Forum Post: Observation, the Midwest and South - Reaching out
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 3, 2011, 12:13 p.m. EST by occupythewest
(46)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I’ve had opportunities to travel all across the country and to every region of it. I’ve made an observation while watching these protest that most of the larger and more influential groups are centered on the East and West coasts with fewer groups in the South and Midwest (excluding Chicago and Atlanta.)
I think one of the major reasons one sees this detachment from the 99% you see in the South and Midwestern populations is because they have been fortunate enough to have limited contact with the 1% and the major corporations you find on the East and West coasts. If you look at this recession and the areas where housing costs the most and housing was hit the hardest and joblessness is prevalent, it is almost always the areas where higher portions of 1%ers reside. I think that 1%ers, wile affecting the economy and our government overall, tend to increase troubles and hardship on those close to them geographically too. As a result of geographically concentrated hardships, I think that while Southerners and Midwesterners have felt the effects of the economic collapse, they true effects of the 1 percent’s greed has been largely removed from their areas and as such they lack the overall connection the movement of the 99%. I don’t say that to degrade these people but to point out that through the absence of the 1% in large numbers, they have been pulled into accepting a broken system without seeing its full results.
I say all this to make the case that more effort needs to be placed on reaching out to Southerners and Midwesterners to promote larger and more active movements in their areas like what you find in Oakland, New York, Boston, ect.
Thanks
P.S. Being from the west coast I have seen first hand the difference in circumstances between the West and these other areas that lack larger numbers of 1percenters.
P.P.S. It’s also amazing just how few 1 percenters it takes in an area to drive it into the ground for everyone else. – Personal observation/thought
I grew up about an hour north of Detroit and have lived in Wisconsin and Ohio before relocating to Florida.
The Midwest has virtually given up both on government and the state of the country. People raise their kids knowing that it is highly likely they will have to someday relocate in order to find work.
They do however have such a low cost of living that in some ways regardless of how bad it gets for the rest of the country they still get by. That is the attitude there "we'll get by". I can guarantee you that while the union presence may be strong the majority view OWS and protesters with reserved disdain because it is foreign to them. I'm guessing the south is similar in a lot of ways.
Is regional apathy due to the lack of big money, the ingrained culture or lack of diversity? Depends on your point of view but most likely it is a combination of them all.
Interesting points. That’s kind of sad having kids in one place knowing that you’re going to have to move to get opportunity, that description shows that there is a great opportunity for OWS to reach people there. I guess a “we’ll get buy” attitude would create a sort of apathy towards al that is going on and that the attitude would make people less willing to take matters into their own hands. And I think that along with what Hardfact said would account for the south. I’m wanting to know though how do we reach them? They’re the center of the country and there are a lot of people there. We can’t just have a movement that’s located on the coasts with no plan to draw in people to the movement in the center part of the country. I’ll be going to St. Louis this spring actually and would like to do some stuff there but I think some more attention in general should be given towards these areas and to reaching out to the few (very few) protesters there are compared to the larger population in the south and Midwest.
Agriculture and jobs would be the keys in these locations. They aren't too concerned with corporate rights and large banks in the rural areas. I'm not sure how the plight of farmers could be tied into OWS but if someone smarter than myself could come up with a solution you'd have a working platform.
Cheap labor is a big one, hence my earlier comparison with southern culture and slavery. The culture, the agriculture system with its corporate ownership, all of that creates the current lack of interest and ultimately the exploitation of labor we see in these areas. We need to embrace the reformers of southern culture and the reformers of agriculture in these areas.
When it comes to farmers there is the problem of corporate governance by companies such as Monsanto and Pioneer that basically control everything and tie farmers to our current chemical intensive, cheap labor required, and unsustainable agriculture system. And through the ownership of seed the corporations control the farmers.
I think there are larger reasons for some of this than just the fact that the south is removed from the 1%. This isn't really true for the midwest but when it comes to the south I think this is a cultural issue. The early southern economic system was built on slavery, forcing people to work for the profit of others with zero pay. Now that system is obviously illegal but I believe hidden sympathy for a similar system can still be found in that culture which now allows people to work for the profit of others for LITTLE pay. Don't think that this system is still celebrated and held on to? Look at the heroes that people in the south still like to have, Robert E. Lee, Jackson, Stuart, all things confederate, obviously some southerners have dropped this culture and realized the truth about this system but I think past slavery and a culture geared towards a paid version of this system is what makes the south line up with the 1%. As for the midwest. I think some of that is because of the way old system southerners have exported their culture to these areas, just look at an election map and how these people vote in national elections. The solution here is cultural change and there are southerners who have embraced this, we just must advance it. The past and culture is the problem, it is a 1% past.
Actually what we were taught is Yankees had the money and they just come down here to use us for cheap labor. The north had factories and Unions, the south had natural resources. We know the South went to war because we wanted to sell our stuff to Europe and make more than the north would pay us. Most people in the south were farmers and they had a lot of children not a lot of slaves. People without any land had to sell day labor and they wasn't paid enough to feed themselves well threw the winter. They lived hand to mouth, they did things that were too dangerous to risk hurting a slave with. A free man with no land and no factory job, now that was bad. It didn't get any better for them until the slaves were freed and then they were even lower status than them. Former slaves were paid low wages in the summer, they had to borrow in the winter to eat, then they was in debt to plantation owners who rented them a shack and loaned them money for food. The plantation owner had to give them less now that they were free and certainly didn't cost him anymore. So the moral of this story is slaves are made by debts. Think about that America!!!
interesting
not something I had considered
People were taught the civil war was all about slavery. The north planned to punish the rich by freeing the slaves. The plantation owners had borrowed heavily on their slaves and when the collateral walked off, the land could be snatched. Some slaves tried to go north for a good paying job. Not many stayed, many turned around and came back south. They said there wasn't a good life to be had there either, better the devil you know and warmer winter. But the losers of wars don't often get tell their story. Black people use to tell people freedom turned out to be as bad or worse than slavery. Its hard for black people to imagine that, having not lived threw going from being property that had value to being free to starve and be killed was even worse. People felt free to damage their person as they wouldn't even have to pay the owner for damages! I am wondering if Americans today put in more hours a week than slaves did.
The south, slavery, and southern culture that embraced it was no better than the industry and corporations exploiting people for cheap labor today. The south was economically different then than northern industry but the thought process follows the same exact lines as the 1 percent today. Instead of buying people today they use debt and low paying jobs. I firmly believe that south was wrong and one can see what extremes it took to preserve its system when the south thought it was threatened, I worry if the 1 percent will try the same, war and violence to preserve its system. The south was exploited by industry after the war and made poor and vulnerable, but that is what can redeem them from the past. They have seen what it is like and if they abandon what is left of their 1 percent/slave making/using culture, they can help bring about the change we as humans need.
They already make wars in foreign lands to control resources. People may have to die here in America. People in other places are dieing already. The question is how many do they find unnecessary? If they are working to reduce the world population, a lot may die.
I do not deny that our wars today are over resources, not at all. I don't think that the civil war is very relevant to today other than the fact that it accounts for the social and political views of some southerners who aren't in favor of ows.
You really have no clue about these people. They simply want a simple life with little to no government intrusion. They don't ask for everything to be provided by the state and therefor don't blame the state when they come down on hard times. The coastal (dare I say liberal) cities where these protests are strongest are in areas where taxes are high, illegal immigration is high, unemployment and drug use are high, government programs to fight poverty are ridiculously huge and the cost of living is through the roof. There is little to no true community in the cities as compared to the rural parts of the nation so you have little to no real interaction with your fellow Americans and yet so many of these detached people think they know what everyone else feels and what is best for them. No, the south and Mid-west do fine when left alone.
Like was pointed out by the original poster, the coast has the most 1 percent and as such has the worst situation. The Midwest and south culturally play along with the 1 percents thought process and as such don't lose as much, it is also (as a result) these two areas where the greatest crackdowns and most intolerance towards peaceful protesters is shown.
Most intolerance towards "peaceful" protesters? Have you been watching what is going on in the great state of California. All eyes have been averted from New York and and are now focused on the violence coming from the west coast. The liberal mega-cities were supposed to be the great havens of tolerance and community, but they regress into self protective elitist towns each time their ways are threatened, but so many here find these cesspools to be bastions of enlightenment while they from upon people who want to live a simpler life. They are simply reaping what they have sown.
California was a mostly restricted incident and not endorsed by OWS. The arrests in the south ad Midwest are WITHOUT ows violence and those protesters are peaceful except for the occasional loon not endorsed by ows.
There is still violence in Cali and OWS cannot endorse or chastise anything as there is no central leadership, which means it has no true voice. The action of one person associated with the movement can be seen as an endorsed action simply because there is no one to publicly say that it is not sanctioned. When it comes to a movement like this, perception becomes reality and the perception is clearly turning toward the opinion that this is a left wing, (potentially violent) movement that is about entitlements and wealth redistribution.
The people as a whole and the general assemblies DO NOT endorse it and as such, once you leave faux news, you'll find that a few radicals do not speak for the movement.
Why do you assume that I watch "faux news"? Just because I see the violence and do not condone it, that does not make me some right winger (nor am I a left winger). You general assemblies have not made much in the way of public statements and the longer this goes as some gaggle of leaderless kids upset at the world, the sooner this movement will fade away. It is already losing the independents and middle America and will soon be nothing left but a bunch of angry leftists, but you just keep accusing people of watching some news channel. Keep up the good fight there.
Just because the media dousnt report every GA meeting conclusion doesn't mean we don't condone violence. Violence doesn't define us.
Until you have a voice to bring your idea forth in an organized manner, you will not have the legitimacy needed to create any real change. This movement is becoming a fad that has almost run its course. Without leadership or guidance, it is only natural for it to die off quickly.
The movement is growing across political, racial, ethnic, religious, sexual, and income lines. It isn't going to die, it isn't a fad. We're a true grassroots movement and not going anywhere
While I wish you the best of luck with that, I have no such confidence in this movement.
Lots of people in the south expect to be poor. That you will struggle is a given. We are told we can't have good wages or the factory will go to Mexico. Deals are made so workers can't be paid more than a Walmart distribution center pays as they had put in their contract that they would be the top payer for x amount of years. I live in Georgia, but way south of Atlanta where most of the state's money is. The problem is most people go to church and some preachers back a party or candidate. We see a lot of republicans who #1 want their guns for hunting, # 2 want to pass laws to force people to be good Christians. They are really poor for the most part so they are afraid of anything that might cost them more money they don't have. They get state insurance when they can and free lunches at the schools, some use discounted food stores open to low income people and food pantries. We have cheap thrift stores so we can get clothes. They think if they vote democrat that as good as going out and having an abortion. Its not a smart informed decision to vote Republican. If you want a southerners vote you need to be pro-guns at the very least. They might a lot of them swing right over knowing that once they have their guns they need to protect grandma's social security, one-legged Uncle Bob's disability, and Peachcare and wick for the baby. They want guns. You want votes democrats, go pro NRA! PLEASE! Then they might believe you say pregnant women should make their own choices, and gay people should marry like everybody else if they are living in sin anyways. You can't be all about choices and try and take their guns! Sorry, Georgia is poor outside of Atlanta and they all depend on government programs at some point. The issues are divided so one party doesn't win a landslide. I sometimes wonder if the democrats and republicans drew out of a hat to decided who was pro this and who was pro that!!!
It is stupid just how divided these issues are in these areas between the two parties. But I doubt embracing guns is the answer simply because it supports Corporate arms and the ows message transcends and can survive without endorsing guns because of how it speaks to our basic needs and rights as humans.
This is why it does me no good to vote, though. I'm telling you what matters to these people. but the goal of the parties is mix up what they are for and against in irrational ways if need be to keep elections close. How rational is to oppose abortion and be for guns so you can shoot them down if you don't think their momma raised them right? Arrest is only okay if you can fry them later. People want what they want. It doesn't mean I agree with it, just that seen it too much not to notice.
Well our system is pointless, politicians are bought off anyway so voting isn't worth it. We need change and we can't get it with the way corporations rule everything.
Atlanta, Georgia
Five people were arrested early morning Monday in Atlanta
On October 26, 53 Occupy Atlanta protesters were arrested when police forcibly evicted them from the park in an early morning raid.
Atlanta GA
Forum Post: 'Protesting against equality and change." Occupy Atlanta represents!
Posted Oct. 28, 2011, 1:27 p.m. EST (1 minute ago) by hahaha This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://youtu.be/OW56Z-0xwIQ
Atlanta
Police moved into a downtown Atlanta park and arrested around 50 Occupy Wall Street protesters who had been encamped there for about two weeks early Wednesday, while across the country in Oakland, Calif., officers in riot gear stood watch after clashes there with demonstrators overnight.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/must-see-this-video-on-protests-around-the-country/
http://www.wsws.org/mobile/articles/2011/nov2011/owsr-n09.shtml
Dallas TX
Dallas Calls for General Strike: Nov. 30th
http://occupywallst.org/forum/dallas-calls-general-strike-nov-30th/
Chicago, IL
When Wisconsin Governor gave a speech at Chicago's Union League Club the morning of Nov 3rd, he has some unexpected guests: Stand Up! Chicago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oHRdiklTlU&feature=player_embedded#!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/99-visit-governor-walker/
Richmond Virginia
Occupy Richmond Virginia rally
Posted Nov. 4, 2011, 6:34 p.m. EST (0 seconds ago) by MattLHolck | edit | delete This content is user submitted and not an official statement
"Posted by afp on Nov 4, 2011 in Local/State | 0 comments
The American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia will provide legal assistance to a photographer who was arrested for trespassing while taking pictures of the police during the recent sweep of Occupy demonstrators encamped at Kanawha Plaza in Downtown Richmond.
Ian Graham, a photographer for RVA Magazine in Richmond, was attempting to document the removal of Occupy demonstrators when he was told by police that he must confine his picture-taking to an area designated for press. Graham went to the press area but left when he determined that it restricted his view of the unfolding events. When he questioned the police’s authority to require him to remain there, he was arrested for trespassing."
http://augustafreepress.com/2011/11/04/aclu-to-represent-magazine-photographer-arrested-at-occupy-richmond-rally/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/magazine-photographer-arrested-at-occupy-richmond-/
Iowa
Forum Post: Whoo Hoo! Score One for Iowa We Hit 'em Where It Will Hurt- The Caucuses!! Please Read
Posted Oct. 31, 2011, 8:45 p.m. EST (16 hours ago) by Alithea (Iowa City, IA) This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/31/first-on-cnn-occupy-des-moines-ctivists-to-propose-shutting-down-candidate-offices-during-iowa-caucuses/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/whoo-hoo-score-one-for-iowa-we-hit-em-where-it-wil/
Oklahoma
Forum Post: OKC protester passes due to suspected natural causes
Posted Nov. 1, 2011, 2:13 a.m. EST (26 minutes ago) by Ksentre This content is user submitted and not an official statement
An occupy protester in OKC has passed away of suspected natural causes in OKC occupy protest. He was found in his tent by other protesters. I will provide a link to a local news site regarding it. The man introduced himself simply as The Poet. I didn't have a chance to meet him, but I wish I had.
http://www.news9.com/story/15917745/occupy-okc-protester-found-dead-in-tent
http://occupywallst.org/forum/okc-protester-passes-due-to-suspected-natural-caus/
Indianapolis , Indiana
Forum Post: Occupy Indianapolis numbers dwindle
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-indianapolis-numbers-dwindle/
So basically in the south and Midwest they're being persecuted and crushed
sadly, protests are often not heard about until there is conflict
or
War exists to teach US citizens geography
but more importantly
the occupy movement is rising in many states
They're rising but they're in a hostile area in the south and Midwest and people will try to crush them
Iowa is going to be interesting....
It will be, wish the protesters in Iowa the best, occupying offices during a caucus could cause violence and brutality against them.
http://www.topix.com/issue/occupy-wall-st
Hi otw,
I myself am from the Midwest, Missouri. I think that in some ways you're right. I love the movement but more can be done to encompass and draw in people from the Midwest and South. I do think though that the south will be harder. People have a different lifestyle, big trucks, lots of burnt fuel, party barges, and through that they've been drawn into the 1% system. Not all southerners are that wy but those who are will oppose the movement until they realize that change will help and create more opportunity and that it's in their interest. They need to realize that occupy can give them a voice that is not available right now...without loads of cash.
See that is what I firmly needs to be stressed in these areas. They need to realize that this is a movement to give the rest of us without enough money to buy our own personal politician, a voice. I think that because these two regions do not have many 1 percenters, the people there have thankfully avoided the pitfalls and hardships caused by the 1% but at the same time in a way the 1% have an allies here because they are removed. The 1% have reached out to them by being absent, we should reach out by being present.
I'm from the south and I'm surprised by some of the hostility I have encountered. I worked 5 years in construction before getting laid off, and the people just tell me to "get off my but and get a job." I had a freaking job!
Well that kind of reply is being used by many people who simply do not understand the issues or what is really going on, or even worse being used by the 1% to discredit us.