Forum Post: OccupyWallStreet, time to speak now, while someone is still listening...
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 24, 2011, 12:36 p.m. EST by SavetheWorld
(14)
from Jersey City, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
You know people, I really think now is the time for the movement to make a real statement and demands, while it is a hot topic on the media. Otherwise, I can see it, give a few months, media will be ignoring the movement for the next hot topic that will get them ratings.
I know that a lot told me that if the movement make a list of demands and statement, it will be ripped upon, criticized, ridiculed, and go through the needle and use it against the movement.
But you know what, that's what a lot of winners and radicals that changed the world faced.
For example: Iphone? Nokia, Blackberry, even Microsoft ridiculed it before it released, now its one of the most recognized and sought after product. Now, I know that this may sound ridiculous, but that is the best example I can think of right now.
People, let's face it, we are now in the real world, not in school anymore. People will have differing opinions, even opinions that you don't like and will make you angry. But if this movement doesn't make its real demands (someone posted a list of demands and people are claiming that it isn't official), then this movement will face a big humiliation in the coming months when this movement is no longer the hot topic.
You can label me a troll or whatever you want, but that is my opinion, and I am willing to fight for it. If you don't make yours, how are you going to make people listen to your demands if you are not going to talk?
Here are our demands through consensus
https://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=a5QsFIDGIz943Z%2bYwM%2bXgBo2phFRQxT%2b9fchUjirUhk%3d
troll. this has been discussed and put down. we don't do demands because demands are for terrorists and morons. you promoting mere demands proves you are operating against ows and without a conscience and without moral clarity. quit trying to co opt the movement.
So you're resorting to calling him a troll because he would liketo see the movement go forward? Do you honestly think that all of a sudden every banker is going to go, "Oh, we've been screwing people over... maybe we should do things differently now". You're narrow mind is part of the problem of OWS. Everyone thinks things are going to magically change without a list of things they want changed. I'm a project manager and I can promise you it doesn't work that way. Call me a troll all you want but I can assure you people don't change without you telling them what needs to change in the first place.... and no, "Down with capitalism" doesn't work either.
there is nothing moving foreward abou t demands. we have explained and listed why no demands. we are not moving backwards , so, no demands.
the narrow minds are the ones who keep trying to go the route of demands despite the fact that any sane mind understands that demands are pointless.
a list of things we want changed is a fine idea. no reason to call those demands and no reason to stop doing the work after making a single paragraph. we need a detailed political platform. not demands.
it has in fact been dtermined by GA, this has been discussed, so there is no reason for confusion. anyone still promoting demands is doing so expressly at odds and against what OWS is doing, saying, and asking for itself.
the people who want "demands" are the oligarch media because then they can paint us as terrorists.
The people in the streets do know what they want and I've heard dozens state their case. For those that say that the OWS crowd don't know what we want you are not listening or you're not watching/reading real news. Try watching independent news.
As for myself there are many things I believe need to be changed but one of the main things we need to change immediately is the overwhelming influence that the huge trans-national corporations have over not only our governmental and economic system but over everyones (all nations) societies. This is the single thing that seems to be the unifying corrupting force that is bringing everything down. Remember these guys are claiming themselves that they are "too big to fail" that they make more money than most if not all nations. They are writing legislation themselves for themselves and then handing it to OUR legislators and making them pass it. It is time to break these guys up into small institutions. Make them "small enough to fail" like the rest of us, like true capitalism is supposed to work. Make it so all of us can compete FAIRLY like capitalism is supposed to work. Make it so that small businesses work for our country instead of for whatever countries laws can be manipulated best for huge multi-nationals at the expense of every other nations populations.
We already have the tools for this in place it's called the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. It's time to break these huge multi-nationals up into smaller, competitive, "small enough to fail when they are inept and corrupt," businesses so the rest of us can compete and not have to bail them out to the tune of trillions of dollars every five or so years.
statements that differ from each other...
I got: "Let's get rid of money", "Turn Workers Rage to a Movement (call for communism)", "Um, um, um, um.... I'm really flustered right now, can you come back later" and many more... some of them I can rally behind too like Jail the bankers.
You must be extremely lucky if you talk to the people hanging out in Portland or so that talks to you intelligently all the time.
As Americans watch the misguided Occupy Wall Street protesters continue to press their disjointed, anti-capitalist, anti-American message, it seems that it might be time for a counter effort aimed at Hollywood. After all, the movie and entertainment industry has, for the most part, echoed themes similar to the Occupy Wall Street crowd.
The demand for Robin-Hood-like schemes, of take from those who work to hand over to those who don’t or won’t, is standard Hollywood fare. Businesses, entrepreneurs and job creators are almost always depicted as thieving.
Long before President Obama began fomenting unrest through his anti-business policies and class warfare tactics, Hollywood had led the charge with its consistent depiction of business owners as greedy and grasping manipulators.
For years, whether on television or on the big screen, Hollywood has chosen to demagogue business owners, entrepreneurs and almost anyone who dares to endorse a capitalist enthusiasm for self-advancement and upward mobility.
Whether it is spoofing idiot managers for the past six years in The Office, or punishing greedy businessmen, willing to risk their lives to corner a market in Inception, Hollywood has had nothing good to say about the kinds of people who make the money, who pay the taxes and who create the jobs that have made the United States the greatest nation on earth.
Occupy Hollywood could be a movement that would give form and voice to Hollywood’s biased and consistently unfair depiction of business owners. Think about it—when was the last time that Hollywood had a lead character who was a businessman who was a positive role model? What about the 2011 production of Atlas Shrugged? The limited-run movie about the importance of individual liberty and limited government interference in business? Oh, right—that was produced without the blessing of mainstream Hollywood, and supported and promoted in part by FreedomWorks, the Tea Party and Andrew Breitbart.
Another positive business role model was Anthony Hopkins in the 1998 remake of Meet Joe Black—oh no! that’s right -- in the movie, Hollywood sends Death to kill Hopkins who plays a businessman whom Death says had led an admirable life. “Death and Taxes” as the movie says.
Arguably, the last positive depiction of a business owner in a movie where the entrepreneur was the lead character (and lived) was the 1996 movie Jerry Maguire.
The eponymous Jerry Maguire was a character who would be familiar to almost any American who started a business with big dreams and little capital, to anyone who used his savings, who scrimped and worked slavish hours to get his business off the ground--not asking for handouts or government. Jerry Maguire was the kind of guy who could have been found starting a business in any city in any town in the U.S.
Jerry Maguire summed up best what it means to start a business: ” I am out here for you. You don't know what it's like to be ME out here for YOU. It is an up-at-dawn, pride-swallowing siege that I will never fully tell you about, ok?”
Jerry Maguire, a entrepreneur who had a dream of creating a different kind of business, using a different kind of business model, who was willing to risk all he had and put everything on the line in the hope of success—and who, in the process transformed an industry, represents the type of risk-taker that this country needs desperately.
I think thats one of the biggest problems right now...
young generations are being fed with idealism and being pampered. Every rich guy is a bastard, Live the good life. So these kids grow up wondering, when their boss tell them, get out the here bobby, you're a loser!
making demands is stupid and infantile. for change we must generate a detailed political platform including new laws, and then put our people in office.
the oligarchs will not capitulate to mere demands in any case.
So your idea is detached from grown up reality.
Whats needed is problem solving process and direct democracy and open source science centered work.
etc.
so.
come help with that.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
Your idea is even detached from reality far away more than mine. How are people going to adapt to that idea if you don't make people hear your idea????
Even the Third Reich didn't pop out of thin air. It started when Hitler started making statements.
again. you can have an infantile temper tantrum of demands and gain nothing, or you can take personal responsibility and problem solve the problems deeply and have evolutionary change.
Choose. one. or . the .other.
Solving the problems with noone even knowing your intentions will just create even more problems, like being met with hostility....
Did it not get a single iota of idea to your brain that you know, make a statement and solve the problem?
How about saying, you know world, we have this problem and we have to fix it, and we can fix it doing so and so...
oh, i have. over and over. but you won't read.
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
And right now, I dont see these ideas at the news or even to the people i speak at the occupy movement. are these ideas a big secret... that only a secret club like OccupyWallStreet knows?
no one at the occupy movement i spoke with mention to me about the paradigm shift.... its all about anti corporations.... Heck even a girl i spoke with says, "lets get rid of money"
So, is this movement so disorganized or so badly formed that each person is protesting differently? If that is the case, your idea is more ridiculous now, because, even if someone is in the movement, they may not neccessarily agree with some of the links you posted.
the way forward evolutionarily is clear. sooner or later it has to go that direction. Clearly you don't understand what a paradigm shift is, its the same thing ows is fighting for obviously.
your final point is more or less true, but, you miss the point that points of commonality are being ironed out and the truth is just one thing.
so you basically admit that the movement is still disorganized, doesn't have focus. And if this movement tries to take action now, you know what, it will be going in circles.
the way forward you claim is clear is not true. Because right now, the movement is riddled with people who have different ideas. Each person i talk to has different ideas on how to improve the situation.
and speaking of truth, what an irony. someone release a statement, "oh, this is not the real list of demands. occupy wall street does not support of demands" and then when someone asks for the movements demands, "oh we dont want you to know, cause the big evil corporate media will pick it apart". Cant even get the truth out of this movement.
you saying it will be going in circles... seriously.. as if you can via saying something make it so or have predictive power in this.. LOL.
of course everyone has different ideas. this changes nothing. of course the way forward i point to is clear and true, your just being an idiot.
there is no truth to get. the ADULT contingent of OWS realized that "demands" is stupid and infantile. morons and dupes continued on with creating lists of demands despite OWS rejecting the idea.
Its not that we don't want the world to know, its that demands in and of themselves are shallow and irrational, and don't help things to move forward.
quit being part of the problem and more stupid moronic BS i have to whack a mole put out fires over.
dude, I've seen your name attached to a number of posts calling people names, telling them they don't know what they're talking about....
what's your story? abused as a child?
no one is going to listen to you, and because of you, many will chalk up OWS is infantile and temporary.
quite the opposite, many people are listening to me, and because of my work there is a slim chance that ows can be effective- IF everyone stops being ignorant and stops playing games and listens up.
your pathetic ad homs are not interesting nor relevant to me.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
HAHAHAHAHA
Thanks for being consistent!
I agree. Wholeheartedly. I wonder what the petition workgroup is doing.
well when I see the protesters on the streets. Its clear that the movement doesn't know what it really wants.
The movement is all like, we don't have one voice, everyone is welcome to make their stand... we dont have a single demand! we are not a single group. But as I see it, its just an excuse, excuse for the movement to have different people, even whackjobs to be in the occupy whatever city, so the movement can boast they have large numbers.
The movement has nothing... just boasting big numbers, because different groups have taken over the movement. just posting links from different documentaries, like american dream and stuff, linking to different articles... Can't somebody make his own damn opinion.
OWS does not need the corporate controlled media with their pretty Logos.
the corporate controlled media you people hate is pretty much the best avenue to get your points across. No matter what smearing campaign they will do, if you have a good enough point, people will see it through the bullshit.
What are you gonna say, we can do it, by internet? People will not going to flock to the movement if you are making them reach to you, you have to reach to them with your opinion