Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: On The Great Plains

Posted 3 years ago on Sept. 29, 2014, 4:48 p.m. EST by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

How can the Scum be Stopped from rising?The American Native Cultures devised a few ingenious ways of preventing Selfish.Greedy Megalomaniacs from rising to Elite Status.The Iroquois Confederacy kept things under control by giving great political power to Females,and subjecting major decisions to a Seven Generations Rule.This rule stated that no project could be undertaken without consideration of the well-being of descendants seven generations yet to be born.Plains Cultures created a system whereby nobody could attain great status,leadership positions or political clout unless they were poor.Every year,in front of the entire group,those who aspired to Elite Status would have to GIVE AWAY all of their material goods.There would be no way for such a person to preserve their reputation if it became known that they had hoarded wealth while pretending to give almost everything away.Of course,some people will eschew power and influence to keep their wealth.In a society where you can't have both,even the most selfish people would still have to give away part of their wealth or else end up becoming a Wealthy Outcast,unable to survive without at least minimal acceptance by the group.In this way,the natural wealth inequalities that arise in any group could be evened out,instead of turning into a Cancerous Tumor.By this means Selfish Materialistic people could still exist,be kept out of leadership positions,and be regarded with the Contempt they actually Deserve.

46 Comments

46 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

The Iroquois Confederacy kept things under control by giving great political power to Females, and subjecting major decisions to a Seven Generations Rule. This rule stated that no project could be undertaken without consideration of the well-being of descendants seven generations yet to be born.

Plains Cultures created a system whereby nobody could attain great status, leadership positions or political clout unless they were poor. Every year, in front of the entire group, those who aspired to Elite Status would have to GIVE AWAY all of their material goods. There would be no way for such a person to preserve their reputation if it became known that they had hoarded wealth while pretending to give almost everything away.

Of course, some people will eschew power and influence to keep their wealth. In a society where you can't have both, even the most selfish people would still have to give away part of their wealth or else end up becoming a Wealthy Outcast, unable to survive without at least minimal acceptance by the group.

In this way, the natural wealth inequalities that arise in any group could be evened out, instead of turning into a Cancerous Tumor. By this means Selfish Materialistic people could still exist, be kept out of leadership positions, and be regarded with the Contempt they actually Deserve.

(Thus this is ...) How the Scum can be Stopped from rising. The American Native Cultures devised a few ingenious ways of preventing Selfish, Greedy Megalomaniacs from rising to Elite Status .... ... - and the authors of The US Constitution fully understood this and were inspired by Iroquois Confederacy's 'Great Law of Peace' ...

Thanx for a fine forum-post tharry. Please excuse the cheeky sub-editing. Solidarity.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 8 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Well done.TYVM.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

''The Psychosis of Permanent War - The Global Culture of Violence: What Is The Path to Peace and Justice ?'' by Chris Hedges :

''People are not moved by fact or reason but by the skillful manipulation of emotion.'' - Chris Hedges speaking at the Brooklyn Society For Ethical Culture Charley Horwitz Platform. "The Global Culture of Violence: What Is The Path to Peace and Justice? Sept. 28, 2014.'' Thanx 'th', u r welcome. Solidarity.

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Eddie Bernays was a Demon from Hell.We should dig him up and Desecrate his Corpse.There are very,very few people I would say that about.For a Lackey to deserve such treatment is quite rare...

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

Re. ''Propaganda'', Edward Bernays wrote the book ... literally !!! Btw harry, I'll remind myself NEVER to get on your bad side, lol !! Now try to ''dig'' these ... instead of exhuming Sigmund Freud's nephew, lol !

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 4 points by corsali (47) 3 years ago

Let's see w/o Googling, Bernays was a nephew of Sigmund Freud. His specialty was mass psychology in which he succeeded in splendidly. He influenced both Joe Goebbels (Nazi propaganda minister) and Ivy Lee (father of public relations) who worked for Rockefeller during the Colorado coal mining masacre. Jim Lee who I had the displeasure of meeting as a young man was Ivy's son, and he worked for the Nazis in the 30's. I'll check those links out, thanks.

It's really fcked-up, eh?

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

''Before you get to socialism, you first have to ask yourself a more basic question: Which side am I on?'' & of the links appended above - in particular, I recommend the last one obviously ;-)

''Capitalism is not just an economic system, but a class system. That might sound like the same thing, but it's not. Classes aren't just defined by money, but by power--who creates society's wealth and who controls it. Under capitalism, the controlling class is a relatively small group of people, driven by the law of profit, which requires them to always take back more than they put in.

''Capitalism isn't the first society based on inequality, but it is the most powerful, sweeping all the peoples, animals and plants of the world into a never-ending race to produce more for less, and crushing any resistance to that agenda. Therefore, capitalism isn't simply another problem alongside war, exploitation and bigotry. It is the overarching problem that shapes all the others and that needs to be taken down alongside them. That is the first premise of socialism.

''Socialism is a society based on solidarity--on the recognition that human beings are both infinitely unique, and also share the same basic interests of survival, love and camaraderie, among others.''

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

Eddie Bernays invented a form of Shake n Bake that never seems to fail.His name shall always be attached to Doom.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

Propaganda ; perspective manipulation. ; selective amnesia & 'the manufacture of consent' - all come together under Bernays as the idea of deMOCKERYcy becomes ever more demoCRAZY & also fyi :

''More than 40 years ago, the Nixon-Kissinger bombing of Cambodia unleashed a torrent of suffering from which that country has never recovered. The same is true of the Blair-Bush crime in Iraq. With impeccable timing, Henry Kissinger’s latest self-serving tome has just been released with its satirical title, “World Order”. In one fawning review, Kissinger is described as a “key shaper of a world order that remained stable for a quarter of a century”. Tell that to the people of Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Chile, East Timor and all the other victims of his “statecraft”. Only when “we” recognise the war criminals in our midst will the blood begin to dry.''

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

The Iraqi Child Holocaust makes the World hunger for something that is Forbidden:Revenge.

[-] 7 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

''What ‘Democracy’ Really Means in U.S. and New York Times Jargon : Latin America Edition'', by Glenn Greenwald :

Like M.K.Gandhi said : ''An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind'', however as someone else must also have said ... ''In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King'' !!!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 2 years ago

Howdy,Shadz-thank you for these links.Oftentimes I have already seen some of the linx you are kind enough to provide for me.Lately I have fallen way behind,so you are totally doing me a solid.I am currently involved in seriously studying graphs & charts related to commodities,equities and the Bond markets.This is something I never followed closely in the past,thinking I would never be able to understand that kind of data.To my surprise,I have discovered that it is a first rate source of information that is not hard to understand at all.We are really in a worse financial condition than ever around here,so we are now involved in selling just about everything we have for whatever we can get-it consumes so much time!

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

Max Keiser is the definitive analyst on ''Markets, Finance & Scandal'' and he and Stacy Herbert are all but indispensable for anyone who is really interested in The Bankster Shenanigans & thus I append fyi :

Faux complexity, subterfuge, mendacity, fraud, deceit, smoke and mirrors etc.are the stock in trade of Banksters and their lackeys but Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert, cut through the crap like no one else I know & they are second to none in their critique, imho. I would VERY STRONGLY advise you to watch 'The Keiser Report' which is on RT-America and also on the web & is broadcast 3 times per week now.

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 2 years ago

Max and Stacy are one of my go to's-How didya know? Also Matt T.The Market is going to strategically "break" within the hour so nobody can get out.As the WS traders and arbs on WS say nowadays-"It can ALWAYS get worse."

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

"How Big Banks Run the World - At Your Expense", by Gar Alperovitz (but still yay for M&S) :

''The Imperative of Revolt'', by Chris Hedges :

Jubilee or Revolution ?! I'll be voting for both !! Maybe the former is Only possible after the latter !!!

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 2 years ago

Jubileeeeeee! Jail the Criminals! Free the Debt Slaves! Reset!

[-] 7 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

Time to bailout The 99% ! We can co-opt The 1% !! We must expose The 0.01% Parasite Class tho' !!!

The money lenders seem to have taken over The Temple yet again. It's time to kick over some tables !!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 2 years ago

The Evil is Sufficient Unto the Day.Time for a Freakin' Jubilee already.Fuck these Debts.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

i don't think max is very good on these issues. i agree that wages have been driven down but that has been going on for 40 years or more. also the screaming about "money printing" is silly - the problem is not money printing but democratic control over money and central banking. also the bigger question is what is done wiht the money that is "printed" - where does it go and who benefits. i cannot listen very long but he sounds like a money masters type guy. much too simplistic - hudson and kelton are much better seems to me - maybe i need to listen more

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

All money is 'fiat money' and therefore, ipso facto - an abstraction. IF enough people have 'confidence' in any given 'subjective abstraction' - then it becomes (almost) 'objectively real'.

Thus, my contentions are less with the mere notion of fiat money and much more with how it has now manifested via 'Ever Increasing Compound Interest Generating Debt' into something very different than that needed for the facilitation of trade and of an effective means of exchange of goods and services.

You are right of course - money need not be just backed by gold as we can (& have) used other notions of value. What is seriously worthy of much consideration however, is the ethics, morality and efficacy of "Debt Based Money" and the creation of Generational Debt Servitude For Entire Nations.

Max Keiser & Stacy Herbert are excellent at dissecting the workings of 'High Finance Crapitalism' and tho' I too do not agree with all their solutions, nevertheless I really appreciate their analysis and critique because they do not pull their punches. The half hour 'Keiser Report' starts with 15 minutes of Max and Stacy going through some recent examples of finance crime and then the second 15 minute section is given to Max interviewing a guest. These guests have included Prof. Michael Hudson, Prof. William K. Black, Nomi Prins, Ellen Brown, Janet Tavakoli, recently Russell Brand and many others.

In brief, my own reading of "Jubilee" is that the ancient OT Hebrew Elders understood that a son could perhaps be responsible for and pay his father's debts and/or a grandson could conceivably be a direct beneficiary of his grand-father's borrowing of money and could thus be morally responsible for paying of his grand-father's debts BUT that anything more would be 'generational debt bondage' (especially as one factors in 'interest') and this would have been understood to have been very unfair, unreasonable and so unethical.

Thus, every 49/50 years the Ancient Israelite Elders in their foresight and wisdom, declared that all debts were null and void. Therefore, freed of their debt-burden and quite understandably - festivities, celebrations and much merry making - ensued.

This is what we need now. Private Banks were bailed-out to the tune of trillions of dollars in 2008 & we are all still paying for that with Austerity For The 99% .. but what is really needed is for The 99% to be bailed-out & 'reset' to be pressed on the economy at large.

Further, I repeat a quote from J.K.Galbraith (1908-2006) : “The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent.

Finally, I'll now end by quoting - Adam Smith : "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." and in the case of Criminal Banksters - to raise the 'price' of borrowing to the public' .. whilst contriving to suppress the 'costs' to Banks For Borrowing - even in these days of near 0% interest rates & 'Queasing' !!! The depraved greed of Banksters Is Unbelievable !! Fkn Scum !

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 6 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

i agree and i think we agree mostly on money and it uses and misuse. somehow every time i watch max he is using phrases that make me think of money masters crap so i never get too far into any show. i will assume you are right about him - and for qoutes how about this one - not only is our money system rigged so is the political system and it was designed to be that way by madison! "The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa, or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge of the wants or feelings of the day laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe; when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of the landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be jsut, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability. Various have been the propositions; but my opinion is, the longer they continue in office, the better will these views be answered.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

So ''constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability.'' Hmmmm. Thanx for the quote from Pres. Madison, that jolts the brain at the audacity and ambition.

Re Max Keiser, as an example of what I was saying before, please see the very latest episode from yesterday (Thurs. 23rdOct.'14) & especially the first half with just Max Keiser and Stacey Herbert :

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 5 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

ok - i watched max and still do not find him too interesting. his first comment is on the gold standard - again and complaining about fiat currency. all true about fishy financial instruments and too much debt but his answers are not to my liking. why is it that a country can't self finance - buy it own debt?? and why is the u.s. dollar up - currencies are all tagged in relation to another currency - so yen and euro down dollar up. no matter but i think he is misleading and simplisitc

[-] 3 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

It's the ''fishy financial instruments'' bits and their exposure that I really like. I do get what you are saying re. Max K's personal fixations but we need not agree with Keiser's personal prescriptions in order to see value in his diagnosis and prognosis.

MK and SH now present and broadcast from London - The Global HQ of Finance Crime and frankly flip I really appreciate him. He is a true enemy of Crony Crapitalism and Stacy Herbert is really a good foil to his occasionally hilarious histrionics.

I too have misgivings about some of MK's solutions but I do really value M&S' exposure of ... Bankster Larceny ; The Rigged Markets ; The Moral Hazard ; The Perverse Incentives ; The Regulatory Capture ; The Conflicts of Interest & The Deep Corruption of International 'High Finance / Low Ethics / No Morals' Crapitalism & this is the value to us.

I've been watching MK & SH for several years now - from just before OWS started and I try to watch him regularly & like I said - MK is on RT 3 times a week now. As I mentioned before - the quality of some of the guests Keiser has is variable but also very good & as we both value and admire Dr. Michael Hudson, I append and recommend the following for you and others, for later consideration :

MK's 'Press TV' show is now no more but I especially recommend the 2nd & 4th links above.You're a hard man to please flip, lol & rightly so but I assure you that MK & SH and their endeavours have real value for The 99% & so I do recommend Max and Stacey wholeheartedly and sincerely to you and all.

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

I am with you!

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 2 years ago

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/ and also please consider :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 4 points by turbocharger (1756) 2 years ago

Imo without sound money the people at the bottom of the money chain always get fucked. I'm not sure putting it under some kind of democractic fluctuations would help stable it much.

Decentralizing the entire thing into statewide public banking could be a good move. Would help to stabilize and would also give the people more control, although not democratic decision making control.

Looking at how we spend our paychecks and the amount of credit card debt for meaningless junk out there, be careful what you wish for :^p

[-] 6 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

i am all for state banks but the federal government still has to have a federal money system if we are to remain a unified country with a modern economy. if you are talking gold standard when you say sound money i disagree. we may have had this debate before - if so no reason to go on. sound money is the cry from the wealthy - the working classes have understood for a long time now that fiat currency is what they need. the meaning less junk we buy is another story and we agree - look at the pr industry - creating "artificial wants and needs!"

[-] 5 points by turbocharger (1756) 2 years ago

Sound money doesnt have to be backed by gold, it simply can't be manipulated via the globalists and punish the lower levels. Like bailing out the banks simply shouldn't be even on the table, it shouldn't even be allowed.

If the money is sound, and globalists can't manipulate it via trades, etc, then we are all better off imo. I have never once benefited from them messing with the money. All I know if all the stuff I need to survive keeps getting more expensive, the taxes keep going up, and the banks are offering next to nothing in terms of a savings account, thus pushing everyone into wall st just to beat said inflation.

[-] 4 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

our whole financial system has been rigged in a bigger way than 50 years ago. not that it wasn't rigged then. housing along with too many other assets but that does not change the fact that most middle class families have most of their wealth in their house. i agree that in many ways it is not an asset (more likely a liability) but many boomers get lots of money when their parents die from the family house - down sizing and reverse mortgages show the money in the houses

[-] 4 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

i am not a fan of our banking system in any way. i think they should have been nationalized during the last crisis. i am for state banks and a democritized fed. if we are to have private banks then we should go back to what we did 50 years ago - small local banks that hold the mortgage they give you

[-] 4 points by turbocharger (1756) 2 years ago

I agree 100%

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

we disagree on inflation - not sure why you will not see that it redistributes wealth - at least on some level. houses are the middle classes biggest asset - if houses go up and mortgages go down then banks and bond holders are unhappy

[-] 7 points by turbocharger (1756) 2 years ago

A house isn't an asset imo, it creates no money only drains it every month. Its the only asset that isnt depreciated, becaues its a total bank racket. Getting paid the interest and debt on the same house for 100's of years.

They used to only go up at value at the basic rate of inflation, because of inflation. Now its all over the place, because you have huge funds using them as investment strategies, based on bailout money, that is only available because again at the end of the day the money is not sound, so it can be messed with.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 2 years ago

What do you think of fractional reserve banking such as we see nowadays,Flipper? Apparently many banks have lent out 40x moar than they can cover,and the reserve requirements don't even seem to address the problem-not even close.That is why Max keeps saying the Banks are Insolvent.Some of them can cover only 1:200.And they are willing to keep on going the wrong way Forever.No Economy can function if people don't work & save.Now people work for so little they can't save or they don't work or save at all.I find this to be very Disturbing.

[-] 3 points by flip (7101) 2 years ago

i understand your point but sound money is not the answer. i think it is pretty uncontroversial that inflation redistributes wealth which is why the rich hate it - reagan and volker are heros for ridding the country of inflation by driving it into a huge recession! think about the way you house goes up and your mortgage goes down during periods of inflation. now when wages do not keep up with inflation that is a problem but those are political problems - sometimes caused by "worker insecurity" as the great alan greenspan said. that was the result of the breaking of the unions and the power of the working class - political problems. stable currency will not stop the "masters of mankind" from stepping on us and helping themselves. it is a bit of a mixed bag but seem pretty obvious what the story is when you look to see who is screaming about inflation - our rulers - the banks and the bond holders and their paid politicians like alan simpson!

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 2 years ago

If the people understood it, they would be complaining as well.

Imo inflation is not good, deflation is not good either. Letting the people know that their money isnt getting fucked with is probably the most reassuring.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/

[Removed]

[+] -6 points by timeforabigchange (-43) from Winnipeg, MB 3 years ago

Nice ideas, but I don't think you can so easily transfer the culture, beliefs, strategies, of one culture to another. Especially when both culture are so different. And when both situations are so different.

We can inspire ourselves, of course, but we have to find a way to integrate those ideas into our societies and see if they can actually solve the problems we are having. The problems the Iroquois were trying to solve are not exactly the same problems that we have.

You did the first step. Don't be afraid to dig deeper.

  • per aspera ad astra
[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3082) from Waterville, NY 3 years ago

The problem I was thinking of is the seeming inevitability of corruption among Elites.If these cultures could get the problem under control,then it is actually not inevitable.I do believe anybody would agree that the Modern Elites are completely Bogus&Decrepit.They make Nero&Caligula look like Pikers.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

The principles of human interaction are much the same .. irrespective of culture and time and certain axioms can apply. This is why the lessons of ancient Greek philosophy can still apply and teach. I'd have thought you would have known that TrashyManque' !

Not sure who or what the other ''Removed'' comment was about but I may have to ask permission of my 'string pullers' before any further replies to you .. but you may rest assured, that I'd rather be a ''Puppet'' For The 99%, than a '1% wannabe' muppet - comme toi !!!

temet nosce ...

[+] -4 points by timeforabigchange (-43) from Winnipeg, MB 3 years ago

The principles of human interaction are much the same .. irrespective of culture and time and certain axioms can apply.

What a naive and strange point of view. Not only is it entirely false, but if it were true like you think, it would, ironically, completely destroy your idea above to use Iroquois principles of organization to change the way we interact in modern day societies.

Variations in culture, economic systems, religions, etc... are all about variations in how humans interact with each other.

For example, the whole point of struggleforfreedom80's push for anarcho-syndicalism is that it would change the way humans interact when producing things. Instead of an hierarchy with a CEO who controls the show (and makes more money), anarcho-syndicalism proposes a way for workers to interact on an equal level.

Organized societies are essentially organized ways of interactions between humans. The ways Iroquois' interact is not the same as how people in western societies interact, or how asians interact, and you can keep going more and more precise, i.e. How people in Hong-Kong interact is not the same as how people in Beijing interact.

It's hard to believe you misunderstand this. It's very basic anthropological theory. I mean, why want to take part in OWS if it is not to find ways to change interactions between people in society? I mean, just up above you propose to use Iroquois principles to change the ways we interact in US, then you say that people interact the same way everywhere?

The fact is, mature societies are organized in complex ways because they are made up of many people. These ways, cultural elements, economic elements, etc... are interwoven in complex ways. You can't just pick one element from another unrelated culture and pluck it in to our culture an think it will fit no problem. Like take the Iroquois's model for choosing a leader and use it for us. You need to think about those things in detail, deeply.

For example, many economic and cultural models used by tribes in the past simply do not scale. Which is why you never really see huge civilizations organized using the economic or cultural elements of small tribes. This should be obvious, even to those who haven't studied anthropology or related fields.

It's when you take positions like supporting 9/11 conspiracy theories, or say nonsensical claims like the one above that your lack of scholarship becomes so obvious.

If you want your ideas to have impact, I suggest studying more. Learning anthropology would help for this idea of how humans can interact differently from one society to the next, how economic systems impact that interaction, how culture impacts it, how religions impact it, etc...

[-] 3 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

I only read to the second comma after the first full stop !!! Looks like you are another who read ''How To Lose Friends & Alienate People'' !! Maybe try Billy Graham's original for better tips about people skills !

vale ...

[Removed]

[Removed]

[+] -6 points by timeforabigchange (-43) from Winnipeg, MB 3 years ago

Well, I suggest you read the whole thing. You might learn a thing or two. What you say in the above comments is simply wrong and makes no logical sense. It's a bit embarrassing to OWS actually.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

LOL !!! You're ''a bit embarrassing to OWS actually'' too, lolol !! I'll try to read it later ... possibly but it will help any dialogue for you to try to remove your over-inflated head from your arse and as I now see further proof of your fixation with 9/!!, then you should now get the ''9/!! Meme Equation'' - again !

  • 9/!! - NORAD + (WTC1 + WTC2) + {WTC& x WTF?!!!} + [Pentagon - Plane + 'GlobaHawk'/Cruise Missile] + UA93 - C.S.I. = Coup d'Etat .. q.e.d

multum in parvo ...

[+] -10 points by timeforabigchange (-43) from Winnipeg, MB 3 years ago

I don't expect a non-scholar like you to want to learn and educate himself. If you read it, it would help you. But, in the end, I took time to write that text above for our dear forums readers. I consider logical fallacy throwing conspiracy theorists as yourself as lost causes. Only you can decide to better your mind, no I. If you wish to remain ignorent and pseudo-scientific, I have to respect that choice.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 3 years ago

It's your abject arrogance ; brusque behaviour ; cranky conceits & deceptive duplicity - that undermine your arguments Trashy ! I've finally read what you wrote - and in between the start and the end of your longer reply above .. you do have some fair points re. 'societal dynamics over time' ... but you seem to (intentionally ?) not grasp that I mainly edited trashyharry's forum-post into paragraphs and only added one line (in bold) and then some supporting links, whereas you've chosen to get your knickers in a knot over one line of my subjective opinion - 'straw man' much ?!! Further, your predilection for 'The Official 9/!! CONspiracy Theory is noted .. once again !!! Finally, per the OP :

More along the lines of what I had meant by : ''.. principles of human interaction are much the same'', I'll refer, you to this about 'fiction', which per se - has a basis in objective or subjective 'facts' - perhaps, lol :

errare humanum est ...