Forum Post: Occupy Car Insurance
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 12, 2011, 3:28 p.m. EST by jimmycrackerson
(940)
from Blackfoot, ID
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I want to set the stage for debate against Insurance companies specifically car insurance, or any other MANDATORY insurance scheme. If anyone can provide links showing where this has already been debated, please direct me so that I am not polluting the 'airwaves'.
My premise is that one should not impose any restrictions upon the right to be mobile. Car insurance, and basically the entire Department of Motor Vehicles does just that. It sickens me that people who have the means to drive such fancy, gas guzzling, automobiles parade them around as if their "well being" is something I should strive for.
I agree with you, I feel this violates our Constitution.
(note to trolls: I don't need 'you don't have to drive' BS many people DO have to drive to survive)
This could be fixed with universal not for profit health care.
The reason we all have to pay for car insurance is in the event of an accident, you might have $100,000,000 hospital bills.
When everyone is covered by universal health care, the only thing that need be covered with car insurance is the cost of the car itself. That could then be the responsibility of the individual car owner to cover their car if it is worth it. If they want to drive a $100,000 car, that is the car owner's problem, they can afford insurance. When a poor person loses their clunker, they can replace it cheaper than paying insurance.
What about lost wages?
wtf are you saying
mandatory car insurance is to make sure you are cared for if someone hits you (and vice versa)
if you constantly get into car accidents you desrve a higher premium
what the hell does rich people driving fancy cars have anything to do with restricting your mobility. and how does car insurance restrict your mobility?
*How does car insurance restrict my mobility? I'll tell you why...
If I am being forced to pay a certain amount of money just so that I might be able to legally travel in whatever state I reside. That already tells me it's a scam from the beginning.
*How does rich people driving fancy cars have anything to with restricting my mobility?
Have you ever seen the movie Who Killed the Electric Car? Should I really have to be some wealthy person, a slave to a corporation, or a system of government so that I may have my freedoms? I think not.
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That is not what I'm saying. There are other more efficient methods of travel that have not been implemented because the powers that be stand too much to lose from someone else making their current systems obsolete.
Such as what, and what does that have to do with the original premise of not buying car insurance?
If you want something innovative to drive, and the demand is there for it, people will buy it. Period.
Bullshit.
We already have the technology and the demand for better sources of travel. And we all know who is holding us back from using this technology to create a better world for everyone.
No one is holding you back. If there was demand for the product it would be manufactured.
I beg to differ...these products are not being manufactured because the patents have been stolen from common inventors and they are being threatened with legal action to discontinue their research and experiments by more 'powerful' entities.
More conspiracy theory BS
No, this is not a theory. This is reality motherfucker.
Very nice................................................................................
Yawn.
Yeah...go back to sleep. When you decide to wake up I'm here for you.
Name one.
if you dont have money how will you pay for gas or the car?
what does who killed the electric car have anything to do with anything?
btw. you are free to walk anywhere you want..
The point is that we should not be paying for gas. Why would I want to pay for something that is threatening life on this planet. Why can I not have my own method of transportation that does not rely on gas?
Instead, when I create a groundbreaking method of travel, the Government still has the authority to take away my invention and use it for their own purposes.
We should not be paying for gas? Your household is full of things that you or your mommy and daddy pay for that destroys the planet. Meteors, Volcano's, hurricanes, tornado's and mother nature in general also destroys the planet. Now I enjoy a doobie on occasion but I really think you should lay off it for a while and get a job.
You have no idea what you're talking about. It is not a matter of whether of not I can pass a drug test. For your information I would pass any corporate drug test on the spot. And why would I want to work for any system or organization that I am protesting against. It sounds a little self-defeating don't you think?
I don't recall telling you to exclusively work for a Big Corporation or anything Wall Street. I used to work for HP and we all know how that worked out for us. I work for a small company now. I do believe it is more self defeating to live off of others tax dollars and not be a productive member of society. Hows that working out for ya?
That's the point, it's not working out at all... In the entire three months I have been unemployed, I have received NOTHING from the state or the federal government. So shut your fucking face until you know what the fuck you're talking about...
So you didn't pass your UA huh? Thats too bad punk ass. I do feel better that your punk ass isn't getting one damn dime of my tax dollars.
I like to work for what I earn and I am applying for work all over magicfuckingvalley. I will pass any UA that is given to me... apparently you missed a bit of information four posts up.
The point is that no one is offering me the opportunity to work. I'm tired of wasting fucking gas that I cannot afford, to go to an interview only to have someone say that they will call me back. And guess what no one fucking calls me back. So what do I do? I call them and leave messages, because no one will pick up their fucking phone. And they are too cowardice to just straight up tell me I didn't get the job. You know what I'd be glad If they would tell me whether I got the job or not so that I can move on to looking for something else.
Look I have been where you are so I do understand and no one gave a shit and that probably helped me the most. I was so pissed it gave me the energy to finally get a great job. You can't give up. If the assholes don't call you back when they say they would they would screw you anyway. I got the royal screwing from HP and they layed off so many people that it fucked our economy here. I just didn't give up. I have friends that have and they haven't worked in over 3 years. I have to commute now and it sucks but Im making it. Just don't give up is my best advice.
Make your own way you leech. Why the hell would anyone just "give you a job"? If you are worth something to an employer, they will hire you. Go look for work instead of waiting for someone to "offer you work.". Get a haircut and a shave, take the hardware off your pathetic looking face, and try to look like a human being that gives a shit about something besides your self.
Why would I be arguing for the rights of all human beings if I only cared about myself? Do you realize how stupid you just made yourself sound?
Jimmy. You need to apply for many jobs. When a place doesn't call you back, you call them back, again and again. Btw, you don't need to argue for the rights of all human beings. Also, your generalizations about how old people treat young and how rich treat poor are utterly ridiculous, and I am sure the generalizations could be flipped. Quit whining about others and whining about your misfortunes. No one likes a whiner.
If telling my story is considered whining, then so be it. But don't think that by defending the fuckers that will inevitably take away all your rights and everything you hold dear, that they give a rats ass about you and your family. They don't. And when you wind up losing everything you have and lose the ability to think for yourself, I hope you will at least be able to remember this conversation somewhere deep down inside.
Just keep trying, or figure out a way to make your own money. That's what I did 8 years ago, when I got laid off. I started my own business.
Do you look, sound, smell, and act like someone an employer would consider hiring or do you look, sound, smell, and act like a typical OWS member?
You've got my location pinpointed in my profile...come see for yourself.
Brace yourself for what you never expect.
No worries my friend.
How did you lose your last job?
Why would any company hire someone that thinks everything should be free? Maybe you should offer to work for free.
I do, when I'm not here fighting for my god given rights, I'm over at my local elementary school teaching first graders how to read.
and when I'm doing neither one of the above, I'm looking for a fucking job.
Teaching the kids to read is noble of you, seriously. You are probably pretty young and this is the first economic downturn of your adult life. I've lived through a few. Even in a mild recession, it can take much longer than 3 months to find a decent job, maybe even a year or more. In the meanwhile, take what you can get. Deliver pizza or flip burgers if you have to, it's temporary. You'll find a good job eventually, just keep looking. Do you have any skills?
Yes I have plenty of skills. My biggest probably being the ability to learn anything with hands-on training. This is why I refuse to waste time and money going to school, I don't need a degree to tell me what I am capable or not capable of doing.
I can relate to that 100%. You would do well in a skilled trade. Did you grow up on a ranch or farm?
Nah, I grew up under a strict military and religious rule. But I can't necessarily say I despise that. Because I wouldn't be the person I am today if not for that.
Sounds like you're going through a rebellious stage.
I don't know if it's so much a stage as a way of life. I see the way people treat strangers in this world...and it is unacceptable. I see the way the upper class takes advantage of the lower class and it is unacceptable. People will not stand for it. No more. No more.
OWS is NOT the solution.
What is this new groundbreaking mode of transportation?
That's right. This is another example of how regulations hold back the markets.
When a new market emerges, the hegemonic status quo holds us all enslaved to the "old way." -- To justify itself. To "stabilize economies" -- To bolster profits -- To maintain control.
This is what "too big to fail" really means.
I doubt you've ever created anything but a pool of tears every time things don't go your way.
Yeah right mother fucker, if I had my way I wouldn't be here arguing with you now would I?
Since you have spare time now, why aren't you physically occupying something with your OWS gang?
It is not my time to hit the streets yet. Especially since I'm kind of stranded out in the middle of nowhere. What am going to do? yell at some cattle? maybe throw some rocks at the mountains? I can get a lot of things accomplished by spreading awareness right where I am.
LOL, that would be just as productive as what they are all doing at OWS. What kind of job are you looking for?
I would honestly like to do farmwork and make enough money to support my wife and possibly a family someday. But I refuse to bring a child into this world until shit gets straightened out.
I live in a rural area too but I just moved here from the city 8 years ago. I know nothing about farming but my gardens do well. The farmers around here seem to be doing good. Their home and out buildings look great and they have nice trucks and equipment. I good rule for living happy is to make a living doing something you really like.
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You do not have the "right" to drive a car on public roads.
II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135,
--and I quote:
"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horse drawn carriage, wagon, or automobile,is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
State vs. Johnson, 243 P. 1073;
Cummins vs. Homes, 155 P. 171;
Packard vs. Banton, 44 S.Ct. 256;
Hadfield vs. Lundin, 98 Wash 516
"... For while a Citizen has the Right to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, that Right does not extend to the use of the highways, either in whole or in part, as a place for private gain. For the latter purpose, no person has a vested right to use the highways of the state, but is a privilege or a license which the legislature may grant or withhold at its discretion."
Willis vs. Buck, 263 P. l 982;
Barney vs. Board of Railroad Commissioners, 17 P.2d 82
"Heretofore the court has held, and we think correctly, that while a Citizen has the Right to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, that Right does not extend to the use of the highways, either in whole or in part, as a place of business for private gain."
State vs. City of Spokane, 186 P. 864;
Ex Parte Dickey, (Dickey vs. Davis), 85 SE 781
"The right of the citizen to travel upon the highway and to transport his property thereon, in the ordinary course of life and business, differs radically and obviously from that of one who makes the highway his place of business for private gain in the running of a stagecoach or omnibus."
Thompson vs. Smith, supra.;
Teche Lines vs. Danforth, Miss., 12 S.2d 784
"The right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, in the ordinary course of life and business, is a common right which he has under the right to enjoy life and liberty, to acquire and possess property, and to pursue happiness and safety. It includes the right, in so doing, to use the ordinary and usual conveyances of the day, and under the existing modes of travel, includes the right to drive a horse drawn carriage or wagon thereon or to operate an automobile thereon, for the usual and ordinary purpose of life and business."
Kent vs. Dulles, 357 US 116 (1958)
"The right to travel is part of the Liberty of which a citizen cannot deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. This Right was emerging as early as the Magna Carta."
Riley vs. Laeson, 142 So. 619;
Stephenson vs. Binford, supra.
"... the only limitations found restricting the right of the state to condition the use of the public highways as a means of vehicular transportation for compensation are (1) that the state must not exact of those it permits to use the highways for hauling for gain that they surrender any of their inherent U.S. Constitutional Rights as a condition precedent to obtaining permission for such use ..."
So, you were saying? Nonono, go on...
Try it without a drivers license, registration, and/or insurance.
Right and Ability are different. We live in an occupied country.
I have the "ability" to drive without a license, registration, and/or insurance, but doing so is illegal.
Stop trolling. I've already proven that it's not illegal, from the words of U.S. Judges which have become precedent through numerous cases, and the best you can do is repeat yourself.
You are conflating "will get you arrested" with "is illegal", which are not the same.
So there are no laws on the books that state you must have a drivers license, registration and insurance to drive on a public road? Are you confusing federal law with state law?
Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491
"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them."
This one is important; it refers to the "Supremacy Clause" within The Constitution, which makes any unconstitutional law null and void.
Hoke vs. Henderson, 15 NC 15
"To be that statute which would deprive a Citizen of the rights of person or property, without a regular trial, according to the course and usage of the common law, would not be the law of the land."
Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. 486, 489
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946
"There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights."
Chicago Motor Coach vs. Chicago, 169 NE 22;
Ligare vs. Chicago, 28 NE 934;
Boon vs. Clark, 214 SSW 607;
25 Am.Jur. (1st) Highways Sect.163
"The use of the highways for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common and fundamental Right of which the public and the individual cannot be rightfully deprived."
Barbour vs. Connolly, 113 US 27, 31;
Yick Wo vs. Hopkins, 118 US 356
"There should be no arbitrary deprivation of Life or Liberty ..."
I'm repeating myself here, but it bears it:
Kent vs. Dulles, 357 US 116 (1958)
"The right to travel is part of the Liberty of which a citizen cannot deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. This Right was emerging as early as the Magna Carta."
So, who's not doin their job then? To wit:
Boyd vs. United States, 116 US 616
"It is the duty of the courts to be watchful for the Constitutional rights of the citizen and against any stealthy encroachments thereon."
Please, continue.
Not one mention above about actually driving a motorized vehicle. Do you hope to become a lawyer when you grow up?
You evidently don't know what a "motorized vehicle" is:
Title 18 USC 31
"Motor vehicle" means every description or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used for commercial purposes on the highways in the transportation of passengers, or passengers and property.
I'm guessing you mean "automobile":
American Mutual Liability Ins. Co., vs. Chaput, 60 A.2d 118, 120; 95 NH 200
"The word `automobile' connotes a pleasure vehicle designed for the transportation of persons on highways."
And what's worse, you need new glasses:
II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135,
"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horse drawn carriage, wagon, or AUTOMOBILE, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will**, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
I think you may be waking up finally. Good morning.
I'm talking about actually being the DRIVER. "travel upon the public highways" "Travel" does not necessarily mean "driver". The 60 passengers on a bus don't need a license, registration, or insurance, but the driver better damn well have them.
Bovier's Law Dictionary, 1914 ed., Pg. 940
"Driver -- One employed in conducting a coach, carriage, wagon, or other vehicle ..."
Look, I'm going to stop being rude to you and level with you, laying it out.
The States have done this to all of us, and people can't be to blame for their misconceptions because the Driver's Ed Handbooks incorrectly tell us that "it is a privilege", yet the courts have said over and over that "it is a right".
The word "Driver" is literally defined as a person who is paid to convey passengers or cargo, like a bus driver, or taxi driver, or a truck driver.
An "automobile" is a car you "drive" (steer) yourself.
When you signed your Driver's License, you inadvertently admitted to being a commercial driver and waived your rights in return for the "privilege" of not being arrested. (I have seen the actual language in my state!)
You did not mean to do this; you merely thought that it was the law that you had to. For this reason, the states have perpetrated a fraud upon you.
According to the courts, contracts made among parties who did know or should have known were based upon false pretenses, are not enforceable.
Furthermore, the right in question is inalienable.
I think that if you damaged somebody's life or property they would probably sue you, and I believe that people who could afford to would insure themselves.
I'm still not convinced, but......
Do you really think it would be a good idea if people didn't need a drivers license or insurance and were able to drive what ever piece of crap they cobbled together on the public roads?
Then I'll make my own roads.
I second this response. Car insurance is for when one of the 11 million illegals hits you and hurts you. If you want to debate something, debate the mandatory health insurance that is about to get slapped for being unconstitutional. Or debate the illegal infestation of our country.
Car insurance is a 250 billion dollar of a year industry.
If its mandated, shouldnt there be a mandate to not spend all that money on commercials too? So many damn insurance commercials. Disgusting.
All insurance companies are big time rip offs. That is part of the OWS movement. I cannot stand paying 900 every six months on my brand new car. I think that insurance should be a flat fee on all cars that are the same. Like all compact cars should pay a standard flat fee. Maybe a little higher if you have a lot of tickets and or accidents. Then the rates should go like that depending on the type of car you buy. But a flat fee and not one where you feel like the insurance companies are price gouging you.
Why pay anything at all? seriously? this is the most blatant scam I can possibly think of. that and our current fucking voting system.
"Maybe a little higher if you have a lot of tickets and or accidents." Just a little, huh? LOL So you didn't look into insurance costs BEFORE buying the car so it's time to find a bail-out scheme. Here's a quick fix... sell the new car and buy something you can afford. It's time to act your wage!
My car is paid for. But I still need insurance that is not so ridiculously high. Just like health insurance. All of the insurance companies need to be regulated to control the absurd high cost of having insurance.
What's the car worth? How's your driving record?
i agree.
if the driver wants to take the gamble and not buy insurance, he should be free to do so. the driver of course bears the entire cost of a car accident, but he has chosen to do so by opting not to buy insurance. if he believes he is safer than the average driver, then he can gain by saving on insurance.
i don't see why people should be forced to buy things they do not want.
of course this is just another way for the government to channel money into the big ass insurance companies, who of course invest and hedge their premiums through major financial institutions and banks
you arent gambling with your life, you are gambling with the guy you hit's life. get a clue and consider someone elses perspective beside your own.
most 17 yr old guys think they are better drivers than the average driver.. would you like to have all 17yr old uninsured males out there driving on your commute home from work (or whenever you are driving). yea i thought not.
Cool, but then when you hit someone and flake on your obligations, please don't mind a court order taking everything you have (what little it would be) and garnishing your income, for life if necessary, no matter how much you cry and whine.
Yeah, too bad I've never hit anybody before... Do you want to know how many times I have been hit though? And how many times insurance refused to pay for my car being hit? I do not understand why I should pay more for car insurance in six months than the entire value my car is worth. Especially when my or the other party's insurance company refuses to do a damn thing to fix my car.
Yeah, and when you flake, you'll be crying about how "unfair" it was, just like the other whiners on this site that cry about student loans, housing, and on and on. Everything's fun until it doesn't go your way. Then, it's weasel and cry time. Maybe if you get hit and can't pay, it'll be a banker's fault. LOL.
You don't seem to understand. I was on flight status in the U.S. Air Force at one point in time. When I say I know how to drive a fucking car I know what I'm talking about. What pisses me off is the stupid fucking rich kids driving like bats out of hell in their 5star crash test cars and putting everyone else's life on the line because they CAN afford to WEASEL their way out of the consequences.
Jimmy, it is a right. "Liberty" has a definition, and it is expressly protected by The Constitution:
II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135
"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horse drawn carriage, wagon, or automobile, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of The United States of America
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
Enjoy freedom. Defend yourself in court if you must.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8vF9rNqArc
I agree until you cried about your Jealously and envy of others that drive a nice car. This is America and you at least used to have the right to strive for your own individual dreams whatever that may be. There really is no well being when you get pulled over in your nice vehicle and they say "Let me see your papers". Then they find a joint under the seat and decide the car is no longer mine.
Har har har where did I ever say I was envious of those who drive nice cars? Quite the contrary...I think your nice car only serves to show what kind of person you really are.. GREEDY...oink oink oink
You said "It sickens me that people who have the means to drive such fancy, gas guzzling, automobiles parade them around as if their "well being" is something I should strive for." What part of that did I not understand????
I paid for my car (BMW) so I can't understand how that makes me greedy. I didn't steal it, I don't make payments and its 10 years old now. If anything my car is greedy with all the maintenance costs and the gas it guzzles.
And yet you still pay for the gas and maintenance and drive it around? It sounds more like your car owns you.
No my job owns me and I have to be at work at a certain time everyday or I wouldn't have a job and I live in a rural community so we depend on our cars to survive.
I find it ridiculous, if you have a lapse in coverage for any reason, They jack the rate sky high. And they use your credit to determine how good of a driver you are? If you have bad credit, you pay more, even if you are not using credit to pay for the policy!
If you like government you have to love the DMV.
What do you mean? are you talking about self-government? or the current tyranny we are now under?
Or maybe this might be better expressed as occupy the Department of Motor Vehicles. or DMV
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Jimmy. You need to quit being so damned concerned about others. Nobody gives a damn if you drive a nice car or an old jalopy. If you drive and don't have insurance and wreck MY car, I am going to be tempted to break your skinny little pencil neck. nobody "parades around" in their fancy car. You sound mentally ill, like paranoid.
I would like you to try to break my skinny little pencil neck...you will not get very far...if you are more concerned about your piece of shit material property than the life of your fellow human you damn well deserve to get what is coming to you.
Don't be so bitter young man. You need to chill and if you don't like people driving new cars, look the other way when one comes down the road.
If you hit someone and injure them, who would pay for damages?
Why would I ever hit someone in the first place?
I guess there is no need for an ER.
Not if I am to force my family to live out the rest of their lives in chains to pay for my medical expenses. If you think I should be obligated to pay you any money for saving my life, I would rather die.
Chains? Are you a drama queen or what?
are you a cop?
A cop??????? You ARE a drama queen!!!!! You faint a lot?
No, but I sure know of a lot bastards who know how to feign, and their time is coming very soon.
Oh but you are a drama queen. "No chains on my family,,,, LET ME DIE!!!!!!!" I bet your crying right now.
Yes I am, but not for that reason. I'm crying for your soul and where it will inevitably end up some day.
any complaints about home owners insurance?
Is it mandatory?
If you have a mortgage it is required by law.
And why would anyone in their right fucking mind want to sell their soul for a mortgage?
And don't try to tell me "Well everyone needs a place to live..." This is my fucking planet, and I'll live where ever I want thank you very much.
Live wherever you want to, but in this country , housing cost money whether you buy or rent.
And I'm saying today's technology is viable to where you will not have to worry about having money in order to cover your basic living expenses. Period. But you probably already knew that...
Humor me, please explain.
Watch these movies, so that I don't have to waste my time educating someone who does not want to learn anything.
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
Fine, just don't step foot on my property.
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You also have cars, automobiles and horsedrawn carriages. If someone destroys your property you have the right to sue them.
In the United States of America, you do not have the right to deny them their rights without due process of law!