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Forum Post: Observations and Life Lessons from Mexico

Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 28, 2011, 7:38 p.m. EST by Rico (3027)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

My wife and I happen to be spending the holidays in Mexico this year, and I thought I would pass along a story and some observations.

We spent a good part of the day in a small Mexican village yesterday. Several houses and businesses made of an eclectic mix of concrete, mud brick, and ferns lined the dirt roads that crossed the center of town. All were in various states of repair and all boasted a dusty desert pastel of primary colors. The cars, like the homes, were in various states of repair, and several men were in front of their homes working to prepare their cars for the next day's work. There were dogs and children running around the streets playing without restraint, and everyone seemed to know everyone's child and dog by name. Several mothers in faded aprons were cooking over open fires, and there were small groups of neighbors talking everywhere. The sound of children laughing, dogs barking, and neighbors calling out to one another created a symphony of vitality around us. We were smiling as we walked down the street looking for a place to relax, and felt welcomed in spite of the good-hearted teasing we received because of our poor Spanish.

We settled in to a concina with a mangy dog napping on the front porch and ordered some tacos and margaritas. We found the food and service superb. As we leaned back and looked out over the street with margaritas in hand, it dawned on us that these people were happy, happier than any people we have seen in a long time.

In this Mexican village, we surmised that one's "insurance" was the goodwill of one's neighbors, that one's "daycare" was whoever was home, and that everyone had the grandchildren we so desire. All the children are the children of all, and your community could be relied upon to help when help was needed. This, we concluded, may have to do with the fact that everyone in the community shared common Christian values of family, honestly, hard work, and charity.

We left our little village with a smile and fond wishes of a good day by our hostess. We left behind a few pesos and left with much more than a full stomach; a realization that it's not only the 1% that have been seduced, but we the 99%.

When people ask "What has happened to America?" I will forever think back to our little Mexican village and answer, "We have worked so hard not to need one another that we no longer know one another. We have substituted privacy and a fine home full of meaningless possessions for community. We work hard only so we can work harder and have forgotten that true wealth is in our friends and family. We have replaced personal charity for our neighbor with government. We think we can buy happiness and that paved roads, nice clothes, a pretty car, and good teeth are somehow more valuable than people. Though controversial, I will also suggest we have lost the shared faith and community that once bound us together as Americans with the common yet simple values of family, hard work, honesty, and charity. We have lost the American village."

This vacation has been enlightening, to say the least. ;o)



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[-] 3 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

So you probably understand my assertion that all of us, not just the 1%, have been seduced by materialism. Perhaps the 1% are just the extreme byproduct of our own errors ?

By the way, if it matters at all, I am very disappointed in America's treatment of our Mexican neighbors. They work very hard and exhibit better "American Values" than most Americans I know. They too were once a colony and fought off their European masters. Frankly, there is little that separates us but a subtle difference in skin color and language. We should be ashamed. Mexicans already improve America by their presence, and they would enhance our society as much as the Irish, Chinese, Italians, Swedes, Germans, and other immigrants from whom most of us are descended. Heck, the only people who had a right to build a wall in my opinion were the American Indians.

[-] 2 points by BlueRose (1437) 12 years ago

That's why I like to live in Mexican neighborhoods in the US, I feel very safe, they are welcoming people. There is a LOT of freedom in a Mexican neighborhood. You can get someone to help you with your car, or have a garage sale no problem. Can't do that in white neighborhoods as easily. Except for the stray dog part, that is NOT good, they breed and chihuahua sellers are everywhere.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23771) 12 years ago

Love this post. I just said to someone in one of these threads earlier that hunter-gatherers had it together better than we do today.

[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Yep. It's as though we're trying to deny our social nature and think isolation is good.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23771) 12 years ago

It is also why there is such a lack of empathy and compassion.

[-] 1 points by cptnhook (2) 12 years ago

Been reading for a while and this is my first post. I am a 32 year old American and left the U.S. in 2005 after just getting fed up and disgusted with the direction this Country was heading. The competition, greed, lack of compassion, law enforcement, rules, laws, fines, politics, media, ect, ect. I work in restaurants and on yachts so I have been lucky to be able to travel and spend time in a lot of different countries. Mostly Caribbean, Mexico, Central and South America and Europe. Most people who say America is the best place to live have probabably never left there small town or the country. The way rico described Mexico is pretty accurate. In the Caribbean people still help people without expecting anything in return. Recently we pulled the boat into a small out island in the Bahamas. Went to shore in this little settlement, asked a guy where we could rent a car. He said go up the street to the blue house. Meet a guy outside and asked if he rents cars. "Sure mon" paid some money and he said thanks, and we told him we needed it just for the day. He said "cool, see you tomorrow" I said don't you even want to know my name, any info you need? He says "no I trust you, see you tomorrow!" A little bit different than renting a car in the U.S.!!!!! In Europe people work hard but I found that they made it a point to have time for themselves, family, and friends. You can spend an hour having a nice lunch with a bottle of wine. I have to say Spain has the right idea with the siesta. I'm a chef and its really nice to see things made the same way that they were made 100 years before. Not everything is frozen, canned, vaccum packed, and pre made. Going to street markets in France and Italy is awesome. A lot different than going to Costco or a super Wal-mart. I have hundreds of stories like that. I am sometimes out of the U.S. for months and sometimes years working and traveling. The one thing that never fails each time I come back is that there is more greed, more competition, more law enforcement, laws, rules, and fines, taxes, more media and politics intertwined. On another note there are great things about the U.S. The roads don't have many potholes, customer service, most things actually work and you can get parts to fix things, you don't run out of water, ATMs have cash in them and the gas pumps have gas in them at all times, if you ever do need the police or paramedics they show up quick, the ethnic diversity here is like no other country in the world, ect. There are lots of great things about the U.S. As for living abroad sometimes things suck! Crime(real shit) not like the mistameaners you get arrested for here, everything takes forever, police corruption, nobody speaks english, ect. As for me and my life(YOU ONLY GET ONE) I choose to take all of the inconviences of living abroad because I am much happier living out of this country. Life is simple, people are friendly, money and fame are far less important than family and friends, living is cheaper and you don't need insurance for every damn thing that you own. If something doesn't make sense people don't pay for it of stand for it. Unfortunitly our machine/government has become so powerful its not that easy anymore. As for me I took the easy route and left this Country, just wanted to say thanks to OWS for taking some kind of stand. I wish you all the best but it's going to be a tough road ahead. Adios, see you all somewhere on the beach in Mexico!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23771) 12 years ago

Thanks for your post. It is awesome. I agree with you about most everything. I've been lucky enough to travel, too, and so I know what you are talking about. It may sound strange but I'd trade our materialistic "success," the full ATM's, the over and I mean over-abundant food, our enormous homes, our gas guzzling cars and lot of other thing to live a life where people place importance on the right things, friends, family, joie de vivre, as the French say. I mean, what is the point of being here on this earth if we can't enjoy our time here? What are we all striving for?

Keep posting. This forum needs more supporters of OWS as we've been out-trolled lately.

[-] 1 points by cptnhook (2) 12 years ago

Thanks, there were so many reasons that I just woke up one day and decided to leave and it was the best decision I have ever made. I lived in the U.S.V.I. for a while. Although its a u.s. territory its nothing like the u.s. which was a refreshing change. I grew up in South Florida. I came back to visit and went to a beach I used to fish when I was a kid. The state bought the beach as with almost all the others around and charged me 16.00 for going to the beach! I paid it and fished till dark, came back and I had a parking ticket on my car for being in the park past hours!! Are you serious???? When I visit my parents I can't drive 2 miles without seeing someone pulled over by the police. Big law breakers speeding doing 42 in a 35! Thank you police for making us so much safer pulling the mom over in her minivan with the kids. Thank you police officers for arresting a criminal with a dime bag of weed and getting him off the streets so the world is a safe place! The U.S. prision system is a sad joke to the rest of the world. Keep building more prisions, making more money, getting people trapped in a system that you don't want them to get out of. Try and police the world and tell them how they should live. Instead of realizing cultures, countries, and people are different. Here's a big shock "NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE LIKE AMERICA"! The land of the FREE???????? The second my passport gets stamped in another country?, that is when I feel free!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23771) 12 years ago

Thanks for sharing all of your stories. Hopefully we can get America back on track.

[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I travel quite a bit myself, and I often see things I find attractive in other cultures, but I'm far from thinking these other countries and societies are superior to America. I do think we could become better, but I'm not even close to giving up on us !

Beside the sense of community described by my original post, I also think we have gone to far with the rule of law. We really are a Nation of Laws, and I suspect we have taken it to far. I suspect, however, that this may be a reflection of our diversity.

We cannot legislate everything, and the majority of civilization rests on shared values. Whether talking about Denmark or Mexico, I find most of the cultures I think are working well have a deep sense of shared values. Much of this results from a homogeneous culture. In America, we have so many cultures and religions that it's hard to find shared values defining acceptable behaviors or common social methods of enforcing those behaviors (i.e. ostracisation ). We therefore define acceptable behavior in law and enforce that behavior using police. Ostracisation in America, for example, is effected through prison.

I have long argued that a secular society needs to be teaching shared values to it's children via the public schools. This instruction has to include ethics, morals, etc, and they have to be taught as American values. These values need to be so firmly entrenched in our citizens that they are reflected in movies, television, etc. We also need heroes that are selected for their ethical and moral behavior rather than their ability to sing, dance, our manipulate a ball of one shape or another.

I will go one step further and say a diverse culture depends more on communication between people than a homogeneous society where much communication borders on genetic. Due to this, I personally thing we need to select English as the national language and work to suppress use of foreign language in daily transactions; no more multi-lingual ballots, driver's licenses, etc. We need people to assimilate, and we need to be able to talk to one another; the inability to communicate makes us fearful of one another and leads to xenophobia.

These thoughts are really just an expression of my intuition. A good topic for debate and discussion may be "How does one unite a highly diverse and secular nation other than by the shared values of law and money alone? Can we be more ?"

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

But, but . . . they have too much dignity!! They're supposed to be only worker units! NAFTA was designed to destroy their happiness. NAFTA destroyed their peasant corn industry by undercutting prices with U.S. corn, throwing millions off the land (Mexico is not even self sufficient in food any longer). And millions streaming North.

The globalist master class can't stand happiness. Worker units are supposed to be transportable and disposable.

Of course the globalist slave masters themselves could never experience or even appreciate such satisfactions as exist in peasant societies that have evolved to respond to human needs. The embrace of an extended community, traditions that respond to the rhythms of life and death -- bah!!

[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

LOL ! Well Done !

Is it possible we're addicted to a dealer's drug and now clamor more shouting "it's unfairly distributed" ?

Hmmmm ...


[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Did you mean to post this here ? I can't figure out what you're trying to say from your words alone, and it doesn't seem to relate to my comment, so I don't have any context to help ! I bet you commented from the "comments" section of the forum. That section makes it difficult to respond in context.


[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I didn't take nom's comment that way.

I for one, believe we are rightfully headed toward a fully integrated global economy full of Internet connected global citizens. I also believe the US is using it's economic and military power to facilitate that transition, and that the result will be the end of large nation warfare (other than economic). Once all the world's economies are fully integrated, labor rates will equalize and it won't be so hard. Right now, however, we're trying to integrate literally billions of Chinese, and that's causing a real problem.

The fact that I think we are headed toward a global economy doesn't mean we aren't all a bit addicted to money, wealth, and consumption at the expense of economic fairness to those at the bottom. See my definition of greed at http://occupywallst.org/forum/define-greed/#comment-575116 .

We can globalise for peace and learn to act more like a village.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

I used to believe in the promise of one world government -- you know, John Lennon's Imagine and all that. Now I realize that the peace you & globalization promise would be the peace of the prison yard.

It would be a world without human dignity, run by the corporate efficiency principle. One country would produce palm oil, another beef cattle, etc. The citizens' desires would be meaningless, they would be directed what to do.

The power differential between the rulers and ruled would be so great that the ruled would in effect be slaves.

Furthermore I now believe there can be no meaningful democracy without national sovereignty, again due to the power differential. A one world government would degenerate into a world of sky people and mud people. We would be mud people.

Human nature is too corrupt to realistically hope that the NWO would be run by princes of justice. The corrupt and the ruthless would fight their way to the vast riches and power at the top -- and a prisonplanet would be the result.


[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 12 years ago

Are you kidding? Our military empire is trying to impose a de facto one world government through massive violence -- any one world government, in the near future, would be based on force. If they are successful we will all be under their thumb.

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 12 years ago

I agree completely. I think we are lacking some proper component to create the strong communities we will need. But I believe it is of the utmost importance that we try like hell.

Your story reminds me of a Jackson Browne song written, most likely, over 40 years ago. Our Lady of the Well.

"But it's a long way that I have come Across the sand to find this peace among your people in the sun Where the families work the land as they have always done Oh it's so far the other way my country's gone"

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 12 years ago

There is nothing quite like " journeyman/womens" experiences. Travel exposes us to many things that are never taught in any school. You actually are in the midst of different cultures, languages , tastes , smells and ideas. A warm smile opens many doors we often never have the chance to go thru.

Those who oppose vacations and travel, and consider it " evil" and " 1%ish" , are really only fooling themselves and limiting their lives to the little box they live in.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Yep. Furthermore, I don't care what an insulated American thinks about it, I have spent a good amount of money here on food and services as well as locally made objects de' art (my favorite type of souvenir), and the people are happy I have done so. In exchange, the people of Mexico have allowed me to share in a bit of their culture, and while I see much that could be improved, I also see much that I admire. On balance, I have gained more than the people of Mexico, and I thank them for inviting me into their home. They have sure treated me with more graciousness and respect than we typically treat them in our country, and for that I am more than a little saddened and embarrassed.

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 12 years ago

I'm a traveler and often am embarressed by the actions of my fellow Americans in other countries. It saddens me that people go into a different country and are not tolerant of the cultural differences. What I have found though, is when you greet people with a pleasant demeanor and treat them with respect, the gifts in return live long with you. I havent been to PV in a few years, but it was always one of my favorite places. The people are delightful and warm. My new fav place is Costa Rica.. absolutely charming country. Be well and have a Happy Healthy New Year

[-] 1 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

That is why you should create your own egalitarian self-sufficient communities. If a Mexican village can do it: why can't you? Eh?

The point is: all the energy which the OWS movement wastes fighting the establishment could be put to better use.

Instead of creating temporary tent cities in the middle of polluted cities: create your own small community and live in it and work on it and quit your slave job, and become as self-sufficient as possible.

The real problem isn't that you can't do it: the real problem is that you've forgotten HOW to do it, and you haven't even TRIED to do it, and you're too fat, too lazy and too stupid to even want to do it.

[-] 4 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I guess that's the real message of my post; there are people who have not forgotten how to make a community, and we Americans could learn a lot from them.

I don't think we need to create our own little self-sufficient villages, we just need to stop working so much and stop retreating into our comfortable electronic cocoons at the end of the work day.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 12 years ago

I completely agree. We 99% are to varying degrees somewhat responsible for the incredible political polarization and wealth disparity in our country.

However, all humans, whether Mexican, American, Swiss, Chinese, whatever, engage in ranking behaviors. We all consciously or unconsciously monitor ourselves and each other. Our challenge is to manage this innate human tendency to achieve the wonderful sense of community we see in this poor Mexican village. The upper 1% could help us do this, too, don't you think? It seems that they would rather play casino with our pensions and investment than promote healthy communities, doesn't it. It seems at this point in history their ranking behaviors and tendencies have become a bit too extreme, in that they were always out-competing each other to see who could create the biggest, most profitable multinational monopoly even if it meant enslaving factory workers in some far off country, or engage in risky credit default swaps in the hope that the housing market would fail and all those swaps would pay out. The 400 richest Americans are collectively worth almost two trillion dollars. Our wealth disparity is a bit lower than Mexico's. I don't think, despite the idyllic picture of community cooperation, that the still greater wealth disparity in Mexico serves any of these people well. Try living in a village like that for a few years. It might not be all that it seems.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I don't disagree. I wasn't suggesting that we should all live the way I saw people living, I was just suggesting that they seemed to have so much less yet seem so much happier. That's only part of the equation. We also have clearly created a system that motivates people to amass excess wealth at the expense of others to some extent. The beauty of Capitalism is that it aligns so well with human nature, but left unconstrained it brings out the worst in us. We constrain Capitalism through regulation, and it's pretty clear we need to tune up the balance.

[-] 2 points by ebri (419) 12 years ago

Boy, you really hit the nail on the head! This is exactly what must happen. Regulated capitalism is the answer, and it is indeed "clear we need to tune up the balance."

Thank you for articulating this so succinctly.

Happy New Year!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Thanks for not pointing out the embarrassing number of typos in that comment... fixed.

[-] -3 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

Jesus Christ... could you be more useless and pathetic? . Your solution to changing the worldwide corruption is to do nothing, change nothing. What are you going to do when you're not watching a TV, a movie, a video, on the web, on your cell phone, texting messages or typing crap on a screen? Sit alone in your room and stare at the walls? Go shopping at the mall?

There IS nothing else to do because all community activities have been systematically destroyed by commercial for-profit motives. That's why your entire society is bankrupt of all meaning, morals and happiness. You saw a better way of life than the one you have and do you try to make your own life better? No. Instead you go onto a web site because you have no social life.

You don't want to get off your ass and do anything.. You and all the other 311 million Americans should be ashamed of yourselves. Too fat. Too lazy. Spoiled rotten. Too brainwashed.

Modern Technology MAKES you stupid. Every machine that does something FOR you makes you fatter, stupider and lazier until you can't do anything, until you can't think anything, until you can't even get off your chair.

The people living in tents and going to meetings and marching: the 1% of the 99%... they are the only people who are not sitting on their ass watching. They're doing something at least: they're getting together socially.

Do you have any idea how many people in America can't afford a vacation?

The reason the middle class of America is going to be completely destroyed is because it's made up of fat lazy stupid smug arrogant selfish people like you.

The idea that if you have more money than somebody else makes you in some way better... has been destroyed. Yet you still don't want to give up your addiction to it, you keep on clinging to the very material objects which make your life a lonely isolated BORING misery. You just confessed that your entire culture and society and your life is an empty meaningless bad, unhealthy way of life. But do you DO anything about this realization? NO.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Where did I say we don't need change ? See my posts at http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&p=4355#p4355 and http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&p=4356#p4356 . Note that the web-site I put up outlining OWS consumer guidelines that is linked in my posts was taken down by Opera after I spend several hundred hours promoting it and was starting to accumulate a lot of traffic. I'll put it back up elsewhere when I get a chance.

What I do in my spare time is pretty much what most of the 99% does in their spare time, though I suspect I do generally work more hours than many (or so I've been told). I also likely spend more time in these forums than most as this is the only way I can participate in the 'movement.'

I have been very specific in my comments regarding technology trends. See http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-rise-of-the-machines/ and please do bother to read the discussions which follow.

If you persist in your notion that only those sitting in tents are valuable to this movement, then you do not represent the 99%, and you will never get the broad support needed for change. You better start accepting that there are people just as dedicated as any other who must participate in ways other than sleeping in tents.

Yes, I understand there are many people in America that cannot afford a vacation. Does the fact that I can afford a vacation mean that my input is less valuable than others? You do know that Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jay, etc were actually quite wealthy don't you ?

Frankly, a large part of "the reason the middle class of America is going to be completely destroyed" is because of people like you who are unable to engage in civil and respectful dialog, who polarize all discussions, and who accept input from only their own chosen circle of associates. The language and tactics you are employing are virtually indistinguisable from the masses of folks who subscribe to everything Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Rachel Maddow have to say while discounting everything said by those who aren't in their 'circle.'

What do you know about what I am doing to improve my own life and that of others ? You simply assume that since I can afford a vacation, I am a rotten worthless, sub-human, person of no value. You may find it interesting that the reason I can afford a vacation is because I have a great job as an engineer, and those folks in the tents just love buying engineered gadgets like iPhones, iPads, etc. Unfortunately, they have no qualms about buying all their gadgets from off-shore suppliers, so the jobs associated with making the things we engineers design have gone off-shore.

Finally, you lack the fundamental respect of your fellow man required to make any society operable. You and your ilk are a good part of the problem.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 12 years ago

No. I for one celebrate a good vacation for anyone, including you.

I am grateful to be able to write, and occasionally communicate with others on these issues. The process, if nothing else, really helps me clarify my own thinking on the subject.

For instance, I now must read Ron Paul's book, "End the Fed," or at least become acquainted with it. I have also expanded my knowledge of the writings of our "founding fathers." If I remain focussed on this benefit, however insignificant, I can withstand the slings and arrows flung my way by some on this blog, to what purpose is mysterious. They cease to bother me. Occasionally someone contributes something worthwhile to the discussion. Happy New Year!

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Exactly, I participate here primarily so I can test and further refine my perspectives based on inputs and challenges from others. I find such discourse of great value, hopefully to both parties.

Don't forget when reading the writing the founding documents that the Jefferson and Madison went back and forth on State vs Federal powers, and that the amendments and Supreme Court rulings are just as much a part of the Constitution as the original document; the Founders were smart enough to understand times would change, and they made it a living document subject to Amendment by Congress (or a Convention called by Congress at the States' request) and interpretation by the Supreme Court.

I personally love the Fed, but I doubt I'll convince you, so I'll leave that for another day !

Prospero Ano !

[-] 2 points by ebri (419) 12 years ago

Thank you for all of this. I agree with all of what you say and it certainly is thought-provoking, in a refreshing way, like in college, that time in life for which I am increasingly grateful.

Happy New Year!

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 12 years ago

Bravo to you for this post. You are in my head with alot of what you say. Meanwhile, if you are still in PV, go to La Bodeguita del Medio, for dinner and the best mojitos in the world. It's right in the center of town opposite the Malecon.

[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I'll put La Bodeguita del Medio and Rincon de Guayabitos on the request list for my head vacation schedule planner (my wife). I let her make all the decisions because I figured out a long time ago that when she's happy, I'm happy ;o)

[-] 1 points by CatLady2 (248) from New York, NY 12 years ago

Very good thinking lol I will say they have the best Cuban food this side of Havana with live music overlooking the Malecon.. its really a very fun night out. Have you seen any of the whales? This should be peak migration for them down there .

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Well said. I am sure as you have noted that when people let their emotions get in the way they can't think straight and as a result what they do project is irrational thinking.

[-] -3 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

You are a rotten worthless sub-human : all tourists are rotten worthless sub-humans The fact that you have enough money to go on vacations makes you 1,000 times more evil and corrupt than the idiots sleeping in tents in the middle of a city. They are living together and BEGINNING to create a living community however temporary:

You are not

You have too much MONEY to be willing to change how you live. You LOVE YOUR MONEY AND MATERIAL POSSESSIONS too much, even MORE THAN YOU DO HUMAN BEINGS.

If you want to be intelligent: you go into the OWS meetings: tell everyone to leave their tents and go find a place that is clean and healthy and establish a community in the nicest, the best place you can find to raise CHILDREN and have FAMILIES who LOVE EACH OTHER in a COMMUNITY... like the one you envy and wish you had.

Then pool all of your money and resources: That means you cash in all your investment savings and bonds and stocks and the poor people who only have 3 dollars in their pockets a have just as many rights as you do in deciding how the communal chest is used and spent.



You can't create a fucking thing. You're a controlled possessed piece of shit: a fraud: an empty zero. You don't really want to become a better human being. You don't really want to create your own happiness which you saw in a Mexican village and ENVY them their health and happiness.

What I DO know is that you are a secretive paranoid freak. All open egalitarian societies can only work if you have no secrets from each other. Instead of telling me what you are doing to become a better human being: you instantly turn into a turtle: because you're doing NOTHING to become a better human being. If you were doing something: you'd tell me.

Learn this freak: I can spot evil every time. Every time you try to hide you expose yourself as being guilty of committing evil. . All secrecy is EVIL. The instant you start hiding who you really are and what you really do: you have given yourself away as someone who has something they need to hide.


All evil liars HIDE All liars keep their lives a SECRET

All evil liars refuse to SHARE ANYTHING HUMAN with other people except MONEY.

So you gave the poor Mexicans a few peso's you fucking stinking rich impoverished asshole and went back to your lonely drab unhappy wealthy life in America: and did nothing.

Move back here to that village. Give you life to that village. Give every penny you have to it. Become as poor as they are, live like they do: and you will be happy. You're so fucking stupid it is beyond belief. Live where you find love and happiness. Create MORE HAPPINESS by loving people who can love you back. Do you do this? NO! why? BECAUSE YOU'RE nothing but a A FUCKING TOURIST: a sight-seer. The Mexicans smile and take your money. What you do NOT see is how they talk about you after you are gone. How they hate your guts. How they make the show for you: and take your money every way they can. They will never share their lives with you. You will never share your life with them. You will never know them for a very good reason: You don't know these people because you're nothing but a dirty fucking tourist.. All tourists are sub-human filth.

You don't know what these Mexicans really think about you and how they feel about you: They just want your fucking MONEY MONEY MONEY. That's the only reason tourists are tolerated ANYWHERE. If you didn't have any MONEY to give them: they'd send you BACK to where you belong. You're just another boring stupid a capitalist moaning about the ills of your greedy capitalist culture and not refusing to learn from your own life-lessons and insights.

[-] 2 points by imbetterthanturak (4) from Toronto, ON 12 years ago

turak, just read some of your comments. sounds like you want the human race to go back to being hunter gatherers. thats fine with me if you do that, but who the fuck do you think you are to try to force your bullshit on everyone else? if someone has worked hard to make a decent enough living to be able to go on vacation then who the fuck are you to shit all over them? its not their fault that you are a lazy subhuman piece of shit that blames everyone else for his problems. get a fucking job you fucking worthless cunt

[-] -2 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

you are a worthless ass I am self-employed I do not lie You are a lazy subhuman piece of shit projecting your stinking filth I do not blame anyone for my problems

you are a woman hater and an obscene person who is filled with hate

When a person calls a man a woman as an epithet: that means he hates all females.

The human species needs to stop insulating itself from Nature and live as you were designed to live: naked. Your ancestors did not do that. You were not designed to hunt or gather. That idea is just one of the countless lies and myths you have been brainwashed into believing in.

Only if you study anthropology and study it in depth for over 20 years will you understand the history of your species.


[-] -3 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

You sound like a well-meaning person who has not forgotten how it is to be poor.

BUT: you have not educated yourself as to the true state of affairs.

Tourism destroys communities. Money is the root of evil. Tourists bring money. Money creates greed and selfishness.

If you ever study what happens to any region which begins to attract tourists: you will find that community goes DOWN: it loses all of its humane integrity as a group pf people who care about each other. The almighty worship of the dollar: the destruction of human decency by the commercial obsession to make a profit: the mutual robbery and corruption and swindling which must be practiced in order to cheat other people out of their money: is the society you live inside.

Thankfully: the places I lived in did not become tourist attractions. They were beautiful because there were no tourists there. Have you ever seen a tourist town? A town whose entire economy is based upon making money off tourists? They are the most disgusting non-human Disneyland fakes on earth. There are no decent human beings. No people who smile and enjoy their life. You are being an apologist. You are apologizing for the system that has dehumanized and degraded you, and because you have not educated yourself about the true facts of how all capitalist business is run, and how the tourist industry destroys human community spirit: you do not know what you are babbling about.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

The opinions we hold regarding the character of others when we know nothing of them is a sure reflection of our own character. The character reflected in your rants is pitiful, and I feel nothing but sorrow on your behalf. I wish there was something I could do to help you, but I don't think there is. Alas, you are one fellow man for whom I can offer no assistance, but you do have my compassion and understanding. I'll, just have to concentrate on those I can help.

[+] -4 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

Go stick your f bullshit up your stinking rotting asshole; freak You're another feces of rotten filth that needs to be wiped out. You aren't human. You're a fucking mechanical freak who has never experienced life and have no human feelings.

[-] 2 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Hey, you just keep getting worse, and I'm worried for you.

Should I solicit folks to identify a therapist in your area ?

[+] -4 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

I puke on filth like you

[-] 2 points by imbetterthanturak (4) from Toronto, ON 12 years ago

you are a real fucking tough guy on the internet aren't you turak? i see you are in canada, but where exactly? if you are anywhere near the GTA i'd love to meet you in person and see if you wanna puke on a filthy subhuman tourist like me

[-] -2 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

I live in Montreal. You don't know what tough is. Toronto is 360 miles south of Montreal. You shouldn't use word when you don't mean them. That is why you are a piece of shit. Your use of words stink. You do not know what love is. You have never loved anything in your life. To use the world 'love' as you do, is indicative of what kind of scum you actually are.

Get this through your fucking head.

All truths are connected to each other nobody has a monopoly on the truth All logic is truth All truth is logical

You cannot have an opinion about what is true

The truth is the truth; whether you fucking like it or not The facts are the facts; whether you fucking like it or not

IN order to discover the truth you first need to have two things:


You cannot have courage without honesty You cannot have honesty without courage

Only when you have the courage to be honest will you be able to face the truth about yourself.



[-] -3 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

you troll are so fucking obvious: go fuck yourself and stop copying other posts and stick your jewish shit back up into your mouth


[-] -3 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

Don't you ever get tired of lying? Lying is a disease


[-] -3 points by turak (-812) 12 years ago

just a few questions: ...... how old are you?

And when you went to school, is this how they taught you to write English?

You went to a university and you can't even parse a sentence?

why do you freaks keep on coming here at all?


[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 12 years ago

and not a pair of air jordan retros to be found.

I get it rico and can relate......would you consider returning for good?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I will retire soon, and this is one option. Life can end quite abruptly, and it's pretty clear one could retire here at 55 and be happy rather than work for another 15 years and retire in an isolated home somewhere in the US. We'll also start looking for American villages... there must still be some around !

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

I personally have enjoyed plenty a visit to several mountain villages in Arizona with all of the pine trees and such. Its supposed to be better for your health as well living at altitude.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Hmmm... we'll have to give that a try. I also want to check out Taos NM. My wife and I are woefully remiss in visiting our own United States and plan to start addressing that soon. We may buy an all electric Tesla Model S (100% American) just to tour the US and get to know our own people better before we make any final decisions.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

As with anything it depends on where you go and who you talk to. I have passed through there and my heart just about stopped.

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 12 years ago

I just retired at 50. We have traveled extensively and will be traveling south again through Mexico and into SA first half of next year. I understand the attraction but would be hard for me to live permanently outside the US. But things can change.

Well worded OP BTW.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I'm not too sure I could ever leave America either, but I'm in Puerto Vallarta, and I find it to be a nice blend of America and Mexico. There are hundreds of thousands of American and Canadian ex-pats here, English is common, people are helpful in teaching me Spanish, there's no violence of note, and the flights to the USA are cheap enough that I can visit my family around the US cheaper than from my current home. I also have to admit I love the Mexican people and their culture. Everyone is very friendly and quick to laugh, and we have yet to have anything but outstanding meals here. We also really enjoy the fact that Christmas is, well, Christ-mass here, and there are nativity scenes everywhere ! The weather is better than Florida, and the cost of living is very low (real estate taxes are only 0.1%).

If you get a chance, check out Buenos Aires Argentina. It is a beautiful city that rivals most in Europe and was my personal favorite in South America, but it's too far from home to be a realistic choice for retirement. Ditto for our other favorites, Sidney Australia, Auckland New Zealand, and Edinburgh Scotland; they're all very friendly, but they're all too far from family.

The village I was describing is on the road to the Puerto Vallarta zoological gardens by Mismoyola, a favorite locale of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton and the site where Night of the Iguana and Predator were filmed.

Thanks for the compliment on my writing; it was my first love that I abandoned for engineering money, and I hope to return to it in retirement !

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 12 years ago

Rico, I like your observations, and we've been to many of the same places. I spent 3 months in BsAs and 1 in Auckland--both are fantastic places to live. I've traveled around the world, and have concluded that the US is not the greatest place to live for sure... there are many better places... do not misconstrue, I am not naive about those places, nor am I down on the US, but the EGO that the US is the best always and the pinnacle of everything is utterly laughable. I completely agree with your Mexico experience, as I have observed the same throughout all of South America and Central--been there many times... many people down there encouraged me to grab a wife and stay due to the family values, the women will treat you well and look after you and be your friend--and they contrasted their culture with the Paris Hilton skank who is pure selfish, dumb, vacuous, coach purse carrying, miniature dog toting, Mcmansion living, family hating, cheating, drunk, etc....

AND YOU KNOW, I believe in my heart that they are right.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I for one am hoping that we America can transform itself. Moving away isn't out of the question completely, but my home is still here and that will never change. The primary purpose of my post was to remind folks that there are things to be learned from other cultures.

One of our greatest strengths used to be the the spirit reflected by the poem at the Statue of Liberty "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Unfortunately, we have become xenophobic and have forgotten the contributions immigrants make to our society. The Mexicans to our south are a prime example, in my opinion, of people who could help renew America if we would only let them.

I'm also a big fan of Americans spending more time abroad. A stint in the Peace Corp or some similar activity would help American's better understand the world and our place in it. Perhaps as a prerequisite to state funded college ? I don't know, but Americans need to "get out more."

I'm not a big fan of rap music, and I do think we need to change and improve, but 50 Cent gave a great interview with Piers Morgan ( http://youtu.be/yEfe2mQthnc ) in which he said (paraphrasing), "I grew up on the streets, and I know a lot of people in prison, but even the conditions they face in American prison are better than those of the people I met in Africa and am trying to help now." Again, I do think we need change, but I also think 50 Cent is offering a perspective that many people in the Occupy movement simply don't understand. The Peace Corp could help.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 12 years ago

i agree on learning from other cultures and the lack of it in the US, it's definitely broadening and can impart true knowledge and wisdom--and it's probably why there's the naive ego attitude about the US. i like 50 cent's point--so true, i've been in the Rio and BsAs barrios, and in el salvador (the poorest country in the western hemisphere),,, our prisoners have a high standard of living in comparison.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 12 years ago

I loved PV when I was there! So many great shops and restaurants! Had the best time ever sitting under the palapa hut on the beach all day with never ending Margaritas and Coronas. Love that place. I had the same experience with the nicest people ever! I had more fun in PV than in Hawaii (as beautiful as Hawaii is). PV has so much charm and wonderful friendly people. Isn't there an old historic church in the center of town? Kind of small but all stone and very decorated. I don't know if there are still services there. But wondering if there was anything special for the holidays maybe. I remember a great restaurant up on the mountain overlooking the city below and the bay. I love all of the open air restaurants and bars. We would bar hop half the night. So much fun. Then cab back to the hotel which was a little bit south of town. The cabs were tiny little falling apart cars. The cab drivers drive crazy! I thought I was sure to die going over the edge of a cliff in a cab! Too funny!! But I was going to die happy anyway! The scuba diving/snorkeling wasn't the greatest, the water is more greenish than clear blue.

Anyway, your original post was really great too. I don't think we're such a hopeless bunch though. We've gone a little overboard with consumerism perhaps. But I think that many people have to work harder and harder just to keep up with the basic necessities.

Elizabeth Warren explains it way better than me. And has some intersesting insights and statitistics to back it up. It's kind of a long lecture. 1 hour. But worth it. Find a good spot on the beach!


[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Yes, the grand old church is still there, and they were doing something Christmas Eve, but I didn't want to intrude; I'm not Catholic, and a church is not a 'tourist' attraction when services are underway. We did linger just outside the door with our heads bowed as we listened to some of the service.

I'm still debating whether we could really move out of America. It's kind of a fun fantasy, but my wife and I are so darned, well, American to the core I'm not sure we could really do it. We still have a lot of America to see, and we might end retiring north/south (i.e. Maine in Summer, Florida in Winter). Our kids haven't yet had kids of their own either, and when one of them does, we'll probably want to be wherever they are ;o)

I will never give up on America; it has a remarkable capacity to adapt and change. All that happened is that I was exposed to a new culture, and noted a few things that might be worth us considering/remembering. I generally find something like this in all cultures (at least those that are free enough I'm willing and able to visit), and I think the blending of cultures in America is one of our strengths.

I'm downloading the Warren video so I can watch it whenever I want (WiFi is spotty). I sometimes disagree with her, but I always find her interesting and respect what she has to say.

If you want an interesting video, go watch the one at http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/182105-1 (scroll in to about the 6 minute mark). The guy speaking is a former Naval War College professor, and the Power point brief he is giving is the one that circulated all through Washington around the time of 9/11. He had been working with Canter Fitzgerald (mostly killed in the 9/11 attacks) before the attacks, and had a strategy ready to go. From what I can tell, the USA has been following his strategy since 2002. The briefing he is giving in the video is post-de-facto and incorporates the events between 2001 and 2004 (the date of the video) with the core strategy he developed before 9/11. I'm not suggesting you view it because I think it's good or right, I'm asking you to view it because I think it explains a lot regarding US policy and actions.


[-] 0 points by DiogenesTruth (108) 12 years ago

what a crock of bullshit the OP is slinging. he is in a foreign country on vacation, enjoying all the fruits that our wonderful capitalistic society has created for him amongst people who cant even begin to imagine how rich our poorest are.

a country where they murder each other by the busload, because they are so poor.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Have you spent any time in Mexico recently ? You seem to suffer from the typical stereotypes shared by many Americans. See some of the factoids I posted below at http://occupywallst.org/forum/observations-from-mexico/#comment-550877 . Mexico does have a middle class, and most stores/shops are still owner owned.

Yes, I have done reasonably well for myself in 'the system,' but I wouldn't say I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth either. My father died when I was 1, my step father when I was 12, and my mother when I was 18. I dropped out of high school, joined the military during the Vietnam era, and never completed college. I apprenticed my way up from technician to engineer over a 30 year career. I had some times when I didn't know how I was going to get by, and I've always lived well below my means so I could put some away as a result. My salary has been pretty good and stable since I finally made it to engineer thanks to the comparatively small number of people willing to pursue the field in the USA. There's a shortage of engineers, and most engineers have been doing pretty well even in the post 2008 environment.

To the extent Mexico suffers from violence these days, it's mostly driven by the conflict between competing drug gangs that fueled by the demand for illegal drugs in America. The violence they are suffering is not unlike the violence we suffered as the various gangs and organized crime families fought over turf in the years after prohibition. Mexico is fighting this crime just as we did; with a strengthened federal task force and a lot of determination.

[-] 0 points by DiogenesTruth (108) 12 years ago

you dont need OWS to create a community. just move to small town America to feel the communal spirit, its not going to happen in NYC or Mexico City.

i travel Mexico a lot, i know the culture and the people. you are right, there is a very strong sense of community in the small villages but those people likely never get more than 20 miles away from their birthplace, due to poverty, and you are trsveling the world because of capitalism. do you understand?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Of course I understand. I'm not advocating we all become poor, nor that we leave our cities. I'm simply saying that we could likely learn a bit from the small village experience. If you read my other comments here, you'll note I'm also planning a grand tour of America to visit our own villages.

Note, by the way, that most people never get far from their home, and it seldom has to do with poverty alone. Within my own extended family, most can afford to travel, but elect to spend what money they have on material possessions instead. Even the Mexican cab driver I met yesterday mentioned that he has never left Puerto Vallarta, even though he could afford to do so; "Why leave here? It's beautiful and there's no place better worth visiting !"


[-] 0 points by Rowsdower (27) 12 years ago

Beautiful story! Now if we can just convince more citizens that the answer is to copy a third world shithole.........

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Or alternatively, to pick and choose lessons found in various cultures to improve our own. One does not have to be poor to develop and participate in a greater sense of community. Finally, it is downright disrespectful to declare Mexico a 'shithole.' That kind of language reflects insular thinking devoid of factual understanding. See some of the factoids about Mexico I posted in my comment below at http://occupywallst.org/forum/observations-from-mexico/#comment-550877 .

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

I'm surprised you didn't get food poisoning.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

Before the Federal and state gov't made it a hassle to get to Mexico, I went there to get my dental work done. The cheapest and most hospitable environment to sit and shoot the shit while I wait for some top notch service.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

So I've heard. My dad though hasn't had the best times in Mexico.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

You do realize that's a bit stereo-typical, right ?

There are over 100 million people not dying in Mexico.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

I'm sorry I couldn't help myself. I've been filled with several stories about mexico when he was posted there for the Navy back 30 years I think about two different occasions that he got food poisoning.

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I forgive you on behalf of the Mexican people ;o)

Just to prevent any further occurrences of stereotypical statements about Mexico, did you know...

Mexico is not the country most Americans think it is. It is rapidly gaining parity with the older nations of the west.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

I do realize that, I really do. Thanks for the second one. I didn't know that. Although I have read that the mexican government is more corrupt than the U.S. and that with few exceptions you are either monetarily poor or monetarily rich. Although this could be another stereotype I've heard about. Any information?

[-] 1 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

I'm an American on vacation in Puerto Vallarta, so I'm only a guest here.

According to the CIA World Factbook ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mx.html ), Mexico does suffer from a lot of income disparity ( the top 10% earn 41% of income while the bottom 10% earn only 1.5% ). Furthermore, my recent readings indicate there remains a lot of corruption, but the current President (Felipe Calderón) is famous for his efforts in fighting corruption across the country. All told, I'd say Mexico is a lot like the USA around the time of prohibition when we were fighting organized crime as they are.

Regardless of their income disparity, my limited observations suggest the people are happier. This probably has to do with the fact that they have a stronger social framework and simply don't place as much importance on material wealth as we do.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

Sounds about right. Thanks for the information.


[-] 0 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

What you've lost is the American CONGRESS. You lost it to Wall Street. You can get it back but you have to get your act together, work hard, and give it some time.