please check out http://the99percentvotes.com

I recently launched this site for people to propose, discuss, and vote on public policy ideas. I hope to converge on and popularize policy goals, get media attention for them, and get candidates to adopt them.

I think it can make a big difference if it catches on. I hope you'll use the site and help spread the word. Let me know if you have any comments or questions.

Thanks, Greg

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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago

This does seem to be a better than usual forum setup. Thanks for the link. I'm checking it out now. I haven't learned how to spread the word very well yet, and I'm not clear yet on what word to spread, but I'll stick around for at least a spell and see if I can collaborate somehow for good causes.

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[-] 2 points by GregOrr (113) 12 years ago

Thanks. Just to clarify, vote by clicking on the labels by the graph.

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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago

Greg, I think your site there should have some way to help like-minded folks there collaborate. I've been using Google Documents to have discussions with small numbers of people. I use it like a chatroom, that's much less restricted than most chatrooms. Something like that would be helpful, I think.

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[-] 3 points by GregOrr (113) 12 years ago

You can put suggestions for the site on http://dev.the99percentvotes.com

I will keep private collaboration methods in mind -- have other things in queue at the moment, but I agree this would be valuable.

There is the inbox currently, through which you could privately coordinate discussion referencing a google doc.

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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago

Rather Argue or Collaborate?

  • My original post is below this. I had suggested there that the way we can most likely change the system and end the greed game is by local activism, running our own people for public office at the town and county level first and later at higher levels as well. This does not conflict with realistic anarchist ideas. The idea is to make local govt non-abusive first, then do the same statewide and nationwide. And using consensus, or win-win, decision making is the how-to that seems most workable to me.
  • It looks like some Occupy supporters are interested in collaboration for effective activism, so I suggest that anyone who's either curious or interested in collaborating join me and a few others on a Google Document to discuss ideas and learn from each other.
  • I just set one up at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O6Fdmy-Cz9cfkaUBLx8cHezJP956ykwdBDFXttddd3w/edit so anyone can write there just to practice using that Document. But I'd like to have a live discussion with people there soon, so when would anyone like to try it with me or anyone else? I can try it at 11 AM Eastern time tomorrow, Saturday. You can post there without having to register or sign in first.
  • The topic I suggest is how to make Occupy or anyone effective at ending the greed game and replacing it with responsible non-abusive self-government.
  • I can already imagine that it might be much more effective for Occupiers to have dialog with the common people on the streets, instead of shouting and looking like mere protestors. We/they could ask people what their main concerns are and seek solutions that satisfy those as well as any opposing concerns. Win-Win can do that, i.e. it can satisfy opposing concerns, contrary to "conventional wisdom".
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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago

Rather Argue or Collaborate?

  • [This was my initial post, but it looks like I can change it, so I'm relegating the original to here for now.]
  • (I had said:) If no one replies to this, I'll be inclined to think that online Occupiers are more interested in arguing, including putting each other down, than in working together. (Some have replied now, but I suppose most online Occupiers may still prefer arguing to collaborating.)
  • First Local Activism - The Rules say "We do not support an election campaign for 2012." I'm not promoting any particular election campaign, so I hope this is okay.
  • I guess most everyone is fairly agreed on wanting to get big money interests out of control of the govt, but, since they do control the federal govt and much of the state govts and the major media and the education system, it seems that the best option is to Occupy Local Politics, i.e. collaborate on supporting our own people for local offices. The idea would be that, once local politics is in the hands of responsible people, we can then better influence state politics, then national politics too. We need to think long-term, instead of just short-term, i.e. short-term the way we were miseducated to do. Right?
  • I moved from Illinois to New Hampshire to join the Free State Project here, which is just an effort to get 20,000 freedom-loving people to move to the state and be politically active here. (I'm sort of a "left-libertarian", though I don't really think labels are very meaningful.) Occupiers are certainly welcome. But, again, I'm not supporting any particular candidates here. Anyway, some "Free Staters" are also doing Free Town Projects as well, although they're not usually calling it that. And I think it's also worth doing Free County Projects.
  • But you don't really have to move to NH to do this. You can do it anywhere in the U.S. locally and sometimes even at the state level. NH is doing well at getting people elected to state offices, but I don't think those elected have really accomplished much yet there.
  • If any Occupiers are doing anything like this, running for local or state offices, I'd like to hear about it, but I haven't heard of that so far.
  • Representative govt is supposed to represent the interests of all of the people, not just the major campaign financial contributors, so I recommend that Occupiers use win-win, or consensus, decision making, including when they get elected to office. I read that Occupiers in Spain or somewhere in Europe are doing that. Win-Win would also be popular among a lot of voters, who believe in fairness and justice for all. And when they support a Win-Win candidate, they should realize that it means they, the voters, will always win, if that candidate wins election, no matter what supposed party they're with. In NH, the FSP candidates call themselves whichever major party is locally most popular, which is a very sensible policy. (Free Staters are antiwar and socially liberal, FYI.)
  • * As for Online Activism, I'd like to find a venue online that's effective for that. Forums leave a lot to be desired, because people get into pointless arguments and aren't able to collaborate very well together there. I've been using Google Documents for collaboration with a few people, which works better than chatrooms or forums, though I set up Google Document meetings via forums etc.
  • I think several people with interest in online activism could meet once a week like that, I mean on a Google Document, and make good plans for Occupying Local Politics. One idea I have for strategy is to get folks to move to a nearby small county or town and run one or more of their group for local office. The states with the most small counties are South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado and Texas. But all states have quite a few small towns.
  • In planning Free Towns and Counties, I think it's worth planning for economic crisis, including hyperinflation. So I'd like to work with Occupy sympathizers to plan to organize towns and counties that will be "Sustainable", by planning for all major occupations that are needed, including Alternative health care (instead of insurance and drug company controlled health abuse), home schooling, infrastructure, trade, research, entertainment etc.
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[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 12 years ago

Great post. This is what this forum if for. Thanks.

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[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 12 years ago

I have been going to NYC once a week since late October to take part in demonstrations, protest marches, and helping out the one of OWS's affinity groups, Occupy Town Square. I cannot remember the last time I heard anyone promoting canidates, or parties. Instead they are collaborating on a a whole host of issues, with the goal of reaching out to the timid, and/or the unknowing as to what OWS is about. That is a good sign of their health as far as I am concerned.

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[-] 1 points by ChrisLightfoot (12) from Fort Myers, FL 12 years ago

http://coalitionforsocialchange.wordpress.com/

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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago
  • Chris, do you have a coalition yet? If so, where does it meet? I don't agree with all of your ideas, but I'm willing to collaborate online.
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[-] 1 points by ChrisLightfoot (12) from Fort Myers, FL 12 years ago

no i do not but i am actually looking for more people email me at chrislighty25@gmail.com

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[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 12 years ago

On this point:

"If any Occupiers are doing anything like this, running for local or state offices, I'd like to hear about it, but I haven't heard of that so far."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/02/1088316/-I-am-Running-for-California-State-Senate

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/12/running-occupy-candidate-not-smart-politics/46777/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/01/the-first-occupy-candidate-nate-kleinman-112057.html

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/04/meet_the_occupy_candidates/singleton/

There was another article that listed 10 or so people that had entered various Congressional races as Occupy candidates. I don't know which, if any, made it past their primaries.

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[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 12 years ago
  • Okay, so a few Occupiers are trying for state offices, but mostly failing so far, it seems. I ran for state Senate in Illinois in 2001, just to see what it's like, so I could tell others how to do it. It didn't cost any money, except to make signs. But I didn't get enough signatures to get listed on the primary ballot. So it helps to have friends to help with that. I guess Occupiers wouldn't want to do that, for the most part.
  • Anyway, local towns and counties should give us the best chances. Also, we have to collaborate and organize. Otherwise, the movement is just decoration.
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[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 12 years ago

I don't think the majority of Occupy patrons want to be political. These people are in the minority.

I'd like to see more work done to get Occupy sympathetic people in office for 2014, as third party or non-partisan candidates of course. The 2012 elections are coming up too soon to start a real awareness campaign about these candidates.

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