Forum Post: One of the 1%...don't throw rocks please :)
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 9:38 p.m. EST by herect
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HI. I'm a teacher and my husband works on Wall Street. He spent 22 years active duty (again, no rocks) Air Force before getting this job in IT. Our combined salaries + his retirement we live a comfortable life. I'm trying to figure out if OWS thinks everyone and anyone working on Wall Street is (fill in the blank) or ? Could someone define the 1%? We both work hard (he's on the 5:20 train in the am and isn't home until 8...hey, better hours than the military!) As my husband would say...one unpopular profession to another. If the mission will truly be about separating the money from the politics, we're both all in. My husband is required to donate money every year to the candidate "suggested" by his bosses. They kindly deduct it from his pay in increments. It still nauseates me. I don't mind paying more taxes if it benefits my neighbor, my neighborhood or those who need it. It do mind the government pissing it away. I really mind. I don't know if anyone has looked at the http://www.opensecrets.org/ website. It's supposedly non-partisan, etc. So, what's the story? Everyone on Wall Street is the 1%? If you make over x dollars, you are the 1%. Thanks. Not a troll, fyi Just trying to figure out if I'm delivering food on Saturday or if you guys are going to stone us to death...
You're welcome here and at Zuccotti. Thank you. The 1% vs. 99% is about mindset.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions. I will say that you would have support from the worker bees on WS if they didn't feel so targeted. It's hard to support even a just cause if you are actively excluded from it. Just a thought. Thanks again. See you in the streets.
There are many in the 1% that seem to support the OWS movement. While I make a pretty good living myself, I'm also considering bringing food to the protesters. I don't think it's about attacking the 1%. It's about the 99% who feel as if they've been rendered voiceless by a system where legislation tends to go to the highest bidders, without as much regard for what's actually right.
TLydon007 As a middle aged, employed, woman with an apartment (and even wash! lol) I can honestly say you are spot on. I have spent the past two weeks filling in at the info desk and marching the Brooklyn Bridge and on the 5th. It is NOT about political parties, changing from capitalism, and especially NOT about individuals working hard and making money. It's exactly what you stated! I went there to seek my own information, found it to be peaceful and inclusive of all, and my way to voice my dissatisfaction at the way our economy is driving us downward. I wish people my age would also remember if corporations were made to pay their fair share and stop outsourcing (bigger tax base), perhaps our Social Security and Medicare programs would not be in danger - not an entitlement but the money we paid for years being stolen from us. With things the way they are today, the 1% can take away anything from anybody whenever they want - 401k's, pensions etc. No one is "safe" in these times. With free trade agreements made with Columbia, South Korea, and Panama two days ago, I can only envision more outsourcing.
Well, I think a lot of us realize it's not a "conspiracy." It's just sort of a domino/snowflake issue. One company does this, and then another company does it to stay competitive. People aren't paying attention and thinking about who they're giving there money too. It's just a huge mess of things one after another. I think a lot of the 1%ers knew it was happening but there wasn't really a way to stop it.
Hopefully we can with this and things don't get too much worse.
Well said. Thanks.
It isn't unreasonable to ask the people who bought the politicians to fix the problem. The rest of us can't afford to them them back The 1%, or members of it, are responsible, but not all of the1% are the enemy. Not all of the victims understand what he root causes of their problems are..We would like nothing better than to be the 100% working together. There are people on both sides saying intemperate things.
There are a number of 1%er's who are helping us any way they can (not including professional suicide).
A lot of the 99% can't help much because they have nothing left to give. This is like the depression for 25 million of us. We are all a bit scared.
Well said. After researching for days, I was absolutely stunned to find the depth of financial partnership between our elected officials and ws, union and lobbyist, etc. money. I always felt my vote didn't matter, now I know why.
McCain (R) and Hagan (D) have proposed a tax holiday for corporations in which they can bring some of their trillions of dollars from offshore into the country at a reduced tax rate. Think tanks on both sides (democratic and republican) have found they see little chance, if any, of this holiday creating jobs in our country. Instead, it is predicted that the corporations will find loopholes and pay nothing as they did under Bush in 2004. However, the taxpayers (99%) will be paying out approximately $10 million due to it.
Poll after poll shows that Dem, Independents and GOP voter overwhelmingly support something (and the do) and Republican in Congress block it, when they put the reputation of the country in jeopardy for no good reason and the whole spectrum are telling them not to do it, you have to be blind not to recognize that somebody has bought the whole bunch of them.
We had always believe it was a matter of convincing a majority. It turns out it doesn't matter. The game is totally rigged. This is where they turn over the table and start shooting in the western movies.
I think the 99% is showing restraint of heroic proportions and I am proud to be associated with it. I have been saying, when your Mom's join up and when your Grandma's come we have won.
That's when the serious work starts. It didn't get broken over night and it won't get fixed over night. I may not be here for it, being an old white guy. But I am paying it forward for my grand kids and for yours. And that's a legacy I can be proud of. This is about jobs and fair government and pride in self. It isn't about handouts. Those who say otherwise are lying.
Agreed. Many of us are scared and/or angry. When will find a voice? When everything is gone?
Brando said in "Viva Zapata," "A weak people need a strong leader. A strong people don't need a leader." We, the people, are the leaders we are depending upon.
The 1% make more than 593,000. Nobody says that's bad, it's just time to close the loopholes and have them pay their fair share. These folks were paying their share under Clinton, it was Bush who gave them the big tax cuts which went directly to the deficit along the two wars which were off the books.
I don't think anyone begrudges people who work hard for what they have. People that are so bad that they get fired from their job, then get a 5-10 million dollar severance package is not someone who works hard. I think most people can see the difference. I thank you and your husband, both teaching and a life in the military are both very respectful.
If you are one of those 1%er that are honest and want to see a positive change then you are not targeted. Those targeted are the greedy ones, the liars, the thieves, the corrupt ones. Now, lets assume that the type of work your husband does contributes partly to the problem (you know? one of those "...I didn't wanted to do it but I HAD to because it was part of my job and my boss told me to do it, I feel regretful to having done it, but I had no choice" to these types of 1% I would recommend organizing a union, talking with all your co-workers and then going to strike. Having no employees working for a corrupt boss will force that boss to make positive changes, but if it is only ONE employee that feels this way versus every other employee, then that employee is stuck in a bad cold matrix where if he doesn't agree with this boss he could get fired and quickly replaced. If this is the position, its a tough one and ONLY that employee is in the position to come up with good ideas to try to change things. Quitting the job is not going to change anything aside that 1% joining the 99%, because another employee is going to fill his spot and the company will run the same as before, except that the good intentioned employee is outside the company and can no longer try to effectuate a good change over there. An idea that I would suggest IF your husband works for a corrupt boss, is for him to gather information of any behavior of corruption and anonymously post it online, use internet caffes, or an anonymous VPN proxy server such as the services of HMA (hidemyass.com) it only cost about $6 per month and you can post information online that wont trace back to your IP address, I recommend this route to avoid corporate retaliation if your husband works for a corrupted boss and he has evidence to post online, websites that he and you can use includes wikileaks amongst other choices you might find all over the internet, just dont forget to do it anonymously to protect employment and to keep on gathering more future data. Eventually the boss's company will collapse in the weight of all the leaks, and MAYBE a chain reaction of collapting/exposing other corrupted companies and or bosses might start and this might collapse/expose alot of corruption out there.
The only possibility that I know is that alot of corruption happens in wall street, it IS up to the EMPLOYEES that works over there to gather information and EXPOSE THEM, again, use services like HMA if you plan to expose using your own computer and internet connection from your house, or go to an internet caffe with your exposure already saved in your USB thumb drive and expose it there. I dont think it will be pretty for you if you get caugh exposing corporate corruption, so that's why anonymity is very important. Important: if you use HMA, be sure to download their VPN client and choose a VPN server outside the USA, its imperative that the VPN client is in the "CONNECTED" state, erase your browser's cookies before and after the conclusion of each exposure. Dont forget to "Disconnect" your HMA VPN client before resuming normal browsing usage. Never check your personal email or do anything PERSONAL while your HMA VPN connection is Active.
Important about Youtube: Youtube now requires cell phone validation when creating a new account with them, because of this, you may not want to use Youtube to submit your leak, even if you use your HMA VPN connection active, there is one thing that will trace back to you regarding that youtube account, the cell phone number that was used to validate that youtube account. There might be similar online video services comparable to youtube that might not require cell phone validation to create an account with them, you might look for them via google to find out there website(s). Again, wikileaks is a great starter, it doesn't require any validations of any sorts for you to submit data over there, and I think you can submit videos too, from there, I think the wikileaks admins will take the job over of propagating your information to as much channels as possible, possibly including their youtube channel.
*About me: I am a professional computer tech with intensive computer forensic and networking knowledge, all tips I gave you are for your best interest in protecting your privacy IF you have anything to expose to the world.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write and share all of that information. We talked ourselves into a state of paranoia and decided to remain "radio silent" after a long and sleepless weekend. I will investigate everything you outlined above. It is so detailed. I really appreciate it. Thanks again to everyone who took so much of their personal time to answer questions.
First of all I served six years in the USAFR so please thank your husband for his service. Your service in our country, as a teacher, is appreciated as well. I'd like to put my two cents in as someone who has been at OWS NYC for two weeks now. I have worked the info desk and marched. I am middle aged, employed, have an apartment and even wash! LOL You have to remember that people who post on OWS are not the direct message of OWS. You may be getting misinformation from people who do not even know the information you seek. First, I have found OWS to be a very peaceful, accepting, diverse group. There is no political party agenda, nor the wish to overthrow the government and change the system to socialism nor communism. It is rather, a gathering of people who have witnessed greedy corporations not pay their fair share, continue to outsource jobs, and the crooked politicians who have allowed it. How many times have we all had conversations with family, friends, a stranger in a store about rising prices, property values, cutbacks of schools, safety etc., job layoffs and outsourcing? Often we end that conversation with "well what are you going to do?" OWS is what is what we're going to do. To show the 99% (of whom you and your husband are a part of) are tired of it and want change. GE's profits are $14.2 billion and they get a federal tax refund of $3.2 billion. It probably helped that they are the biggest lobbying group in DC spending $6.8 million a quarter. "Wall Street" is a symbolism. The media and the mayor have spread it as anyone working on Wall Street to discredit the true message. (I probably would too if I were a billionaire and my way of life might be changed). Thankfully, people like you who are intelligent, seek out information and make their own decisions. I hope you decide to stop there and speak to people firsthand. Good luck!
By the way I worked on Wall Street as a secretary when I first graduated high school. That was back in the day when you could go to a company, fill out an application and be hired within a week. The company paid medical, dental, life insurance, etc. What has changed?
I have been at OWS NYC for the past two weeks. I do not stay in the park. You have to remember that anyone from anywhere can post/chat on OWS.org. I have filled in at the info desk, marched the Brooklyn Bridge and on the 5th. I am middle aged, educated, employed and have a nice apartment (oh and I wash lol). The reason I have been drawn back time after time is that I have found OWS to be peaceful and accepting. Also the message has no party agenda, nor desire to turn the US to socialism, communism etc. People who work hard for their money (and are lucky enough to be employed) are not what this movement is about. It is about greedy corporations who do not pay their fair share as well as politicians who are bought by them. I have several people in my family who earn six figures and they pay huge amounts of taxes. Meanwhile, GE earned $14,2 billion in profit and yet received $3.2 billion in a federal refund. I'm sure being the number one lobbying group in DC ($6.8 million for a quarter) helped. You are the 99%. I hope you do come down. I didn't understand until I did although I've known for years our country was being destroyed from the inside. I served six years in the USAFR and please thank your husband for his service.
This is not a hate movement against the wealthy....please understand that. It is about the corruption that is caused by some of the wealthy that have bought and paid for the politicians that WE have elected...thereby muting our voices and our concerns.
News flash, you're in the 99%. I too was in the military for six years and am currently a nurse working for a HUGE insurance company as a Case Manager. I have great benefits, great pay for doing very little for society. I am ashamed, but trapped as I have a family to support. This is WHO WE ARE, whether you make a comfortable living or not. Everyone should be able to attain wealth that they earn honestly and spend it as they should. You are exactly the type of person, as am I, that this movement is intending to represent. I don't think OWS has sent a clear message of what they are about and what they really want, which is a shame, there should be a succinct message associated. However, I like that they are doing SOMETHING. The point of living in a civilized, humane society is to take care of others. I don't mind paying high taxes as long as it's helping my fellow man. I talk to people everyday, the elderly, some who lived through WW2 and the depression, who don't have proper care. It's sickening. What I'd like to see happen is a focused effort on contacting CEOs of our major banks and corporations and asking them to set the example by giving more and conducting business more fairly. As an American, I feel I have everything I need. I have a decent house, a car, can afford clothes and laptops for my kids. It's enough. I don't need yachts, jets, mansions, extravagant parties and so on. How rich do these people need to be? I don't think the focus here is or should be on the average Joe working in an office on Wall Street, the focus is on the companies who were bailed out by our tax money, used it for ill purposes and suffered no repercussions and are still taking from America...shipping jobs overseas, paying their top execs what's acceptable by any standard and not giving back and investing in their country. To me, this is the most absurd form of treason. Capitalism is 'money at work' and should be working for our country, not for a select few. Thanks for posting this, I feel much the same as you and would like to see a clearer message going forward.
There is many in the 1% including billionaires who would support this cause if they care about people more than making another extra billion. And there are many in the 99% who drank the Koolaid of Faux news and are repeating Ayn Rand's mantra. So it all depends. 99% and 1% is just a slogan to make a point, that the small minority are destroying the planet with their greed and this should not be allowed to go on.
Great post. The one percent are the people making in excess of one million dollars a year off the 99 percents' deposits in Main Street banks, pissing it away, being bailed out by the same tax payers moeny as the pissed away and then still receiving bonuses for their efforts. It doesnt sound like your husband or you fall into that category...Not all bankers are bad, not all military personel want to kill and not all politicians are evil - only the ones who try to profit from others misery. I hope my explanation has helped. Power to the people!
Having a healthy economy is in anyone's best interest, including the 1%. I think everyone's interests are aligned. The problem we all have is more about a systemic sheltering of specific individuals and corporate entities for fraudulent gains at the expense of everyone else. This movement is occurring because corruption and apathy are perceived by the populace. This is true in the ongoing foreclosure crisis, it is true in the failure to regulate and separate loaning from investing banks, failure to implement restrictions of conflicts of interests in lending and derivatives, failure to bring unemployment down. There is concern that the Federal Reserve cares more about market prices than economic productivity to protect the assets of billionaires and keep the dollar ridiculously strong at the expense of tens of millions of American jobs and tens of trillions in debt for future generations. They are fine with the creation of a generally indentured nation. There is a perception that the federal gov has bent to powerful pressure to do nothing. There is concern that the people have no true representatives in government. I wouldn't be concerned about the 1% thing. That is just an arbitrary number that sounds good. I am probably in the 2%, but just got lucky they didn't arbitrarily say 2%...so I'm ok...lol.
No one is going to stone you. No one is anti-military. I thank your husband for his service to the country. In fact, many, many veterans are part of the demonstration.
If things do not change, there will not be a country worth fighting for. Your position in the 1% will not save you.
We are protesting for you and with you.
if you work hard, your not what is meant by "1 percent." most of the people on wall street are being used by the system at some level. your part of the 99 percent.
It sounds like you are not one of the folks who are deliberately forcing policy changes to take more than your share. It even appears that you are experiencing the injustice that the people on the street are if your husband is being forced to support a candidate of his firm's choice with his financial contribution. One reason we are protesting is to end the fear of speaking up, of losing what we have if we ask for justice and our rights (Your husband's rights are being grossly violated by being forced to contribute). We are paving the way for you to give your money to the causes you wish instead of paying off politicians.
Please deliver food. We are speaking for you, for a fairer and more democratic economy and government. No one is going to stone you. We are sworn to non-violence. We know that if we resort to it our cause is lost. Besides, the primary reason we are in the streets is to co-create a world based on love, justice and tolerance.
I, too, am a teacher. The love of my life was a corporate lawyer who defended all the Big Companies. Columbia/Yale. Skull and Crossbones. And I know what a good guy he was. As you and your husband are. Some of my "best friends are Wall Streeters."
Peace,
Marcia from Vancouver, WA
That's pretty sick about the mandatory political donations as payroll deductions. I have never heard that before. Who was the candidate in 2008 that would benefit your Wall Street employer?
First, good post. Your honesty and civility are refreshing.
Second, this movement is about ideas and a common interest in making the system more equitable and just. The people who received the bailout and the people who concocted it are representative of a bigger problem. The system is clearly broken, and it's easy to cast aspersions at the #OWS, but they're not the ones who broke the system in the first place. And clearly the current system's inhabitants aren't fixing the problem.
Farful people tend to call #OWS liberal or socialist, but it's neither. These terms need to be thrown into the dustbin of history. In fact, if you look at the draft declaration of articles being put together, you notice that there's a "balanced budget amendment" demand. I really disagree with this, but I'm one of many.
[Draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/]
And I think you hit the nail on the head:
"I don't mind paying more taxes if it benefits my neighbor, my neighborhood or those who need it. It do mind the government pissing it away."
I'd guess that 99.99% of the people in this movement agree with that sentiment. It's not socialism. it's not class warfare. It's simple, reasonable decency. And when you see that tax rates are the lowest that they've been for the highest earners in the country (http://tinyurl.com/3udnd56) you know this it really isn't a radical solution to bump them up a couple percent for those who can afford it. The divide between the wealthiest and the least wealthy in this country is larger than it's ever been. There's something wrong with this picture. It's not about ideology as much as it is about national priorities. (Finland decided to give homeless people homes and healthcare--not only did it not destroy them, they're thriving economically and socially. It's all about priorities.)
People who are civilized and decent and respectful and support Ron Paul? Great, welcome. People who attack and belittle and denigrate (regardless of whom they support)? Not so much. And there's been a lot of that.
Let me be one of the folks to offer an open and warm welcome!
Peace.
Groobiecat
[ There's an #OWS election process here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/ ]
[ There's a draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ ]
The 1% refers to those who hold the majority of wealth in this world. Something like 1% of the population accounting for 80% of world's economic wealth (maybe more). Your job as a teacher and your husband's role in IT on wall street would necessarily be included in that 1% unless you have a huge trust fund that's attached to Microsoft or the like that you haven't shared on this thread. I hope this clears things up.
My definition of the 1% - those that use their wealth (corporations, special interest, individuals) to buy their representation in government. At the expense of the voices of the 99%.
Unless you spend an extraordinary amount of money in campaign contributions, I would suggest you are in the 99%. (But I don't mean to assume or speak for you, just my interpretation)
Either way, welcome and hope this helps!
The second one person start destroying property or harming innocents the police will sac us all. It's not worth sacrificing the movement. Anyone engaging in this behavior should be turned by the community. There may be moles in the crowd or people on T.V. who want to start a riot. Tell them to shut up.
I have joined OWS to get all the damn money out of politics and I am going to push for this to make headlines in the coming months.
I always tell people to go to the protests before making up mind no one is going to know that you are a 1 percent unless you put on a fur coat spray yourself with Chanel and call every one darling. Talk to people and decide no one is going to bite.
I would be tempted to find a fur coat and some, blech, Chanel, just to challenge that kind of superficial judgment. You can't judge a person by their clothing, can you? Sorry, short rant (not at you, I promise), that just always annoys me. I see the same attitude towards very smart, very capable and motivated individuals who don't wear the button down Oxford and tie, people with tattoos, etc. in the white collar workspace. I mean, come on - a person is not the sum of what is on their backs, in their pants, or around their neck. You have to dig deeper than that. If you don't, someone is going to get the better of you someday by using your preconceived notions to their advantage.
Herect, I am a small business owner and I make a decent living and I make sure that my employees are well taken care of. They have a great livable wage they make around $75,000 a year, I went with a great PPO health insurance plan and even offer paid for child care. They have a retirement account and stock options. I am far from being a millionaire but working towards that goal. The difference between me and the 1% other then the cash flow is that I care about the people who are working for me. We are a family, yes we are a corporation and I have 8 people who work for me. Not all corporations are bad. You are a part of the 99% same as me. The people who hurt the economy, (and my business has been affected) and steal from the middle class these are the people who sit in their ivory towers on a golden throne that has been provided to them by the blood, seat and tears of the average worker. The middle classes pensions have been robbed, their savings have been stolen, their houses are being stolen because of illegal and immoral banking practices. Kids coming out of college are in debt and there is no work because these banksters have paid off the politicians to make it easier for them to outsource jobs, and not pay their fair share. These are the people I am against. I at the moment allowed 3 of my employees paid time off to go down and join the Occupy Philadelphia movement, I sent them down with donations for food and comfort. We live in a plutocracy and none of us are safe or immune from these banksters thievery. You and your husband are a part of the 99%. I am also an honorably discharged Sergeant from the Army. You are the same as all of us. We are all the 99%
If I may make a few points, any "suggested candidate donations" is, in fact criminal. My understanding from existing workplace law (IANAL) is that this is a violation and should get his bosses some jail time. I understand of course that he might not want to rock the boat and all but when people on Wall Street criticize unions or the National Labor Relations Board you might note that this is one of the kinds of things that both exist to prevent.
But anyway, speaking only for myself, Wall Street is about opposition to both what happens there, and what the dominant costs are. Wall Street has always been about trading and profit but since the 80's it has come to hold a special, privileged place in American politics. Not only is the DIJA reported each day as if it matters but "what's good for Wall Street" is typically treated as "What's good for America."
And since the 80's what's good for Wall Street has been about the short-term sales. Chainsaw Al may be long gone but he is the example that many have followed. Layoffs of Americans, Outsourcing, "Free-Trade" deals and even privatized education have all been given enthusiastic support by Wall Street firms and their hired politicians, most likely through the "suggested donations" that bother you so much. Now, even as these trends have adversely impacted many Americans (say 99%) Wall Street has, as a political block and as represented by its wealthy elites and their representatives, argued that we should not help struggling Americans with job training or subsidized schooling and so on because that would "drive up the deficit" or just violate "free market principles." Yet as soon as their asses are on the line bailouts are required "for the good of the economy".
Speaking personally my opposition to Wall Street is not about hating everyone who works there. I know people who at one time or another have held a variety of financial jobs. But the major economic power of Wall Street through sleazy behavior and sleazier politics has come to cause major problems for America and that, I believe, must stop. Not your husband necessarily but the machine.
As to the suggested donations as he is not unionized I think his only recourse for complaint may be to the NLRB.
Corporations forcing employees to donate money to the corp's favorite politicians is a common practice, unfortunately.
The Citizens United ruling now allows companies to force employees to attend political meetings.
http://www.yalelawjournal.org/the-yale-law-journal-pocket-part/election-law/addressing-political-captive-audience-workplace-meetings-in-the-post%11citizens-united-environment/
I need to correct my earlier statement about donating money to a candidate. The money goes into a fund sponsored by the company called a PAC fund, which is then pooled and sent off. Just wanted to correct my earlier statement. Thanks.
"My husband is required to donate money every year to the candidate "suggested" by his bosses. They kindly deduct it from his pay in increments. " Wow, that's pretty scary. Does the teacher's union try to persuade you how to vote in any manner? Re: gov't inefficiency- As with any large, complex organization, I'd imagine a large amount of "waste and fraud" is common. It surely needs more attention. However, many times complaints about gov't spending are often reflections of personal biases rather than structural critiques. Anyway, I salute you, teacher! That's a hard, very important job.
Why would you think you would be rejected because you are successful? I will bet dollars for doughnuts, you are NOT one of the 1%
I like the filled kind of doughnuts. The ones with the jelly. We are. So much of the focus has been on Wall Street. Not Washington (where I think so much of the blame lies). Not oil companies, etc. My husband is thinking about coming down too with a few friends (also WS). They just felt they couldn't say what they did for a living. Kinda sad, especially when you think of how powerful it would be. Of course, he would be fired right away, but that's another story. And when they started marching on people's houses, it got scary. I know that was the point. But, by the same measure, ows could justify showing up on my front lawn. So....
Or 5%. Or 8% It depends on which site. I keep trying different ones to get a different answer. I
This is very sweet. The 1% is just a number, a metaphor. Literally, 1% would mean about 1 million households plus (there are about 110 million households in the country). If you are in the top 1 million households, we might ask you to increase your taxes somewhat. I am only speaking for myself, but the onus of taxation has to be modified as the wealthy are getting wealthier and the rest poorer. The opportunities are not here for upward mobility, researchers have noticed this phenomenon. I have been looking for a job for two years. At 60, there are no opportunities. During the Eisenhower years, the top tax rates was 91%. Now it is 37% or something like that. 10% of the population controls 90% of the wealth. Almost 1/3 households that hold mortgages are underwater. The top 500 families have more wealth than the bottom 80 million. Unemployment and underemployment is approaching 25%. One phone poll found out that this figure was 1/3 as recently reported in the media. Children are being affected by all this. Last year, I talked to an 83 year old grandmother out on the street with a sign trying to raise money for her medication. My family and friends raised 1000 to help her. Over 50 million Americans have no health insurance. The wealthy have moral and practical obligation to help, to join in and work for a fairer society. I am shocked at the behavior of your husband's bosses. Totally against the law, They act like your husband is a slave. I would like to know which company this is. Good luck to you. Get involved. We need people like you to help us clarify our ideas and proposals. You sound like a really decent person. Thanks for your contribution here.
Can't say which one. I'm feeling a little like "big brother" is watching. Hope to god "they" don't make any connections...I'm so sorry about your job situation. What do you do, if you don't mind me asking. Maybe someone here can help make a connection? I do agree that the wealthy have a moral and practical obligation to help. We do in small ways. I know others do, but clearly it isn't enough. Are you really shocked at the bosses behavior? I was initially. But then we could tell military boss stories and ...
Yes, well, you can't force employees to vote a certain way and deduct money from their paycheck to finance a contribution. This is obviously wrong and probably illegal. Harkens back to a time in America when ballots were marked by the bosses for the workers. By the way, most Americans really do not know American History. I was a teacher for 15 years ( Peace Corps, L.A. inner city, elementary, high school); a publisher 17 years (formed my own company but very small publisher). I recently spent three months teaching in Mexico but pay is terrible. I have been a political activist throughout much of my life (working for free), never interested in money or possessions so I am a bit unusual in that I don't relate to those kinds of things. I have always believed that humans should all help each other and lift the poor and disadvantaged. It may simply be in my personality or karma, can't explain it otherwise. I sincerely believe that you should get involved in this Movement. You bring a unique perspective to this cause. It sounds like people want to be inclusive. I admire you for coming on here. We need EVERYBODY in America to get involved. The point is to make things better for everybody. Again, I appreciate the time you are taking here. It's all about making the world a better place, right?
Hehe, everyone is so congenial to you - I wonder if they would act the same if you'd said you were the Wall Streeter. If you weren't the lady posting (assuming you're not in a gay marriage - still not legal in NY, last time I checked), I wonder if you would have received such a gentle reaction. You should have seen some of the same folks tear another purportedly 1%er a new one in prior threads... so strange. observes, tilting head, wrinkling eyebrows
I'm sure some will in time, I'm sure. My intentions are good, even if I piss people off. We have 2 kids in college and one in high school. We'd like them to have a future. I teach special needs kids. I'd like a government who will make sure they are protected and taken care of. We have elderly parents who worked hard their whole life. We would like them to age without worrying if they can eat. My house is worth a fraction of what I paid for it, although we aren't under water (yet). Maybe there is some commonality with OWS within that 1%??
You started a great thread. 1%, disturbingly, is a misnomer. Really, only a fraction of that runs the show: Who's bought, who's sold, who controls the market, lends to prey, or blindly chases quant formulas to speculate in electronic currency. Which puts even the Yankee dollar at risk.
With media-induced somnambulism all around, I'm surprised Americans from every stratum are waking up this soon. I admire those who see where the wind blows before they even feel the pinch. Go to Zuccotti Park and stand up for your place in the symbolic 99%. Teacher, soldier, techie, even if executive--you ARE the 99%.
Discount any static you may get from slow learners. It comes with the territory. Remember, they've received static themselves.
The 99% needs the 99%. Top and bottom.
I personally think demonizing the 1% is contradictory to the concept of true democracy, and hypocritical to the message of this movement. I think it's a waste of energy, a diversion into an old trap under a new guise. Hate for fellow men and women will not magically create a better, more understanding, more empathetic world. It just won't. The key is to understand the nature of those we disagree with, and to foster understanding in kind; after that vital step, it's much easier to convince a Wall Streeter to live a less lavish lifestyle for the benefit of another, and it's much easier for the man ringing up the groceries at the checkout line to understand the fear of failing one's children, the pride in someone's father's eyes knowing his son or daughter achieved some great accomplishment that he never could (and why can't that in the future be something benefiting another human being, or progressing the species through knowledge, culture, etc., instead of outwitting and outworking others to land that six figure job? This is a societal norm we are all responsible for creating!), the insecurity of being poor and homeless or wasted and abused like that other guy, the fear of being rejected by one's successful peers, at being laughed at for being poor, at being lesser (again, something we have taught each other - a man is less if he makes less)? We all have fears and pain, and they drive us toward specific actions, usually in conjunction with our unique perspectives and circumstances. If we can just empathize with each other - even those so-called demons of Wall Street - this will be a huge first step. I'm not saying sit back and do nothing - I'm saying do more. Put your hearts on the line for this, not just your backbone and your wallets and your time.
Boy, what a pulpit stand that was.. :D Going to get some sleep now, before I really start pontificating... But I do mean it. Empathy and responsibility are the hardest part of this ideal, and the most critical.
It wasn't pontificating. It was a heartfelt response. Thank you and I agree. Something went badly wrong when we started judging people by the money they make. Always an interesting study of people's responses when they ask what I do and when they ask my husband what he does. BTW, I've been reading all of your responses aloud to my family. You have additional converts because of the generosity of your time and patience answering all our questions. Gotta get to bed. School starts early and the train leaves even earlier. Thanks again.
Statistical definition of the 1%: income greater than $348,000.
Ha! I asked the same thing on the live stream chat. I annoyed a lot of people. I also got several different answers:
Since the 99% all have an equal voice, I was left wondering which one was truest to the majority vote. I dropped it, since I was about to get banned - I was told by channel moderators that dissenting voices (to the OWS) and 'trolling' such as asking questions like that was not allowed. I mentioned the democracy thing, but that was pressing my luck :D I will say, though, that the mods do a great job moderating the chat. At the time, there were 12,000 (!) people on the channel.
Dissenting voices are not only allowed, but welcomed, as far as I can tell--as long as there's no anger or incivility. And just so you know, there's been an inordinate amount of that!
The point isn't a literal "cutoff" based on income, so much as a willingness to embrace the need for dramatic change in the system that makes it much more equitable. There are vast differences in opinion on how to "get there" and what that means, specifically, but that's a discussion that needs to be had anyway.
If you're wondering about the democratic process that #OWS is embracing, see links below.
Peace.
Groobiecat
[ There's an #OWS election process here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/ ]
[ There's a draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ ]
Yeah, there has definitely been 'incivility'. I watched a guy chat that he would without hesitation beat a man's head in, and his family, because he made a lot of money and was contending some of the ideas. Wow, I thought, that's a real turnoff, just the kind of people who feed on anger and stir up a mob into a riot. So I understand the desire to relegate trolls to the back of the bus. It's too high a risk, though, I think, in this movement. I think what is important is maintaining integrity, looking courageously at all the facts and altering course if they suggest the need to, setting goals based on the collective voice of everyone, including the 1% (and nothing to fear on this changing the course to their favor, if they are truly that much in the minority, right?)...
A lot of people who begin movements, parties, organizations, religions, etc. fall into the trap of remaining static, and when facts arise that suggest their direction is wrong, because they have spent too long going in one direction, they, either from fear or stubborn narrow mindedness, continue on the path towards the cliff edge. I'm wondering if this movement will learn that only a system built to be dynamic, and built on 100% integrity in its values, will be able to truly negotiate the needed turns in the dark. And anything built by humans, it's in the dark - we can't ever see the whole picture until we see everyone's perspective. It has to be flexible, and change, reassessment, and honesty (especially to oneself), have to be a foundation of the culture for it to become anything more than yet another party.
I'm here for the people, not the parties :)
Good points all around. Flexibility--and maintaining a high standard--are key. Modeling behavior is important too, although it's more of a challenge than not, sometimes....
In terms of specifics, a lot of integrity can be maintained through meticulous (as much as possible) attention to transparency regarding decision making. I'd like to see the camera right up there with the GA meetings, and they should definitely be included (via youtube) throughout the delegate selection process.
Yeah - I can't actually catch one of these assemblies, but that's what I would be most interested in seeing, not attention grabbing every time a cop walks over someone's shadow. That's less important than what is being discussed in the assemblies. Where is the real action, the real change? What are the proposals, what are people actually saying, how are people behaving, what ideas are coming out, how are they being acted on, etc.
Well, if you have people on the ground, might be something to push. I don't know if the GA knows how incredibly important it is for a) full transparency for the external world, and b) to generate even more support and interest around the world.
I know there's a lot on their plate, but in every revolution, communication is always one of the highest priorities.
Peace.
www.groobiecat.blogspot.com
I read and waited for days before posting. I was under the impression that the whole movement was evolving and just beginning to define itself. Isn't asking questions part of the process (said the teacher)? I try to ignore the hateful responses, but it does ding the cause a bit. Thankfully, a majority of the posters seems really willing to spend a LOT of time answering endless questions.
Yes, yes, and yes. I'm with Anonymous. Taking time to do as much as I can--without getting into digital fistfights. And btw, teachers rock. My wife is one.
They should be heralded and applauded, not torn down by crazies who think that they're somehow greedy and rich. It's truly amazing how demonized teachers are--especially by so many on the far right.
Cheers.
Groobiecat
I agree, I answer about 100 a day, I just can't keep up....Speaking of that, I have a paper to write.
Tell them I said you deserve an A. Thanks for answering.
It's so important not to discourage people looking to discuss these ideas. This is what true democracy is about. If we try to quell this, we risk becoming narrow sighted by cutting out a vast majority of the "99%" (you're not answering that many questions yet, right?) and suddenly this becomes another lopsided movement that only a small part of the populace agrees with, a movement trying to force its lopsided views on the rest of the people. If that happens, this whole thing fails. So I say ASK ON. KEEP QUESTIONING, KEEP THINKING FOR YOURSELVES, KEEP LOOKING FOR THE BEST PATH, THE TRUTH, THE FACTS. This is how a real solution will rise.
I agree! And I am answering questions from all sides (Even the paranoids). One of my threads has over 500 comments on it. It is hard to keep answering the same questions over and over. I wish this forum was more organized.
That's a good idea. It would be nice to have sub forums for specific topics, eg. economic ideas, FAQ forum (like what is the 1%?), occupy questions, etc. Then people who contend things can do so in the related forum, and there isn't this giant pigpile that makes reaching out to other people on a specific subject very difficult.
I'm working on a new site.
Awesome. I'm in. Yesterday I dealt with a guy who literally said he'd go and shoot his son's teacher if he found out he was teaching kids that gay people are okay. I tried to contact someone at #OWS, but to no avail. That guy should have had his account terminated immediately. Dunno if it happened or not...
O.o
Well for now, use this beta site.
OnlineOccupation.org
Hmm, yeah, didn't work. Still "GoDaddy" junk...
Exactly. Thanks. Will do. Cheers.
I just forwarxed that domain to the beta, so give it a bit
I also don't think that attitude represents everybody in these forums. There are some really level headed and clear minded, honest spoken people here. I almost wish I could meet some of them in person...
Well, I suggested that #OWS put together a "Forum of Similarities and Differences" to work through the issues that the movement--and the country--faces. That would be pretty progressive, in a non-political way.
But have no idea what's being considered and not.
Peace.
Groobiecat
[ There's an #OWS election process here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/ ]
[ There's a draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ ]
I'd say 1% is more of a 8 to 9 figure salary. I don't think an IT pro would fit in there.
If this is a scam site then I will spam useful posts to counter it! -pif-
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-we-must-end-the-fed-by-quadrawack-and-a-youtub/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/flat-tax-is-a-scam-fight-the-infiltrators-with-som/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-flat-tax-is-unfair/
Ha! I used your spam post! Nyah Nyah!
Also - How do I report the affliate ID?
Umm...not sure why you think my post is a spam post. I already posted an apology for a link I researched for days. Sorry (again). Just here for some info. Thanks.
plant. this is a spam post, do not go to the link, they make a killing on adds. do not reply, they use it to keep spaming. http://www.statshow.com/opensecrets.org
the open secrets one? i wiki-d it before i read any of it. Are you referring to my post as a spam post???
I keep posting Matt Taibbi videos (and articles) because he explains this so well: Matt Taibbi: The evolution of the Occupy Wall Street protest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI6PehFB1SI
Matt Taibbi: How Goldman Sachs Takes Your Money: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEhQrnKTQk0
These people took Matt Taibbi's article: "The Great American Bubble Machine" and set to video (it is GREAT): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEhQrnKTQk0 [IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME PLAY THIS 10 MINUTE VIDEO FIRST]
Then read the article: "The Great American Bubble Machine": http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405
Next, watch Matt Taibbi Explaining How Wall Street Works (TALF) [8:15]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9etlLzuMfM
Then read his article "The Real Housewives of Wall Street": http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-real-housewives-of-wall-street-look-whos-cashing-in-on-the-bailout-20110411
To see a list of Matt Taibbi's videos and articles all in one place go to: http://goldmanbanksters.com/heroes/matt-taibbi/
Are you sure?
I went back to check. The open secrets site is legit. Sorry if I posted a link...didn't know it wasn't allowed.
My story, your husband's bosses should be fired. I don't blame you for paying it, I blame you if you don't object to it in any form that doesn't jeopardize your family's well being.
If you're looking for a dollar amount, it's about a half-million/year. I don't think you'll get stoned to death - the people getting injured seem to be the protesters who annoy the cops into macing and beating them.
Even if you do, the question is whether you're acquiring that money honestly, or through exploitation.
way under that, as are a lot of ws people. I don't know if I feel better or not. Regardless, I'm happy to watch this movement grow and solidify.
It is the system that is the problem, not people like yourselves, but what we need is a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
I meant "buy them back"
Your combined income is well over 250k/year?
Well done.
Perhaps the 1% statement is a little off base. It's easier to say 1% than .1% who own most of the country.
"While households in the top 1.5% of households had incomes exceeding $250,000, 443% above the national median, their incomes were still 2200% lower than those of the top .01% of households. One can therefore conclude that almost any household, even those with incomes of $250,000 annually are poor when compared to the top .1%, who in turn are poor compared to the top 0.000267%, the top 400 taxpaying households."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluence_in_the_United_States
Financial Wealth
Top 1 percent ---Next 19 percent Bottom 80 percent
1983 -----42.9% ------48.4% ---------------8.7%
1989 ----- 46.9% -----46.5% -------------- 6.6%
1992 ------45.6%---- 46.7%---------------- 7.7%
1995 ------47.2% ----45.9% ---------------7.0%
1998------ 47.3%---- 43.6%--------------- 9.1%
2001 ------39.7%---- 51.5%--------------- 8.7%
2004 ------42.2%---- 50.3% ---------------7.5%
2007 ------42.7%---- 50.3%--------------- 7.0%
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
It is mostly corporate executives who comprise the top 1%. I think Wall Street bankers are extremely overpaid relative to the services they provide--some of which are affirmatively harmful--but by and large ire is directed to the people who are in charge of the financial industry.
The vast majority of protesters just want a fair system, which means a free market system. What we have today is not a free market, but a rigged market where if you donate big bucks to both parties you get a bailout with the peoples tax money. The media won't tell you that though. They want the American people to think that we are communists or socialists. No, we just hate government corruption.
Welcome to the 99%!
it's probably more like the 0.005%
The real problem is the 0.01%. They don't work for a living. Hence, I don't see the sense in trying to stick it to people like you in taxes.
The difference is between people who WORK for a living (ie, have a w-2 form) and those who get their income from capital gains. Yes? As I said, we don't mind paying more if it actually ends up where it is needed. I just can't stand handing it over to those asshats in washington.
We definitely should not allow people who have huge sums of money to invest in other people's business ventures. Then the businesses might get successful, they might create jobs and more wealth. No, we don't want that. We'd rather have them hold their money in a bank account or go sit on it on the cayman islands. OUTLAW INVESTING!
The basic problem I see with raising taxes is not only that those taxes always get transferred to the middle class, but - at this point, how can anyone trust the government to manage revenues responsibly? Seriously? Anyone? Who is going to defend our brave leaders?
Taxes get transferred to the middle class?
I say that because the super-rich - who are the ones this great movement are purportedly targeting - have numerous ways of evading said taxes and typically do not have an income per se. As well, corporate taxes get transferred into the cost of goods and services - therefore we will end up paying them anyhow. Unless ofcourse we boycott the corporations, which is a very good idea. However it is somewhat difficult to put in to practice.
We should definitely stay away from anything that is difficult. Isn't that the American Dream?
I'm saying that sound money is the answer (one of them). Geez, last time I brought that apparently touchy subject up, I got lambasted by someone on the left who claimed I was ignorant and spreading lies.
This isn't an attack on the rich. There is nothing wrong with being rich. There is a problem with being rich and stealing from the poor. There is a problem with few people controlling the wealth, and to that end there is a problem when those who control the wealth are not helping their country and society progress.
David Walker, former US Comptroller General and chief of the GAO, warned before the 2004 election that if large economic changes were not made, by 2009 the United States and its taxpayers would not be able to afford the interest payments on the national debt. A study authorized by the US Treasury in 2001 found that in order to keep servicing the debt at its current rate of growth, by 2013 income taxes would need to be raised to 65%. If the United States cannot afford to pay the interest on its debts, that would be the final stage of economic collapse and hence result in a total textbook bankruptcy. The systematic crisis would in turn spread to the rest of the world.
How did this happen? Why is the US national debt $14,819,350,000+? Of the 203 countries in the world today, only four (!) do not owe others money. The collective external debt of all the governments in the world is now above 40 trillion dollars and this number doesn’t include the massive about of household debt in each country.
The whole world is basically bankrupt. But how? How can the world as a whole owe money to itself? Obviously, it’s all nonsense. There is no such thing as ‘money’. There are only planetary resources, human labor and human ingenuity. The monetary system regulated by Federal Reserve is nothing more than a game… and an outdated and dysfunctional one at that. Those in positions of social power alter the rules of the game, at will. The nature of those rules is guided by the same competitive, distorted mentalities that are used in everyday “monetary” life, only this time the game is rigged at its root to favor those who run the show. For example, if you have 1 million dollars and put it into a CD at 5% interest, you are going to generate $50,000 a year simply for that deposit. You are making money off of money itself… paper being made from other paper … nothing more - no invention - no contribution to society – no nothing. That being denoted, if you are a lower to middle class person, who is limited in funds, and must get interest based loans to buy your home or use credit cards, then you are paying interest to the bank, which the bank is then using, in theory, to pay the person’s return with the 5% CD! Not only is this equation outrageously offensive due to the use of usury (interest) to ‘steal from the poor and give to the rich’, but it also perpetuates class stratification by its very design, keeping the lower classes poor, under the constant burden of debt, while keeping the upper classes rich, with the means to turn excess money into more money, with no labor. That reality aside, there are other games in the system which have worked for decades, but are just now starting to bloom into the inevitable mathematic disasters that should have been anticipated 100 years ago. The point is, our system is broken. Simple policy change will not solve our debt problem. We need to alter the governmental paradigm if we wish to repay our debt. We need to end the Federal Reserve Board.
This is not a liberal or conservative issue. This is a matter of upholding the Constitution. Congress gave over the power of the purse in 1913 to a quasi-public-private bank called the Federal Reserve which manipulates global currencies. This is wholeheartedly unconstitutional, and at this point it's become immoral.
Are you filling politician pockets with cash? Are you sending business overseas? Are you profiting off our blood and sweat? If so, then you already know the answer to your question. If not, welcome to the 99%.
What blood & sweat? Please share your story. It will help illustrate the issue.
Just an expression on that part. It doesn't take PHD to figure out what this movement is about. Sure some are firm 99% VRS 1% and draw a salary line. Your either above it or below it. But that's not what this is about at all, nor why most of us are here. It's about the influence money has on government and it's choices. It's how the corporations and banking industries are destroying America yet they go unpunished and still get rewarded for it. Companies start here to get-rich then reward us by moving to Mexico, whatever, then continue to sell here. Nobody likes being used. Nobody.
That was pretty clear. Thanks!
And anyone who support the corporations and governments who do this, I suppose that would make them accomplices with injustice, no?
There is a difference between support and employment. We all need to live. The more money we make the better we live. So I don't blame anyone that works on wall Street. I DO blame anyone taking risky Wall Street bets, as that is what started the great depression, and as we say in the legal field, that is reckless and they should be charged with involuntary economy-slaughter.
The difference is only in degree. Injustice is still perpetuated.
I'm sure I could find injustice of all kinds in employers for over half of Americans. Should we change or motto to: just under 50%?
Then let's not make the cause about "injustice", ok? Let's make it about "injustice we choose to get upset about". Sound fair?
Actually, no, it does not sound fair. It sounds correct. As that is what OWS is all about.
Besides. This IT professional is just doing his job. Not all corporations or aspects of Wall Street are evil. And even the evil ones have some sectors that do help people. So we can't judge him. Especially if they want to help.
rationalize it however you want. without a getaway driver, the bank robber is just standing on the curb with sacks of cash.
So I guess you don't buy things or see movies made by any company that's on the stock exchange?
I do buy as much locally, independently, and non-corporate as I can. It's a difficult thing to do in our society, which leads back to the problem. How is occupy wall st addressing this? It isn't.
Pump gas and you work for Big Oil. All serfs gotta live.
Who are you fucking over and exploiting if you pump gas? (Besides good ol' mother earth.)
Think you miss the point. I'm addressing the false logic of the reply above me.
Ever hear of the bridge-and-tunnel crowd? Thousands commute to work on Wall Street from NJ and the five boroughs. Single mothers, minorities, etc. No different than people all across America working in a corporate society. Some rise high. Do they really pull the strings? No. Who does? LESS than 1%.
Two months ago, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), on page 131 of GAO Report No. GAO-11-696, said our Government gave $16 trillion to the banks. (Who finagled these hand-outs? Well, there they are, in the news--as our leaders, not as crooks.) That amount would have given $50 thousand to every U.S. citizen. Now imagine THAT economy.
I agree with your analysis of a few of the problems. So then you'd have to explain how marching around the streets is addressing this?
It stimulates dialogue among strangers--in public, in cyberspace, and in media--and gives people hope that they have a voice. If people weren't marching around under a broad banner, this forum would be lifeless.
Ok, people are talking now. Mission accomplished.
If only. Mission begun. I don't think manana will abort it. Someone said game theory says this will play itself out. The wild card is the human spirit. Nice talking with you. Later.
Yes, but most of America doesn't know the details of the coruption. Such as how deep it goes and who commits the crimes. They need jobs, we have enough homeless people, you expect people to give up a job in this economy because the CEO is a deuche?
As for your metaphor. The bank robber has legs, he can run on his own.
Only ones who are concerned with what is real and what is right. The others should work their corporate jobs and then go protest in a public park.
I don't think being in the 1% income bracket makes one bad. In fact, I think a wealthy person can do more good than a government if that person tries, because they cut out the red tape and execute their vision, making their dollars go a long way.
That is pretty nasty that your husband is required to donate. How is that legal!?
I posted below that it isn't "required", but "suggested" that you give. In a we-know-this-isn't-optional kind of way. Same thing when the boss wants to buy a table at a political function. We've gotten out of those, thank god. So, instead of saying the 1% (bc I know people in that 1% who actually agree with you but feel demonized).
I see. Do they have some way to check?
Relatedly, I found out today that an employer can fire you for your political affiliations. You're protected from getting fired for racial reasons, but if you have the wrong bumper sticker, they can kick you out!
wtf? I guess they will continue to get our $18 a month (that's our small protest)
Good post. I've been trying to tell people that labeling an entire group of people as "such and such" or holding "such and such" views is illogical. You cannot possibly know what an entire group of people are like or what views they hold. That's why I can't understand when 1%ers or conservatives shit on the whole movement and label people as "lazy hippies". This is exceedingly ignorant and childish. At the same time, when OWSers label all rich people as evil or having made their money in some nefarious way it is also counter productive, ignorant, and just really a stupid thing to say. There is no way to know that every rich person is evil. Someone just started a thread telling liberals not to screw up the movement with this behavior. I agree. We should take a more neutral position that everyone can agree on such as holding the CRIMINALS on wall street accountable and more importantly, changing the crooked policies of the government with regard to regulating the financial sector and campaign finance. These things are in desperate need of reform. I do also think we need to take a look at our economic model and think of alternatives. How can it be that the most profitable industry (financial services) is an industry which actually produces nothing. This is a setup for failure. Although, as Ron Paul says, we never had true capitalism because it's been coorporatism since day one.
It's not "illogical" to pick a group and demonize them, it's a lot worse than that. An "us-versus-them" mentality is a mark of extremism. Pat Robertson thinks that if you don't agree with him, the you must work for Satan. Osamaa bin Laden's world view worked the same way. Hitler singled out a group of people and blamed them for society's ills. There are people on the extreme right who spend their entire lives looking for evidence of the communist boogeyman, constantly conspiring to indoctrinate their children.
This movement has that same mentality at its core. Singling out a group and blaming them for all of society's ills. It's a way to dodge responsibility. If all of "our" problems are "their" fault, then it means that we don't have to change anything about ourselves.
Don't forget that the economy crashed in 2007/2008 partly because the 99% went out and bought a bunch of things that they couldn't afford. It was everybody's fault.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is my understanding of the financial crisis: Financial services companies held far too many investments in mortgage backed securities, dispersed throughout the secondary market. In a true loan scenario, the issuer of the loan hedges his bets by checking the borrowers credit (ability to pay back the loan). Keep in mind that the financiers who are offering the loans are the ones who are "in the know" about the risks and possible gains when lending. The reason for companies extending mortgage loans which were too good to be true was because they knew that they would make their profits repackaging the loan(s)-this is an important distinction... into some kind of financial services product (security)...and then repackaging it again into incredibly complex products called derivatives, which nobody fully understands. So basically these companies bought MASSIVE amounts of securities on the margin (with borrowed money)...in a word, legalized gambling.
There is no way, that if these companies hedged their bets with minimized risk counting on the consumer to pay the loans back and checking their credit and so forth that...listen now...that these companies would implode sucking a number tantamount to 20 percent of the national GDP out of the markets. No individual consumer acts on his own to borrow money. The institutions who lend it also hold equal responsibility to act responsibly, since after all, the growth of the GDP depends on it, as do all Americans depend on the growth of the GDP for REAL LIFE expenses. Actually, the institutions who lend it hold MORE responsibility since they actually KNOW what they're putting on the line. Consumers don't understand economics. They don't expect a reputable bank like Bank of America to be giving them a mortgage contract tantamount to throwing all their money down on "black" on the roulette wheel. That's not what a mortgage contract is supposed to be. Granted, they should have had the sensibility to know "if it's too good to be true...it probably is." But to say that it was "everybody's" fault is not really fair.
Buying a house you can't afford is timid compared to buying extremely risky, repackaged securities, the original documents for which no one knows where they are, ON THE MARGIN, with a value of up to 300 percent more than the worth of your ENTIRE COMPANY. AND! The ratings agencies KNOWINGLY committed insider trading by marking these securities AAA when they KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON because they were on the take!!!! So everybody's fault? I think perhaps some are guiltier than others. And let us not forget that NOBODY has been held accountable for the crimes of insider trading, and issuing securities without actually handling the paperwork (which is illegal). And don't even get me started on the government, who allowed these things to happen by axing regulation and then after the companies acted a damn fool and gambled with the wealth of the nation, the government has done NOTHING to change the way things are done! Everybody's fault? Please. We elect officials who are supposed to understand how to run a country so we don't have to go to our 9 to 5s and then tell them how to not be complete morons when we get home. Oh wait, they're on the take too. This whole system is a travesty of Democracy. It's a disgrace and we have every goddamn right to be furious.
A speculative bubble built up and burst because of everybody's greed. It was so devastating because of how much of "our" money was involved in that bubble. All of "our" money was in it because we were all greedy too.
your salaries are the money that you corporate fools steal out of pockets. get your thick skull around that corporate.
Military personnel are fighting to keep their vote in Colorado while overseas. Scores of banking analysts and associates (and IT staff, as you must know) are losing their jobs as the 1% gets greedier. You are the 99%.
Try to forgive cardboard signs that may flaunt words like "tourists" and "bourgeois." Some occupiers are just still learning how to think for themselves without divisive rhetoric. You won't be stoned to death. If you see what I've seen, you'll be thrilled.
I'm not sure if you have read the other posts. People have mentioned again and again, that we don't hate the 1%. We have seen that few power grabbers and dishonest/corrupt rich people are destroying the country by using loopholes in our democracy. We want to correct this unfair system.
Here's a link, which gives a pretty realistic picture of the wealthy in this country.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/investment_manager.html
As the expert clearly states, it's the 0.1% who basically have too much power and they tend to cause problems in our country.
If you visit Zucotti park, I have to warn you that you will see a lot of hippies and some people who are there just to make some money from you. Don't give cash to anybody who asks around there. Donate it directly to some good charity.
God bless.
I lived in Seattle. Hippies don't scare me. Do you suggest donating goods instead? Is there a list of requests by the organization instead of individuals?
And I've spent the last 4 days reading through the forum and following other protests in the US. I guess I've seen mixed messages about the 1%, but no mixed messages about hating WS. We're not 1%, but we're WS. Thanks for taking the time (everyone) to answer.
No need to worry ! We are against wallstreet as they represent the capitalistic rich and greed in this country.
"Do you suggest donating goods instead ?" I'm not sure. Food may be a good idea.
I request you to actively participate in your local election to elect an honest senator/congressman. Also to overthrow corporate person-hood status.
If we can find any. If you look at what it costs to run an election, it is clear that no average joe citizen can afford a campaign. I keep thinking we should be rattling the gates in Washington demanding increased regulation, etc. but then...what's their motivation to change? And WS won't change their ways without Washington forcing them. What to do, what to do?
I am a liberal and let me tell you, more regulation = increased bureaucracy = more corruption. No use of more regulation.
First thing we need to do as I said before is end unlimited corporate donations for politicians or their campaigns. Reduce the size of Federal government and Abolish the Federal Income taxes and let the states collect income taxes. The money needed to run the Federal government, will be paid as expense by the states based on which state needs Federal govt services.
As long as Federal govt collects a lot of money, US government will keep spending and causing destruction by means of unnecessary wars around the world. By the way, I believe these wars are instigated by Military Industries in the US for their profit with nexus of political leadership.
The role of the Federal government is to defend the country and not invade some other country and attack them!
Many of the service members who are sent off to fight in these wars agree with you. They just aren't allowed to say so... The corporate donations are unbelievable. Weren't they restricted at one point in time?
Now there are new loop holes. Google search for Citizen united case.
If you watch Colbert Report, he explains all these loop holes in his show.
Your husband is not required to donate money every year to the candidate suggested by your bosses. On the contrary, your teacher's union takes dues out of your paycheck and donates those dues to Democratic Party candidates without even giving you an opt-out.
Actually, I teach at a non-union independent school. You are right..he isn't required to donate...it is "suggested." Strongly suggested. Ie, How much to you want to give and here is the form. I don't know if that is a bank-wide practice or just his previous department. I think it was called a PAC deduction, but I will check.
And of course, the question always is..what happens if you don't donate. We were too worried about the consequences. Two kids in college, mortgage, etc.