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Forum Post: OK folks, prepare to have your minds blown!!!

Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 31, 2012, 1:05 p.m. EST by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The video link below exposes the nature of modern banking to be a truly sinister entity. If you are anything like me, it will turn your stomach and send your mind reeling. There is a reason why this information is not promulgated in our school system, and may only be known to those who study finance and economics in higher-education curriculums (even then it may not be generally known). I certainly knew nothing of this until fairly recently, and I am 56 years old.

Strong encouragement to take your money out and stuff it in your mattresses.

Part 1 of 8 parts, but only the first one (9m55s) need be watched to have you screaming with outrage (at least that's how I feel -- maybe the rest of you won't feel as strongly). I watched the whole thing once, but probably never again (just too painful to bear).


UPDATE: I just forced myself to watch part 2. Still astonishing and comprehended as some bizarre fantasy that can't possibly be true --- but it is. Recommended viewing.




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[-] 4 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

After gathering so much information from these discussions, to now watch the news and/or events that transpire is like watching a puppet show. How can we get started now to build a society, or even a subsociety, using the principles discovered here that seem most likely to work together? Set a goal, make a plan, implement it. If something doesn't work, try something else. It could be quite a project for folks who are on unemployment and have the time and energy to devote to it.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

I have advocated since my very 1st post on OWS that they need a leader. But OWS is leaderless, and every time it is brought up it seems to be rejected by those who want to keep it that way. I don't really understand why. History shows every successful movement in history, violent or peaceful, had a charismatic leader with a vision. These kids are smart, energetic, and idealistic. But I think they need a history lesson. Even an ant colony has a queen to provide a purpose and something to rally around.

[-] 3 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Well, we also learn from this forum that there are a lot of naysayers, ideologues, etc. I do believe a leader will emerge, maybe several leaders, but first there has to be this coalescence of ideas, ebbing and flowing, some converging, learning how hard it is to achieve compromise. History, as we have seen, lies, or certainly leaves a lot out. Those movements probably didn't start out with leaders, either. Keep on spreading the word and trusting that we are creating a new world just by sharing all of this information with each other. In case you haven't heard of it, www.ted.com has some wonderful, innovative ideas.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

the site is too busy

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Do you mean too many people are using it? What can be done to change that?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

I saw a checker board of flashing images

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago


[-] 1 points by April (3196) 12 years ago

Still need a leader, still need a clear message.

What may have worked to get this movement started is now holding the movement back and even hurting it.

I'm afraid this movement keeps losing support because of it. And it is now mostly being made up of like minded people making decisions at the GAs to continue this road to nowhere.

There needs to be alot more people demanding changes in this movement or it will continue to disintegrate.


[-] 1 points by Coyote1983 (61) 12 years ago

Like any living thing or form of art, a movement has to keep moving and changing.

That which stays still too long dies.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 12 years ago

Agree. #1 - this movement needs to lose the anarchy. #2 - see number 1.

[-] 4 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 12 years ago
[-] 4 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

THAT is sickening. When will it ever end?

[-] 2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 12 years ago

Ted Kennedy asked the same question, "When does the greed stop?!"

My answer is when we stand up and stop it!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

[+] -5 points by shadz66 (19985) 12 years ago

'Ud': For your viewing convenience, consideration & 'illumination' (ahem~{;-) :

a) "Money As Debt I" ; http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt/ ;

b) "Money As Debt II"; http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/money-as-debt-promises-unleashed/ &

c) "Money As Debt III; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6uuAupT4AQ .

"radix malorum est cupiditas"

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Thanks. I have already seen 1 and 2 a few years ago, but I'll check out 3. Thx agaIn.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 12 years ago

I hope you are not faulting XOM but rather the federal government. Unless of course you pay more taxes than you are required to.

[-] 4 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

These videos are remarkable! Thank you. I'm not inventive enough to fully understand the self-credit idea, but it is so very logical an idea in light of technology. I look forward to discovering more about this and other new ways of handling trade. I did not find it painful at all, however; just, "ah hah!" as it explains so much of how we got here.

[-] 5 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

I don't know how old you are, but for me this represents institutionalized, yet legalized, criminal activity. Yes, a legal crime. That is normally an oxymoron, but the banks have gotten away with it counting on their belief that we are morons. But if this information can be distributed widely enough, the mental and emotional shock of it will result in banking reform. It HAS to, unless the entire world has become morally bankrupt. This goes to the inate core of a persons sense of right and wrong.

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

I am older than you are and yes, the economic practices have long been accepted as thievery. I doubt that the majority of those benefiting actually understand how they got there; they just capitalized (no pun intended) on gaming the system as it exists. However, up until now, we did not have the ability to educate people outside the structured system that is served by maintaining the status quo. It can't be coincidence that the very technology that educates so many people in so many languages is also the very means by which such new ways of doing things can be implemented. That it also comes at a time when there is more awareness among us that we are all in this life together and working together for the benefit of all is far better than working together for the benefit of a few. Imagine this information being found and distributed when you and I were in school...we would STILL be in the library!

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Yes. We live in interesting times. The merging of sci-tech with expanded global awareness resulting in a global community. The KEY question to be answered is whether that new global community can form rapidly enough and cohesively enough to effectively offset (and ultimately overthrow) the entrenched worldwide regimes of the power-elite who will vigorously and determinedly resist such an effort with all the means at their disposal.

Yes indeed. We live in interesting times.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 12 years ago

Great to read this conversation - it gives me much hope.

[-] 3 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

I am a pretty hopeful person, so always happy to hear that it can be spread to others :) I learn much from this forum...ideas I would never have had reason to consider. Good ideas. Ideas how to do things differently. A challenge to the conventional wisdom, as well as a grand expose not only of what the conventional wisdom is, but how so much of it is dead wrong. I believe it is important to accept that very often we do not know the value and impact of what we are doing, but there is always good value to questioning and learning and being willing to do things a new way. This movement rewrote the State of the Union Address....that's pretty good for a few months. I ramble.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 12 years ago

You don't ramble at all! This is nothing less that the begining of spiritual awakening, which is glorious.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

In case you are interested, below is a link to another short video that explains the same situation as the other videos from a different perspective. It shows how money is created through loans, how inflation occurs within our economy, how money = debt, etc. I think you might find it very enlightening.


[-] 3 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Thanks. I first heard of the Zeitgeist Movement a year or so ago and was thrilled that there is a means by which we can actually implement a caring society in which all of its members live in harmony because there is no need to work your butt off just to survive. I have watched Star Trek TNG over and over because Gene Roddenberry had a vision of such a world. Cap. Picard says at one point (to some recovered 20th century people in a capsule): We no longer use money; work is no longer necessary. We now spend our time exploring, learning and enjoying life. (or words to that effect). Needless to say, the folks from our time didn't understand at all how that would work. We are taking the baby steps to that world. Just acknowledging that it is possible is a huge step.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Yeah, I'm an old Trek fan from as far back as the original network broadcasts from 1966-1969. He certainly was an optimist to be preaching that during all the riots, assassinations, Vietnam war/protests, resistance to Civil Rights movement, etc. Just shows that even in dark times someone with a vision can light the way.

[-] 4 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Me, too. Roddenberry was quoted, in response to someone pointing out that his episodes in the 60's were morality plays, "Shhh; don't tell anybody". There are lots of people with a vision of a better world...Eckhard Tolle's books (A New Earth and The Power of Now) discuss how we as individuals can make a difference. I highly recommend both books for a better understanding of us. If we can learn how to give up the need to be right (i.e., correct ), we will be far more effective at working together on solutions. We can try things and, if they don't work, readily admit it and try something else. Zeitgeist Movement for self-sustaining cities. Self-issued credit in the form of digital coins; a resource-based economy. Treating every human being as having value. So many possibilities. The question, of course, is where and how do we get there?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23782) 12 years ago

This is called fractional reserve banking. I'm not sure why the video never addresses it this way. It is one of the problems in our very long list of problems.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Yes I know. Below is the link that first introduced me to fractional reserve banking about 3 years ago. It more clearly expresses how it results in inflating the money supply. When I first saw it, I had a hard time believing it.


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23782) 12 years ago

Thanks for the link. Most Americans have no idea about this.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Your welcome. I have often wondered what the percentage of Americans are that are in the dark about FRB. How did you learn about it? Did you stumble across it, or were you taught?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23782) 12 years ago

Part schooling, part stumbling. I read a lot.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Have you seen this series of websites: http://www.thepeacefulrevolution.com/#57 -- a real plan without government involvement at all. It's a whole lot of information/ideas, etc., but all are interesting, provocative -- even possible.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

No I haven't but it looks interesting. I just bookmarked it, so will try to check it out.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

I have not watched the vid yet... (I have seen many similar, I'm sure) ... and I will watch it tonight... thanks....

yet, I believe that the FED has promise .. IF we the people control it ... it does add a form of currency into the world economy... albeit... in form of credit... but it is a currency that would not exist otherwise...

we just need to get the greed and corruption out of it... and it could be a good thing....

further.. we have an opportunity to benefit in another way... because of the current greed associated with the FED...

I believe we can expand currency more.... in a realistic and acceptable way ... within the current established system....

see, http://occupywallst.org/forum/an-occupation-on-the-edge-of-prosperity-draft/

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Hmmm, I'm not an economist, but I think we could get along without the Fed. Remember, it didn't exist prior to 1913, and if it didn't exist again we could still operate. Money is created at the US Mint. The Fed is not necessary to create money, even though every piece of fiat money in circulation says Federal Reserve Note at the top. That would have to change to United States Note.

The Fed is a central bank. It's prime function is to set prime interest rates to increase/decrease monetary activity in the economy, and to remove or inject money into or out of circulation as needed. There is no reason why the government could not have a board of economists to advise it when/how to do the same thing. Since the Fed is independent of the government, they are not accountable to anyone (to my knowledge, I may be wrong here).

If you look at history, the Fed came into existence via a group of powerful international bankers who wanted to get their hands on the wealth that was emerging in the US at that time (we were emerging on the world stage as an economic powerhouse). They sought a mechanism to do it, and they succeeded.

Over the decades, policies implemented by the Fed have resulted in an inflated currency. $1.00 in 1913 required $21.60 in 2007 to match value. That is a 96% devaluation since the Fed came into existence.

Whether the Fed is retained or abolished, something needs to change. The devaluation of currency (aka inflation) is a serious matter. The more money there is, the more debt there is. The national debt is a ridiculously large amount of money/debt. As one of the primary advisors to Presidents and Congress over the decades regarding fiscal policy, the Fed has wielded enormous influence in the policy decisions that have been made.

I am not saying that the Fed is solely responsible for the mess we're in, but I think they have been an important contributing factor. Maybe we should consider something else for, oh say, 10 years or so. If it doesn't work, the Fed system could always be reinstated.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

the way I see it... the FED's whole purpose and goal is to increase the amount of currency that is put into the world economy as fast as it can w/o causing a deflation of the US dollar...

now... as is... that is currently working for and supported by the FED stock holders....

and it works not only for those stocks holders but also for impoverished economies (to a point) ... it does provide some currency and therefore opportunity for the impoverished that otherwise would not exist... however they are paying greatly for the influx.... <---- that is what we need to fix ... get the greed out of it....

We the People need to be the stock holders....

now ... that would currently be a HUGE battle....

I suggest we demand a similar Federal Bank to start with... a Social Bank .... let the FED continue doing what it is doing ... if they allow and support us in allowing us to do our thing.... eventually they will see it as more profitable to fix the system as opposed to abusing it ...


[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

That is a very interesting point. I have a couple of concerns/questions:

1) I was not aware that the Federal Reserve of the United States was also functioning as the Federal Reserve of the Global States of the World. Because we have the world's largest economy, and the world now exists as a global economy, it is easy to see how that may have indirectly come about. But the primary purpose of the Fed is (or should be) to serve the best interests of the US first and foremost, and to focus on restoring our economy to health. If we can get our house in order, other countries will follow suit, or at least could benefit from our new prosperity through the downstream effect such prosperity would allow.

2) What would your "similar Federal Bank ... a Social Bank" look like? What would be its primary purpose? It's charter? Would officers be elected or appointed? Who would they be accountable to? Etc.......

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

we can easily get our house in order... if the banks would stop playing "sure bet" casino games.. and simply invest into US business and economy.... especially if we identify and refuse to let the people pay for the theft... and we pass that back onto the thieves ...

after that... America's biggest interest should be a healthy global economy... when people are happy & prosperous...they are far less likely to engage in war like activities....

in additional ref to the previous post... We have an opportunity to gain far more than simply taking over the Fed... if we use it to expand what is considered wealth....

as far as the Social Bank structure.... kindda looking for help there ;) ... I pretty much understand the math of it... but need to do a little more studying for implementation...


[-] 0 points by fairforall (279) 12 years ago

2 questions

You're really 56?

What made you horrified?


The CoC guy looked like JF Kennedy

The chicks on the boat were hot.

You owe me 9:55

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Yes I really am 56. I have discovered there are quite a number of us 50-something's blogging on these forums.

If the videos are true, then the bank puts up nothing and gains everything. The average person would think, like the video says, that they are contributing something to the deal...but they aren't! Unless I am completly misinterpreting the videos, they aren't putting up $10,000 of their actual money for a person to buy a car. They are creating the money out of thin air with a few keystrokes to your account and, voila... instant bank credit. Then they just reduce your liability on the "books" as you are paying them back, with interest, on money they never truly loaned out. They secure the loan with the car in case you default, so if you can't make the payments, you've lost all the money you've put into it so far, plus they repossess the car that they can use to make more money off of someone else ... all with no actual money outlay on their part!!! What liability did they have in all of this? The videos purport NONE!

I find this morally outrageous and an affront to anyone with a conscious. Did you not see the analogy that was made about counterfeiting (illegal) and what they do (perfectly legal)? I find this sickening. Anyone else would be thrown in jail...but not the bankers.

Here is another video that explains how banks operate from a different perspective. Still hard to believe, no matter how it's presented.


[-] 2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

Why do you think the Rockefellers spread out into banking from oil?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Good point!

[-] 4 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

By the way, I'm 50 something myself. We may have to gang up against these young squirts. LOL!

[-] 4 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

They're on the front lines, but maybe if they read some of our old-fart brains at work they might pick up a few ideas :-)

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 12 years ago

No, I'm not surprised of your age by you being here but that you are just becoming aware of how banking works.

You ask a question about what liability they have if you default on the loan. Well, most cars stay underwater during the loan period, so the risk is they get back an asset that is not worth what is owed on it. You do realize they paid the dealer/previous owner for the car, don't you?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

I have had no formal education in finance or economics so I'm sure there are a lot of things out there on the "inside" that I don't know about.. It's just that this one really irks me because they create the money out of thin air to pay the dealer/previous owner. We have to work hard for our money to pay them back, but what do they do? Nothing, except play with numbers.

Yes I know, this whole thing is called "expanding the money supply" by economists, but it is really just devaluing money. That would be ok if wages kept up with inflation, but starting in the 1980s, it started not keeping up with it. People were forced more and more into borrowing and, therefore, purchasing things they really couldn't afford. In the case of a new car, very few average Americans could plop down cash on a, say, $25k - $30k car, so the focus went off of the ridiculous costs of a new car that was being driven up by inflation to "can you afford the monthly payment?" The cost of the car didn't even matter anymore. So people were on the hook for 3-5 years or more making payments. If they lost their job and couldn't find another that paid equally well, the bank repossessed. Did the bank reimburse them for all that money they paid, with interest, on money that they created from nothing? Don't you see the criminal nature of how the banksters operate? How is creating money out of thin air any different than counterfeiting, except that one is illegal and the other isn't?

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 12 years ago

Why should the reimburse you? You had use of the car during the time you were making payment.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Depending on the age and condition of the car, there's still a good chance that the banksters could come out ahead by selling it to a used car dealer or getting some poor other borrower on the hook. However, since it's also possible that they could theoretically lose money, that they still created from nothing, I'm willing to concede on that point. I'm still infuriated about the inflationary practices of the Fed that allows this to happen. $1.00 in 1913 when the Fed was created now requires $21.60 in 2007 to match value. That is a 96% devaluation.

I just don't think that the banking system we have today makes any sense. It is designed to support an agenda that is way beyond the average person to comprehend. And that complex framework of high-finance banking and the bailouts that result from "too big to fail" arguments put forth by the power-elite is what has given rise to Occupy. Nothing should be allowed to become too big to fail. Doesn't that begin to almost sound like a monopoly? Break them up if they're too big to fail!!!

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 12 years ago

If the bank can sell it for more than owed, then you can as well. Have your buyer meet you at the bank, the buyer pays off the loan, the loan gets closed, you get the net leftover. Win/win/win. And whatever you paid went towards your time using the car and depreciating it - a decision you made an rationalized at the time you allowed the bank to buy you a car.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

What if no third-party can be found on your part? We could go on with what-if scenarios and this mental jousting forever. If you are on these forums because you enjoy the mental stimulation of a good chess game, go play a real game of chess elsewhere and cease using up disk space on the server. We have moved into the realm of sophistry/debate for the purpose of winning an argument rather than addressing the main point of the OP which is the common banking practice of creating money from nothing. Let us return to it. You seem determined to argue in favor of it and the inflationary results therefrom. Are you in favor of the current practice? Did you watch both videos? Have you missed entirely the point? Are you a member of the finance sector that supported the bailouts under the argument of "too big to fail"?

[-] 0 points by economicallydiscardedcitizen (761) 12 years ago

I have not yet watched the video at the link in this thread yet but it 's true, the banking system creates money out of nothing as you describe in your summary of it. Why do you think so many are coming to realize the sanity of the argument to end fractional reserve banking; to wit:'End the Fed!?'

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Yes, I agree...end the Fed, or severely restrict it's power/influence in shaping monetary policy (probably best in the long run to just end it).

Did you know that Congress could by-pass the Fed right now if they wanted to, requiring no new legislation? The Constitution grants them the right to coin money, with no restriction placed on the value of the coins stamped on them. So, they could create a few trillion-dollar coins, deposit them, and start writing checks. I'll bet Ben Bernanke would have a heart attack if they did that :-)

[-] 1 points by economicallydiscardedcitizen (761) 12 years ago

Then there would be a massive fight between the U.S.A. (we the people) vs. the 1% who are the private 'owners' of the FED.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

Could be. That would be really interesting to watch!

[-] 0 points by economicallydiscardedcitizen (761) 12 years ago

It could actually come to that when and if food supplies are affected further by the global depression along with more unemployment.

[-] 0 points by economicallydiscardedcitizen (761) 12 years ago

They should and he (Bernanke) would...

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago


Have you seen these vids about the Fed? Not too long, and pretty funny except that it's true so, well, maybe not so funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe0fGXzKb1o&feature=youtube_gdata_player http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4e8Cb-Dc4I&feature=youtube_gdata_player


[-] -2 points by smelly (1) 12 years ago

oh yea...Banks..."truly sinister". You fucking idiots. Banks provide the money that drives business. Go ahead...stuff your money in a mattress. OWS.=biggest bag of idiots in modern history

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

No one is arguing that banks don't provide a necessary function in our society. It's the rules and the way they operate that is being called into question.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 12 years ago

a very few of today's banks provide capital for business ... THAT is the problem... most banks can't get out of the casino ... and THEY are killing the economy... no-one else

[-] -2 points by FreeDiscussion1 (109) 12 years ago

Mind blown? Dont use the word BLOW around GirlFriday.

[-] 0 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 12 years ago

:-0 lol