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Forum Post: Occupy is doing it all wrong when it comes to changing things

Posted 1 year ago on Nov. 18, 2012, 11 p.m. EST by Shayneh (-482)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

You folks who are interested in changing the way this country does business are doing it the wrong way.

Protesting, getting thrown in jail, complaining and any other method you have used in the past has done very little if nothing to change things.

So, I'm going to give you some firm advice on how to change things "big time".

First off you don't fight your enemy from the outside but from within. What that means is that you have to become part of what's going on from within to change things.

That means you have to become executives, bankers, brokers, loan administrators or take on any other job that puts you in a "decision making position and a position where you have control of "money".

In addition to that you need to sponsor people to run for office - have a platform that makes sense to get those voted in who you believe will be able to make change.

If you think what I am saying is wrong look at how "religious orginizations" do it - look at how the muslims do it -

They start out small, and work from within in - they don't do it from the outside.

So, go for it - BTW, it's probably going to take about 25 years for this to happen if you do it this way but should you decide not to, you will still be posting "talking points" on this board 25 years from now.

Have a goal and a plan to reach that goal and go for it. I am sure there are lots of you younger folks with college degrees that fit the bill. You just need to get yourself in the right position in order for you to make the change.

Once you do this, then you are in charge and if you have enough pe

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92 Comments


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[-] 5 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

You said -- "First off you don't fight your enemy from the outside but from within. What that means is that you have to become part of what's going on from within to change things."

You mean like being on the inside of the DC Beltway? Yeah, that's sure done a lot of good in the last 30 years. Wake up idiot. The "inside" is where all the corruption is. Like "insider trading". And being on the "inside" during all of the crooked backroom deals. No, you're wrong. We have to scream as loud as we can and raise as much awareness as possible because those rich assholes own the inside, and if you're on the inside you're part of the problem, not the solution.

Power to the People...and the People have always been on the outside. But the inside fucked up when they gave We The People the power to vote in this country. And this time, we won. Next time, maybe not, idk. But one thing I know for certain, and that's that the Rich don't believe in democracy. They never have and they never will. Voter suppression proves that. The only reason they tolerate democracy here is that by doing business in this country they have been able to make a lot of money by taking advantage of the ease of which the politicians can be bought and pass laws that favor the Rich. Well, I say the quicker we kick their sorry selfish off-shoring asses out of this country the better off all of the little people will be.

Good riddance to filthy rich garbage!!!!

[-] -1 points by freakyfriday (179) 1 year ago

You don't believe in change from within after this past election? Electing that Marxist for 4 more years is the culmination of the lefties' decades long effort to take over the Democratic Party.

[-] 5 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

obama is not left. he is very center.

thats why we are pissed at him.

he is not marxist. maybe social democrat, barely measurable.

Obama betrayed me http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/once_again_--_death_of_the_liberal_class_20121112/

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

Why don't you actually take the time to learn what the parties are all about before embarrassing yourself with stupid statements like that?

Here, I'll help you --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_the_United_States

The (D)s have always been the party of the little guy and progressive policies that include potential socialist efforts. That's because the little guy has to fight for the Labor movement in this country to offset the Capitalist's efforts to destroy him and to suppress him and to use him as a tool to make the Capitalist (r)ich. The (R)s are for the (R)ich and the (R)eligious (R)ight. You can call Obama a Marxist or any other name you want. But he is political Christ compared to that anti-Christ Romney who was the puppet of the filthy (R)ich Aristocracy of this country...who are traitors and view this country as something to use and discard. They take and then offshore their assets. Yeah...I'd call that real patriotism.

[-] 1 points by freakyfriday (179) 1 year ago

Why don't you actually take the time to learn what the parties are all about before embarrassing yourself with stupid statements like that?

[-] -3 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

You are condming the very thing that if you become part of you along with lots of others who think the same way can change - how hard is that to understand?

Oh, I know, you don't want to wait 25 years you want change to happen immediately.

Well don't hold your breath - when you show that much distain for someone or something your emotions will never allow you to work towards change

Just like the rest of those who post here spewing the same hatred but yet don't have a clue that to change something you have to become part of it to change it.

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

You don't have a clue as to what I want. But we know what you want, and we know what you're doing here. So go peddle your shit someplace else. You're not going to convice ANY Occupy supporters of your views here. You are wasting your time.

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

I never did make any comment or mention about what you want. Where did that comment come from? And tell me - just what do I want - do you know - if so, tell me.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

You said -- "Oh, I know, you don't want to wait 25 years you want change to happen immediately."

Isn't that a statement implying you know what I want?

And your previous comments here and elsewhere have already revealed your purpose for being here. I have no patience for trolls, so I see no reason to waste my time further with you. If you want to continue to waste your time here and try to influence people to your pathology then that is your right. But you won't be changing any minds here among the true supporters of Occupy. If you do, then they were not true supporters to begin with.

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

So tell me what is my purpose for being here - is it to disban occupy?

If you haven't noticed the vast majority of people on this site have no business experience but yet they think they know all about solving the inequities in this country.

And the ones who do have business experience understand what it takes to change things.

If you think that Occupy has teeth to change the way the country does business then I have some swamp land to sell you in LA.

Being "single minded" and thinking with "blinders on" only allow for a person to fail and that's one of the reasons Occupy doesn't have the masses of people falling in line behind them.

Sure Occupy bought issues up that were already in the minds of the masses but it didn't have enough of an impact for them to go out and protest.

People have jobs, work everyday, have a family to support and are more concerned about their own well being dealing with their own day to day problems and are less concerend about what Occupy does.

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

You may not be here to disband Occupy, but you are damn sure not here to encourage it. And if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

Get lost troll!!!

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Shayneh is simply offering a very clear perspective, from what I have been reading in Shaynehs' comments .

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

Clear in support of what? What is s/he arguing for? I have read his/her comments too. S/he is arguing for the status quo and everything Occupy was formed to oppose. Have you gone over to the dark side too?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Probably already was on the dark side. I'm seeing a lot of that. Quite a few that I thought were the shizzle are actually pretty damn evil.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

I know GF. Very disturbing. We have to be as vigilent as possible. One of my greatest fears has always been that a people's protest movement like Occupy would lose its strength through infiltration. We just have to continue to be as protective as possible and beat them back. They are like brush fires that we have to constantly snuff out, because if we don't they can grow rapidly and burn us up. Occupy is too important and rare to ever let that happen. Even if I never post another Original Post, part of the reason I'm here is to defend the purity of Occupy. There are so many trolls who would try to water it down. We must remain eternally vigilant.

[-] -3 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Shayneh is offering a sensible method for improvement of America by it's Citizens. Perhaps what Shahneh does not realize , along with yourself and many others, is the "Dark truth behind OWS.

Haven't you noticed how none of the "Good Ideas get supported on this forum .. Ask yourself .. WHY ?

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

What good ideas? Like "snuggle up to the enemy" by getting on the inside? That is not what Occupy is all about. Occupy is a Power to the People protest movement that, at its spiritual core, is a revolution...so it is not about embracing conventional wisdom or techiques as you and Shayneh advocate. It is non-violent, so it is a revolution of ideas. Look at all the people here who advocate the destruction of capitalism, who advocate socialism, direct democracy, overthrow of existing banking system. It is about raising awareness up to millions of people. It is advocating that the average common man/woman has a voice and is important, not that fat cats rule the day. It does not believe that the whole dirty rotten system can be "reformed" from the inside. Look at any rookie congressman or woman who ever went to DC with grand ideals. What happens to them? The system is what happens to them, and they become part of that established system. Soon they are just another cog in the political machine as helpless as anyone else at being able to make a true difference. Such is the depth of the corruption and malfunction of the existing system.

There are hundreds of other organizations who operate in a more conventional manner for you and Shayneh to join if you want to take the traditional conventional path. But such is not the path of Occupy. Occupy cannot allow itself to become corrupted by advocates like you. It must remain pure to its protest roots and continue to scream from the rooftops "We're mad as hell, and we're not going to take this anymore". By contining it's scream, people have begun to wakeup to the depth of government and banking corruption. There is a whole network on TV now -- Current -- that seems to have embraced what Occupy has been about. The Power of the People is spreading. Their voice is slowly getting louder. Occupy introduced some ideas into the national conversation that would never have been introduced through conventional means.

So you and Shayneh can go your way to some other organization if you want to do it the way you are advocating. Occupy cannot take that approach. It would mean the death of Occupy. Shayneh likely knows this, and that is what s/he is doing here. S/he is a troll, and you have come under his/her influence. So either come back to the fold (if you were ever a part of it) or get the hell out of here!!!

[-] -2 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

So you think OWS would do a better job ruling the people.. and perhaps having people like GirlFriday in charge , whom doesn't have the rational ability to reason ? How would that look on your grand scheme ? .. wel atleast I would have to admit , "no one would "snuggle" up to her !"

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

Listen genius, in this country We The People rule, or at least that's how the system is suppossed to work. But right now Big Money is in control of government, banking, and industry. Everything is completely broken and corrupt. The (R)ich are holding the best interests of the country hostage in order to preserve their wealth agenda. Does that sound like We The People are in charge to you? So you're goddamn right I'd rather have true Occupy supporters in charge, who are patriots for the common person, than these (R)ich status quo assholes and people like you who want to compromise with them. We are done negotiating with the enemy. This is war ... Class warfare. We didn't ask for it, but the (R)ich seem to think they can win it by buying their way to victory. It is all they know. They buy government, military, banking and finance, private sector, ... you name it. Their greed and lust for power knows no end. And you want to try to reform a system owned by these assholes??? You are insane, have been duped, or are the enemy (possibly all three).

What happened to you FOB? You seemed like true Occupy to me once. But now I'll probably never trust you again. But that's what happens in war. People desert and go over to the enemy. Might as well change your name to benedictarnold because that's what I'll see from now on when I see a comment by you.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What dark truth is that?

You're not gonna go all Soro's BS on us are you?

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

OK.

Too much FLAKESnews for you, young man.

And stay away from that nut case at prison planet too.

It's turned your parking lot of a brain to complete mush.

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[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Well, it would appear that you are all that and more too.

You've attack American citizens here on the forum. Unprovoked, I might add.

As I recall the "founders" are decidedly anti-consumerism.

How is that treason?

Treason, by the way, is what Nixon committed and got away with.

More than once by the way.

Treason was also committed by Reagan to get elected.

Standing in dissent of the government is not treason, it's often, though not necessarily a form of patriotism

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[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You do not need a business degree to know that things have gone terribly wrong in this country on a whole bunch of different levels. While we may not have all the answers yet, the problems are glaring, and they have for the most part been brought about by corruption at the highest levels.

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

So how do you disban it - by protesting - how do you think those businesses got the rules changed - they became part of the company that makes the rules - congress - .

What a lot of you don't understand is there are a lot of people who are doing very well in this country and when it comes to "street protesting" they aren't concerned.

The only ones concerned are those who feel "neglected" and want to do something about it.

Well, the neglected ones are going to have to step up to the plate and "get involved" if they want change - and that change has to be on a "platter" that everyone is satisfied with.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

"how do you think those businesses got the rules changed - they became part of the company that makes the rules - congress "

This is exactly why OWS should be considering forming a Lobby group; take the concerns directly to Congress, and do it with the strength of numbers (signed petitions) not bribery.

Thanks for your " clear minded thinking Shayneh !

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

There are very few of us than have not been affected negatively....'screwed', not "neglected".... by the corruption, and neoliberal politics that has been in effect for the past thirty plus years. Not until the corrupt elite are in danger of losing it all will they succumb. Look at how Roosevelt's New Deal was enacted; look at how Sweden and Norway did it in the early 1900s; and then more recently to how Iceland, and although a lot smaller in scope, how Quebec did it.

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

The only hatred, Shayneh............is yours. It's dedicated to one thing and that is to coopt.

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Hey, there is not one time I ever spewed "hatred" on this site like so many of you do - especially when you disagree with what I post and then name call or worse.

That just goes to show how your "emotions" take over your thinking. That's the probelm with the vast majority who post on this web site -

Can't get into a good dialogue without having someone do a character assination or name calling.

That just shows a persons immaturity instead of maturity.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

So, coopting is not really your thing. Should probably go get your own group of people. You seem to need us way more than you and yours are needed.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

How else do you think you can change things unless you get people who think the same way involved

A handful of protesters isn't going to change things because Occupy doesn't have the 99% on their side - if they did you would see thousands in the street just like the 60's.

To "force change" there needs to be a direct involvement in politics, in commerece -ie. banking - getting people on the inside instead of on the outside.

Coopting is great if you want to start a business and do it, but it doesn't work when it comes to politics and changing the way government does business.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Coopting is great if you want to start a business and do it, but it doesn't work when it comes to politics and changing the way government does business.

Exactly. Don't forget this.

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well I'm glad you at least agree with me on those points. - thank you.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Unfortunately, you are still attempting to coopt and you are doing it because you need us way more than we need you.

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

GirlFriday seems to be unreasonable.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You mean that she won't go along with your grand master plan._


Mooooooooooom. GirlFriday won't do what I say.

I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

GirlFriday, when someone makes a reasonable observation/ suggestion, you should walk out to the desert, bury your head in the sand, and kick your arms and legs up in the air..until of course ,the person with the reasonable suggestion .. just goes away.. OH, I see you have already included this in your "bag of tactics"

What is the world ever gonna do .. with the sand eaters like you ?

It takes maturity to be reasonable GirlFriday. You may now think being reasonable is humiliating and horrible .. or something worse, but I assure you, once you try it and experience a little maturity , you will begin to grow/develop in ways you never imagined.. and , you may even like it. (and People will begin to respect you)

C'mon GirlFriday ! ..try being mature . It's a great thing !!

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

WTF are you talking about, and what does it have to do with anything at all?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

He wants me to side with a bunch of shit. It's an ignorant attempt to rope me into saying I will just go along. I'll be damned.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

He's never been particularly friendly, in spite of the name.

He jumped into an already lame conversation, just to attack you.

I don't see a thing worth agreeing with either.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

There isn't anything to agree with. He wants me to back whomever it is that he has deemed worthy and considering that we are well underway in several of the conversations that are going on---I am not seeing one damn thing for the people. It's shyte.

[-] -2 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Trying to convert GirlFriday..It's an experiment..

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Experiment??

I doubt you're qualified, but what the hell.....What are the parameters.

Oh, and what are you trying to convert her into and what makes you think you can convert another human being into anything at all?

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

perhaps convert is the wrong terminology..

when I look at the world around us , I see every attempt being made to try bring peace where there is conflict .. so with GirlFriday, it would appear she likes to bring conflict where there is peace .. Sheyneh has done no harm in her post , and yet GirlFriday has terribly attacked her .. I stepped in .. or I could have looked the other way .. I owe no favors to Shenay or GirlFriday .. So perhaps this is an experiment for me in attempt to bring about a peaceful resolution .. Obviously GirlFriday .. I had thought would consider all avenues of suggestion .. for she fears nothing .. As we all have witnessed ..I certainly have not harmed any one with my intent or my actions .. simply trying to find peace in this world of ours .. as so many wish to do.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It won't happen. I do not like deception.

[-] -2 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Deception ?

By asking you to be reasonable , and not slamming someone whom is simply presenting a 'thought/view of an idea/suggestion ..

After all, are you not also presenting your thoughts and views onto the 'one-percent' in hopes they too will be open to reason.. it seems you would want this.. " do as I say not as I do " aka GirlFriday.

edit: GirlFriday , you and the one percent have something in common .. you are both unreasonable ! hahaha .. GirlFriday has the same blood in her veins as the one percent .. hahaha .. cut from the same cloth .. Related ? hahaha

So to sum up .. GirlFriday is A Hypocrit (she says one thing but does another) , and she has the same blood as her enemy.. wrap your head around it .. if you can. So .. I guess that explains a lot about why you are who you are GirlFriday .. I mean , being unreasonable .. and turning out to be related to the one percent .. what else is there to know about you .. hmnn I wonder ..?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1949) 8 minutes ago Deception ? By asking you to be reasonable , and not slamming someone whom is simply presenting a 'thought/view of an idea/suggestion .. After all, are you not also presenting your thoughts and views onto the 'one-percent' in hopes they too will be open to reason.. it seems you would want this.. " do as I say not as I do " aka GirlFriday. edit: GirlFriday , you and the one percent have something in common .. you are both unreasonable ! hahaha .. GirlFriday has the same blood in her veins as the one percent .. hahaha .. cut from the same cloth .. Related ? hahaha So to sum up .. GirlFriday is A Hypocrit (she says one thing but does another) , and she has the same blood as her enemy.. wrap your head around it .. if you can. So .. I guess that explains a lot about why you are who you are GirlFriday .. I mean , being unreasonable .. and turning out to be related to the one percent .. what else is there to know about you .. hmnn I wonder ..? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


Deception. Coopting. Multiple IDs. Paid to post trolls. Shayneh has posted repeatedly from a right wing stance. She/he it has been consistent. At no given time has Shayneh made a thread of..............standing up for anything that OWS stands for. We have a track record going on here. That track record says that. What you want from me is to approach whatever he/she/it writes with the innocence of a child. This I cannot do. That track record says that.

No, actually, when I present my thoughts they are strictly for the persona involved. That which you and/or one of your cohorts presents. Hence, my notifying you, in advance, that this persona and this type of personality does not work. Anything of value that you had to say is automatically lost. So, make no mistake...when I speak......I talk directly to you.

So, to sum up, I have one ID. How many do you have? All to present? All to control? All to rope in as little foot soldiers? There are stances that I stand solidly behind and it does not matter what corner that my opposition may come from. That is a fact. I have demonstrated this.

To thine own self be true.

You can spend every waking moment attempting to ostracize me. Does not make a fuck to me. You may spend every moment trying to paint me as 1% and it doesn't make a fuck to me. My track record says no. You have to be a real douchebag to buy into it.

Let me make myself absolutely mother fucking clear right now. Do not ever attempt to make thinly veiled threats to me again. Do not do this. Do not let me find out that you have attempted to threaten, in any way/shape or form, any of the people on this forum, especially anyone over 50 or physically disabled. I will flip the tables. There will not be a repeat of last year on this issue. I am not afraid. The question that you need to be asking, right at this very moment, is what else we don't we know about you?

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[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Grow the fuck up.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

we are safe to lash out behind illusionary masks

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Start your own movement and do it your way.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 1 year ago

Changing things from within only works with mass numbers of involvement. Otherwise, you remain an ineffectual minority within a system of mass corruption. OWS doesn't have significant numbers of people involved in banking, brokering, or the financial industry in general, and is never going to attract the kind of people who pursue such careers.

Changing things requires taking control of your own collective situation and making it grow as an alternative for the general society until it becomes the norm.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well, doesn't Occupy have mass numbers to get involved. Aren't there thousands of college grads unemployed who have qualifications to fill these jobs?

And you are right - changing things requires taking control - what would be a better civil way of making change then doing it this way taking control of the banks and government?

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (5854) 1 year ago

Occupy doesn't have mass numbers to get involved. There aren't thousands of college grads who have qualifications to fill such jobs. People don't graduate from business school only to join Occupy for lack of a job. A business orientation is either counter to the objectives of Occupy or a business orientation is in line with Occupy in pursuing independent communal business ventures.

Taking control means forming your own bank (i.e. credit union), no longer being dependent upon someone else's bank, and making your bank the more favored alternative to someone else's bank.

Taking control means exercising legal control over candidates to receive your votes so that they vote in your interest upon being elected.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

So, although you may or may not agree with their platform, these people are taking the right approach to making change happen? -

In a coherent, national effort to fill the vacuum of leadership now being disgustingly displayed in the U.S. presidential election campaign, the full slate of LaRouche Democratic candidates has now announced its candidacy for the upcoming Congressional primary elections. Throwing their hats into the ring are: Kesha Rogers, 22nd C.D., Texas; Diane Sare, 5th C.D., New Jersey; Rachel Brown, 4th C.D., Massachusetts; David Christie, 9th C.D., Washington; and Bill Roberts, 11th C.D., Michigan.

http://larouchepac.com/campaigns

[-] 1 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

Now, to be fair Shayneh, you were always for protest, vehemently.

Now that OWS is influencing debate, and I think getting attention of more people by not going away but adapting, example Occupy Sandy, and Debt Jubilee. Even that IMF banker said OWS has a point.

You may have a point, but you have to be so argumentative about everything. You are the one who seems to like everyone to agree with you.

It is ok at times, because these are difficult issues to even have a common agreed upon vocabulary for discussion. and text is hard to imply emotion, for some of us older, not so socially adept types.

maybe Eat crow or apologize for any unintended hurt feelings.

no big deal.

but now you know how * might be feeling.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

gsw, occupy has never supported a political platform. Changing an attitude simply to get others to comply does not alter the goal.

This is where it fails. There is no integrity behind it.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

even the people of iceland needed some representative leaders in government, as I understand it.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

There is no integrity in this. It is transparent.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

but what about political ideas.

money out of politics. break up the banks, end the drones; more higher ed. support ideas which are spoken for by Stein, Sanders, Anderson,

if the ideas are ours, then wouldn't proponents of the ideas be our allies?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You mean the issues? Many of those it is wished to be discarded in the name of political ideas? We need to focus on a few items? It isn't because they aren't represented well. It's because whomever it is that you wish to present is not in agreement with or cannot draw a big enough base to rally around it so something must be discarded.

This is the most irritating part of it.

If the proponents of these ideas were indeed our allies then it would not be necessary for all of this. Would it? You see, it is quite obvious that what is wanted is for all of the support of occupy to rally around someone/s. That way all of the emotion and all of the energy and manpower will propel those someone/s. You want to leash that and have them/us do the work and obey. AND have made it completely known that all of the tools that the R's and D's use would also be used in order to acquire what is desired while deriding those parties.

It doesn't matter what kind of mood * is in. The key difference here is whether or not some individuals have the capacity to be genuinely human and to put the politics to the side and reach a consensus. This occurs when engaging in our debates and conversations. Some have it and some do not.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

individuals have the capacity to be genuinely human and to put the politics to the side and reach a consensus.

I think most people are good. and capable.

others not so much.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

http://billmoyers.com/?search_type=video&s=How+do+Conservatives+and+Liberals+See+the+World%3F&Search=Search

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Most people are capable. The problem arises when you are dealing with someone whose sole purpose here is to present one view. Those people can't because it is the job. It shows.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The way to change things is to show the people that the truth they have been fed for decades is a lie. Our battle is for the minds of the people. To encourage them to stand up on two legs instead of being led around on four and make their own decisions without the direction of the corporate controlled media and party duopoly.

Something so simple as negotiating for a fair wage instead of accepting what they're offered doesn't take 25 years. It just takes a few hours of education which will provide the necessary backbone to stand up to the corporate powers. We outnumber them a hundred to one. That knowledge put into action is what the 1% fears most.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

Wow that's what you would call a 180

Odin??

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Sure is but you know what - if enough people get involved change can happen.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

I believe we need to occupy them everywhere, so in many ways I agree with you on this. I am very agreeable.

We need to be able to do lots of different tactics, and become and overcome them, and change them subtly, so it is not a radical change, but gradual over time.

http://blog.ted.com/2012/06/26/science-is-play-beau-lotto-and-amy-otoole-at-tedglobal-2012/

How else did marijane become legal in Washington and Colorado. It was long term, but inevitable.

This guy, Rocky, said we need to get everyone on our side, and it will take diverse methods to get diverse people converted in their thinking. http://www.voterocky.org/rocky_anderson_our_president_2012

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

You are the very first person who agrees because you know what I posted is a "smart way" to do it.

I congratulate you for not letting your "emotions" get in the way like the few who have responded have.

[-] 0 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

yes.

like a bunch of bees swarming all over here often. That is good: troll defense.

"outside" or original thinking should be not too discouraged. we don't know the intent or background thinking of the ideas. I held back a bit or would have been attacked too.

You will certainly draw the ire or attention anytime you start your sentence with "you guys...." Maybe that was your intention.

There was a time when the getting thrown in jail was a good thing, and I know it is still needed, especially by clergy, authority figures like Stein.

If we all had a day of civil disobedience, that would get peoples attention, if we all sat down in front of a bank, or something, on same day.

banks have the money, and we our money is in the banks (retirement accounts) so we are interlinked.

we do need their money out of politics, and better regulation, not too big to fail, etc.

yes, we need to act sensible, and not just try to go to jail.

Yes, we should try to attain these positions. That will take time.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/20/1101537/-The-IMF-Bloomberg-News-Agree-JPMorgan-Chase-Receives-14-Billion-in-U-S-Gov-t-Subsidies-a-Year

[-] 1 points by gsw (2603) 1 year ago

oh come on. he can be annoying as * but he is our Socrates, asking the "out there questions"

You agree with this idea. Just not his overall style of chameleonship

duck low. here they come

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

your way is what the baby boomers tried now how the hell did that turn out?

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

It's apparent that you look at it from a perspective that the way Occupy is doing it is the only way.

Well, I don't see the thousands in the streets protesting where is everyone - sitting at home on their computers posting "talking points"

You see, just because I came up with a more practical way to change things you don't like it because its going to take time to do it and it is more practical to do it this way then to protest in the streets.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

the movement based on public space has failed to thrive without one. surprise, surprise. despite the rhetoric from others denying it, i always knew the movement needed a public space. that was part of the attraction, a place where people could come together and just talk. free of charge. a free flowing exchange of ideas. a community of people looking for community. what ows needs to do is re-establish a public space. but as a side note i commend all those who donated or participate in occupy sandy it has gone a long way towards building good will with people. the same thing with buying distressed debt. there is no denying. ows is getting some favorable press on these issues. we just need to keep building and when it gets warm we must occupy a public space once again.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

STFU and sit down. Sheesh. You are like a broken record and it's not even a good record. Nobody wants to go along with your little game plan or attempt to coopt. Get over it. Move on.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Hey, what I posted is true - If anyone of you want change - standing outside a building and pissing people off who want to go to work isn't going to change things.

If that were the case, you would see millions of protesters on the streets instead of just a few if that -

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You do nothing but whine, bitch and moan and say a bunch of derogatory shit. You are way overpaid to post. You're like a nagging significant other.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Easy GirlFriday, easy...

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It's all good. I am just, you know, helping it to become more productive in the future, Sometimes, they need that type of criticism in order to excel at their jobs. Nobody ever tells the Shayneh ID-hey, you made me change my mind. I can see this now from your point of view.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Wouldn't it be nice if we would all take that approach .. to see the positive and ..nurture it ..

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yep.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Thanks GirlFriday..

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Don't thank me. I am not down with the coopting. I will continue to nail it.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

As I see it, Shaneyh is only offering a solution she sees might help .. and she tried so politely.., Let us not condemn her efforts for trying. instead let's encourage her.. as we should encourage all good effort.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Pffttt................the way Shayneh sees it is that the reason for the wage gap between the middle class and the top 1% is psychological. The reason for shut down of Hostess is the workers and the union. Please. Not just any effort.............good effort. This isn't kindergarten.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Regardless. There is an attempt at dialogue, and that is the opportunity for all parties to come together. We must see the truth in all sides of this. For the solutionis not in continual fighting and insult, but rather looking for agreement on issues.. We have to be willing to and able to concede to all truth.. not just ours.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Get real. It's coopting. Period.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

GrilFriday, in response to your comment below-

" I am doing my best."

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

You are going to need to address the B1 Visas. Somewhere down the line these companies are going to want some little subsidy or some little tax break. Should never have allowed outsourcing of R&D to begin with. Find the law, revise, acknowledge and discuss limitations, present.

I see an awful lot of focus on berating people and trying to get them to do what you want. I see not a damn thing of what you are doing for the people. I will never forgive Odin for Shayneh. So, help me, it feels like being married all over again.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

We need to start considering alternate realities. This current reality, "Ain't Workin !"

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Your current reality is not working.

Lemme 'splain a few things to you. You may think you are slick. You are not.

Do not think for one minute that I will be your fucking foot soldier when the vast majority of the debates are not well thought out. You can't back your shit up. Try again.

I'm going to show you something. I'm only going to do this once. Take note. Read the commentary here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-outer-space/

Now, let's play a little game of you want and I want. You want my support? Bring our R&D jobs back home and pay them. Well.

That means that you not just identify the problems, you tell me how the hell you are you going to solve them, Step by step.

I refuse to jump for anyone you want elected. Those motherfuckers jump for me. You want my support or you want my respect.........fucking earn that shit. You dig what I am telling you?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yeah, just waltz in and get yourself a VP job B of A.

Why didn't I think of that.

It's so simple.

By the way. What's this pe that I will need enough of?

[-] -1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 1 year ago

Shayneh, keep up the wonderful effort.