Forum Post: Occupy Wall Street needs to state the solution to the problem
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 26, 2011, 8:07 p.m. EST by youthamerica4occupy
(10)
from Los Angeles, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This movement has done an excellent job at stating the problem: that our CONGRESS IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. As a result, our country has been left in a state of disarray.
But I think it is imperative to educate people all across America that the reason we need to band together is to PUT PRESSURE ON WHICHEVER PRESIDENT THAT WANTS TO BE ELECTED TO STATE THAT OUR CONGRESS IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, THAT LAWS CAN NO LONGER BE PASSED THAT ARE GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE!
Can you imagine what would happen if our president, the conscience of the people, said such a thing?
THIS IS WHAT WILL CREATE CHANGE! I think Occupy Wall Street and all Occupy movements across America need to state a clear objective to a solution. Only stating the problem is not enough.
I repeat, pressure needs to be put on the president to acknowledge the problem that our Congress is bought and paid for publicly so that people everywhere will WAKE UP!!! NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNTIL THIS HAPPENS.
We should not only peacefully assemble with a clear objective, to be loud enough to be heard, to put pressure on our President to say this, but also to educate the percentage of American people that JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE POINT IS!!!
You are absolutely correct! The other posters are also correct that the president is bought and paid for (as well as every candidate running). The legalized bribery and pay-to-play system of politics has become institutionalized to the point that you have to bow down to the corporations if you even want a chance to run.
We cannot count on our politicians making the needed changes - they love the status-quo, it is their bread and butter. It is going to have to be a MASSIVE public out cry and most likely a grass-roots effort to push for a constitutional amendment to get the influence of corporations and special interests out of our politics.
I have seen polls suggesting that the vast majority of Americans support having less corporate influence in our politics. That part of the battle is already won. But so far the establishment has done a good job at marginalizing OWS and the message is not getting across.
I find it interesting that at the office where I work there were several people that made fun of the protests and then with their next breath (literally) they said they wished their son or daughter could get a job and move out of their basement. They don't seem to connect the dots. They are so distracted by the "right vs. left" hometown football rivalry that they do notice that both parties are laughing all the way to the bank at the expense of American Democracy. That said, after talking more in depth with them, in almost every case they agreed with me that we need to get the disproportionate influence of corporations and special interests out of our politics. This is the message of all messages!
Yeah, most people missed the movie Gangs of New York. That's how business in America has been done since the very start. It is also actually based on a true story. Check it out.
Well, I understand that our president can accept campaign contributions and make promises, but isn't it true that it's Congress that have the say in which laws get passed? Isn't it true that it's Congress who is bought by the lobbying firms?
OK, I get your point that a president that was a Senator before he was president could be bought and paid for, but are all of them?
I would think that a good president would be placed in the predicament of never having a single one of their proposed laws passed if they piss Congress off, right?
In any case, I don't see that as mattering. We can still protest with an objective to put pressure on anyone who wishes to be elected to either publicly acknowledge that our Congress is bought and paid for, even if he wants to admit that he was as well prior, it doesn't matter. What matters is that we put the pressure on him. So basically we as a people are stating, either admit to it or you don't get elected.
Can't Americans simply choose to just not vote until the change happens? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. There needs to be a clear objective to create any sort of change, and with the problem, a solution needs to presented--does it not?
And yes, I agree with you about the educating of other people. First people must understand it themselves. I admit that I've only begun to scratch the surface due to the uprising of these movements. When I was almost 18, I watched the entire process of what happened when Bush and Gore were running. I was extremely disappointed and lost all hope in the voting system altogether. Was I a little extreme in that notion? Maybe, but I believe that was a turning point. Our whole country saw that and probably saw the same thing I did: My vote doesn't really count!
Anyway, I'm sort of rambling off topic. I do understand your point about a "peaceful protest". A non-violent protest would've been more appropriate here.
End campaign donations. REinstate Glass Steagall. mission complete for 2012.
OWS did a pretty good job exercising the 1st Amendment right to peaceably assemble. There is a group called The 99% Declaration that is working on exercising the 1st Amendment right to 'petition the government for a redress of grievances'. This process is akin to what was done by the Founding Fathers which led to the Declaration Of Independence.
To be effective this petition has to be shown to be broad based and widely supported. This group was borne out of OWS at the NYCGA and is a working group on the NYCGA site. OWS could be the foundation for building the support necessary.
There are at least three major advantages in adopting this proposal. First, OWS would begin speaking with one unified voice, the National General Assembly (NGA) aka Third Continental Congress aka parallel congress. The NYCGA by default became the voice of OWS even though it has tried to deny it's role. This NGA solves the problem of legitimacy for the movement. Secondly, there is a timeline that has definite objectives. The elections of delegates is only 88 days away! The NGA is set for July 4th so you can see there is much to be done in a very short time. Some of the other proposals such as constitutional amendments, an Article V Convention, the 'Get Money Out' campaign, etc are not working on a committed timetable and are to some degree dependent on the current politicians. The NGA is completely independent of all that. Thirdly, the document produced at the NGA will pressure the politicians to answer some very difficult questions during the election. If you think about it, just the fact that there is a National General Assembly should cause almost every politician to break out in a sweat ; )
http://www.the99declaration.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk_Resolves
"but something more must be done to bring about united action. There must be some central authority to which all the colonies could turn for guidance. This political union came about in the formation of a Continental Congress"
http://www.usahistory.info/American-Revolution/Lexington.html
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How easy is it to pressure congress
to do what 83% of Americans want?
Are you ready
.....................FOR ACTION ?
Are you ready to
.....................DO SOMETHING REAL ?
Are you ready to
......................join 83% ........ of Americans ?
We must not
DEMAND that we WANT THEM.to give to US
We must
DEMAND GOALS THAT WE WILL ACHIEVE FOR OURSELVES
Because of the Supreme Court's decision,
we cannot accomplish anything significant, without FIRST -
Overturning Citizens United !!!
Ending Corporate Personhood !!!
83% of Americans already agree on it
as stated in the ABC/Washington Post poll
In the the PFAW Poll -
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO ACT ----> JOIN US TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one task the MAJORITY.
Join the OWS Restore Democracy Working Group at
..............http://www.nycga.net/groups/restore-democracy
regular meetings 6-8PM @ 60 Wall St – The Attrium @ Wednesdays
Plan details with supporting documentation at:.... http://bit.ly/vK2pGI
IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO ACT ----> JOIN US TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE
TO END CORPORATE PERSONHOOD
Whereas --
The OWS Declaration of the Occupation of New York City states that
"a democratic government derives its just power from the people,
not from corporations."
and --
the ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 83% of the entire US population
opposes the Supreme Court Citizens United decision,
which affirmed that corporations are people.
and --
by supporting the overturning of corporate personhood,
OWS clearly aligns itself with the vast majority of the American people
who support ending the fundamentally flawed and anti-democratic concept
that corporations are people.
therefore --
We support a constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood.
As the "Occupy Wall Street" protests enter their 5th month, members are wrestling with an issue as old as the Athenians who first hatched the idea of democracy around 500 B.C. Should we issue a set of demands and, if so, what should they be? LIKE OUR PAGE (Occupy Demand on Facebook) and submit your demands for CHANGE!
Though it may be a bit heavy for some, it must be stated; capitalism is reaching its endgame. The growth requirement which capitalism has built into itself is now colliding headlong with the limits of the natural world, which provides all of the raw stock required by industry. Like an organism undergoing ketosis, the system is beginning to devour itself for sustenance. Governments create imaginary capital to patch over privately created black holes of debt, while financial institutions feast on the accumulated “wealth” of the poorer strata of western society by mechanisms like foreclosure, stagnant wages, increasing tuitions, increasing interest payments, layoffs, and every other conceivable and now commonplace “austerity measure.”
It is this amalgam of symptoms of collapse that the people of the “first” world are now experiencing. Of course, these first-worlders have lived on the backs of exploited peoples, animals, and land bases for generations, all too happy to consume to their heart’s content in a drunken orgy of self-righteous hedonism. (In their defense, the masters of capital did scar these people at birth with the brand of consumption, bombarding them day and night with self defeating advertisements and a ceaseless campaign of pro-authoritarian, anti-life propaganda.)
Yes LSN45, but how do we do that by just protesting. What does that do?
I admit, I am uneducated in this area. I've been asking myself this question over and over again. Am I part of the problem if I complain and then don't do something about it? Yes, is my answer. Then I ask myself again, What can I do to become part of the solution? OK, I can protest, is my answer.
What does that do when I protest? What is the objective? But then I look at the whys of why the message is not getting across and the only thing I can think of is the lack of education. So, I thought that maybe if I dove into researching the problems from the beginning of history, really understanding them, then maybe I can help to raise awareness by helping to educate the people in my generation that just aren't getting it. Too many don't understand the PROBLEM so how would they even understand a solution if it smacked them in the face? Well, maybe I just answered my own question. The solution right now in this phase of the movement may just be educating everyone and raising awareness?
So far, the creation of this post and on my Facebook is as far as I've gotten in trying to get off my ass and be a part of this. OK, if putting pressure on the president to change things for us is not the answer, then is there a way to put pressure on Congress to stop being corrupt without causing a violent revolution?
It's just all so complex. Are there many solutions? Is protesting enough??
For starters limit campaign donations.
Hmmm.... What do you do about all the problems the process of capital accumulation and reproduction causes?
You had me until you said "This movement". We've been in this mess for more than 30 years now and the ideas just get worse because most people don't have a clue. So let me help you, I'll show where to start.
Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( www.revolution2.osixs.org )
Enough talk, it's time to get organized. Don't be a Sucker your whole life. Remember, life is short, then you die.
"Spread the News"
Well, I'm only 27. When I was a teenager and under, I didn't have the capacity to comprehend the hole this country was falling in.
Thanks, I'll check out the site.
That's exactly why we need to put pressure on the president to acknowledge this fact publicly if he wants to get re-elected. That's what these protests are for, correct? Am I right to assume that no part of the movement has collectively stated the solution? Am I right to assume that there are thousands of people becoming a part of this movement that haven't the slightest clue why they are protesting, or that they aren't understanding what the solution is?
I believe you can "assume" anything you wish to. No one has to accept or agree with your assumptions.
It is however illogical to assume that just because there is not currently an agreed upon a specific solution, that it means that no one understands or agrees upon the problem.
It's also illogical, and most people find it a tad arrogant, for someone to PRESUME that "their" solution is the "ONLY" or "BEST" solution. But good luck to you.
I never stated that my bright idea, if that's what it could be called, is the "ONLY" or "BEST" solution.
You do know that, right?
Allow me to point out that when I say anything in life, I may come off as trying to challenge someone to be "right", but, I am the type of person that just wants to learn. So, even though I didn't clearly state that in my opening post, that is what I'm trying to do here. I'm just as frustrated as the rest of you with what's going on. I'm only trying to understand it all, and trying to see what I can do to be a part of the solution, but I must first know what the solution is. I'm not even sure I understand what it's going to take to change what's happening.
Forgive me if I came off as arrogant. I apologize.
You just demonstrated a very mature AND honest character. Hold onto those qualities ok? I find them to be very rare. Nothing to forgive.
I've always respected the part of the Hippocratic oath that says "FIRST...do no harm". It means it might take longer than I want it to to fix something, but I'd rather take the time to follow my idea all the way to it's logical end(s) than rush in and end up making things worse than they were when I started.
It's very likely that OWS or anyone else isn't going to get a "second" try at solving the problem, especially if it doesn't go well. Make this one count and do it right.
Do you think Obama was bought and paid for?
I know that the president alone isn't responsible for making this change in our country, but couldn't he help us by making a public statement such as the one I suggested?
And then there's always the question in my mind, if I think that by electing someone as president would help this cause, would my vote even count?
Maybe a lack of education isn't the only problem to create change. Maybe most of Americans being riddled in fear because of their current personal financial issues causes them to not stand up for themselves. Maybe there should also be some education about that; how they can create change while still balancing their own personal lives?
What I think about Obama would take too long to list here. Let's just say I believe he's a puppet and a fraud of the most embarrassing sort.
If he "is" bought and paid for, he couldn't point the finger at congress without proving he's a hypocrite. Again.
Here's the thing-you can offer as much education to people as you want, you cannot MAKE people hear it, or believe it, or do anything with what they learn. Fear isn't your only hurdle. Apathy, stupidity, bias, denial, corruption, etc. Just because YOU think and feel the need to "stand up for" yourself or others, does not mean that everyone else does or will.
Not only does the president know that Congress is bought and paid for, but the president himself is bought and paid for. OWS does need to urge clear objectives though, at this point there isn't an 'official' document so it's meaningless for OWS to state the problem but not the solutions.
I stated the solution see my post.
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Isn't the term "peaceful protest" somewhat of an oxymoron?
Peaceful-calm, tranquil, harmonious, serene, free from disturbance, undisturbed from strife or turmoil.
The President has never been the conscience of ALL the people. And I think he's currently only approved by about 43% of them...
It's either really scarey, or mildly adorable that you're ignoring the fact that the President-or any of the candidates-has ALSO most likely been bought and paid for! So why would someone like that ever say such a thing? (Note, our current President was a Senator before he was President-so he's been bought and paid for, for a LONG time)
People who don't seem to fully understand what they are dealing with probably should not be attempting to "educate" anyone else until they are. Don't you think?