Forum Post: Once More For The Record: 400 Americans Own More Than 1/2 Of The American Population Combined
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 18, 2012, 2:48 a.m. EST by GypsyKing
(8708)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Anyone who reads this and still can't understand what we are protesting is as thick as a brick.
How much suffering, disillusionment and frustration are represented in these numbers? How many broken marriges, how much alcoholism and drug addiction are represented by these numbers? How much homelessness and despair?
It continues to shock me that figures like this (especially when they're bright into human terms the way you have done here) do not shock more people awake in the U.S. if knowing that 400 people T the top own as much as the entire bottom half of population in terms of wealth doesn't do it, what will? Seriously.
Most people don't know. And if they hear this, they don't believe it. And if they try to believe it, they can't get their heads around it.
And a lot of people don't want to get THAT angry. I'm serious. I know a lot of people who I talk to who say "I just can't think about that because it makes me SO angry and then I don't know what to do about it".
People hate feeling helpless.
I agree, Nordic. A lot of people just can't and won't face the fact that their nation has let them down.
I guess it depends on how you view it. I would like to go into the Coast Guard Academy and get an advanced law degree. Right now I'm planning on taking a JTED law class. The eventual point would be to run for Congress and build up enough public attention towards the extras that Congress and the Senate get such as their pensions, special healthcare, and their special retirement plan. Although sadly that on its own would be a life long career.
I don't know. It might work out for you. Change is a coming.
Finger's crossed.
Mine too.
I know. I know people who absolutely refuse to form an opinion, because they don't want to go there. Passive.
Great point
You don't have to feel helpless if you do something about it. That is a piss poor reason for doing nothing.
Most people don't have the first idea what to do.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” - Upton Sinclair
I understand that but there has to be a point.
I think many Americans think it is unpatriotic to be angry with any aspect of our great nation.
Anyone read the constitution recently? Or maybe the bill of rights?
No. They just live with a blind nationalism.
I declare that this is also a piss poor reason.
I agree. But what to do about it? Phony nationalism breeds apathy.
News stations seen by many people could be an option. But you have to have viable information and present it in a way that will not insult the general public or do so as little as possible. I don't know what happened here with the spacing.
Yes. Education is vital, and you're right, how to do it would be critical.
Yeah. The spacing is weird. I've seen that happen a few times.
Alright good to know it isn't my computer. Thats really all I can think of. That's how it should always be done. Direct honest information coming from a politician would be quite refreshing.
Good luck with that, lol!
Well I may be the first. Keep the look out for me in the next 20 years. I may not be popular with the other politicians but if I get the public to pressure them then they'll do anything eventually.
Okay. Are you a politician in training?
I think we need to refine our argument. People seem to think OWS is against anyone that has more money than someone else, or at least our detractors want to spin it that way. When, in reality, it is really the top 10% of the 1% that we have a beef with. We live in a plutocracy and people don't realize this. We are not against people accumulating wealth but we want to be sure that everyone has enough. This country has enough wealth that there should be absolutely no poverty. Whatever happened to the social contract and the Constitution that states that the government should promote the general welfare of the American people?
Exactly.
Completely agree. 1000%
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There never was a social contract in which the Constitution stated that the government would promote the general welfare of the American people as individuals. Period. Anything you say to that effect is purely interpretation and not fact.
I know. I find the level of apathy in this country to be absolutely astounding.
This is a great post, GypsyKing. I was shocked when I first heard that the Walton family has equal wealth to the bottom 30% of Americans. Apathy abounds, but we should continue getting the word out. You are doing good work summing it up so succinctly.
"Walton family has equal wealth to the bottom 30% of Americans.". That sentence by itself should run chills down the back of every American.
Exactly, the rising. Why don't people see the evil in this?
I suppose they think they they somehow have a chance to BE the Waltons OR they're so engrossed in cable TV that try can't be bothered. I believe people are walking up though. We have a fighting chance here if we attract and retain support of middle America by sticking with nonviolence and looking like middle America as we protest. Just tactically smart in my view.
Yes. All true. People don't want to give up the American dream of becoming like Bill Gates or the Walton's. Personally, I think that is more of a nightmare.
I want to remain non-violent also. It's smart as you say, as well as the right thing to do.
The problem isn't the message, it's the messenger. I think the general public is aware, anxious to support something. Just not this mess.
Democracy is messy. You want a clean neat orderly system? Try fascism. Everybody gets in line there, just like the Republican "mavericks" are going to get in line behind Mitt.
Right. Nevermind having real leadership, an effective organization, goals or message. What do we need any of that for when we have anarchy. Because that always works.
You don't understand what we have, and it's clearly driving you crazy, or you wouldn't even be here.
I understand it has potential. Not in its current form. It's not making me crazy, so much as a little bit sad. But, no mind. It's like spitting in the wind here. Carry on.
We will, thanks.
It's really something that people are actually talking about the problems, rather than assuming that someone else will fix everything.
The fact that SOPA just got put away for another day is a strong indication that Americans are realising that they still have a voice; still have some control over their own destiny.
Hang in there. The world is not just watching. They are hoping you keep this ball rolling.
We'll damn well do that or face the consequences!
It is incredible
It continues to shock the 99% that OWS think that hyperbolic accusations and claims SHOULD be viewed as anything other than that.
Is there a list of these 400 people I can check out? I know it's true, but I'm just curious as to who's on the list.
Politifact says the number 400 and half the wealth is 100% true.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/10/michael-moore/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
Well, of all places, a list is available through Forbes Magazine. It's been a long standing tradition with them to publish the list. It will be interesting to see if they go on doing so. I'm sorry I don't have that link right now, but I'm sure you could jus Google - Forbes top 400 and it would come up.
Yes thank you. Adding Forbes to the search made it pop right up.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/
Thanks for posting it!
lots
If you had statistics for all that stuff, you wouldn't ask those questions. If there are not stats, there is no proof, and I get to make up the numbers I suspect correlate just like you do. :-)
OWS owns more than half of the hyperbolic suspicions and accusations of the American population combined!!!!!
http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/10/michael-moore/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
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Statistics like the 80% figure you quoted, as not caring who owns the resources and wealth in America? What unmitigated BS! Like I said, you should be called justthelies.
Hey, I gave you 19% that DO.....which is pretty much the percentage of Americans who are "liberals"...plus the 1%=20% of the population. I'm not married to that number at all.
How many people, what percentage of the American public do YOU think are ignoring the OWS message/movement currently and WHY do you think they are doing it?
There is enough land, wood, and food for all people in America to have homes and food and to give homes and food to the people of Canada and Mexico 3 times over. We are kept poor and dumb so we will not think about the unfairness of the situation. They divide us from the Mexicans and Latin America using race and language to get us to look down on our neighbors instead of helping them and ourselves. Technology that could provide free energy is suppressed. Americans have been fined for harvesting rain water.
They really do see us as, and use us as, their slaves. I can't think of any other appropriate word. I think of us as the first generation to be enslaved without the use of chains.
Besiege them, their families and all of their allies, lackeys and pundits. Do not continue to allow safety to those who oppress you.
The bad news: If you don't use it, you lose it. That is what has happened to our democracy. Big Money picked it up and used it against us for their exclusive benefit, with phenomenal success. We got swindled.
The good news: Every election there is a possibility that We The People will vote for our best interest, instead of theirs. That's why they spend so much money, so that we won't. We have to quit protesting our political system and embrace and engage it. Our democracy was setup by our forefathers to fight this kind of feudalistic tyranny, but we have to use it to make it work, BY VOTING!
The MSM still says they don't know what we're protesting, or that our message is "unfocused," or whatever. Un-f--king believable!
That is now a matter of intentional distortion.
Private issuance and regulation of our credit and currency is the root cause of all our many problems. Over time whoever controls the currency will control the nation.
Names we want names. we could send them letters.
They can't make their usual lies up about this clear income inequality we all feel in this country. We are aware and ready to fight long and hard to get back our American Dream.
Yes, they will belittle us, they will say we lack numbers, they will say we lack cohesion, they will say we're all just "dirty hippes," and they will say these things because they're scared of the potential power our central conclusions represent. The more they do these things, the more we can know that they take us seriously.
I propose we build a new capitol building, (my idea is in the center of continental USA so that the greatest number of people can get to it), separate from corporate/banking oligarchical wall st EMPIRE. a PEOPLES REPUBLIC capitol. of by and for WE THE PEOPLE. let it be open to all and encourage all to come participate in the political process. we can have special districts for the artists, lawyers, builders, scientists, spirtual leaders of our great nation, keep everything organized but always united, have national GAs very often and broadcast them globally, show the world what democracy looks like. we elect defenders who will ACTUALLY protect and serve US, not big money, let us see to it once and for all that we draw our power from PEOPLE, NOT money. make food, shelter, education, recreation BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, once and for good. free ourselves from the empire! no more FAKE division of democrats and republicans, its all one system. a republic of individuals responsible for asserting the will of the people, and the only way they keep their power is by WE THE PEOPLE THE DEMOCRACY, channeling our voice and power into them, so that we do not have to spend all our days screaming and voting and doing "politics". you get just ONE dollarl from every american citizen and you have 300 million dollars to start, and we all know who can afford to contribute more than a buck. this movement is largely about unity, so i say we unite, and biuld something to SOLIDIFY our role as a voice for WE THE PEOPLE.
Very interesting ideas, but I think now the movement has moved beyond the purely abstract idea phase to the "how do we implement our goals" phase. Now we really need to concentrate on concrete means to achieve the power necessary to make our goals a reality. Good ideas though, and thanks for your support! Keep the ideas coming, but lets try to direct our thinking more towards concrete tactics . . . Just my point of view at this stage.
link?
What I have come to realize is that the Occupy movement and the anger and frustration toward the government and path of the United States is generally expressed by the younger generations.
We have unluckily inherited a faulty and corrupt system from our preceding generations and are now stuck to clean up the mess ourselves, simply for the sake of our own future.
What makes matters worse is that those who let us get into such a situation do not understand the mess they have made.
We are angry, we are becoming informed, and they believe that we are utterly ridiculous.
The older generation of Americans need to realize that their political actions effect this younger generations much more than their own. Every voter takes their self in the here and no into consideration, and does not look far down the road.
Politics are taking a shift from the left-vs-right to the young-vs-old. Unfortunately, there is much left for us to achieve and those who do not support our efforts only further hurt our future.
Please try to remember that there are older people who agree with you. I turn 50 this year, and I have always been against the corporate system, and have paid a high price for it.
During the course of my lifetime, America has been prosperous enough that most people simply weren't interested in a message based on ideology. As long as they were doing well they didn't really care if democracy was being eroded in front of their eyes, or that our forign policy was becoming increasingly totalitarian. But a lot of us really tried.
I think this movement won't go away, because to many people are now cut out of any avenue towards a better life. But I must add this caviot: you can't stop there, at getting a share of the pie, or you will find yourself in middle-age trying to justify your investment in a still corrupt status quo, just as the WWII generation did to the radicals of the 60's, and the boomer generation is now doing to you.
Which half of the population is owned? Did they get a certificate of ownership with their purchase?
Your terminology is a bit, no make that a lot over the top. It's true times are tough and we may actually be forced to work in jobs we may not want to work but the economy has and always will cycle between times of prosperity, recession, and depression.
The fools dream of a utopian society isn't a new dream it's been around for as long as anyone can remember, it just isn't obtainable. It's not obtainable for you or any of the rest of nature that competes for food, water, and shelter.
I suppose it takes all types to make the world go around though so those that have this unrealistic utopian view of the world have their place in the real world too.
Current wages for half of the population amount to slavery, whether we like to admit it or not.
These 400 people are Bill Gates, Waltons, ETC ETC and the movie stars and singers you just love. Yet you buy, use, and consume their products every day. Did Bill Gates make you buy a computer or upgrade your operating system? Did Oprah make you watch her show and consume her products? Does Justin Bieber who has a net worth of 85million make you buy his songs or force you to go to his concerts? Let me help you with this NO NO NO and NO. Everyone has willfully bought these products on their own and made these people rich and now you want to take it back or make them pay it to the government.
You apparently either don't know or won't admit that there is such a thing as a monopoly. Of course a very few people in a monopolistic sytem are going to benefit at the exclusion of millions of others. When I was a kid most American businesses were family owned private business. Now by far the largest percent of business in America is controlled by a single intertangeled corporate conglomerate. Of course we are forced to do business with this monstrous conglomerate. It owns so much that interacting with it is inevitable. What does that prove? absolutely nothing.
Read what inthe1percent wrote. You see he is right! We are responsible for making the ultra rich who they are.
You want to put an end to it? Start paying a little more money for your goods and support the local businesses and redistribute the wealth via our capitalistic society. Stop buying tickets for sporting events, concerts, movies and making multimillionaires out of people that in the big picture contribute nothing more then entertainment as compared to doctors, firemen, police, farmers and so on and so forth. We have determined that those with all the money deserve all the money because we continue to willingly hand it over to them. If you don't like the fact that the Waltons have so much money then stop shopping at Wal-Mart and shop at your local stores. It will cost you more money but it will also redistribute the wealth. A higher cost of living for all is the price that will be paid for restructuring our economy.
So as not to guilty of over simplifying things myself building local businesses up is only a part of the solution but an inevitable reality. There is a lot more to fixing this mess that is known as our economy but we have to start somewhere and this is a place we can all exercise our freedom of choice and start without all the bureaucratic red tape.
We finally agree on something. Your point proves nothing.
And I don't know when you were a kid, but I'd love to know who this "single entertangleled corporate conglomerate" is that you believe owns everything now.
Well, than you simply haven't looked at the list of companies, and their parent companies and their parent companies parent companies recently.
Save me the genealogy lesson-WHO lives at the top of that family tree?
Nobody, of course. That's the evil beauty of the corporate system, millions of victims and no one individual to point at as the criminal.
"Now by far the largest percent of business in America is controlled by a single intertangeled corporate conglomerate. Of course we are forced to do business with this monstrous conglomerate."
Sooooooooooooooooo this is just "prose" rather than actual fact then?
No, you seem to be unable to understand the corporate business model, which exists in order to deflect responsibility for it's actions and to hide the extent of it's wealth and control.
How about a Biblical solution, let’s have a “Jubilee” that’s where every 50 years all debit is wiped out. (Keeps the money changers from taking over the country.)
Good choice money changers or the rick perry crew.
Wow, that's a really interesting idea. I'll have to ponder the implications of that. But it would seem we''ll either have to shake down the responsible parties for getting us into this mess, or consider something equally drastic, like what you are suggesting
David Graeber, a sociologist and one of the founders of OWS, is a proponent of the debt jubilee. This is a fascinating interview with him where he goes over money and debt as far back as Ancient Sumer (Mesopotamia) and how debt forgiveness was used by rulers throughout history to prevent social breakdown.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/08/what-is-debt-%E2%80%93-an-interview-with-economic-anthropologist-david-graeber.html
Great! Thanks for the link!
Hey thanks for the link, and BTW least we forget, I AM ONE of the founders of OWS, as are YOU, WE don't lead: OUR IDEAS do.
No problem. All true, except for the fact that I think he coined "We are the 99%." I'm no where near as creative.
Point taken, on reread it was a bit preachy, I'd invite you to read my "Why am I a liberal", I noticed this trend in the 1980's and honed my skills discussing it with NRA, nuclear operators, a dozen or so at a time at PVNGS over about 20 years. Not to be bragging I just wish we would use the good stuff.
You speak in code. Where is your "Why am I a liberal?" Also, what is a PVNGS?
Sorry about that PVNGS = Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station, the short piece is here on the forum if you search "factsrfun" it should come up. Just a few words really, posted Dec 22. I'd love any comments you might have.
Okay. I still don't know what that nuclear stuff has to do with anything but I read your post, "Why am I a liberal?" I liked it. I, personally, am not a liberal because of my children, but I post here and do what I can because of my children. Any activism that comes out of me is for them and the younger generation who I find very impressive. (Although many on here like to disparage them.)
I like all of your ideas. We do need our economy to work for all of the people, not just a few, however hard that is to hear for the 1%. Capitalism for humanity. Is that too much to ask for?
The nuclear plant just happens to be where I spent a number of my working years. One characteristic of nuclear plant operators is that they are smart, like basketball players are tall; it’s a result of how they are selected. They also tend to be extremely conservative as a group, the two are not related. This allowed me to engage in verbal battles on a level I just don’t see on the airways and I do find that frustrating.
Okay, factsrfun. How did we get from David Graeber and why we are liberal to the airways? LOL!
It’s a discussion Beautiful that’s what we’re suppose to do :).
Okay. You are interesting, factsrfun.
Thank you for asking Beautiful, I will tend to be rather brief from time to time, it’s a tactic really, feeling out both your interest and level of knowledge at the same time, sorry about that.
(2001, 15% non-cut)
In the summer of 2000 George W Bush travels the country promising; “to lower the lowest tax rate to 10%”, the lowest tax rate at the time was 15% covering the first $27,050 (S), $45,200 (M), to 10%. Conservatives often pointed out that the Bush plan gave a 33% reduction to working class (15% to 10%) and only a 11.5% reduction (39.1% to 35%, he was fighting for more here) for those making over $300,000/yr. When the plan was passed a new tax rate of 10% had been created, but only covering the first $6,000 (S), $12,000 (M), resulting in a 7.2% reduction on the first $27,950 (S), and a 8.6% reduction on first $46,700 (M) both much less than the 11.5% reduction for the wealthy. This resulted in the number of tax brackets going from 5 to 6. None of the people who had cried for a “flat tax” with fewer tax brackets complained; none of the people who had for years championed the wonderful effects of marginal tax relief complained that most Americans wouldn’t be getting marginal tax relief. None of the “liberals” said anything. Coming back to that $300,000 level, given that we live in a time where one person stands to pick up 28 billion and the guy that painted his walls is picking up 200 million, 28 billion is a LOT more than 200 million and their both a lot more than $300,000 maybe the tax ladder could stand a few more rungs.
(Politics of envy)
Maybe starting in the 1970’s but picking up steam in the 1980’s the GOP started to divide Americas along class lines using the “politics of envy” to separate those that were lucky enough to have good paying union jobs from those that were not, this worked especially well in the south where “right to work” state interference prevented unions and employers from entering into certain contract clauses. This trend continues today in Wisconsin and is moving on to Arizona.
(had to put it here other wouldn't open)
Yes, the wealthy ran away with the tax cuts. Agree, the liberals let it happen. Yup, politics of envy is a convenient, yet specious argument.
Thank you, You seem to be a serious person good to see that on here.( I've been away personal matters). It would be nice to get some ideas to the people with microphones. Wish the 15% non-cut of 2001, and the poltics of envey that the GOP has ran against unions since the 80's.
You're enigmatic, factsrfun. "Wish the 15% non-cut of 2001, and the poltics of envey that the GOP has ran against unions since the 80's." What do you mean?
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It's my understanding that they really did this, at least as much as they really did any of the stuff in the Bible, I should check with one of the history experts before I start saying that though, wouldn’t want Fox news suing me for infringing on their turf, making up facts and all.
Jubilee is a Jewish law-directed at the House of Israel and the "land" which belongs to God. Good luck with that here in America.
We are in a "repeat" of the last Great Depression -- not to mention, "as caused by the very same forces, with the very same results".
http://billmoyers.com/content/lessons-on-democracy-from-woody-guthrie/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbulO_FB2ZI
So? Life is not fair, get over it.
Didn't Hitler say something like that? Or was it Tojo?
No I just said it...
Yeah, so did they.
Hitler also breathed air, should I not because he did?
It is the truth, life is not fair. You are only entitled to 3 things, life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Not a handout from the sucessful.
It is we that are giving a "handout" to the successful - that is if you are talking about the tiny band of overlords this movement is determined to check. They are the parasites, not the working people whom they prey upon.
I read this and see whiny, envious resentment. That and a skewed sense of fairness along with unrealistic expectation and a false sense of entitlement.
So do I! We need to get these over-entitled, over-privilaged corporate 1% types in line!
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Actually, your headline is missing a word. If you don't want your readers to think that 400 Americans have a huge collection of slaves, you should add the word "wealth" after the word "more".
This reminds me of a few funny ambiguous headlines taken from real newspapers:
I don't see anything ambiguous about it, thanks.
I know. If you could see the ambiguity, you would correct it.
It's only ambiguous if you are consciously trying to find a hyper-pedantic excuse for crticism.
No, it isn't. It's ambiguous because of the way you formulated your sentence. If you don't care about proper writing, that's fine. A lot of people refuse help because they fear criticism. That's nothing new.
Thanks, but the word 'wealth' is unnecessary after the word 'more.' Sometimes one must omit unnecessary words at the sacrifice of perfect grammatical conformity, in order to make a line of prose stronger. In fact, the art of prose is the art of omission; of knowing what can be omitted while still conveying a point unambiguously. We will just have to agree to disagree there.
Furthermore, I am making a double entendre on the word 'own' that you may have missed.
The word "combined", acts as a qualifier.
The sentence works.
No, combined only serves to specify that all of what the 400 Americans own is bulked together. It does not help to clarify what they own. Actually, the placement of the word "combined" is also ambiguous since it could refer to "the American population".
Placing the world "wealth" after more clears everything up.
I ain't mad at ya.
It works in the context of where we are. What we've been discussing these many months.
It would work better with a descriptor of what is "owned", but that's splitting hairs.
Have you ever been called Thrassy?
If so, I've been "accused" of being you, and "we" are covert members of the NSA, or the CIA, or some such agency..........................Sent here to infiltrate OWS.
It was one of those conspiracy theory guys, in a fit of pique.
Have they sent you your check yet? 'Cause I haven't received mine...........
Sure, read in the context of the discussions we've been having it's obvious what GypsyKing meant. However, I think good writing should be as clear as possible so that it can stand on its own two feet. We also have to think of new users, and of those searching with Google. It's no big deal. I was just trying to help.
Ya, I am the one GypsyKing, TITOUAISE, and many others accuse of being a paid agent. I have been called Thrassy, a troll, an agent provocateur, a psyops capable of mind infiltration, the head troll of this forum, Troll Fuehrer, a nazi, a wizard of spin, and so many other names.
Check out the following search results for a good laugh. As you can see, many people here are wasting their time.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=Thrasymaque
Like you, I have never received a paycheck. I have asked on several occasions where I might find someone willing to pay for what I post. I'm still waiting for a reply. If I could keep doing what I do and get a few bucks for it, why not?
One of the major problems on this site is that people don't understand that criticism helps push thought to new heights. Great ideas come from great thinkers, and great thinkers need great critics.
Sorry you've been accused of being me. That's the price you'll have to pay if you table some critical thinking. Many users here are just looking for high fives.
Ahhhhh, I see. You like to write, and write correctly.
In that case I agree.
If the innertube archeologists dig up this server, 5,000 years in the future and base a Bible on it.......................They're in trouble.
That however, could be a fun short story....................:)
I honed my writing and typing skills in chat rooms of the 90s.
I know................It shows..............................:)
And so it goes.
I hope that in 5000 years humans won't need religious texts.
I read many of your posts. You're good. Don't stop, even if you get called a paid agent. This site is infested by nonsensical conspiracy theorists. They don't do much apart from posting their dubious and already debunked 9-11 theories. They mean nothing. Their stuff is just junk that screams to be thrown in the nearest garbage bin.
I used to telnet a lot in the 90's. I was on a couple of MUSHes and MUDs. TinyTim was my favorite. It's still up, but I don't use it now.
English is not my mother tongue. One of the reasons I come here is to practice my writing skills. I make many mistakes, but I like it when others correct me.
I say thanks for your comments and GKs too.
At least it bumps the thread.
Don't worry about me. You can't keep a sarcastic old cynic down.
I'll be around....................................:)
If only to keep up the "good fight".
In this particular case, the omission of the word wealth creates an ambiguity. It reads like they own the American people.
Don't take it personally. We all make mistakes. I was just trying to help.
I agree. We can agree to disagree.
You responded before I finished editing my post. I addressed that as I was doing so. Sorry about that, I do a fair amount of editing when the words are on the screen in final print, because I don't 'see' them clearly in HTML, or whatever they are in originally.
Double entendre needs to be presented in a clear way, or else it's ineffective. In truth, there is only one entendre in your sentence, and that is that the people themselves are being owned.
Let's just agree to disagree. Not everybody is interested in learning how to write properly. I understand that. I don't usually go around correcting others, but, in this case, I thought it was appropriate because of the content of your post, i.e. Anyone who reads this and still can't understand...
Jesus Thrasy., could you find someone else to bash left-brains with for awhile, say a mountain goat? You take everything so literally that you remind me of the grave digger in Hamlet! You are so impervious to every subtlety that you might as well simply be a computer and not just on the computer. Are sure you actually aren't a computer?
Sorry, one of the reasons I'm using this forum is to improve my writing skills. I thought the ambiguity in your sentence was particularly interesting because of the content of your post. Don't worry about it. I was only trying to help. It's no big deal. Take it or leave it.
I wish the people on this forum would learn to take criticism in a positive way. It's essential for personal growth and the refinement of thought. The same backslash reaction occurs when people criticize OWS. They are pushed away and called trolls or paid agents. Their criticism could instead be used to improve the protest. If only more people had read René Descartes. He understood that great thinkers need great critics.
I think most people come here to discuss issues that are assuming life and death proportions these days. Quibbling over word usage seems a bit petty. Don't get me wrong, I have had some good conversations with you, but sometimes I get tired of seeing what appears to be endless bickering over small points.
I was trying to help GyspyKing formulate a better headline. He had wondered why anyone might not understand his point. I replied. It wasn't meant as bickering, but as constructive criticism.
Why don't you simply use the Javascript program I wrote a few weeks ago to ignore all my comments and postings?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-short-javascript-to-ignore-user-postings-and-art/
Well, you might post something good sometime though.
"Sometimes one must omit unnecessary words at the sacrifice of perfect grammatical conformity, in order to make a line of prose stronger."
"A means of disseminating information to convey a particular message with the aim of influencing people's opinions." The definition of propaganda.
"Language calculated to produce an effect"- the definition of rhetoric.
And FYI-a double entendre REQUIRES a word to have more than one meaning.
"More than one meaning"-definition of ambiguous.
lol, violin case
I laughed so hard I hurt something. He doesn't use spell checker any more regularly than he re-reads his own sentence structure.
I understood GypsyKing's sentence just fine.
I understood it just fine too. I was laughing at, and responded to, Thrasy's comment because I believe he has a point as well.
Seems mean-spirited.
Well I'd bow before the Queen of Never-Mean-Spirited but you aren't her.
(I'm learning to play that game from you...how am I doing?)
I'd say you're one of the meanest. Good going.
I can't be blamed. I'm an innocent victim of the 1% that rules this forum. It minimizes and disenfranchises me. It tells me that I am worthless and "less than". It cannot be my fault because I am only striking back with the anger and hostility to which I have been exposed repeatedly.
You have full freedom of speech here. No one stops you from saying what's on your mind.
Did I mention freedom of speech?
Why? Do you have to mention it in order for me to mention it?
Blue slushies with sprinkles.
Whatever.
then there was,......"headless body found in topless bar"
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I advocate the return of the guillotine.
In spite of all my rage at this situation, what I think we need is justice - no more, no less. If we want a just society than we must reflect that with our actions. We must recover the loot. That is the only way to save the global economy. I am sure there is a lot more of it than even the above measure would indicate.
The guillotine would be the justice. The people who are the most guilty in this 1% are guilty of crimes against humanity. Through their actions they directly cause wars, poverty, starvation. They are monsters. The guillotine is an efficient means to rid the population of these evil pricks, and would send a nice message to the rest of them, the ones who haven't been caught yet. Right now they're getting away with EVERYTHING. And I don't care about recovering the loot. These people have proved that they can just create all the money they want, any time. What are we up to now, 23 trillion dollars for the bank bailouts?
We do agree that we need justice. We need to return to the rule of law, Democracy, you know, that sort of thing.
Propagandists need to be hung, too. At the Nuremburg trials, the propagandists were just as guilty of war crimes as everybody else.
So. Rush, Judy Miller, et al? Say hello to my leetle friend!
The death penalty, especially from mob rule, is a very bad idea. It wouldn't solve anything and, instead, would create more problems. The root cause of all this corruption is not a particular individual or individuals, it is the broken system. Even if you change the actors, the stage will remain intact and will provide the replacements with the means to continue corrupting as if nothing had ever happened.
We must commence the new world by eliminating vengeful hearts such as yours. We'll cut your head, burn the guillotine, then find peaceful non-violent ways to solve the problems in this world. We'll place your skull on top of the Statue of Peace and Remembering to ensure that we don't forget the evil ways of violence and are not tempted like you to choose this easy path which offers no real long term rewards.
Found the quote: “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
Americans love their freedom more than enough to fight for it. The thing is, it won't be the police or government coming for us. It will be YOU coming because they won't. And we WILL take you out before we give in to YOUR regime.
Dude, you are extremely paranoid. Unless your name is Lloyd Blankfein, what are you so worried about?
Why do you support the massive criminal fraud of Wall Street? It hurts you, too! If you should be worried about anybody robbing your shit, it's them, not us. We don't want your shit. We want you to get back what they robbed from you as well.
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Okay, but before you cut off my head, PLEASE cut off the heads of at least 100 Wall Street crooks who actually committed crimes, okay? That's only fair. And if cutting off their heads is too violent for you, I give you permission to use a rope.
Did you ever read what Alexander Solzhenitsyn said about facing tyrants? You might want to check that out. He said if they come knocking on your door at night to take you away to the camps, you should shoot them. And that everybody should shoot them, then they might think twice about coming to your door in the dead of night to take you away. It's really pretty simple. Bullies are cowards, and they fear those who fight back.
Pulling a quote from your pocket like a magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat isn't a proper counter-argument. I could simply retort by quoting a person like Gandhi who promotes peaceful non-violence, but then it would be like starting a war of acadabras between two magicians which, although it might be an interest dual of zaps and poofs, would be utterly useless in furthering our discussion.
Instead of cutting off your head, let me simply bound you like Tyr bound the evil wolf Fenris. Perhaps you can spend the rest of your days tied up and playing cards with Loki while we solve the world's problems without employing your neanderthal-like idea of revenge.
Fine. Then throw them in jail. The point is:
THEY NEED TO FEAR US.
Otherwise nothing will change.
Right now they're winning. And continuing to win.
and always will...because there ARE winners and loser in life....that is a lesson you fools need to learn....if you want to win you must train and get more proficient and win the game as it is, not try to change the rules so that losers appear to win.....that won't EVER work..Sorry....
If you attempt to break US laws or set up a government of your own that the majority of the American people do not want, and will NOT stand for, you need to be afraid. VERY afraid. You will not win.
Uh ... in case you haven't noticed ... Wall Street and the corporate goons have already "set up a government of their own that the majority of the American people do not want."
THAT'S exactly what we're protesting against!
Please try to keep up. Unless you're a Wall Street gangtster yourself, you should be on our side.
This is about crime, nothing else. Fighting crime, holding crooks accountable for their criminal actions.
Why would you be against that?
OWS are the cowards. They want someone else to "come to the doors" and "get back the loot" they think was stolen from them.
And yes, when the government and the police are not sent to "get us" or "take away our stuff", YOU will either have to cowboy up and do it yourselves-in which case we WILL shoot you for trying-or scurry off into history like all of the social cowards before you did.
So what should we do to the Wall Street gangsters that stole all the money?
Or are you okay with massive criminal actions by people who are above the law?
You think that's okay? Why?
These people conned the world out of trillions of dollars. This thing is very similar to Enron, only orders of magnitude larger.
So where's the accountability? Why do people like you think criminal action is just "success"?
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I agree with you about the crimes against humanity, but that they should be prosecuted in a court of law with due process, and I do care about recovering the loot because it's the only way to buy America out of economic calamity.
But somehow, some way, we simply have to rise above this cycle of violence and retribution that has been our downfall throughout history. We will either outgrow it or perish. I really believe that's true.
How on earth can you demand JUSTICE when you are willing to condemn anyone who falls into YOUR designation of "rich" as guilty. No trial. No proof. Nothing. Your own words here repeatedly establish that you are NOT a "just" person of any kind.
I never said I condem anyone who falls into my designation as rich. In fact I have said repeatedly that I have no problem with people becoming rich in an ethical way. What I have a problem with is the amassing of such enormous volumes of wealth, unethically, that it threatens democracy itself. If you had read even a fraction of my posts you would know this. You are simply putting words in my mouth in order to discredit me.
By the way, who do you think you are, my man friday. You seem to be at my heals constantly with you inuendos and ill thought out nonsense. I'm not going to respond to any more of your comments until you stop twisting the truth to form a false narrative.
Are there names for this 400? Is it families or individuals?
Are they resident in the US of A? Or abroad somewhere?
As for the guillotine, it's highly unlikely that any one of them would be carrying money with them, so what would chopping off their heads do?
Bankrupt their families?
You do realise that it's not too far away that the "debt ceiling" that just got raised for Obama's congress, can't be raised any higher?
What happens then? You like eating corn, people?
WTF are you talking about? You're not making one lick of sense.
You brought up the guillotine, Nordic.
As for the rest, read the OP. I'm onto it. et tu?
As for the debt ceiling, it directly reflects the OP too.
Your country's defecit is now worth more than your GDP.
Unsustainable, my friend.
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80% of the American population doesn't give a rat's ass about what the 400 own.
It's not that they don't "understand" what you are saying". It's that all you are doing is screaming about the status quo. They find that as rational and worthwhile as going outside and protesting the SNOW or the WIND or the time the sun comes up. And they don't see you doing anything that will even remotely CHANGE it.
When you actually have a solid, coherent, and reasonable plan that will change things-and for the better, not for the worse-you let the public know and then they can decide if they want to help you change things or not.
Where the heck did you get that figure of 80%? You should call yourself justthelies.
I responded to this question above as follows:
"Hey, I gave you 19% that DO.....which is pretty much the percentage of Americans who are "liberals"...plus the 1%=20% of the population. I'm not married to that number at all.
How many people, what percentage of the American public do YOU think are ignoring the OWS message/movement currently and WHY do you think they are doing it?"
The real Question is not if....but HOW and WHY.....
I know your answer....and it's probably incorrect......
Earned and Saved is WHY......living on less than Earned with the surplus Saved and invested is HOW.....many started saving pennies and accumulated Millions......and why most of that wealth is in the hands of older Americans....
No one is stopping ANY of you from getting in on this....except perhaps your own behavior and poor financial management skills
.
The thing you, and many others don't want to face, or admit, is that poverty and wealth are philosophies first and foremost......the economic state is a result of the philosophy......
.
It's why most lottery winners are broke after WINNING millions and why successful people quickly rebound after LOSING millions
How dare they be super successful.
Yeah, stealing money is such a sign of success. Engaging in FRAUD and CONSPIRACY and enriching yourself thereby is SUCCESS!!!
Wow, you are just fucked up in the head, pal.
This is crime we're talking about. Not some Horatio Alger mythology shit. You think any current living members of the Bush family earned their "success"?
The Gangster class. They are criminal. They need to meet justice.
Why are you okay with crime?
success is ok but distorting democracy with wealth is not. that's what this is all about.
I hope for their sakes they can see the writing on the wall. 400 against 300,000,000 aren't very good odds in the long run. All it takes is the slightest shift in focus on the part of those thundering masses and they will be trampled like a gopher by a herd of bison.
As a VERY tiny portion of the population itself, OWS can also be trampled by that "thundering mass" like a gopher by a herd of bison. While the sentiments you are stirring up within that mass are similar, their responses to those emotions will not be. And you have a very long, very tedious, VERY observable way to go before you turn the 300,000,000 against the 400.
There will always be people complicitous with evil. The point is that "you can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." People are waking up, and you might want to ask yourself if backing criminals is the best thing you can do with your life?
The real criminals are ows illegaly squating in houses they do not own, defacing public and private property in protests, breaking laws, ect.
You might want to ask yourself why are you supporting criminals in the false name of freedom? People need to wake up to this propaganda driven fad that is ruining America. Good day sir.
Your user name should really be IrepresentThe1%.
They know it too. What you are saying here is the chatter in the country clubs and board rooms. This is why the counter assault on OWS has been so intense.