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Forum Post: One Singular Goal!

Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 3, 2011, 9:24 p.m. EST by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

All of the successful protest movements of the 20th century in the U.S. had a very clear and concise goal. The civil rights movement had integration. The counter culture movement of the 60's wanted to end the Vietnam War. The Women's Suffrage movement wanted women to vote. The Anti-Saloon league wanted prohibition of alcohol.

Wayne Wheeler of the Anti-Saloon league, was known for insisting on a very clear and singular goal to the exclusion of all else, a constitutional amendment prohibiting the sale of alcohol. His model for political influence through demonstration has been replicated over, and again. The prohibition movement might have been misguided, but no one could argue that it wasn't successful.

Could it be, that it is time for OWS to focus? I believe many more people would become active, if a singular goal could be devised.

136 Comments

136 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I think the goal should be "Buy Back the Vote." Take our political system back from big $$

[-] 3 points by Mooks (1985) 13 years ago

I agree. There really are not a lot of things that 99% of America will actually support. This, I believe, is one of the only things.

[-] 2 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I think so, as well. I think many would agree that there is too much big $$ in politics. Americans don't seem to agree on much else.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 13 years ago

Exactly. OWS either needs to go with something like this or drop the whole 99% thing. I am sure the amount of people who supported shutting down the Port of Oakland is a lot less than 99%.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Absolutely. I suppose the logic is that the mix of individual issues that fill the void of not having a clear message does represent 99%. To me though, it seems that focus will have to be achieved, in order to make further progress in winning the propaganda war.

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 13 years ago

If you want to get billions of dollars out of the political system, stop sending trillions of dollars to Washington.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

One thing at a time, Kirk.

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 13 years ago

My point is that money will always follow money. Corporations would be crazy not to have an army of lobbyists in Washington -- that's where the money is.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Exactly. I do believe that a government is necessary, though. I think if we can clean up the monied influence, it would be a good start to solving a lot of other problems.

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 13 years ago

Agreed. If we can end corporate welfare, establish a loophole-free tax system, and cut federal spending, I think people would be surprised how much less corporate influence there would be in Washington. Corporations wouldn't waste money on politics because politics would be largely irrelevant to them.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

No doubt.

[-] 1 points by UPonLocal (309) 13 years ago

to do that you need a direct democracy voting system, like what is built up here

http://uponlocal.com/up-on-local-media/Direct-Democracy-Office-Election-List

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 13 years ago

Hey,

Please pass this on if you agree. We are working on setting a date.

Force Change, Boycott Capitalism

until we have full government resignation and a new online voting system with verification so we can rebuild our country and eventually our world.

We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.

When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.

Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.

Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.

How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.

Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.

In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.

They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.

Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.

Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.

Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??

Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.

We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.

Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.

Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change

http://wesower.org

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I'm not proposing a political system. I'm simply saying that a focused platform could be helpful.

[-] 1 points by UPonLocal (309) 13 years ago

but, how will you develop in, with a mass of people...without some software....that is all the site offers....it is not a political party...it is just a facilitation device

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Sorry, that is not my field. I will leave that to you technically minded people.

[-] 1 points by UPonLocal (309) 13 years ago

check the site layout now

www.uponlocal.com

[-] 1 points by HeavySigh (227) 13 years ago

"Buy back the vote" is not a goal. It's a catchphrase at best.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

It is a sound bite. Like most sound bites, it only serves as a metaphor for a core issue. That issue being Campaign Finance Reform!

[-] 1 points by HeavySigh (227) 13 years ago

Again, lack of a goal for the movement.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

No. You missed it. I think the goal should be: (wait for it)

CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!

[-] 1 points by HeavySigh (227) 13 years ago

You OWS guys cannot be this stupid. You missed it. What does that even mean? When someone says "stop the war", it means stop the war. What does campaign finance reform entail? You can't run around shouting at corruption without saying we are against X problem, we want Y to fix it and to do it in Z way.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

You asked for a goal, not a piece of legislation. Hell, half of John McCain's political career was spent on Campaign Finance Reform.

[-] 1 points by HeavySigh (227) 13 years ago

Again sidestepping the issue. Who gives a crap about John McCain? Saying you find THIS wrong and want THIS to change is not legislation. It's not a hard question.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

So you are asking what the details of campaign finance reform could be? I'm not sidestepping the issue. My issue of choice is simply campaign finance reform. I believe that we need to remove undue influence on our political system by big$$. I don't understand why that seems so vague. I am proposing an issue, or a goal. The fine points of how that would be implemented are whole different discussion.

[-] 1 points by HeavySigh (227) 13 years ago

It's like talking to a child. Listen to me! If you're outside my office chanting and sleeping in tents and all you bring to the table is "campaign finance reform", then you're gone. Especially when you get violent and break stuff. Now if you come to the table with a specific example of wrong doing, specific things you want changed, and some leaders to push it, then we will talk. Is it that hard?

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Here is one example. Nancy Pelosi gets 89% of her campaign funding from outside of her district. I believe that puts her in a position where she is beholden to interests outside the realm of her constituency. How about we make it illegal to get campaign contributions from interests outside of a congress person's district? Here is another example. The case of SpeechNow.org vs. FEC removed the cap on donations to PACs for independent expenditures. That allows unrestricted spending on propaganda for, or against a candidate. What if we reinstated those caps on donations to PACs.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Of course not. It is not hard at all. Fixing the problem is easy, once you get enough support to force the issue. I am simply proposing that OWS make campaign finance reform a core issue. Once politicians are held accountable to the issue, it can be solved. I'm not trying to propose legislation. I am only trying to plead the case for campaign finance reform as a starting point for the movement's agenda. I feel that if the movement cannot come up with a popular single agenda, it will stall.

[-] 1 points by HeavySigh (227) 13 years ago

That wasn't hard now was it?

[-] 1 points by preOccupied (3) 13 years ago

Yes, this really does seem to be the salient message. It is key not to stray....

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I believe that focus and clarity are very important in garnering the support of a majority of Americans.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

I hate to keep spamming this, but it already has a lot of support - 237k signatures right now: http://www.getmoneyout.com/

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

One man's ideal is another man's spam. As long as you are not selling something, carry on.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

I urge you to spam.. err, "idealize".. as well if you agree with it :-) I think it is worded excellently.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Cheers. We are on the same page. I like it.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

I hope people will gravitate to this one. It seems to be the root of most of the problems people complain about, and consequently the original call to action for the protests. One person at a time, I guess.

[-] 3 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I think this will be the core issue in the long run. Really, what can we do until we get the money out of politics.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

That's exactly what I think. The deeper point I would argue is to audit the fed, which I see as the root of the root of the problem. But that's complicated, and maybe we don't need to if we get the money out.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I think that the FED is a big problem. A big, fat, hairy, complicated problem. It must be dealt with, but as far as OWS goes, they need something that people can easily wrap their brains around. Campaign finance reform is, imho, a good start.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 13 years ago

I agree. I am fairly educated in math, physics, etc but the fed is still difficult to understand. "End the fed" was a meaningless statement to me until recently.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Yes, I think if can get actually leaders into office, these problems can be handled. I believe that we will never have real "public servants" until we can reform the campaign financing system. The FED definitely needs to be handled. It is frightening how much power the FED has, in relation to their level of transparency.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 13 years ago

I would like to vote happy fingers on this. Up sparkles.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds positive, so I'll just go with it. lol

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 13 years ago

I'm just trying to follow the process...

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Oh, are you referring to the hand signals used at GA? I've heard about those.

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 13 years ago

The goal should be to get me an iPhone. A lot of you guys seem to have them.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I don't have a cell phone. Can you believe that?

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 13 years ago

OK, then you should get first dibs on the iPhone. I'll take the next one.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Honestly, I don't want one. I am a writer who hardly ever leaves the house. My family is almost always together, so I really don't need one. When they pass them out, you can have mine.

[-] 1 points by KirkVanHouten (123) 13 years ago

You're the best!

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

No, WE are the best.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 13 years ago

BINGO!

We need to pick an issue that is simple - that is popular - how about an issue that 83% of Americans agree on - that 56% of TP agree on - that will cement the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS

Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system. It will be as short and concise as possible, a legally constructed “corporations and other organizations are not a persons and have no personhood rights” and “money is not free speech”.

We don’t have to persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – from jobs, to taxes, to infrastructure , to Medicare – much easier to achieve – by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.

THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, using the same tactics, within just 17 months they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Other amendments were ratified even faster: Eight—the 7th, 12th, 13th, 15th, 17th, 20th, 21st and 26th—took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)

If they could tie the left and right into success - WHY CAN'T WE??????????

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Agreed. To me that sounds like Campaign Finance Reform!

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 13 years ago

End the Federal Reserve System.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Agreed. That issue may be a little too complicated to serve as a starting point, though.

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 13 years ago

Force Change, Boycott Capitalism until we have full government resignation and a new online voting system with verification so we can rebuild our country and eventually our world.

We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.

When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.

Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.

Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.

How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.

Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.

In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.

They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.

Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.

Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.

Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??

Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.

We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.

Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.

Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change

http://wesower.org

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Agreed. Accountability in government is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 13 years ago

recent posts

DKAtoday 1 points 6 minutes ago

Perhaps this website could post a form where everyone could place they're insights/issues in a format that could collect the numbers of those responding and the number of issues and how many have the same issues. These could then be compiled after a given length of time and formatted into a list of demands/issues to be addressed and these could be presented at Protests/Demonstrations and by direct contact. reply permalink edit delete ↥ ↧ DKAtoday 1 points 0 seconds ago

Perhaps this website could also post a form where everyone could contribute likely future candidates.

[-] 1 points by dthompson (79) from New York, NY 13 years ago

Save the children! Feed them to the whales!

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Save a cow. Eat a vegetarian!

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

the answer is, no, we need to have a very wide net of many different goals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA

I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
  8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
  9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
  10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
  11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 13 years ago

Force Change, Boycott Capitalism

until we have full government resignation and a new online voting system with verification so we can rebuild our country and eventually our world.

We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.

When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.

Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.

Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.

How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.

Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.

In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.

They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.

Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.

Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.

Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??

Occupy Washington and demand that all government officials resign their posts.

We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.

Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.

Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change

http://wesower.org

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

"Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us." Your words<< I propose that a way to do this is to find an issue that creates a starting point. One that many can agree with. Campaign Finance Reform! Buy Back the Vote!

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I completely agree. I, however, am not trying to speak to the whole electorate. I am simply trying to influence the movement to form a simple cohesive platform which can be promoted. I believe that platform should be Campaign Finance Reform. If we can reign in big$$ in the political process, then your third party might have a chance.

[-] 1 points by bettersystem (170) 13 years ago

That is definitely 1 platform issue, the separation of the market and government systems.

Abuse of office will cease to exist when there are no more incentives for doing so.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by outsidethebox (27) from Dorset, VT 13 years ago

One goal - put the Federal Reserve out of business. They are a group of evil private bankers who control our money and our government. It would solve a lot of problems.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I completely agree. I am not sure, though, that topic could be explained in a way to get a majority of Americans on board. That simply must happen, but until we can get control of our leaders it probably never will. Campaign Finance Reform! Buy Back the Vote!

[-] 1 points by dollarsshouldntvote (1) 13 years ago

I agree with Philpux. The only was to create a system that works for the 99% is to to get big moneys out sized influence out of our political process. I really think publicly funded elections are the key. Politicians serve those that put them in power. Lets be the ones to put them there. A real democracy is possible, but until politicians no longer need corporate interests to stay in power they will continue to be there puppets.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Awesome! Right on. I couldn't have said it better.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 13 years ago

OK. I can very well see your point and I agree. A common Goal Statement should be made. The thing is, if we can't get those in office right now to pay attention and begin to address our concerns. What chance do we have with future representatives? Each of us can send a statement of our goals in joining this movement. Hopefully those who are organizing can present us all with an opportunity to hammer-out a unified proposal to be sent.

If we do not begin direct communications now. How can we show our future elected officials that to ignore us is to commit political suicide?

Spread the word. Protests, Demonstrations coupled with direct communication and using the concept of Six Degrees Of Separation could be very powerful & synergistic. Tell your friends and family.

Contact the White house: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Contact the senate: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Contact Congress: http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

Contact the house of representatives: http://www.house.gov/htbin/findrep?ZIP=55433

Contact the Supreme Court: http://www.supremecourt.gov/

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

thanks Philpux. Please help spread the word by having people post this link on their facebook page, so far, I hear a lot of people are on board...we will get 're done!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/

[-] 1 points by CorporationNotPerson (129) 13 years ago

End Corporate Person-hood! Wall Street would no longer own Washington. Support the Human Worth Amendment. To learn more, go to: http://occupywallst.org/forum/human-worth-amendment/

[-] 1 points by preOccupied (3) 13 years ago

Bingo! This, is really the crux of the current problems. Yes, rich individuals have political voice advantages to be sure, but they can be managed with laws and as real individuals, they can go to jail for misdeeds, unlike corporations. The Supreme Court is what needs to be more carefully regarded, as it is what allowed "Citizens United" to prevail.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Citizens United vs. FEC is obscene, no doubt. I think more needs to be done, though. Big $$ owned our government before that egregious decision by the Supreme Court. That decision just gave them a lock on power. Campaign Finance Reform! Buy Back the Vote!

[-] 1 points by PUSH4change (2) 13 years ago

Seems to me a logical solution would be to fight for a reasonable cap on how much more the people at the top of a company can make than the people at the bottom of the company. That way if the top 1% wanted to earn more money they would have to raise the incomes of those at the bottom of their company (foreign or domestic) to realize their own increases, rather than doing what they do now which is lower the base pay as low as possible to increase their own returns. Right now the average CEO makes 1000 times as much as their lowest paid worker. If the government limited that ratio to even 750 times, I guarantee you everyone would see a 25% increase in pay overnight.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Something definitely needs to be done. We used to have a system that accomplished that, sort of. From WW2 on, tax rates for the extremely wealthy were very high. Sometimes as much as 90%. They declined a bit until 1980. Hmm. After they they have been in freefall. Now the highest rate is about 35%, and most have found loop holes so that they only pay about 16-18%. In reality they are paying a lower rate than the middle class, which is about 25%, now. Also, we had a respectable minimum wage in the old days. That has been lobbied down over the years in comparison to inflation. Also, unions used to be able to negotiate livable wages. Now collective bargaining rights are being frittered away, under the idea that we need to compete globally. The only reason we need to compete with China, & India on wages is because of "free trade agreements." I agree completely. We need to address the wages issue.

[-] 1 points by northernnieghbour (8) 13 years ago

i think that this song clip from the les miserables sums up what everyone is feeling. (thought i would use the multi-language version because this is a global movement)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPpkTgMbhRU

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Great musical. Great song. My fav is "Castle on a Cloud." There are a lot of similarities between the French revolution and our current state of affairs.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

most movements don't have a clear objective when they start

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I don't believe that is what history shows.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Permabear View Post Who do you think the "Be with AIB" commercials are directed at? The banks and corporations depend upon the patronage of the same ordinary people you regard as powerless.


posted by 20Cent

Sadly I think you are serious.


Quote: Originally Posted by Permabear View Post Yes, but those protesters had clear goals: "Stop Vietnam" and "Civil Rights for Everyone" are messages that people can get behind. These protesters have no clear goals; they just have a litany of complaints about what "they" are doing wrong, and a vague intention to keep on protesting until "they" do things in a nonspecifically different way.


posted by 20Cent

Its a grass roots movement it doesn't just spring up with one demand and a solution. That's not how these things work, how do you get clear goals and solutions from thousands of people. Themes come from these things, an expression of outrage at the influence and fraud that is happening on wall street. That's enough.

The name calling and slagging off of people who are actually out trying to improve things in their country is very cynical. Even people against the protests should be for the right to express themselves and be shocked at the police brutality. Apparently it was the largest mass arrest in US history on Saturday!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056400051&page=11#163

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I'm not sure what you are saying. The most successful grass roots movements of the 20th century all had very specific goals. I think it is okay that OWS started without one. I know that assembly was the first stage. I just think that the time is drawing near when OWS will have to focus on a specific issue in order to survive the holidays. lol I think that goal should be campaign finance reform. I don't think we can do much until we accomplish that.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

Yes, it is way too scattered. A few bad eggs are causing the entire batch to be thrown out.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I like eggs with ketchup.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

When life gives you eggs, make an omelette!

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I like omelets with ketchup too. lol

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

Ain't no omelette like a chicken-egg omelette, 'cause a chicken-egg omelette is clucking great!

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I'm not sure where this conversation is going, but it's fun. lol

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

Yeah, it's supposed to be about having a common goal or being discarded due to collapse/disagreement or the corruption by a few.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Yes. The momentum of the movement depends on progress.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

And progress cannot be achieved without something to work for.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Agreed.

[-] 1 points by Tommiethenoncommie (211) 13 years ago

Yet they insist on the opposite. How odd.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

You know, I am hoping that they know this, and have a plan for assembling a clear goal. I'm worried, though, because of the lack of planning for the cold in NYC. I really want to steer them towards a consensus viewpoint, which I believe should be campaign finance reform.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

yes, you hit the nail on the HEAD Philpux. How about this to start with? see last paragraph...cheers

http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I like it. Carry on.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

thanks! so far the DC OWS seems to be on board! Let's see what happens. I'm just a first time old fart blogger.. but this subject of WS re-regulations has been dear to my heart since 2008..so please let the OWS headquarters know that I love them! And this might work...

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

No doubt. I was alarmed when they repealed Glass-Stigall. It seems to have gone downhill from there. Not only did Glass-Stigall help protect us from them, it helped to protect them from themselves. lol

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

how true! lol at them! lol.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

No doubt.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

yes. And OWS DC seems to be on board with the DC March for G-S Act. Just send this to one great guy:

what's the latest in DC? So far, to let everyone know what I was up to, I have reached out to almost everyone that either wrote a story on the Forum, or was featured on a youtube link. And so far, the response has been great. I also signed up for Twitter for this, which I still don't know what that means, except that the OWS is following me...With that confidence, I Twitted this to the following:

Million People March to WDC to Reinstate Glass-Steagall Act. When? 6/16/12, 79th Anniv of G-S Act. http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/ To Ralph Nader, OWS, OWS Times, The Other 99, Matt Taibbi, Senator Byron Dorgan, Senator Maria Cantwell, Senator Ted Kaufman, Senator Sanders, Dylan Ratigan Show, Ed Show, Keith Oblermann Show, Rachel Maddow Show, Jon Stewart Show, Finance Reform Org, RB Reich, Marcus Mabry...plus I emailed it to Public Citizen, James Galbrath (nice guy), Sam Stein, and Eric Lipton, and my main man for reform, Professor Michael Greenberger. Cheers Let's get this Done first, than we will have the Power to move on to....

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I like it. Boom.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

cheers! see you in DC on 6/16/12, beers on me...

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Maybe we will go. Sounds good.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 13 years ago

come, join us.......... here's a good bubble story...Dr. Mark Cooper on oil speculators

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-ii_Xo_vnI&feature=related

[-] 1 points by FuzzyThinker (112) from Jacksonville, FL 13 years ago

Rally around This: Fight for #4. Speculation destroys Stability. IRAs get hurt. Control the Gamblers: Advocate a tax of 30%(payed at time of sale) on Short Term Capital Gains for first 2 years. No more Deducting Short Term Losses on your taxes.

I get the impression that anarchists control this website and have No Intention of Achieving Consensus and Voicing a Specific Action. We need a congresswo/men to be a sponsor of each Demand. I have 19 more Fighting Points: http://fuzzythinker.WebStarts.com/ows-_fighting_points.html

[-] 2 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Those are all great ideas, but perhaps a little too complicated for the average American voter. I like "Buy Back the Vote," because it's focus is very clear and most Americans can understand it. Also, as Mooks pointed out, it's something many people would probably agree on.

[-] 1 points by FuzzyThinker (112) from Jacksonville, FL 13 years ago

To Me, 'Buy Back the Vote' is vague. Many people do not vote. What they want to rally around is: tangible, hits my pocket book, sock-it-to-em. My idea could be a sound-bite: 'Protect my IRA from Wall Street'. It is not as grand as 'Buy Back', though.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Well, a sound bite is what I was going for. The issue is complicated, but if you want to get American's attention, you have to go all public school on them. Americans love a good sound bite. It should be short, crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

[-] 0 points by Joeschmoe1000 (270) 13 years ago

Goal should be:

Shed your monetary chains

Mail all assets to me.

Simple and forceful Direct and effective!

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Save the world! Give it to Joe! It's so crazy, it might just work.

[-] 0 points by aquainted (268) 13 years ago

Easy, simple Goals to permanent victory: 1) Get reliable internet voting going, 24/7 2) Demand a new law forcing Government to follow the vote, period 3) Everybody votes and keeps voting on all issues, every month 4) We rule! And fix all the problems of government

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I'm not sure I would trust that internet voting could not be subverted, at this point. I like the idea though.

[-] 0 points by aquainted (268) 13 years ago

Subversion is possible, but there are several ways to make it reliable, the point is we have to have a way to reach consensus and rule, otherwise we will be ruled by insiders who can be bribed, and are bribed. I can't think of another way to do it. Can you?

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

Campaign Finance Reform! Also transparency and accountability would help. I like your idea. I think it is the ultimate way to govern. I'm just not ready to trust the government to a system so vulnerable to attack and manipulation.

[-] 0 points by aquainted (268) 13 years ago

If there is only going to be one goal, it should be a law that forces government to follow the popular vote on all major issues.

However we are going to have to more goals than this to fix a completely broken government.

[-] 0 points by aquainted (268) 13 years ago

Everyone has their own specific goal. Good for them. My goal is daily internet voting for all Americans on all important issues.

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

I like it. Direct consensus.

[-] 0 points by unitedwe (78) 13 years ago

Buy more iPads!!!!

[-] 1 points by Philpux (643) from Mountain View, AR 13 years ago

PC's are cheaper.

[-] 1 points by unitedwe (78) 13 years ago

Oh, they won't be free??