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Forum Post: On The National Defense Authorization Act

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 3, 2012, 7:27 p.m. EST by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The White House / Office of the Press Secretary / For Immediate Release - December 31, 2011 Statement by the President on H.R. 1540

Today I have signed into law H.R. 1540, the "National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012." I have signed the Act chiefly because it authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, crucial services for service members and their families, and vital national security programs that must be renewed. In hundreds of separate sections totaling over 500 pages, the Act also contains critical Administration initiatives to control the spiraling health care costs of the Department of Defense (DoD), to develop counterterrorism initiatives abroad, to build the security capacity of key partners, to modernize the force, and to boost the efficiency and effectiveness of military operations worldwide.

The fact that I support this bill as a whole does not mean I agree with everything in it. In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists. Over the last several years, my Administration has developed an effective, sustainable framework for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected terrorists that allows us to maximize both our ability to collect intelligence and to incapacitate dangerous individuals in rapidly developing situations, and the results we have achieved are undeniable. Our success against al-Qa'ida and its affiliates and adherents has derived in significant measure from providing our counterterrorism professionals with the clarity and flexibility they need to adapt to changing circumstances and to utilize whichever authorities best protect the American people, and our accomplishments have respected the values that make our country an example for the world.

Against that record of success, some in Congress continue to insist upon restricting the options available to our counterterrorism professionals and interfering with the very operations that have kept us safe. My Administration has consistently opposed such measures. Ultimately, I decided to sign this bill not only because of the critically important services it provides for our forces and their families and the national security programs it authorizes, but also because the Congress revised provisions that otherwise would have jeopardized the safety, security, and liberty of the American people. Moving forward, my Administration will interpret and implement the provisions described below in a manner that best preserves the flexibility on which our safety depends and upholds the values on which this country was founded.


The point I am trying to make is that according to THIS bill, American citizens can not be detained at all, indefinitely.

But as section 1031 states, “Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens…”

The question is, what does EXISTING law say about the detention of American citizens. That is what we need to be concerned with. If existing law states American citizens can be detained indefinitely, by the military, that is the law or laws that need to be changed. NOT this current law.

Unfortunately, we still have Senators like Lindsay Graham (R-SC) and others who supported the old version President Obama was going to VETO, which did NOT exclude American citizens.

The views of Senators like Graham still represent a grave threat to our civil liberties and any other existing law that permits indefinite detention.


Today when the President signed H.R. 2055, the “Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2012″ into law, he issued another signing statement in his battle with congress over the closure of Gitmo. Ever since Obama issued an executive order to close Gitmo, Congress has been running end games around funding the closure and transfer of detainees. This year was no different.


note: man that cap locks thing really irks the shit outa me sometimes

105 Comments

105 Comments


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[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

I'd sure like to think the initial response to NDAA was an overreaction, and Obama didn't sell us out, but none of this really addresses the controversial aspects of this law (and Presidential signing statements don't mean shit, Obama can change it by issuing a new signing statement, future presidents are not bound by it, etc.). Wiki has a good article on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

This is bad law, and Obama fucked up (and a former Constitutional law professor, has no excuse).

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Wow how long until they take advantage of the term "belligerent act" ?

Former chief of staff to Colin Powell talks about the NDAA and it's potential power of abuse. Skip to 7:15 to hear them speak about the NDAA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=F-TRHKoKh2g#!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Oh I'm against indefinite detention of non-citizens aswell

[+] -4 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Generally I think that when the U.S. takes a person into custody, regardless of nationality, they have been treated as if the Bill of Rights applied to them -

there have been some serious exceptions - as with those applying for asylum in INS detention, and some criminals - mostly Mexicans - in TExass.

The war on terror changed all that - and we really have to make up our mind - are these clowns Prisoners of War, or common criminals.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

under current law the people of the united states don't have the right to know who their government decides to detain

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

yeah - like I said, the war on terror changed everything.

[-] 2 points by Papakrok (2) 2 years ago

Obama's State department just launched the "Bureau of Counterterrorism" under DHS authority. And has just introduced legislation that makes anyone arrested under the NDAA an ex-pat by removing American Citizenship. Something big is brewing. Be aware. S 1698 This bill references 8 USC 1481

[+] -8 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

wtf is this? fear mongering?

I bet it is just that - a papakroc . . . I mean a pack.of.crock

you must be from the crock.pack

armed with a crock packed full of bullshit

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

wtf is this?

Using name calling instead of using reason and logic?

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

yeah-ya

sometimes I do that.

you must be new 'round here

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

ZenDog, how do you have the time to make 4357 posts/comments? Who pays you?

A month or two ago I made a comment here "to myself" to keep an eye out for possible COINTELPRO behavior by ZenDog. You should tell your bosses to fire you for incompetence. FAIL.

[-] 2 points by Wallgreed (-26) 2 years ago

Amazing to is that he is doing all of this with "dial up"

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I wish I was getting paid. Unfortunately that isn't the case. Too bad too, because I'm here a lot.

The number actually seems to refer to votes - so it is less an indication of numbers of posts and more an indication of

  • popularity

Just amazin, ain't it?

A lone wolf wingnut like me . . . .popular . . . .

I'm sure it was never the plan - me and my tin foil hat should have joined the rest of the brigade in some

  • random act of madness

long long ago -

but that hasn't happened.

Then again - I ain't dead yet

so I guess there is still time . . . .

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

Thanks for this post. I wasn't up to speed on this, so it helped to answer a few of the Obama haters out there.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

You are most welcome.

I wish it were more effective.

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

I think it's plenty effective and the links are great. The problem is certain people want to believe in elaborate conspiracies. It makes their lives more interesting.

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

and other people just want to foster them, like

and

as found here

and here

they probably share the same isp. fukers

Don't mind me. I'm just whining. Pressed for time, which curbs my creativity, compounding a mild sense of frustration.

[-] 1 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

Don't worry about it. I'm off to work myself. Have a great day!

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

hey you too!

[-] -1 points by Wallgreed (-26) 2 years ago

Have a good day at work and don't burn the burgers this time

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I don't support th war on terrorism at all


[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Basically Obama said this in other words:

"YES WE CAN INDEFINITELY DETAIN YOU"

Watch this whole video. It is incredibly important and the guy is a more than credible source, as he was the former chief of staff to Colin Powell. At 7:15 they start discussing the NDAA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=F-TRHKoKh2g#!

Awesome pic of Obama and his new campaign slogan for 2012

http://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/boingboing-obama.jpg

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 2 years ago

The Boomers are avoiding Truth at all costs. Watch out!

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I don't know what you are attempting to communicate - I guess that means you just aren't communicating at all.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 2 years ago

Baby Boomers compromising with Satan. Avoid at all costs.

[-] 1 points by ironboltbruce (371) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

Will ACLU Take the NDAA Bull by the Horns, or Just Milk the Cow?

This week the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) set up a new NDAA pledge page that reads as follows:

"He signed it. We'll fight it.

President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) into law. It contains a sweeping worldwide indefinite detention provision.

The dangerous new law can be used by this and future presidents to militarily detain people captured far from any battlefield. He signed it. Now, we have to fight it wherever we can and for as long as it takes.

Sign the ACLU's pledge to fight worldwide indefinite detention for as long as it takes."

http://tinyurl.com/76zzr57

I have not signed it ... yet. I suspect that once I do, I'll start receiving an indefinite stream of donation requests, all assuring me the money will go to fight the indefinite detention provisions of NDAA. I suspect that the ACLU may be gearing up to milk the NDAA issue for donations just as they have the USA Patriot Act, which a decade after passage and despite their efforts is still on the books:

http://www.aclu.org/reform-patriot-act

I don't mind the ACLU milking issues so long as they're actually making a difference on those issues. But I don't see that their efforts made much of a difference with respect to the Patriot Act. And when I asked them yesterday "What, specifically, is the ACLU going to do to defeat the indefinite detention provisions of NDAA 2012?" their answer was this:

"We are extremely active on this issue and are strategizing our best options in moving forward."

I find that answer very disappointing. The ACLU had more than enough time to "strategize" about NDAA before Obama signed it, and they should have been ready to spring into action once he did. I have recommended an effective course of action for the ACLU, which includes charging Barack Hussein Obama and all of the U.S. Senators and Representatives who voted for NDAA 2012 with Seditious Conspiracy under U.S. Code Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 Section 2384:

http://tinyurl.com/8yamv4c

Whether they follow that recommendation or not, whatever the ACLU intends to do about NDAA they better do quick. And if they want my support, they better be doing a helluva lot more than just building donor lists from online petition drives that otherwise accomplish nothing:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp

NO MORE LEFT. NO MORE RIGHT. TIME TO UNITE. STAND AND FIGHT!

IronBoltBruce via VVV PR ( http://vvvpr.com | @vvvpr )

Related Image:

http://ironboltbruce.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/aclu_ndaa_cash_cow.jpg

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

which includes charging

  • Barack Hussein Obama

and all of the U.S. Senators and Representatives who voted for NDAA 2012 with Seditious Conspiracy under U.S. Code Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 Section 2384:

.


.

I bet you are onna them fukin nimrods still convinced the President is a Muslim, and born in AfriKaa . . .

. . . creative mutherfukers . . .

I would remind you he did not write the bill, he signed it. The passage of the bill was designed so that it could meet the conditions necessary whereby a failure to sign would mean the bill doesn't pass; the type of bill - budgetary authorization - assured its passage.

the fukers did the same thing regarding Gitmo last year.

I'm all in favor of charging legislators and others with seditious conspiracy - starting with Kenneth Starr, Dick Cheney, and including Carl Levin and John McCain, last two having been the authors of this particular bill.

And as far as the left / right paradigm goes - I think we know who it is that staunchly opposes the Occupy Movement - but here - a refresher:

[-] 1 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 2 years ago

But it seems to me from what I read that it was Obamas Admin that fought to have the indefinite detention language included in the bill. They used scare tactics to ensure it was included. They told several members of congress that if it wasn't that there would surely be martial law. What do you think?

[+] -4 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I think the Senate version - which is the first version - of this bill makes it clear that you have been misled.

[-] 0 points by ironboltbruce (371) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

Again, friend... I don't care if Obama is African, Muslim or Martian. He's a corporate fascist puppet, just like Bush before him, Clinton before him, etc, ad nauseum. We must indict the puppets to expose the puppetmasters.

As to the left/right divide, if we don't close it long enough to defeat our common oppressors, then we're done for.

[-] 1 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 2 years ago

I agree. All they did was put a black face on the tyranny so that it would be easily accepted by the african american communiy. If mittens romney wins the election he will just continue the same global domination agenda as the rest of these globalist puppets. A vampire can't come into your house without being invited and obama was put in place to have black folks invite the policies in. Where does it stop?

[-] -3 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

He's a corporate fascist puppet

He is one man, who happens to be President. AS President we find the Congress has placed constraints on his ability to fulfill campaign pledges he made to the American people.

One of them was closing Gitmo.

[-] 1 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 2 years ago

That's if he really wanted to close gitmo. Congress is just a good excuse to not have to keep your promises. Lucky for obama because now he can follow the plan of his ghost handlers and blame his short comings on a partisan congress. How convienient.

[-] -3 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

so lets get rid of the repelicans and see what happens . . .

I bet that the corrupted dems of Congress will then stand out like sore thumbs.

[-] 1 points by XXAnonymouSXX (455) 2 years ago

This is true.

[-] 0 points by ironboltbruce (371) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

Like I said, Obama is a Corporate Fascist Puppet, just like the rest of the gang in DC...

Occupy Australia! Bushbama trades unearned Nobel Peace Prize for Salesman-of-the-Year Trophy from U.S. Defense Contractors

http://ironboltbruce.blog.com/2011/11/18/occupy-australia-bushbama-trades-unearned-nobel-peace-prize-for-salesman-of-the-year-trophy-from-u-s-defense-contractors/

United Technologies: Black Hawks for Brunei & Billions from a Boondoggle

http://ironboltbruce.blog.com/2011/11/25/united-technologies-black-hawks-for-brunei-billions-from-a-boondoggle/

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

so - all you've proved is that my first analysis is correct -

you are a repelican shill.

[-] 0 points by ironboltbruce (371) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

You could not be more wrong. The Democrats and Republicans are all puppets answering to the same corporate masters. I have no respect for either party. Besides, Grasshoppers, FACTS are FACTs, and that's what I linked to.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I didn't actually look.

Why?

well.

lets just say . . .

  • I don't trust ya

who knows what those links might do . . .

here

try that.

[-] 0 points by ironboltbruce (371) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

You are afraid to click the links?!?

Then you have issues I cannot help you with, son. Good Luck.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I'm sure I'll get by, thanx

[-] 1 points by JimBeam (152) 2 years ago

Zen, you bring up a great point and thank you for printing the truth. There is a provision in the Patriot Act that allows for the detention of an American Citizen who is caught on the field of battle as an enemy combatant. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else is out there. I do know that President Bush did write a letter in I think 05 to the DOJ and had them turn over an American Citizen who was arrested in NY and he to my knowledge is still being held somewhere. That is the only case I know of and it was atleast 5 or 6 years ago.

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

We have got to be willing to examine all of the legislation that supports indefinite detention and gitmo

rolling back the two sections of this bill becomes meaningless if we don't do the whole.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by ironboltbruce (371) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

CHARGE THEM WITH SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY

Americans must not be distracted by Corporate Fascist Puppet President Barack Obama saying "my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens" in his signing statement for the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 (NDAA:S.1867/H.R.1540). Presidential "signing statements" are political propaganda with no Constitutional basis. A President who breaches a signing statement covenant faces no more consequences than any other corrupt politician who renegs on a promise. By signing NDAA and attempting to give its unconstitutional provisions the force of law, Barack Hussein Obama became complicit with all of the bought-and-paid-for U.S. Senators and Representatives who voted for this bill, and along with them should be charged with Seditious Conspiracy under U.S. Code Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 Section 2384. And since our toothless Constitutional Rights watchdogs - whose donation-based business model may motivate them to focus more on prolonging than prevailing in rights battles - have thus far shyed away from the task, IronBoltBruce is asking all American citizens everywhere to step up and use Big Brother's own NaSI SARs (Suspicious Activity Reporting forms) to file these charges against Obama and - if guilty - their Senators and Representative:

http://amerikanreich.com/sar-list/

Unless and until these vermin are arrested, charged and removed from office, we should no longer consider the government they infest to be legitimate. Nor should we respect any ruling to the contrary from a judicial system that grants rights of citizenship to corporate entities that treat settlements and penalties for criminal conduct as costs of doing business with no concerns about incarceration or execution to deter their illegal, immoral or unethical conduct.

DEMAND THEY UNDO THEIR CRIME

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest [ 3 February 2012 ] http://pastebin.com/FaqnKfqt

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest [ 3 February 2012 ] http://protestintheusa.org/events/nationwide-ndaa-2012-congressional-protest/

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest [ 3 February 2012 ] http://www.mrboycott.com/viewupdate.php?id=1616

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest [ 3 February 2012 ] http://www.cosmicgnostic.com/node/1854

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest [ 3 February 2012 ] http://www.facebook.com/events/335643799778967/

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest [ 3 February 2012 ] http://www.survivalblogs.com/freedom-and-liberty/nationwide-ndaa-2012-congressional-protest/

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest [ 3 February 2012 ] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDdv_181VZE

NO MORE LEFT. NO MORE RIGHT. TIME TO UNITE. STAND AND FIGHT!

Never forget that we indict the politicians of all parties mainly to expose their common corporate fascist global elite masters. If we take out the puppets without pursuing the puppetmasters, they will simply acquire new puppets:

http://corporatecriminalsexposed.com/

IronBoltBruce via VVV PR ( http://vvvpr.com | @vvvpr )

Related Image:

http://ironboltbruce.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/nationwide_ndaa_2012_congressional_protest.jpg

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago
  • Barack Hussein Obama

you are just another one of them

  • oh oh he's a Muslim

  • oh oh he was born in AFrica

degenerate fools and lairs

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by shooz (26677) 2 years ago

Boy, am I glad for that.

Infowar (or somebody like that), wouldn't send me a tin foil hat, and I'm out of foil.

That was close.

PS, I still don't like it, but I think the hysteria, covers up what it really does, by focusing on a single point, of a LARGE bill.

There's your chance of cointelpro.

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I've got plenty of foil - you want mine?

I don't wear it anyway - I mean, I should, I know I should, because 60 Minutes ran a spot on FMRI so I know it's real and it explains everything . . . .

But I don't - I don't wear a tin foil hat - you can have mine - I don't wear one because . . .

  • I don't give a fuck
[-] 1 points by shooz (26677) 2 years ago

That works for me too.

I still smoke, so the chem trails can't get me.

Say, I heard when they turn on HAARP, it only affects people that watch FLAKESnews. It's tuned to that frequency, and there is no known cure.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I'm tempted to laugh

but really

fauz nuuz

it just isn't funny

[-] -1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

The fact that the FBI and CIA hate this, that Obama thinks it's to restrictive of his ability to fight terrorism, should give you pause. The jurisdiction has been moved almost entirely to the military, including the investigation of suspects. Basically S1867 takes away the ability to abuse the patriot act in cases they know damn good and well have nothing to do with terrorism. Flip that coin and you will find a military just as disinterested in abusing terrorism for a tool against domestic crime as we are. We buy into the idea that S1867 is bad at the cost of our own interest.

Reread the bill while considering it's effect on the Patriot Act. It makes the entire Patriot Act null and void homie, because the labeling of an investigation as one of terrorism means they have to turn it over to the military. The military has no interest in dealing with the petty bullshit that gives law enforcement such a boner.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

We have one that can see, i am kinda shocked it did not get collapsed in a second.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Yeah, I give as good as I get. They don't really fk with me much anymore. I'm glad you see it too though. Nice knowing I'm not the only one paying attention.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

I am in a fight to expose it, even if i am at the short end of the stick at the moment. I have a feeling people will start to take notice soon.

[-] -1 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Oh god thank you for this thread, the deniers of reality are here!!! LOVE IT So you are against the NYCGA on this issue thanks for making it clear to the people you had mind warped

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

listen up, mutherfucker

I've been so far down the rabbit hole I never thought I'd get out

  • ever

Some folks don't. They don't get out. Some get pumped full of medication. Others just plain die

I can't help what assholes are saying as they pander to paranoid ravings

But I do have a hard time with it. I have a hard time with it because people like you fall for it.

it tends piss me off

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Almost mad enough to round up perpetrators of said theory's?

[+] -7 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

how about the principle beneficiaries . . .

  • . . . . repelicans . . . .
[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

Man oh man you are dangerous, am i glad you are few in numbers. What do you have like 5 friends that agree with you?

[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (21783) 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] -1 points by fightclub2012 (74) 2 years ago

you are wrong so wrong they will use this to round us up and put us in fema camps

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Really? You think I should be scared?

I'm not

just fucking shoot me

[-] 0 points by fightclub2012 (74) 2 years ago

don't be scared just know when they come for you it is life or death.

[-] 1 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

Noted. Now, can we talk about something else? There's really no point in debating this issue. The government is a strong evil force that cannot reckoned with. We know the FEMA camps are coming. You've told us 20 times yesterday, and 20 more times today. Please let us enjoy our last days in peace. Thanks.

[-] 0 points by LongDaysnight (354) 2 years ago

They really feel so special being able to collapse who ever they like.

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

I said, let's talk about something else.

[+] -5 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I think I've seen that movie . . . . and I've already had my endocrine system so over revved that now it's just fuckin broke.

I don't have time for your paranoia -

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I'm on dial-up

do you know what that is?

[-] -1 points by fightclub2012 (74) 2 years ago

they still have dial up? is that free?

[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 2 years ago

You should be very scared. Get out of US. Come have a beer with me in Bali. I'm sure we could party pretty hard. You have a vile tongue, but a sharp mind. Just the way I like it.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I don't drink.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Thank you ZenDog for this post. I was beginning to feel like the last man standing.

It is a terrible bill, and should have been vetoed. (I've read that a veto would not, in fact, have shut down the government at this time.) Despite that, the hysteria surrounding this - based on rumor and a simple lack of understanding of the way this bill is designed to actually be implemented - is astonishing. Simply pointing out that there is no danger to Americans citizens gets one smeared with with epithets. Some people seem to prefer the drama of their fear and righteousness to the facts. The weakness of those facts is not that they are inaccurate, but just more boring and less melodramatic.

[-] 0 points by fightclub2012 (74) 2 years ago

yeah yeah yeah sure they won't use that bill against us they never did something other than what they told us they would do are you kidding?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

And what, in THIS SPECIFIC BILL compared to the previous bill, makes you think we are all in huge amounts of increased danger? Did you even bother to read my post? Did you bother to compare this bill to its predecessor? Is your hysteria and paranoia based on facts about this SPECIFIC bill in relation to the previous ones, or just general?

I see nothing in it to make me fear more than I did before it was passed that anyone will come after me for any reason.

But, since you seem likely to misinterpret my lack of concern about this SPECIFIC bill for support of it, let me say one more time that I hate this bill, hate the similar one from last year, and ESPECIALLY hate the whole Patriot Act mentality of our leaders. The dangers are about all of the legislation like this taken all together. This law makes minor changes, as is not to be feared in and of itself. But it makes minor changes to a MAJOR underlying problem. And that's the issue.

[-] 0 points by fightclub2012 (74) 2 years ago

i have analyzed all the passed legislation and the wording is ambiguous for a reason.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

More so than before?

What is it about THIS SPECIFIC bill that has you more upset than the LAST one, or the one before or the one before, going back to 2001-2?

[-] 0 points by fightclub2012 (74) 2 years ago

it is not what is in the bill compared to others so much as the opening of fema camps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo&feature=related

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Oh, PLEASE don't tell me you're one of those FEMA camp conspiracy nuts.

[-] 0 points by fightclub2012 (74) 2 years ago

it is very much a reality.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

You and I are done. There is nothing further to discuss with you. Your denials of paranoia have proven false.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Your wish has come true.

At any rate, you have, by your own admission, shown that you are NOT upset about this SPECIFIC legislation, but are scared in general.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I keep telling them I've never seen one.

Have you?

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Can't see what's not there.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

unless they are converting one of Dick Cheesy's old bunkers . . .

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I've heard they're magical places. They generate a force field that allows you to live without the necessity of having a heart. One must only become a repelican to gain admittance.

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

this thing was written by Levin / McCain - and I would point out that McCain

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Yup. And he was tortured in Vietnam and now wants pay the rest of the world back for it.

[+] -7 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

During the Presidential election his wife showed up on the podium with him and her arm was in a cast.

Just an observation.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

LOL

That's a bit nefarious!

But did he do it, or was it Sarah? (Those hockey moms can get awfully competitive.)

[+] -6 points by ZenDog (20489) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

If it was what it looked like it's not even funny.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

No, of course not. But I don't really think it was.