Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: OccupyTheConstitution Faults Freedom

Posted 5 years ago on Dec. 31, 2011, 8:15 p.m. EST by Nanook (172)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Despite claims to the contrary, a simple logic check shows that our Constitution is a disaster. Not only was it written based on the assumptions of a long gone society, it is filled with inconsistencies and misused words. Let me single out one concept as an example of flawed logic for this post - the word: FREEDOM.

There was a post from @flavian on http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/ that shows an interesting example of how many people think about freedom:

@flavian: "Why fight me? Because I want freedom? Real freedom? The kind we never had before?

To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.”

My reply to him was:

"Oops! You left out a word: RESPONSIBILITY! NONE of the controls you listed would be needed if humans took the "responsibility" to follow the "rules". And why do we need rules, you might ask? Simple. To COORDINATE the actions of MANY PEOPLE using the same resources. And why do we need coordination, you might ask? Because life is complex. For example, you can't just drive a car anywhere, anyway you want. If you did, you'd conflict with the "freedom" of other people by crashing into them and end up hurting both them and you."

The point is, most people truly misunderstand the concept of freedom. They actually believe they can have it and, furthermore, are ENTITLED to it. While the concept of freedom can be used as a GOAL, actual freedom does not exist! Nor can we make it exist. It is logically impossible. It's just an idealized concept. As long as there are two or more people who are restricted in some way to use a common resource – air, water, land, roads, buildings etc. – then "absolute" freedom is impossible. And even if a person goes off to live alone, freedom of action is still limited by the environment and material reality. People can't breath underwater like fish or flap their arms and fly like birds. Absolute "freedom" is a myth! We just have to GET OVER IT!

That doesn't mean we can't have a LOT of freedoms. We just have to learn to do much better as a society at providing them than we are doing now. There is a long discussion about freedom at http://A3society.org on the Democracy tab. There have also been many posts about freedom on occupy forum sites. Some that I've collected can be found at http://a3societyblog.org/ Search for: freedom.

Going back to the original point of this post, the use of many words throughout the Constitution are FLAWED. These words offer things that can not be achieved under ANY logical circumstances. And politicians who make promises to deliver those things are playing on the citizens like fools.

So, please chime in here and list things you believe are true FAULTS in statements made in the Constitution related to the concept "FREEDOM" in general. Each of the individual freedoms addressed in the Constitution will be discussed elsewhere on individual pages of their own. So far, there are pages for freedom of: belief, free will, religion, speech, press, assembly, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. To see the whole list, check the index at http://A3society.org/OccupyTheConstitution-Index .

(This post is part of a collection of posts aimed at launching a new process called the National Opinion Collection System (NOCS). For more information on the process, see http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupytheconstitution-introduction/ )

1 Comments

1 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by cubedemon (185) 5 years ago

One person who truly understands. Thank You. The typhoid Mary case proves what you say to be true. If we truly had absolute freedom it would contradict other inalienable rights. Therein lies the problem. Are some inalienable rights more inalienable than others? Contrary to what some say I say yes. To those who believe in these inalienable rights as an absolute when do yours end and mine begin?

Should one person or a group of people be allowed to buy up all of the land and water on the planet earth? Technically, it is their right to do so according to our right to pursue happiness and if they obtained it it would be their property. This person(s) has absolute power and gained it through economic means. Should this be allowed to occur? If they start infringing on people's lives does this person right to their property and the pursuance of the whole earth become null and void?