Forum Post: OK Anarchists, Black Blocs, and masked-hooded Jack-Offs: GET LOST!!!
Posted 12 years ago on May 7, 2012, 6:19 p.m. EST by JIFFYSQUID92
(-994)
from Portland, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
OK Anarchists, Black Blocs, and masked-hooded Jack-Offs: GET LOST!!!
Ask anyone who observed May Day who WAS thinking about joining the Occupy movement near them: They don't want to be associated with hooded and masked hoodlums!!!
Perception is everything!!!
Too many times I have seen a few idiots ruin things for the many, not this time.
There is no room or place in Occupy America for your stupid, destructive, violence!!! You/they could not be more destructive to the 99% (power to the people) cause if you were paid Republicon zombie, troll, provocateurs!
We are responsible for purging Occupy of these idiots, or we will go down! TIME TO KICK THEM OUT!! Out of here assholes!!
No violence!
We can never be associated with violence in our struggle.
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And no co-optation by the Democrats or Republicans!
Okay my super-right friend. Since when did the right wing start dictating the terms of this debate? I have two simple words for you, fuck-off!
I am not your friend, and I do not accept the false left/right paradigm that retards your thinking. Why do the moderators of this forum allow liars like you to make baseless personal attacks like this?
I do not accept gravity, and yet I cannot fly...Why Why can I not fly?
Good one!
I was hopeing you would see this one, I suffer the sin of pride from time to time...
Iron Butt = little dictator
the military didn't support the production of the Avengers
Esoteric or non sequitur?
Don't watch most comic strip movies. Dumb.
See Idiocracy!!
The Avengers is great IMAX 3D yeah for people and tech (sorry) I do like things, it's a weakness...
Idiocracy hurt my brain..
Like boiling the frog slowly, WE are being Idiocracy-ed!
Passing more judgments on people and things you know absolutely nothing about, eh GypsyKing?
Iron Butt = Little Dictator
The American elections perpetually televised by our Kleptocracy-controlled media are a smokescreen of false choices distracting attention from even more false choices. At the presidential level and likely others, our election results are predetermined: If not by the billions poured into brainwashing voters through the media, then by rigging the voting machines and if necessary having a tainted judiciary overrule recounts:
Psywar: The Real Battlefield is Your Mind
http://www.openfilm.com/videos/psywar
Hacking Democracy
http://www.hulu.com/watch/192687/hacking-democracy
Peace!
http://www.hulu.com/watch/177439/peace
This Orwellian subterfuge distracts the attention of the Sheeple from other false choices that have far more impact than which corporate puppet gets to sit in the Oval Office for four years. Those choices currently include: the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 (NDAA) – a loss of real freedoms in return for protection from fabricated threats; the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and Protect IP Act (PIPA) – Internet censorship disguised as intellectual property protection; and the Keystone XL Pipeline Project – which will give us dirty energy and ditch-digging jobs at an ecological cost that may include the main water supply for the American Heartland – approval for which was accelerated by a clause buried in the recent Payroll Tax Cut legislation that received bipartisan praise. This deceptive spin and doublespeak has been going on for years, and will continue at an ever-accelerating pace now that Corporate Fascist Puppet President Barack Hussein Obama signed away our Bill of Rights on New Year’s Eve, while we were watching balls drop and he was in Hawaii, about as far away as he could be from the uprising of an angry citizenry that never materialized…
IT IS NO COINCIDENCE THAT OF THE LAST 14 U.S. PRESIDENTS, 7 HAVE BEEN DEMOCRATS AND 7 HAVE BEEN REPUBLICANS.
Mainstream media focuses on America’s two-year election cycles as if who wins or loses in the swinging of the pendulum was a matter of life or death, when in fact even at the Presidential level it makes no more difference than the outcomes of Monday Night Football, American Idol, Dancing With The Stars, Hillbilly Handfishing, the trial of Michael Jackson’s doctor, or the latest Kardashian crisis. Our elections are staged to give Sheeple the illusion of control so they will (a) vent their frustrations and expend their energy, emotions and resources supporting or attacking the Puppet on the Left hand or the Puppet on the Right, and consequently (b) never recognize and challenge the common omnipotent Puppetmaster. As long as corporations own the politicians, it’s futile to believe we can “CHANGE” things with our votes.
Because we've become a society of people who seem to desire constant entertainment (and our attention span is becoming exceedingly shorter). People often like to insult what they call the "fringe" ends of the political spectrum, but I'll say this much for those fringe elements, at least they deeply give a shit about something. Political "independents" can, in some cases, be people who are deeply concerned about our society, but it's also become a code word for the idea that "it's only cool to give a shit about our society for about 30 days out of every two to four years." The worse thing is, independents tend to decide elections, when they're often the least qualified to do so (and this is the fine art of transforming people into sheeple).
Whatever.
Q. IF YOU VOTE IN ELECTIONS, ARE YOU MAKING A DIFFERENCE OR WASTING YOUR TIME?
Are you an effective political activist, or an impotent “feel-good” slacktivist? You may be fighting for the right cause, but are you fighting in the right way? Have you challenged “The Man”, or played right into his hands?
A. CAMPAIGNING AND VOTING IN ELECTIONS
“The United States government and its NATO puppets have been killing Muslim men, women and children for a decade in the name of bringing them democracy. But is the West itself a democracy? Skeptics point out that President George W. Bush was put in office by the Supreme Court and that a number of other elections have been decided by electronic voting machines that leave no paper trail. Others note that elected officials represent the special interests that fund their campaigns and not the voters. The bailout of the banks arranged by Bush’s Treasury Secretary and former Goldman Sachs chairman, Henry Paulson, and Washington’s failure to indict any banksters for the fraud that contributed to the financial crisis, are evidence in support of the view that the US government represents money and not the voters.”
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/02/14/is-western-democracy-real-or-a-facade/
“And perhaps there’s the real problem. If you believe the US is a democracy, if you believe in the rule of the many and not the rule of the few, then the Citizens United ruling could not be more troubling. But what if this is not a democracy? What if this, as Dionne suggests, is an oligarchy of billionaire capitalists? More horrible to ponder, what if democracy is yet more intellectual cover, another one of those illusions, for the exploitation of American workers? Then the theory of the ruling class fits perfectly. Citizens United and the United States were made for each other.”
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/2012311123627435712.html
Translation: If you are on the left and part of occupy, please, please, please help us elect more Republicans by not voting. Then, when we have ALL the power, including the presidency we will declare you terrorists and we'll get our revenge on you for getting out of line!
Heil!
The reason our forefathers came up with our political system was to avoid the tyranny of Kings. Today's 1% Kings have managed to subvert our safeguards with their Republicon political arm, money and media ownership. Continued dereliction of Voting got us here and will keep us here. Right where the 1% Kings want us.
I'm sorry you angry numbskulls who just showed up late to the party, your rejection of the political system we are so lucky to have, out of ignorance or malice, is anti-American, anti-democracy, anti-99%, pro-1%, SABOTAGE!!!
Forget about the rigged elections. Forget about Obama and Romney. Forget about all the other Democrats and Republicans. Focus on Regime Change.
In other words, "Just forget about it!"
Regime change How?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."--Thomas Jefferson
Since the tyrants blood is green I say go for it. Don't even need arms just the courts. Occupy the justice department.
You're late, by about 80-90 years. Plus you have to take out WallStreet first.
It would be more efficient to start with the teabaggers, too.
Okay, tyrant, be careful what you ask for.
You have a point.
No one likes violence, but if something doesn't change soon, the time for peaceful protest will be over.
And it will not be pretty.
"When one hundred million people don't vote, the nation is not bitterly divided. The nation mostly doesn't give a shit." -- Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone writer
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzaaaaazzzzzzzz.....
Did U just get a radio for your birthday?
Go on...
YEAH!!!
Then Vote Dem!
Get out the Vote!!
Vote Dem before you shoot yourself, OK?
Other people.
They don't spend money unless it a sure thing!
Voting, regardless of the money spent, fucks the whole rigged system up.
Don't prove "them" right!
Get out the Vote!
Reject the Hoodlums!
Wave our American flag!
So you must like the Occupy movement if you are so "concerned" about it - which also means that you must like the type of participatory structure and principles that were created by Occupy.
So do you realize how inconsistent, and bordering on just plain idiotic, it is to then try to kick out the very people who created the movement and the structures you like so much?
This comment feels more like divisiveness than constructive "concern"...
Good rebuttal.
Democracy is a messy enough business.
Don't stick fucking, loser, idiotic, numbskull anarchy into it!!!
Anarchy is exactly what the 1% wants in a people's movement: ABJECT FAILURE!!!!
Don't be a troll. Just go yell at traffic!!
The hoodlums are sabotaging the movement.
Then maybe you should retract your original comment and state: "Hoodlums: get lost!"
Reject the hoodlums! Wave our flag!
Wow, that's deep. [sarcasm]
What does that even mean? Who's flag? And what would waving your flag solve?
Really? American.
And what will waving the American flag solve?
This is a PR demonstration to wake the American People to the class war they are sleeping through. The flag communicates who Occupy is and for, instantly and thoroughly ~ Americans!
Did I really have to tell you?
Reject the hoods, embrace the stripes!
Waving a flag wakes people up to class ware, how again?
And should we wear Obama buttons like good little Democrats, too?
Lessor evil, sweety!! There ain't no perfection, not in this world!
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Americans have been choosing the lesser of two evils every two years for several decades now. Americans shouldn't have to settle for the lesser of two evils. And I am one of many who no longer will. If you are not, get the fuck out of the Occupy Movement.
There is not ONE SINGLE thing that you do that is not a choice of lesser or greater evils. NOTHING!
Cons are for the 1% and exclusively man on woman marriage! Dems are for the 99% and marriage equality!
Black Bloc damaged a lot of the reputation of Occupy on the west coast. Occupy is a peaceful protest. Anyone doing anything else is not an occupier.
Also people that praise Obama for the bailouts on Wall street need to get lost too. This is Occupy Wall Street... This is NOT "Give Taxpayer Money to Wall Street."
And before you try and throw out some crap about how my statement must somehow mean I support Romney... I will say that Romney is literally a tool of the 1% and should not be allowed.
How would you disallow Romney if you don't vote?
"And before you try and throw out some crap about how my statement must somehow mean I support Romney... I will say that Romney is literally a tool of the 1% and should not be allowed."
Who said I'm not voting?
There is more than Goldman Sachs and corporatism to vote for in November.
I thought you had said as much in other posts on other threads, or at least that you were going to vote for a third party candidate that had no chance of winning, but would only split the anti-Romney vote.
I must have been mistaken. If so, I apologize.
Romney can't win either. He will lose for the same reason Kerry lost in 2004... he can't inspire his constituents... and he doesn't have a strong backing. His best bet is the "Obama is a socialist" maroons. People that vote for Romney are like "Ugh... I guess." That is why he won't win.
I think Obama has it in the bag. But I'm still going to vote on behalf of my conscience. So I won't be voting for Obama or Romney. I'm still not fully decided. I have to see all the options on the ballot in my state first.
That's what I thought. By voting third party, you are, in fact doing nothing to prevent Romney from getting in despite your statement about how critical that is.
Right now, the republicans are energized, not by Romney, but by their universal hatred for "Socialist" Obama. They will be out in force according to all projections. Currently, Romney is getting hundreds of millions of dollars from corporate America and the banks, and is expected to take in over a BILLION dollars, not including the SuperPacs who are getting even more. Obama, while slightly ahead in terms of money already in the bank, is getting 1/5th the amount he got from corporations during the last election, and is counting on individual donations of $200.00 or less. The SuperPacs supporting him have half the dollars that Romney's already does.
The latest polls indicate that the race is in a dead heat with both candidates receiving 49% of the vote if the election were held today, with the momentum favoring Romney.
If you genuinely believe "Romney is literally a tool of the 1% and should not be allowed" how can you even consider casting a vote that only acts to split that anti-Romney vote, making his chances for being "allowed" that much greater?
Yeah and if you don't vote Bush you're not a patriot. I can't stand that kind of forced opinion. Please don't blame people not voting for Romney if Romney wins. Blame the people voting for Romney.
Romney will not win. Want to bet 10 grand on it? Lulz
I also think Obama is a tool as well. Not quite as much... but still a tool. His work for Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, and Wall Street shows that.
Sorry I cannot vote for candidates that support attacking countries that didn't attack us. That is all there is to it. Had Obama stuck with that stand point... he'd have my vote again. I can't vote for someone who has bombed more countries than Bush. End the wars and End the undeclared wars... Now. End of story.
No more murder of innocent civilians - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/world/asia/united-states-confirms-airstrike-wrongly-killed-afghan-family-members.html?src=twr
There is this thing called the Supreme Court?
Trevor, it was YOU who said that Romney must not be allowed to get in. I am pointing out that there is a complete disconnect between that statement and your proposed action. Whatever your other points are have nothing to do with the simple fact that if Obama doesn't win. Romney does. How is that "not allowing" him to win? What is your plan to deny him the White House, something YOU deemed important?
Romney is denying himself the White House by being Mitt Romney.
Like I asked before, do you want to bet 10 grand on it?
I do not have to vote Obama to keep Romney out of the White House. My tactic of telling truths about him and not voting for Romney is my solution to not getting Romney in the White House.
YOU in caps locks right back at ya!
However I will add that by voting for Obama or Romney, you are voting for Goldman Sachs, war, and Monsanto. Just ask Michael Taylor, the dead family from the link I posted, Ben Bernanke, and Eileen Rominger.
You're telling people the truth about Romeny to keep him out is your solution, but you won't vote in such a way that will help keep him out? Will you be advising your conversation buddies to also not vote against him in a way that will actually count, or will you tell them to do what you refuse to: ensure that he won't get in?
I suppose that somehow that makes sense to you. It doesn't to most others, I'll wager. It certainly doesn't to me.
If Romney was denying himself the White House, he would be getting 49% to Obama's 49% in the polls. The main problem he had on the primaries was that he wasn't insane ENOUGH for the base o primary voters, not because he was shooting himself in the foot. He has the nomination sown up, and he will have significantly more money and a fanatically anti-Obama constituency. I think he will win the election without massive mobilization on the part of the left.
I have said this often: I am no Obama sycophant. But the weight of his misdeeds will be like a butterfly compared to the elephantine tonnage of Romneys in concert with a republican House . The permanent damage he will cause this country will be immeasurable in terms of the Federal and Supreme courts alone. He has already hired Robert Bork (!!!!) as his senior judicial advisor,someone too corrupt even for the Republicans to allow near the Supreme court just a few years ago.
Look at my responses. I will not vote for any pro-war candidate... period. I want the wars to end so I refuse to support the wars. It's like wanting to end the Koch brothers reign by refusing to buy their products.
I will not vote for Obama. I do not care how many more ways you try and spin your game. You're falling into the trap like all the other blind democrats and republicans. Supporting the 2 people who shouldn't be president. The same people Goldman Sachs support and pay money. The same people Monsanto love. The same people the war profiteers love. The same people the banks and the federal reserve love. Don't believe me "Just ask Michael Taylor, the dead family from the link I posted, Ben Bernanke, and Eileen Rominger."
You want things to change... stop supporting their system.
Pardon me, but it was you who said Romney should "not be allowed" in to the White House. You.
Yet you will not vote in such a way as to help keep him out. Your actions and your rhetoric don't match. So which is it? Do you not care if Romney "is allowed" or do you? You can't have both.
Yes and no pro-war candidate should be allowed either. But here's some truth for you... sadly, YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT. We saw that when the supreme court appointed our president in 2000. You're acting like a troll the way you keep going about this and over analyzing my comment to try and fit your weird spin game.
My actions precisely fit my rhetoric.
"I want the wars to end so I refuse to support the wars. It's like wanting to end the Koch brothers reign by refusing to buy their products."
I also won't support anyone who voted for the patriot act, the NDAA, or the Financial Modernization Act of '99 and several other corrupt or bigoted pieces of legislation.
I refuse to support that system. Which is why I won't be voting for Lee Terry or John Bruning in my state either. These people are stealing our rights and causing wars.
BANKS GOT BAILED OUT
WE GOT SOLD OUT
Let's not forget that one
Nonsense. You simply refuse to look at the conflict inherent in your position.
In essence, you are helping Romeny win. If you can live with that, fine. But you can't simultaneously declare you opposition to him.
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Lulz whatever Obama troll. You lost all respect from me with your ridiculous accusations and you will no longer be getting a response since you are not responding logically.
Believe it or not... you can oppose 2 people.
REply to your post below.
Sure, you can be opposed to both as much as you want, but voting third party that can't win does not keep either one of them out. You are "allowing" one to get in regardless. And the one you help the most is the one you specifically said "should not be allowed."
As such you wind up being a Ronmey troll at least as much as you accuse me of being an Obama one.
You are purposely not getting it!
No one is that dense!
That makes you a troll!!!!!
Even Obama wouldn't approve of you and epa1's rhetoric.
That should tell you something.
Hey sparky, I have clues for cheap, dirt cheap, wanna buy one or two or...?
When did young people become soooooo narrow-minded!!!
Reject the hoods and promote the stripes!!
You can't handle the truth!!
Yeah!
It's a cruel and complicated world, exacerbated by naivete and rampant negligence.
You have what YOU vote for. If you don't vote, YOU don't count.
Whether by malice or ignorance, they bleed our democracy.
What "democracy"? When voting is nothing more than a false choice between the puppet on the left hand and the puppet on the right hand of the same ruling elite or a third choice that has no chance of winning, HOW IS THAT "DEMOCRACY"?
Despite some serious overlap, the two parties are NOT the same, and voting for one over the other is NOT a false choice. Only an outright ideologue could ignore the vast differences of their legislative agendas or especially the nature of their court appointments. Ginsburg is NOT Scalia. The differences between the two parties are definitely not big enough in some areas, but in other they as wide as the Grand Canyon.
If you want a third party that's viable, start the work of making one. Start it on the local level and establish it there so when the party starts fielding national candidates it has an organizational foundation to stand upon. It'll take years, but if you're serious about wanting democracy, that's what is necessary. In the meantime continue to vote against those people who would make that process harder. Deny the Republicans from gaining office and turning the courts even more rightward.
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You are late to the party.
The Strawman argument is such an old RepubliCon ploy.
The insidious end-goal to take ever more of our government away from the 99% is aided by the suppressing the Vote and allowing more Cons to take office, means. This disgusting RepubliCon "Citizen United" state of our political system is the result of an electorate being duped by these "means."
Collusion does not need to be cognizance to work! Don't be duped!
Vote!
Mitt would be the cherry on the local, state and congressional Con infestation sundae.
Reject the hoodlums and wave the American flag!
Get out the Vote!
There are? Who? You know how I hate secrets.
Alan Grayson? Bernie Sanders? Russell Feingold? Jarrod Brown?
read your ballot in november
There is a pervasive naivete about how our political system works, and I'm sick of it!
Would you newbies please get educated!!! Read or watch Shock Doctrine, Capitalism, A Love Affair, Idiocracy, etc....
This "Citizens United" state of our political system is a direct result of electorate negligence and dereliction!!! America was/is swindled!
We have a lot of work to do to fix it. Starting with getting 1% political operatives (RepubliCons and DINOS) out of our government, so that we can legislate the money out, too.
Sorry, you don't get a trophy just for showing up... LATE!!!
VOTE!!!
Don't vandalize!
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Which is why we must vote Dem!
And marriage equality!!
And NOT holding the country hostage!!!
Reject the hoodlums ~ Cons!
And embrace the American flag and We the People ~ 99%, for which it stands!!
Grow up!
What are you doing posting in a political forum when you don't even know that anarchism and violence are not synonyms?
Reject the provocateur hoodlums or lose the cause!!
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You are absolutely right. Violence is not a synonym of anarchy. It is a symptom.
Wrong again. You should at least study anarchism before making pronouncements about it.
To these people, studying means turning on Fox News. There's just some people in America who are simply too dumb to reach at this phase (and I'm sorry if this sounds less than idealistic of me folks, but this is just the reality we live in). If someone is barely literate, expecting them to read a book by Peter Kropotkin or someone like that ... seems unrealistic. They'd rather just keep believing their favorite Fox News broadcaster, who continually feeds them myths, like they're the most brilliant people on earth (an earth they often believe is only 6,000 years old) :)
At some point, maybe this can change, but there's enough smart people in America to change our nation and society, and enough poor people who were denied access to many of the things we had the benefit of (like a good college education), who are more inclined to at least sincerely listen to our ideas. So trying to convince the type of conservative who often appears on this forum, is in my view, a totally inefficient use of time.
The 1% work to limit educational opportunities just for that reason; "intelligent design" means creationism; means refusal to acknowledge the reality of our world, the origin of humans, even the origin of the universe.
Time to educate the workers and let them make their own decisions.
Though anarchy is all about bringing down the current governmental system, it's not a philosophy based in violence. Instead, it's a logically derived perspective that seeks to remove oppressive hierarchical systems and replace them with ways of living that are healthy for both individuals and the planet.
That being said:
Black Blocs, and masked-hooded Jack-Offs - GET LOST!!!!
Detention without disclosure congress and the president passed a law allowing
the military to detain people indefinitely without telling the public
No, just you Matlock!!
Reject the hoods, promote the stripes!
Hold on a minute. I'm an anarchist and do not promote or condone violence of any sort. At any rate OWS is an open, leaderless group; there's no membership committee. You can't pick and choose who participates at OWS events. Like KIng Canute you may as well stand on the seashore and command the tide to not come in.
I think it is the core problem with OWS. It can't effectively legitimize itself because it is being led by people who won't lead and for whom the very act of legitimizing itself would be antithetical to their beliefs. The point of OWS should be economic and social justice, not the promotion of anarchistic philosophy. Or is that the only reason the anarchists are there? The end result is more important than the method. There is more than one way to achieve the goal. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.
You and Jiffysquid92 have interesting perspectives considering OWS is an anarchist group. It has legitimized itself and succeeded in a logical, progressive way; it attracted you and Jiffysquid92. The point is social and economic justice through anarchistic methods, which means no rider on a white horse is coming along to save anyone's bacon. The struggle is for each of us to take up, united with others by directing our efforts toward common goals.
If you want a hierarchical organization with neat little structures and leaders, with a PR image that glitters on billboards, you need to found one then ally that group with OWS and similar movements. More or less, you and Jiffysquid92 are trying to fix something that ain't broke.
I don't know anything about Jiffysquid92, but as for me, "attracted" is too strong a word. I am curious as to what drives people to do the things you all do and think the things you all think. When you start talkin' bout bringin' the system down, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow(n). If you sing that last line to the tune of the Beatles "Revolution," it's funnier. I am in favor of economic and social justice. I don't have a problem with bringing the system down, per se, but I want to be damn sure about what it gets replaced with. Hierarchy, lowerarchy, build-yourself-an-arky-arky, it has to actually be effective. Anarchy isn't effective, as demonstrated by the limited results so far. I am not an expert in anarchistic philosophy, but it seems to require everyone, everywhere to buy into the concept simultaneously. That seems implausible to me. And in the meantime, I'm still wanting economic and social justice. OWS was interesting with its first protest and captured the imagination. The longevity and ineffectiveness have turned it into a cartoon, a punchline for latenight comedians. And, before you say it, I'm AWAKE.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not in any way advocate the violent overthrow of the government, but a peaceful transition through direct elections. Incidentally in a plebiscite the voting majority can be a far cry from an actual majority of the population.
I'm not sure what you mean that "anarchy isn't effective." If you mean that it hasn't achieved the results you want: very likely. I appreciate a good joke myself, so I'll have to turn on my television and watch some of those late-night comedians.
Get Jiggy, why don'tcha!
Well, "YouAll," all's you gotta do is just put your ear to the rail, and listen 'bit. Hopefully, before Southern Pacific squashes youall's head like a grape... or not.
No!
Just don't want Woodstock reruns and B-movies teen-rebellions, that's all!!!
Tired of failure. Apparently anarchists never EVER get tired of it!!
Go live up failure somewhere else. Hey, how 'bout the Republican Party/Cult???
It has caught the eyes and ears of America, that IS the essence of Occupy!
Let's make sure THEY don't sabotage it!!
I know tide, I grew up with tide, I was one with tide. Hoodlums of any kind are not tides!
Tides prevail, anarchy just fails!
Then you will be appreciated.
Please carry American flags,too.
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The creator of this website is an anarchist, and since you're the one being vulgar toward them, I'd say you're the destructive one. Please educate yourself on the true meaning of these concepts rather than attacking people with your ignorance.
Occupy success depends on public opinion. Hoodlum-ism sours that opinion. Hoodlums sabotage all the Occupies everywhere.
"Vulgar?" The Strawman argument is such an old RepubliCon ploy.
The insidious end-goal to take ever more of our government away from the 99% is aided by the suppression of the Vote and allowing more Cons to take office and sabotaging any populace movement, means. This disgusting RepubliCon "Citizen United" state of our political system is the result of an electorate being duped by these "means."
Collusion does not need cognizance to work! Don't be duped!
Shun and exclude the hoodlums!
Get out the Vote! Unite and Win!!
What makes you think public opinion is on your side? Our anarchist movement is pretty popular
The problem with Occupy is the groups within, the Anarchists, Socialists, Libertarians, and others each want to use it to bring about their form of government.
What our common goal should be is to give the right to decide which form of government to choose back to all of the people. The current bribery of Congress by a small group of corporations and special interests prevents this.
Our form of government should not be the decision of any separate group, but up to every American.
I wasn't aware that "no government" was a form of government.
If the people want no government, that should be their choice too. I would love to see the people get out from behind their TV's and at least take back their right to choose. That would be an incredible accomplishment in itself.
Anarchy (lawlessness; absence of government) is not conducive to a united, thriving democracy, or a successful populace movement.
You are indeed sheltered and ignorant. The truth is, I'm a hoodlum, and a proponent of chaos, but you have yet to educated yourself on the meaning of these things. Defending your right to continue being vulgar by accusing me of tactics is a tad narcissistic. No, you haven't a clue what a hoodlum or anarchist is. Let me tell you who is violent sir. You are. The all american football loving christian beating up the gay and smacking the asses of unfamiliar women without proposition, that is violent. Those are the people tearing shit up. You haven't met and anarchist sir, you wouldn't recognize it because you refuse to educate yourself. Your ignorance is what is offensive and violent. We are winning, and your instruction has zero impact on that fact.
Isn't it time for your nap??
Get out the Vote!!
I wonder if this is one of those occasions where "somebody" says, "If you won't play the game my way I will take my bat and ball and go home."
I agree with GK (below), no violence and no threats.
Let's help them to the bus stop.
I was a Boy Scout. I learned to help those less fortunate to cross the street safely or even to the bus stop. I have found that if you show up to complain, nobody listens. If you show up to help, pretty soon everybody does.
Big WET Kiss!!!!
Unite and Win!! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
I appreciate the sentiment more than the expression. But the slogan is right on!
Tell a friend or ten!!
Telegraph, telephone or tell a woman.
Yes, definately, they've given us a bad reputation. Also the movement has become to much about anarchy when it should be about democratic socialism.
Can anyone portray a successful anarchy?
Wearing masks, blacking out your face and such will only serve the 1%.
We are the human beings that carry the weight.
They are the masked anarchists who use fraud, usury and an above or around the law approach to life to hoard money.
Show your face! Leave the violence to agent provocateurs.
Reject all hoodlums in the movement. Sport more American flags ~ We the People, 99%!!
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Sweetie-pie, OWS in anarchistic. Anarchists started the movement and are running it. Most are anti-capitalists. More into anarcho-communism/anarcho syndicalism. But I suppose there's a few anarcho-capitlalists out there. Which I think is basically Libertarianism, or pretty close.
OWS is anarchist through and through. It's their show. You're like asking for the blue to be taken out of the sky.
People fail to realize that Congress has a 10% approval rating, that the vast majority of the people are tired of both parties, and that they are STARVING for something new to come along.
This jackass squid wants to turn it into a moveon Obama promo.
I think he wants a strong left movement that doesn't turn people off. News flash - most people just aren't that into anarchy.
Personally, I can't wait to see Pres. Obama win a landslide over that mega douche bag Romney. The Republican party is full of mega douche bag douchery. They can't help falling all over eachother, doing what comes natural to them. Acting like major douche-y bags. It's like an inter-party competition trying to out douche bag eachother on a daily basis. Even Jesus thinks their a bunch of douche bags (see Catholic Bishops letter re: Ryan Budget). I mean Jesus Christ. It's pretty damn douche-y when you manage to douche bag all over your own Jesus-freak base of the party even. Holy freaking Republican douche bag. If that's not extreme douche-bag douche-ry, I don't know what is. But since the Republican party is made of so much idiot douche-ry, they don't even realize when their being douched on by their own douche bags. I think they like it.
Go Obama! : )
Ofcourse Obama is going to win. He's the bankers and war machines perfect face, Why would they replace him with that idiot Romney.
PS- the Republicans nominating Romney just shows that this R vs L crap is for the masses, and they really dont care who is in office up there, as long as they get theirs...
You give the republicans way too much credit .... I think, they really are as fucked up as they seem, a/k/a ... they're not faking it :)
I agree; I think the problem in the U.S.A. is not really the 1%, but rather the 49% that believe the 1%,s b.s..
Look, let's stick to one set of numbers! There's enough confusion with all these fucking little trolls!! With their nasty little wet pink dog pee pees humping on everything!!!! ACK!!!!
Tell her. Fix her. She was so... fine...
Well, if you're right, and Obama is so sure to win, Wall Street, investment banks and other financial institutions (not to mention the Koch Bros) are sure wasting alot of money on Romney.
I think you under estimate the stupifying stupidity of the electorate. People that will continue to vote Republican even as it is against their own economic self interest. People that will vote Republican because they believe Republican's are "God's" Party. It's God and Guns. The party base. People that have next to zero firing brain cells.
And the few that do have firing brain cells - they have religion too - The Church of Ayn Rand Batshit Crazy Free Market Capitalism on Steroids.
You said it (quite perfectly I might add) :)
If Mitt wins, it will not be because of the stupids who went to vote for him, but rather because of the idealistic few who could not bring themselves to vote for Obama 'cause he's being too much of a quisling.
I think its really up to Obama. If he wants to win in November, he had better start bringing about the change he was promising everybody before he got into office. Throwing a few bones out to the people is not enough.
This movement isn't helping. OWS is a Right Wing movement. OWS wants Republicans to win. Because Republican economic policies will further the spread of wealth inequality. OWS wants more people in poverty. It serves their cause.
Pres. Obama, like the rest of us, is up against a thouroughly stupid brainwashed electorate. 50 million shades of Republican crazy, that believe the lies - the wealthy are the job creators, and other such nonsensical bullshit that has been drilled into the mushy brains of gun nuts and Jesus freaks (people who can't distinguish fact from fiction).
30 years of getting pissed on by trickle down economics is not enough to convince these people. They will vote Republican- politicians who exploit the Jesus freaks and gun nuts, in order to enact their batshit crazy capitalism on steroids economic policies.
Austerity in the name of lowering the deficit. Truth is they don't give a damn about the deficit when they spend trillions on unnecessary wars. But to spend a paltry 6 billion on higher education by subsidizing Stafford loans? Whoa! That's way over the line the for Republicans. Why the hell does Wall Street get zero % interest rates from the Fed and Stafford loans cost students 6% in the first place?
Republican batshit crazy economic policies of lower taxes rates on corporations and the wealthy, and further deregulation. They will support Republicans making Swiss Cheese of Dodd-Frank and every other piece of business regulation that is left that they can get their hands on. In the hopes that trickle down economics will piss on them a little more. Because according to very successful Republican indoctrination brainwashing techniques - all Democrats are socialist commies.
While I would love to see the President push harder for change - realistically speaking - what can he do? Even his most modest proposals are met with screaming lunatics calling him a communist, and worse.
The Affordable Care Act - essentially the same program as in Mass. Which is based on Right Wing/Heritage Foundation principles- the mandate. He's a communist because he based healthcare reform on the principle of the mandate - which was developed by the Heritage Foundation 20 years ago during the Clinton healthcare debate. Holy hell. It was right wing legislation 20 years ago. But when Pres. Obama supports it, now it's Communism. These people are truly insane.
What's he gonna do? Go after Wall Street? If he starts a Wall Street Shit Storm, the Right would destroy him. Not to mention, if it's not done carefully, the whole system comes crashing down again. I'm really not comfortable with going after Wall Street in a big way, given the fact that they control like 75% of the wealth of the country. Around $200 trillion in derivatives - 3 times the entire world economy. I want Wall Street brought to justice for their fraud. I want strong Dodd-Frank regulation. I want the banks broken up. But it needs to be done carefully. As it is- the banks are way too powerful. They are busy spending millions making Swiss Cheese of Dodd-Frank. We'll never be able to regulate these vultures with the size they are now. They will dismantle Dodd-Frank piece by piece over time. Until there is nothing left of it. The same way Campaign Finance Legislation has been dismantled piece by piece. But there is steam building for breaking up the banks. The President can't do it. He would be destroyed by the Right wing crazies in a nano-second. http://dallasfed.org/assets/documents/fed/annual/2011/ar11.pdf
The idea that 1% is the problem - that math is all wrong. Half the voting electorate, around 50 million people that vote Republican, is the real problem. Look at Wisconsin and Scott Walker. Half the electorate still plans to vote for him.
Seriously, the base of the Republican electorate are brainwashed batshit crazy stupid embiciles. You can't argue with crazy.
The best Pres.Obama can do is try to convince a few million people, a few million swing voters. Much as I would like to see a landslide, it won't happen. The right wing is too far gone. It will take years and years of de-programming to convince these people that trickle down economics does not work. The fact that they've been getting pissed on by it for 30 years is not enough. They need years of seriously intensive de-programming.
And quite honestly, OWS does not help. It's nothing more than right wing talking points. Anarchists believe the govt is bad. Gee, so does the Right Wing. Tell me what is the difference between OWS and the Right Wing? The OWS core ptb and Republicans both want the same thing. To get rid of government. The reasons are different. The end result is the same. Get rid of government.
OWS is a Right Wing movement.
Additionally, all the anti-capitalist/anarchist/communist rhetoric coming out of this movement just feeds into the worst fears of others on the Right, not to mention swing voters - that all Democrats are anti-capitalist Communists. It just gins up those Paranoid Righties to get the vote out for Romney. Nice work OWS.
I hear you, but...
It's all about perception!
We wake up America, and the righties go back in their hell holes. But this time we have to go and exterminate them.
Gods party just "nominated" a Mormon. Talk about a reality show that is totally staged....
I think you overestimate the realness of this clown show.
lol. That was the best part! That's why the nomination took so long. Romney was the establishment candidate. But those damn Jesus freaks were voting otherwise. Establishment wins of course. But look how long it took. Quite the freak fest.
No worries. He'll pick a strong Christian Evangelical as VP. All the religious righties will fall in line. Their prayers will be answered. And they'll go to the polls and do "God's" work and vote Republican.
And the liberals will go cast votes for the current war monger, the elites puppet. It will be a disgusting display all around.
In the "beacon of freedom" we refuse to think for ourselves.
It was the conse(R)vatives that got the whole kill 'em all ball rollin ' and the Dems ain't got shit on that.
Fuck the GOP!!!!
Fuck 'em twice....they sure got you in their camp.
You ignore everything they've fucked up in Florida. You love 'em and never really complain.
You ignore everything the GOP has fucked up in all the States.
You just like to hate on liberals..It's what you do.
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No Lovebug. What's disgusting is that OWS is a Right Wing movement.
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Have some iced tea, some tequila, sex!
Can be used by, but not actually...
Reject the hoods, embrace the stripes!!
Go back in your hell hole.
Stupendous!
Mitt to challenge Obama over the use of the "four more years" slogan
Marriage Equality!!
Mitt's a cherry on a local, state and congressional Con-Bag sundae.
I knew an April once, I likied.
And what is UR bright idea? RW Troll!!!
Reject the hoods, embrace the stripes!
Get out the vote or we'll lose more rights!!
Interesting points... I too believe they're starving. Perhaps you'll consider this:
Occupy the Vote: Removing Consent of the Governed in Elections
Just a few thoughts regarding removing our consent to be governed in federal elections.
Traditional forms of political protest are only an indirect means of influencing elected officials. This why traditional protest has a limited effect in our republican system — it’s not that it cannot accomplish anything, but rather that it can only accomplish whatever "our" elected representatives are willing to allow…
In our little republic, we, the people, democratically elect representatives who, in turn, are supposed to represent our best interests by making, modifying and annulling the laws by which we govern ourselves. However, at this point in history, our ballot is dominated by a “twin party” system which is beholden to moneyed interests and our representatives are, essentially, bribed and corrupted by those elite and corporate interests to do their bidding. It may be an old political saw, but we really do have the best government money can buy (from an elite point of view).
This is the great open secret of American politics: The system is corrupt, but to challenge it directly (that is by independently offering a full slate of candidates for election) is not only extremely expensive, but requires a high degree of commitment and discipline because it takes significant time to change it. This is because, simply, our founders designed our system of governance for stability, that it might overcome any “momentary passions” of the democratic majority (which they referred to as “mobocracy”). Moreover, any challenge which proceeds on the current basis of “party” politics and campaign financing is open to the same corrupting influences (witness the Tea Party).
Problem is that while our founders may have protected minority rights (read that as the rights of the 1%) from possible tyranny of a democratic majority, they neglected to provide equal safeguards to protect us from them...
www.theMultitude.org
Occupy turns out a Vote or it's Occupy masturbation!
Hey JiffySquid,
Have you had a chance to read David Graeber's article?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-wall-streets-anarchist-roots/
No more hoodlum-ism!!!
American Flags!!
Positive messages.
No more stupid.
And
VOTE!!!!!
Are you aware that this country has never leaned so far to the right? Clearly, the Democratic Party and any supporting organizations such as MoveOn.org and Avaaz, etc. have FAILED miserably!!!! Why do you want to plunk OWS into the same staid structure?
What got it "staid?"
NEGLIGENCE!
Democracy is not a spectator sport.
You get the democracy you vote for, and the US has the lowest participation among democracies.
If you don't vote, you don't count.
Why don't you just go ahead and invite all the Occupy protesters to come back into the false-choice two-party fold and be good little corporate-controlled Democrats?
OK jiffy we're neck and neck on this one, this is great gotem' coming and going on this one, thanks for spurring me to go ahead and post, it really took off.
Unite and Win!
Reject and exclude and discourage and report the hoodlums!
If you look at the governships you see we are setting up for a decade of "states rights" they want to move evrything to the states where ALEC can just write the laws to suit them. I think the Rs could pick up 4 more giving the 33 to 16 to 1, it will states v feds for years
We have a lot of work to do. The Cons have pissed and shat in our political pool for so long, no one wants to get in. It was 1%-Con swindling and a swindled electorate that done got us here. And now we have newbies just now showing up complaining about the whole stinking mess. (Collusion does not need cognizance to work.)
Let's support Wisconsin's effort to throw the rotten RepubliCons (Snot Walker et al) the fuck out. Build on a positive trend, and spread it to Michigan, Indiana, Arizona, and Texass!!
A Vote for a Con is a Vote for the plutocrats in the 1%, John Birch Society Koch Bros et al!!
waller is spending about 25 to 1, the cons from all over are pulling fro him big time, if Walker loses, this thing is going to be big, I think it will be a bell weather, even the "stay out of politics" people hate Walker
Support the people of Wisconsin. Time for corruption to lose Big Time.
Fuck ALEC/Koch Big Money.
It is time for no money politics.
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Let's pull for it!
ALEC owns Ds as well as Rs:
"There are 26 states with Democratic lawmakers that belong to ALEC."
http://www.prwatch.org/news/2012/04/11474/pccc-pressures-democratic-members-drop-alec
So are you saying there are more Ds than Rs or "about the same"?
What I am saying is that Ds and Rs ARE the same: two sides of the same coin, greedy, corrupt and corporate-controlled. The percentages of each openly controlled by ALEC make no difference.
So let me get this straight, being a member of ALEC makes no difference?
Nowhere did I say that. I think you are baiting me for a personal insult, but I'm not going there. What I said was this:
"What I am saying is that Ds and Rs ARE the same: two sides of the same coin, greedy, corrupt and corporate-controlled. The percentages of each openly controlled by ALEC make no difference."
If you can't tell the difference between the Ds and Rs, you are among the blindest people in America and I and other of OWS can only hope someday you open your eyes.
A picture is worth a thousands words, FactsRFun, and no picture illustrates the "difference" between Democrats and Republicans better than this one:
http://evilofindifference.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/march_of_tyranny.jpg
that is funny, but see I have a path to stop all that, you don't, yours is to keep it going, but your new, we will see perhaps someday you will post a thought of your own, and we will see if you have any...
Your "path" is just another way to boil the frogs. And why it won't work is very simple:
You can't BE the problem and SOLVE the problem at the same time.
But I suspect you and your handlers know that.
I know you hate the people's government yet you claim not to hate America, it is clear why you are here reveled in record time I would say.
If it were in fact "the people's" government, I would not hate it.
You must not be aware of it, but that's a core issue for OWS.
(The rest of your comment is unintelligible drivel)
Why not just ignore them?
Do you think that's what Gandhi did?
Would you ignore cancer?
Ignore melodrama, anarchists, the dem establishment, white guy big labor, communists, marxists, the intelligentsia and all the other assorted riff-raf. Raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour. Ignore existentialists too.
By design, demonstrations and protests are "melodramatic," and being pro-people are most often populated by Dems and labor, don't discriminate against differing races, and lean left ~ toward the people. Embrace America and Americans, with the flag. Replace the minimum wage to a LIVING WAGE, closer to $20/hr. And reject hoodlums.
I'm not with OWS but if it was up to me I would put the issue of minimum wage front and center.That's just my opinion.
By contributing ideas to the OWS public forum, you are part of Occupy.
A living wage is one of many things We the People need to address. Reclaiming our government is probably our first obstacle and step leading to doing anything at all! Waking America up to the class war we are sleeping through!!!
Rejecting the hoodlum saboteurs will help!
I think I will stay if it is all the same to you.Very sory if I have caused you any Image problems.We are the straw that stirs the drink.
oh i'd rather go but still up in the air is ridiculous
Whatever, just don't be the dipshit who sinks the cause!
Reject the hoodlums and wave our flag!!
I do reject the D.C and Wall st hoodlums.
Nice, now use your cognitive reasoning to discern who in DC is helping and who is sabotaging.
Marriage equality! Taxing the RICH!!
Cognative says one leads the charge(repubs) one brings up the rear(dems) Both are designed to divide and conquor the people.
Dude, U can't even spell "cognitive" reasoning, Literally!!!
Spell, I can't copy it!
Zombies can only do very simple things, and sometimes not even that.
Sorry to disappoint got vote for whom ever your very little heart likes.
Just VOTE people!
I had to give this a lot of thought before commenting on it, because it goes to the root of what is going on now with the Occupy movement, and I will say how I see it.
Firstly, Occupy is nonviolent by consensus, therefore anyone engaging in violence, no matter who they are, aren't part of occupy.
Secondly, those who engage in acts of vandalism must be aware that each of those acts damages this movement in the public eye, and the battle for public opinion IS the battle of this movement. Therefore, I would say that those engaging in vandalism do not have this movements real interests at heart.
Thirdly, is another issue entirely that our detractors here would like to confuse with the issues of violence and vandalism, and that is the issue of voting, or of participating in established electoral politics.
Voting does not have any effect on participation in this movement. People can either vote or not vote, according to their conscience, and still be in Occupy. This issue is essentially a red herring, and one that our detractors are getting a lot of traction with at the moment, in that everything they do is an effort to divide us.
That is why they keep hammering away at this issue of "political purity." It worked in 1968, so they figure why shouldn't it work again?
I'm in full accord with GK!
I would like to remind all ye rebels and defiants: Our forefathers hashed out, fought out, and came out with a very effective way to keep the tyrants at bay, it was the VOTE!!!!
And it still is.
It wasn't perfect by any means at first. NOTHING ever is!!!!!!!!!!!!! But it was a damn nuisance to the Royalists and Loyalists that still persist today: Republicons!!!!
They would just as soon do away with the vote, as they did in 2000!!
Voting is our REVOLUTION!! That's why "they" spend so much to subvert it. WE have allowed, in our negligence and ignorance, a political situation, a scio-political-economic situation, so odorous to develop that we all smell it. But we are not in sync on who dealt it!!! The plutocrats in the 1% dealt it! It's CLASS WAR!! But we have stupidly been fighting each other. That's what the 1% wants.
The Plutocrats in the 1% want us fighting each other, or causing and committing "crimes" we all understand (especially with COPS and the Crime and Punishment rest). We've been swindled! The real criminals in limousines and mansions never get justice. Only the dufus stealing a six pack or selling some weed.
Quit fighting each other!!! VOTE!!!!!!!!!
And just who died and made you the Imperial Occupier, GypsyKing?!?
You have no right to pass judgments or issue decrees like this!
For anyone naive enough to think otherwise, note that this "GypsyKing" character is NOT an Occupy leader. In fact, he is not even an Occupy protester. Because in fact, he doesn't even live in the United States!
Iron Butt = Tin Pot Dictator
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You forgot to mention truthers. As bad as the trust fund anarchist types are, no group has sullied the reputation of ows more than the abject stupidity of the 911 truth movement.
I don't care much for the entities that try to fly their flags and display their symbols as if they represent Occupy nor do I care much for attention seekers and desperate types who are looking to get famous. I've come across way too much ego in several Occupy scenes.
Our collective democracy has been criminally neglected by We the People, 99%, and cruelly exploited by a plutocratic few in the 1%. We aren't going to win any Olympic events until we learn to take some baby steps. Like voting out all Republicons and Dinos!! Rejecting hoodlums and embracing our flag during events.
What is "our flag"?
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Red, white and blue; stars and stripes, old glory. American flag, it says it all. We need to embrace it. Get behind it!
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Agreed. This is one of the biggest problems facing the movement. And to be honest, im tried of seeing statements like "OWS is anarchists" or "this movement is started by anarchists".
NO ITS NOT.
The truth is that the over whelming majority of this country(of all political backgrounds) see Anarchism as a BAD thing. They see anarchist as being domestic terrorists. Does Occupy spend time trying to redefine the meaning of "anarchism" or do we actually get substantive things done?!
Im not even disagreeing with the claim Anarchy actually has another meaning or started out having other meanings than it does now and that along the way the meaning became negative for whatever reason. BUT the fact is that it is viewed as negative. The fact is that it is viewed as being associated with violence.
Occupy needs to focus on whats important. If this movement turns into just being rowdy and violent just for the sake of it this movement is dead. I find it unbelievable to see people trying to tie this movement to Anarchism. I don't think these people actually want to see this movement succeed...
Get serious about trying to accomplish something real or take the violent BS else where. Anarchists are whats going to bring this movement down. Not Faux News or corrupt Politicians and Corporations.
Just because you are tired of seeing statements that truthfully state the movement was started by anarchists doesn't mean that you can then come up with your own set of facts to state that it wasn't. Whether you like it or not, it was started by anarchists, and some of the most basic principles of the movement are anarchism, through and through.
However, your concern about the negative stigma that is falsely attached to anarchism and whether the word should be used in associating it with occupy is valid. In the beginning I thought one of the most genius things about the occupy movement was how so many people, who had no fricking clue what anarchism actually stands for, were so incredibly supportive of the movement and the IDEA of occupy - an idea and movement that is based on the most basic of anarchist principles.
I had numerous conversations with my progressive and centrist friends who were totally excited about the movement but who had no clue that it was based on anarchist principles. When I told them about this the look on their face was priceless. - more importantly, it also opened a new door in their understanding of what anarchism was.
But as soon as the ruling institutions caught onto it we quickly began to see the smear job and dirty tricks being used to undermine the movement that directly challenged their systems. And now they have the upper hand, again. So, yeah... I think it's time to openly talk about whether the name should be used and associated with the movement.
Here is an interesting historical bit about anarchism. In the 1890's, the French anarchist congress adopted to use the name "libertarian" instead anarchist to get around the anti-anarchist laws that were set up by the French state, and to avoid the negative views the general public had about the word. So, it seems that anarchists nowadays could take a bit of advice from their past brothers and sisters... that's just my 2 cents worth.
I see what you're saying. So are the "anarchist" principals that this movement was supposedly found on at least non-violent principals?
Either way I do think that due to the mass negative stigma around Anarchism, the movement needs to move away from the word. Its just not worth bringing down an entire movement out of pride of a word thats definition has basically been associated with violence for over a century.
Thanks for keeping an open mind and seeing where I am come from. I think I understand better where you're coming from and your views. And thanks for sharing some of that history.
Endgame wrote... "I see what you're saying. So are the "anarchist" principals that this movement was supposedly found on at least non-violent principals?"
-- You "see" what I'm saying, but by putting parentheses around the word anarchist, and writing the word supposedly in your sentence, it is clear that you still prefer to cling to your revisionist history of how this movement started. Why is that? There is clear documentation and evidence of who, and how, and by what principles this movement set into motion.
It's all transparently in the open; saved in the archives for anybody to read: http://www.nycga.net/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/
You are claiming (in other posts) that you have been a part of the occupy movement for sometime now... but then you have to ask if it was founded on non-violent principles? Your position is beginning to show signs of inconsistency.
As for the part about the mass negative stigma attached to the word anarchism... it is something that should definitely be discussed. However, at this point, I'm not really sure that I wish to spend time discussing this here with you until the above points of mine are addressed.
Take care
Name a single successful anarchist state???
Name an accomplishment???
Anarchy is a tactic, not a form of government.
Reject the hoods and embrace the stars and stripes ~ We the People ~ 99%!!
Well, one accomplishment is that they started the biggest organized movement the US has seen since the 70's. It's called... Occupy! Have you heard of it? It's a pretty big accomplishment!
Joining a protest against problems caused by political negligence (an anarchist signature), is not an accomplishment.
Waking America up to a class war they were asleep for, is.
Preaching further political negligence and condoning vandalism and hoodlum-ism is sabotage! Like Lord of the Flies!
"Joining a protest against problems caused by political negligence (an anarchist signature), is not an accomplishment."
How is political negligence an anarchist signature? Be specific, with real examples.
Anarchists are running this movement. Their goal is to promote anarchy. It's their belief that anarchy is the solution. As in - abolish the government.
So no. I doubt very much that the movement is going to "move away from the word". The whole purpose is to spread the concepts of anarchy. Anarcho-syndicalism mostly. As an alternative to capitalism and representative government.
Reject the hoods, promote the stripes!
Get out the Vote!
Reject vacuous slogans!
Reject rebels without a clue!
Reject vacuous slogans!
Still waiting for your grand ideas.
Well, I believe you are the one who is crying and screaming to kick out the people who and got the Occupy movement started with the principles still being used to this very day. I mean you are the one with the grand idea of wagging an American flag to solve the problem. Jeffybaby... you are a waste of my time. Take care and keep on repeating those vacuous slogans while continuing to believe that you can somehow think for yourself.
And you go ahead and keep sabotaging a united 99% front to get our government back, we all know where you stand now.
Hoodlums not welcome, go elsewhere!!!
Is that so? Where do I stand, jeffybaby? I stand with telling the truth, while you would prefer to shoot the people who started the movement in the back. Fucking coward.
The Strawman argument is such an old RepubliCon ploy.
The insidious end-goal to take ever more of our government away from the 99% is aided by the suppression of the Vote and allowing more Cons to take office, means. This disgusting RepubliCon "Citizen United" state of our political system is the result of an electorate being duped by these "means."
Collusion does not need cognizance to work! Don't be duped!
Vote!
Where is the straw man in asking where I stand? You are the one who falsely accused me a sabotaging the 99%.
I will vote.. for any candidate who voted NO on NDAA, and HR363. Any politician who voted yes on these 2 bills has violated the constitution and deserves a swift kick out of office for not protecting our basic rights.
Anarchy (lawlessness; absence of government) is not conducive to a united, thriving democracy, or a successful populace movement. But I never advocated "lying" or "shooting."
And we don't live in a perfect world, or have perfect pols. It's all a compromise, but there are many huge differences in politics. Ignoring that is counterproductive.
There is no democracy without Votes.
One of the biggest threats to totalitarianism is a united and thriving democracy.
America is a nation of laws and an experiment in democracy (government).
Occupy's successes will come from public acceptance and lawful democratic reforms, or not at all.
Unite and Win!
Get out the Vote!!
You didn't answer my question. But thanks for your copy n paste spam message.
I'm a troll... how so?
Don't mention it, but to be honest (something yo have a problem with) I don't write for you. You are a troll.
We have to be proactive. Reject all hoodlums. Carry more American flags. Protesting and reversing the 1% takeover of our democracy and economy is what America was founded on. We the People, 99%!
Says some hack on his computer, typing away like he actually participated...
i could also ride a bike and sing
This is an idiot!!!
And, oh look, the trolls love him.
ForumSpeak: The True Meanings of "Spam", "Troll" and "Karma":
spam : Any forum posting that (a) conflicts with either the forum moderators' agenda or groupthink consensus; or (b) any other forum member disagrees with, doesn't like, fears or otherwise does not wish to see posted.
troll : Any forum member who posts "spam" as defined above.
karma : A numerical measure of forum groupthink contribution, conformity and compliance that says nothing about the virtues of the poster or the veracity of their postings.
Stinkle: stinkle
So are you saying he's wrong because he didn't participate or because people really do want to associate with hooded and masked hoodlums?
Im saying that he should either let us be, or go start his own thing.
All this armchair quarterbacking from those who dont do shit is getting old.
You drink too much of your own bathwater!
Voting is how we make progress. Protesting gets the votes!!
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"Ask anyone who observed May Day who WAS thinking about joining the Occupy movement near them: They don't want to be associated with hooded and masked hoodlums!!!
Perception is everything!!!"
Ask them if they want to be associated with marxists, socialists, communists, or people who rant and rave constantly that those who disagree with them are retarded (the word used here) sociopaths, animals, narcissists, etc. It's all on francisjenkins thread about conservatives, and in those words too. Ask them how they perceive THAT mentality and speech too.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-conservatives-are-either-evil-or-brainwashed/
You make Marxists, socialists, and communists sound evil or unpleasant. I'm surprised; I was not aware those ideologies somehow alienated one from the mainstream of American society. Or is it only those people you associate with that hold such a view?
Then perhaps you need to talk to more people from mainstream American society. I see you stopped short of including "people who rant and rave constantly that those who disagree with them are retarded, sociopaths, animals, narcissist etc." Maybe you don't find that behavior evil or unpleasant either.
I don't like ranting, raving, name calling or any other type of rude behavior. Most Americans probably don't either. I normally associate with a wide variety of people from working men, to business men, etc. etc. on a daily basis. I haven't found very many who consider Marxism, socialism, or communism evil as ideologies. They may disagree, even dislike countries, which have implemented and corrupted such systems, but don't consider the ideologies themselves evil or unpleasant.
I notice you leave out right-wing propagandists like Rush Limbaugh, et al in your condemnation of rude people. Is that because you don't believe them rude, people to dislike and, in extreme cases, even to consider evil? Or do you only find those, who oppose your beliefs and call you names, rude, unpleasant, and evil?
Stop.
America has been brainwashed (long ago) in thinking anything that is for the people is bad. Commie et al. Did U awake from a coma? Or R U a teen? U R only giving them fuel. Fuel to burn OWS.
Stop.
If I, like you and "most Americans" don't like ranting, raving, name calling or other rude behavior, then my outrage should apply equally and immediately to ANYONE who engages in such behavior shouldn't it?
This thread wasn't about the behavior or speech of "right wing propagandists like Rush Limbaugh", it was about OWS. If I want to address Rush Limbaugh's rude, distasteful or "evil" behavior with any hope of affecting it in the future, wouldn't it make the most sense to address that on Rush's boards/forums?
Yet you brought up all the previously posted, negative behaviors, when I simply questioned your view on political ideologies, which you mentioned. I don't know a thing about Rush Limbaugh's boards or forums, but it doesn't it make sense that if you question francismjenkins behavior on specific points, you would also question the behavior of others, who may agree with your world view, I mean to be fair?
Absolutely. That WOULD be the fair thing to do wouldn't it? :-)
I look forward to examples of all that fairness from OWS members questioning the behavior of others who might agree with their world views.
Thanks, I appreciate your agreement and humor.
As for other OWS "members," I can't answer for them. I believe everyone has a right to his or her own world view, whether I agree or not. I would fight for that idea. Oh, I guess that's already been said more or less.
WITCH!
Rush Limpaw is a Big Lie propagandist, piece of filthy shit that you on the right have elevated into fascist stardom.
Probably a major source of your criticism of the Occupy movement. Since none of you have an original thought! Believe, don't think. Very much in accord with the hoodlums that try to infect the Occupy movement. Get Lost!
Indeed, perhaps there were some witches that escaped from MA to PA!!
Ask them if they VOTE??!!
The garlic, holy water, and crucifix to the SATANIC RIGHT!!!!
Don't you dare!
That IS occupy. You are the just the useful idiot (sorry, Marx' word, not mine) who enables them to create chaos.
You are the would-be saboteur.
There is plenty of room for idiots here! It seems to be an idiot convention.
Viva anarchists! Viva l'France!
Hello President Romney.
transparent government actions
Opaque Votes!!!!
Reject the hoods, VOTE!!!
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You say:
"OK Anarchists, Black Blocs, and masked-hooded Jack-Offs: GET LOST!!!"
I ask:
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR FUCKING MIND?
The Global Revolution in general and the Occupy Movement in particular would not exist if it weren't for Anarchists, you Demopublican plant! And if I was one of the Anarchists moderating this forum, YOU and your co-optation accomplices would be the ones hearing "Out of here assholes!!"
NO YOU IDIOT!!!!
The idea is consensus, not violence. Idiot!
GET OUT!!!
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Veron is right: Anarchism and violence are not the same thing, either politically or practically.
You ARE veron, idoiot.
What does "idoiot" mean?
Reject the hoodlums and sport more American flags.
And get out the vote!!
When we don't vote the RW crazies get elected and they put anti-same sex marriage amendments in their constitution.
Turn away, and lose!!