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Forum Post: NYC skates on thin ice

Posted 4 months ago on July 8, 2014, 12:15 p.m. EST by JackHall (413)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

New York City is a part of the United States and is bound to obey Federal law. Texas Gov. Rick Perry repeated an accusation that undocumented children coming to the U.S. from Latin American countries might be a result of an “ulterior motive” by President Obama.

“I have to believe that when you don’t respond in any way that you are either inept or you have some ulterior motive of which you are functioning from,” Perry said during an interview Sunday, July 6, 2014, on ABC’s “This Week.”

“I don’t believe he particularly cares whether or not the border of the United States is secure,” Perry said when he was asked by host Martha Raddatz if he stood by comments made in a June 17 interview with “Fox and Friends.”

“This president, I will suggest, is totally and absolutely either inept or making some decisions that are not in the best interests of American citizens,” Perry said during that interview with Fox News.

Perry also suggested that non-Mexicans crossing the U.S.-Mexican border are coming from Middle Eastern countries such as Syria.

“We also have record high numbers of other than Mexicans being apprehended at the border,” Perry said. “These are people that are coming from states like Syria that have substantial connections back to terrorist regimes.”

Immigrant Conspiracy Theory

http://news.yahoo.com/rick-perry-stands-by-obama-immigration-conspiracy-theory-221953017.html

143 Comments

143 Comments


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[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 4 months ago

News Flash ! The bottom is gonna fall out of Industrial Capitalism.Is Going To Fall Out.As in,such food and other goods as are being produced will eventually become too expensive for the Average American to afford.As in millions of people will not be able to afford to Drive To Work.As in there won't be anything on the shelves of the local Walmart to be bought even if you had gas in your car to get there.Hopefully the Illegal Aliens will not hold a Grudge and will help us when we have to produce 75% of our own food,and we have no usd's to give them.It doesn't matter how advanced your training is,or how hallowed-by-Tradition is your Alma Mater.You still gotta eat,and producing nourishing,edible food is backbreaking work that takes expertise and ingenuity.Mexicans and people from Central America have this knowledge.You can trade whatever you have that anybody wants for food or produce at least part of it yourself.I am sure a couple of those kids who everybody seems to want to chase away so fast could transform my pathetic efforts at gardening into a moneymaking farm quicktime.I wish they would come here.Equal shares in Prosperity for everybody! The Moveable Feast!

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 4 months ago

most work is done by plants through photo synthesis

the rest is care and distribution

[-] 0 points by Narley (295) 4 months ago

You sound like one those SHTF survivalist guys. So, if you believe what you said are you hoarding food and stockpiling ammo? I’m sure you have your bug-out bag ready and a plan to get to the woods so you can live off the grid. OK, I’m being a little sarcastic, but I can’t blame you. I used to think the same way.

If you recall this is the scenario you describe has been believed by the right wing militia types. They’ve been preaching it for years. There are several newsstand magazines, hundreds of youtube videos, hundreds of web sites and on how to survive the coming collapse of society.

But I finally changed my mind. There is nothing to indicate society will unravel; at least not on a nationwide basis. Maybe in a worst case situation some cities will fall into chaos. But as a whole, in bad times, people will eat what can be grown and raised locally. Probably a lot of rice and beans.

If SHTF is going to happen it will probably be in slow motion, over a period of years or decades. So you still have time to learn to garden.

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

There isn't much farmland in New York City. NYC does have a serious litter problem. New Yorkers turn a blind-eye to it. Litter is every where: in the streets, the parks, the subway.

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

New York is cleaner than it's ever been & "New Yorkers" absolutely do NOT "turn a blind eye" to litter.

Maybe the non New Yorkers (suburban commuters, tourists) turn a blind eye to litter but certainly not most New Yorkers.

Try again

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

Who do you suppose is responsible to NYC being cleaner?

NYC Trash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAHVnkll5M

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

I support higher pay and expanding Sanitation jobs.

Izzat wht your tryin to say?

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

Not exactly. Have you noticed older people diving into dumpsters for cans, and plastic bottles over the last decade? Kids used to hunt for pop bottle deposits to buy candy.

Today adults are doing it as full time jobs. I saw a huge collection of the hugest bags imaginable filled with plastic bottles or glass bottles or cans being collected. Stacked in rows on the street at night.

That accounts for a lot of litter the Dept. of Sanitation didn't collect. A friend collected a few dollars daily from deposits on bottles and cans for food and cigarettes but couldn't find any anymore as easily. In Hispanic neighborhoods it has become a cottage industry.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Not really about elderly or Hispanic. It's about poverty.

Not every elderly person gets Social Security, and for many it ain't enough to live on. Low income workers do not accumulate as much SS as higher income workers do (ironically, by design). hence the need to expand and impose progressive change in taxes/disbursments related to SS.

BTW every day poor people comb the recycle bins for bottle/can deposit money. The recycle bins are the best place for collecting, not litter on the ground.

In the 70's I remember much more litter (no recycling) but still poor people collecting. Just not as organized as today.

Irrelevant in any event, the topicis immigration I believe.

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/top-stories/item/694265-poor-immigrants-get-free-legal-defense-in-nyc-program

There you go. Immigration creating good paying legal jobs.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20140708/SMALLBIZ/307069984/city-municipal-id-cards-could-boost-immigrant-business#

More business!!!! How can we NOT increase immigration?

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

Why don't they go back to wherever they came from and set up Social Security in that country?

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

'Cause they feel life is better here for them.? (And us fortunately)

Can't really speak for them.

We should be thankful we get so many hard workers who love this country so much they risk their lives.

Why do you think they don't go back/come here?

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

They should go back to prevent their country from becoming a failed state. What is the value of their patriotism? Will they migrate their extended families to the USA?

You think immigrants can help Americans?

The US mortgage crisis was a perfect example of what happens to once prosperous American cities when homeowners walk away from their homes for economic reasons such as they can't afford the mortgage payments.

Homeowners and "strategic default"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysrrif6VvyE

How the Mortgage Crisis Forced Thousands of Americans to Live in Their Vans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OFWYb4GWk

Now add in new immigrants competing with new homeless Americans for limited affordable housing. How are new immigrants helping when they arrive homeless to begin a new life and leave their old home in another country?

[-] 3 points by gsw (2733) 4 months ago

Sure immigrants help, google it, or click here

can immigrants help economy

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ib_18.htm#.U8GQcSe9KK0

[-] 2 points by ButtonHGwinnett (44) 4 months ago

Manhattan Institute on Policy Research talks about the benefits of immigration as if there are no hazards:

Increased immigration would expand the American work-force, and encourage more business start-ups. Businesses ranging from Apple Corporation to apple growers would be able to find the workers they need in America.

Current law has inhibited such positive developments.

H-1B temporary visas for new skilled immigrant workers, limited at 85,000 annually, do not meet demand. This quota represents just over one twentieth of one percent of the overall labor force. Acquiring permanent residency (a "green card") is a lengthy and potentially costly process. When immigrant talent, such as the 51 percent of engineering doctorate earners and the 41 percent of physical sciences doctorate earners who are foreign born, are forced to leave the United States, private and taxpayer investment in research loses value.

One reason that Congress does not increase the number of visas is the popular perception that foreign workers, especially those with low skill levels, harm job opportunities of native-born workers. The concern that immigrants drive out native-born immigrants from jobs is predicated on the assumption that large numbers of immigrants are displacing American workers, even though the numbers are low as a percentage of the labor force.

A Rational Immigration Policy

To encourage economic growth, America needs to issue more visas and admit more immigrants legally.

This would raise more revenue and confer a net benefit on the economy.

Arlene Holen of the Technology Policy Institute, using methodology from the Congressional Budget Office, has estimated that in the absence of constraints on green card and H-1B visas over the period 2003–07, an additional 182,000 foreign graduates in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) fields would have remained in the United States. Their earnings and contribution to GDP would have been $14 billion in 2008, and they would have paid $2.7 billion to $3.6 billion in taxes.

Manhattan Institute’s pro-immigration policy doesn’t address the fact that New York City public schools are the most segregated in the nation.

New York City occupies a special place in the American consciousness as the tumultuous seat of our financial markets and the buzzing capital of our culture. Most importantly, it’s the city that exemplifies American pluralism, the “melting pot” that attracts new immigrants looking for work and college graduates drawn from their hometowns by the promise of excitement and diversity. So, when it turns out that the melting pot has the most segregated schools in the country, as a new study reports, it suggests that something has gone very wrong in our approach to education.

New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio has been sounding the alarm on the worrisome inequities hidden beneath the New York’s glowing facade. He was elected last fall after a campaign that focused on the “tale of two cities” and the growing gap between the city’s haves and have-nots, which all too often follow racial lines.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/31/the-real-reasons-new-york-has-the-country-s-most-segregated-schools.html

Simply put, Manhattan Institute is more concerned about increased revenues and the advantages of imported labor educated abroad where taxes are much higher than developing public school curricula in the United States that can supply US employers labor requirements without relying upon immigrants. The real beneficiaries are not Americans, but corporations that benefit from tax breaks of not having to pay for enhanced and enriched education facilities to provide world class vocational, engineering, and medical programs.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

New York has very little politically institutionalized segregation but it has extreme segregation by wealth and neighborhoods. Human nature's propensity to join forces to solve jointly perceived problems is actually responsible for creating segregation because different groups of us do not see eye to eye.

For example, some parents want more homeworks for their children in school to challenge them to reach a higher level but other parents complain about too much homework already for their struggling children, no time for doing chores and going on vacations. Naturally, parents congregate in neighborhoods where they can realize their values best by funding their schools accordingly. Ergo segregation. I do not consider segregation a bad thing for everyone getting much of what they want because there ARE proven ways to produce certain outcomes so segregation is really the result of the freedom of choice. There are life-long and beyond consequences associated with not working hard at homeworks and studying hard in school.

[-] 2 points by ButtonHGwinnett (44) 4 months ago

This is interesting. France and Germany pay higher taxes than New Yorkers and have better public school systems and more paid vacation days. Workers in the USA receive an average of 13 paid vacation days that’s the least. Germans have an average of 35 paid vacation days. In France workers have an average of 37 paid vacation days. They have nearly 3 times the paid vacation time Americans have..

  1. United States of America - 13 days
  2. Belgium - 20 days
  3. Japan - 25 days
  4. Korea - 25 days
  5. Canada - 26 days
  6. United Kingdom - 28 days
  7. Australia - 28 days
  8. Brazil - 34 days
  9. Austria - 35 days (42 for elderly)
  10. Germany - 35 days
  11. France - 37 days
  12. Italy - 42 days

http://www.vpcalendar.net/average-vacation-days-by-country.html.

Public schools in Germany are maintained and paid for by the government: They are free of charge while offering a good education. As a result, there are relatively few private schools in Germany.

While there are public school districts for elementary school children, parents can later choose among a number of schools in Germany for their older kids, as there are no district limitations for secondary education. Schools in Germany are organized by the federal states, and there are several different types of schools to choose from.

http://www.internations.org/germany-expats/guide/15985-family-children-education/schools-in-germany-15992

The French education system is split into three stages: primary school (école), secondary school (collège) and high school (lycée). Primary and secondary education is free, neutral, secular and compulsory between the ages of 6 and 16. However, there are some private schools that are not subject to these obligations and particularities of the French education system.

Nursery school classes accept toddlers at 2 or 3 years of age, starting in September. The children develop their basic faculties, improve their speaking skills and are introduced to the world of reading and writing, numbers and other key areas of learning. From age 6 to 11, the children attend elementary school which is mixed and freein the case of public (state) schools.

The 'collège' accepts all pupils after elementary school without the need to pass an entrance exam. The teaching is structured by subject: French, mathematics, history-geography, 'civics' or civil education, biology and earth sciences, technology, art, music, PE, physics-chemistry. The objectives are fixed by national programmes.

After the 'collège', pupils continue their education in a general and technological 'lycée' or a professional 'lycée'. The latter enables them to acquire a professional diploma in order to pursue further vocational studies or integrate the workplace. Links between the professional and the general and technological study programmes and between the C.A.P. (Certificate of Professional Aptitude) and the professional baccalaureate are facilitated.

http://www.france.fr/en/studying-france/french-education-system-nursery-school-high-school.html

In New York City public schools, a student’s educational outcomes and opportunity to learn are statistically more determined by where he or she lives than their abilities, according to A Rotting Apple: Education Redlining in New York City, released by the Schott Foundation for Public Education.

Primarily because of New York City policies and practices that result in an inequitable distribution of educational resources and intensify the impact of poverty, children who are poor, Black and Hispanic have far less of an opportunity to learn the skills needed to succeed on state and federal assessments. They are also much less likely to have an opportunity to be identified for Gifted and Talented programs, to attend selective high schools or to obtain diplomas qualifying them for college or a good job. High-performing schools, on the other hand, tend to be located in economically advantaged areas.

http://schottfoundation.org/publications-reports/education-redlining

Is it better for New York City students to skip vacations in order to take more courses for a greater challenge? Probably not. The NYC schools need restructuring so resources are evenly distributed.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

The U.S. workers have "worked our brains out" so there is no time to reflect on or understand life or politics. Work makes "Freedom Industries" work, to produce "Freedom Fries."

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

The NYC schools need restructuring but resources being evenly distributed will NOT solve the segregation problem at all. Nor will universal pre-K schooling for kids.

Much of the mystique of "great schools" really came from the high expectations of the parties involved and the subsequent follow-through with any and all called-for resources. A new and powerful computer often does not make a huge difference for a youngster's life trajectory but a good inspring story that is truly taken to heart WILL. A good (even cheap) book can change lives and the high expectations of the parents, teachers, and the students can do wonders. Let the students set high-enough reachable goals and support them in their endeavors.

Most truly worthwhile goals take practice, practice, and more practice to achieve so time is ABSOLUTELY required. Homeworks are one example of spending time but quality can be more important than quantity. Frankly, the U.S. students suffer from stupid homeworks that in some cases have turned into the means of teacher domination and enslavement of the students. They must be left with some time to do apparently nothing productive while actually thinking, day-dreaming, scribbling, dozing, etc. Very few creative people can turn on and off their creativity like a faucet by sitting formally at a table.

For the elite talents, skipping vacations to participate in an interest-driven summer camp can significantly sharpen the talents, especially once they have encountered other elite talents and learnt of how they achieve. There is something called Culture. Culture matters!

[-] 2 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Great! You hit the "nail" right on its "head." For all of corporations' clamoring for more H1B visas (more aptly known as indentured servitude or high-tech slavery), most of them do not want to tackle the glaring failure of the U.S. K-12 educational system to supply the needed educated labor domestically. Instead these corporations lobby for stealing the educated labor force (often created by U.S. colleges and universities) using the product of other countries' superior K-12 educational system as foundation. This amounts to a brain drain on other countries and the zombie attack greatly retards their development into modern prosperity.

The U.S. must work on educating its youngsters better. Banning H1B slavery can goad the corporations to fix the real problem for humanity.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 4 months ago

Increased immigration would expand the American work-force,

when there isn't any work needed therefor people must be starved

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 3 months ago

Major US and international corporations don’t need or won’t be needing immigrants or Americans to supplement their work force. US Corporations have moved factories and jobs abroad, namely to China. The corporations include IBM, Ford, HP, Apple, and many other companies. Outsourcing began decades ago.

In 1980 Shanghai had no skyscrapers. It now has at least 4,000 — more than twice as many as New York.

Shanghai Now

http://vimeo.com/63635193

Shanghai Introduction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KgXBpemWSs

Piers Morgan on Shanghai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wbGFeDR7Gg

China’s population is less than 2% immigrant.

More large construction projects are the foundation for sustainable economic growth. Hurricane Sandy devastation was expected to be followed by huge construction projects. This did not happen. Basically nothing has happened as expected since Hurricane Sandy. The money is being held by government or Hurricane Relief agencies instead of being spent rebuilding homes and businesses in affected areas.

What Large Construction?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/-v3qjobT1lg?rel=0

[-] 1 points by Crackpot (52) 4 months ago

Do immigrants help the economy? Sure. Why not?

Let’s look at the data from 2005.

The Holy See has a population that is entirely immigrant, the highest percentage 100%. This is more than any other country. The United Arab Emirates follows with 83% of the population being immigrant. Qatar is next with 73%. American Samoa, Caribbean Netherlands, Monaco, Falkland Islands, Kuwait and Sint Maarten are in the top 10 nations with the highest percentage of immigrants. All have immigrant percentages above 50%.

The United States has an immigrant percentage of 14.3%. Ireland’s and Sweden’s populations are 15.9% immigrant. Germany’s population is 11.9% immigrant. Denmark’s population is 9.9% immigrant.

Half of the nations have populations that are less than 6% immigrant. China, India, Iran, South Korea, Turkey, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, Ecuador, Mexico, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Honduras, Haiti, and Japan are in this group along with more than 100 other countries.

Most of our trading partners, the most highly developed nations have populations that have a lower percentage of immigrants than we do.

Country with most immigrants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population

It would be difficult to discern the economic impact of immigrants in the United States. How can anyone formulate the impact of immigrants during one year and then make adjustments for the economy as if the immigrants were not there?

If immigrants help the economy, why don’t India, China have higher percentages of immigrants? North Korea has a higher percentage of immigrants than they do.

The United States has nearly 20% of the world immigrants. Far more than any other country. Russia is next with nearly 5% of the world immigrants.

The global picture seen in the 2005 data does not have poor countries with large immigrant populations helping their economy. Our trading partners also do not have large immigrant populations helping their economies.

Whatever government reports or think tank research publications suggest immigrants help the US economy they don't explain why this doesn't work everywhere. The global data does not show large immigrant populations helping the economy except for a very small number of non-industrial countries.

[-] -1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

Economy is a general term for increased GNP. In that context helping grow the GNP isn't helping you or me or reversing home foreclosures so the middle class can have their old lives back.

Helping small businesses by working off the books for less than the minimum wage isn't helping us either.

[-] 1 points by flip (7535) 4 months ago

you are linking immigrants and the housing crisis?? wow are you out there - if you can't find others to blame the crash on i can help. if you can't think of better ways to fix the problem than to send poor people back home - again i can help. do immigrants help the economy when they buy stuff withe the money they make. do they help you when the put money into social security and never get it back? where are your people from?

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 months ago

Abusing immigrants is not helping the economy. It encourages the abusers to ask for more immigrants. While citizens won't gladly accept the abuse usually, immigrants will. Now immigrants are sometimes preferred.

Those Immigrants who pay social security tax but do not expect to receive social security benefits are being abused. It was illegal to employ them in the first place.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 3 months ago

land owners just need someone to work it

[-] 1 points by flip (7535) 3 months ago

you do not make much sense

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

I am not blaming immigrants for the crash. There are homeless who just walked across the border illegally and left their homes voluntarily. Then there are homeless that had homes and jobs they worked as American citizens. They lost their jobs involuntarily and are now homeless. There is not enough affordable housing for everybody. Our countrymen should be at the front of the line.

Try cutting inline in another country as an illegal alien.

[-] 3 points by flip (7535) 4 months ago

certainly housing is not the problem of the homeless but lack of money to afford housing. plenty of affordable housing - lots of it owned by the hedge funds and bankers who caused the crash. not enough houses and apts in this country - where do you read that? if true (and it is not) lets build more - we have plenty of people who want to work no?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

DKAtoday has a point of our U.S. (non-)federal (no-)reserve creating a shortage of housing through trillions of dollars of credit to shore up asset prices. The reserve system loans out credit below 0.25% interest to the national banks so that they can eventually be loaned out for investors to buy up houses and apartments at higher prices than otherwise. The fed targets inflation rate at 2% a year. That means the investors have low interest mortgages and own housing that resist being eaten away by inflation. Many investors can even come out ahead by not renting out the housing. Ergo affordable housing becomes rare although housing is plentiful. It may actually be better to build more empty unoccupied housing than keeping money being burned by inflation, like what China has.

The little people are targeted for extermination by housing costs and consumer prices increasing. There is only one way out as an individual: watch the fed and own assets accordingly by thinking as big people.

Illegal immigrants are even littler than little people and they often get squeezed even more than our countrymen. It is true though that they are often better off than staying in their own countries because their families and relatives often gain greatly through the dollar exchange rate on the money sent home although the illegal immigrants themselves suffer.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

There is plenty of housing - but no-where near enough of it is affordable. This goes to Disparity - Disparity caused fed and growing due to the practices of Greed - greed of the few abusing the masses.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

There are billions of poor people in the world. The U.S. does not have the capacity to absorb all who come so sending poor people back is absolutely fine once their number exceeds our capacity to accommodate. The U.S. can absorb a lot but it has got to know its limit. It is not the fault of the U.S. that there are so many poor people. It is the fault of strifes harbored by the peoples. The U.S. has not had a major war domestically since the Civil War had ended in 1865. Wherever relative peace reigned, the peoples prospered.

It is best if the U.S. can help people make good lives in their own countries by exporting knowledge, ideas, experiences, etc.

[-] 2 points by flip (7535) 4 months ago

what are you smoking - the u.s. export knowledge and ideas - we export war and weapons and poverty. don't you read the papers - look at iraq, haiti, honduras, syria, libya - to say nothing of africa - poor africa where our blood soaked hands have been working for centuries now. do you know about reagan's wars in central america and what he did there? and where are the new immigrants coming from and why?? read and educate yourself

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 3 months ago

What do illegal aliens from Central America have in common with US citizens? Central American states all are prospering Spanish speaking Democratic Republics with the exception of Belize, which is English speaking, formerly British Honduras. So why are they coming to the United States? Any human trafficking, gang violence, humanitarian issues should be either handled by that country or intercepted by Mexico. Does the US have to investigate this before granting refugee status? It seems everything is fine in Central America now.

Costa Rica was sparsely inhabited by indigenous people before it came under Spanish rule in the 16th century. Once a backwater colony, since attaining independence in the 19th century, Costa Rica has become one of the most stable, prosperous, and progressive nations in Latin America. It permanently abolished its army in 1949, becoming the first of a few sovereign nations without a standing army. Costa Rica has consistently been among the top-ranking Latin American countries in the Human Development Index (HDI), placing 62nd in the world as of 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Rica

The Spanish Empire conquered the region in the 16th century. Nicaragua achieved its independence from Spain in 1821. Since its independence, Nicaragua has undergone periods of political unrest, dictatorship, and fiscal crisis—the most notable causes that led to the Nicaraguan Revolution of the 1960s and 1970s. Nicaragua is a representative democratic republic, and has experienced economic growth and political stability in recent years. Since 2007, Daniel Ortega has been the President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua

Honduras was home to several important Mesoamerican cultures, most notably the Maya, prior to being conquered by Spain in the sixteenth century. The Spanish introduced Roman Catholicism and the now predominant Spanish language, along with numerous customs that have blended with the indigenous culture. The country became independent in 1821 and has since been a republic, although it has consistently endured much social strife and political instability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduras

The Republic of El Salvador is the smallest and the most densely populated country in Central America. The country's capital city and largest city is San Salvador. Important cultural and commercial centers for Central America on the whole include Santa Ana and San Miguel. El Salvador borders the Pacific Ocean on the south, and the countries of Guatemala to the west and Honduras to the north and east. Its easternmost region lies on the coast of the Gulf of Fonseca, opposite Nicaragua. As of 2009, El Salvador had a population of approximately 5,744,113 people, composed predominantly of Mestizos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador

The Republic of Guatemala is a country in Central America bordered by Mexico to the north and west, the Pacific Ocean to the southwest, Belize to the northeast, the Caribbean to the east, Honduras to the east and El Salvador to the southeast. It spans an area of 108,890 km2 (42,043 sqmi) and has an estimated population of 15,806,675, making it the most populous state in Central America. A representative democracy, its capital is Nueva Guatemala de la Asunción, also known as Guatemala City.

The former Mayan civilization was a Mesoamerican civilization, which continued throughout the Post-Classic period until the arrival of the Spanish. They had lived in Guatemala, Honduras, Belize, the southern part of Mexico and eastern parts of El Salvador. After independence from Spain in 1821, Guatemala was a part of the Federal Republic of Central America and after its dissolution the country suffered much of the political instability that characterized the region during mid to late 19th century. Early in the 20th century, Guatemala had a mixture of democratic governments as well as a series of dictators, the last of which were frequently assisted by the United Fruit Company and the United States government. From 1960 to 1996, Guatemala underwent a civil war fought between the government and leftist rebels. Following the war, Guatemala has witnessed both economic growth and successful democratic elections. In the most recent election, held in 2011, Otto Pérez Molina of the Patriotic Party won the presidency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala

Belize is a country on the northeastern coast of Central America. It is the only country in the area that has English as its official language; Belizean Creole (Kriol) and Spanish are also commonly spoken. Belize is bordered on the north by Mexico, to the south and west by Guatemala, and to the east by the Caribbean Sea. Its mainland is about 290 km (180 mi) long and 110 km (68 mi) wide.

With 22,800 square kilometres (8,800 sq mi) of land and a population of 338,597 (2013 est.), Belize has the lowest population density in Central America. The country's population growth rate of 1.97% per year (2013) is the second highest in the region and one of the highest in the Western Hemisphere.

Belize's abundance of terrestrial and marine species and its diversity of ecosystems give it a key place in the globally significant Mesoamerican Biological Corridor.

Belize has a diverse society, with many cultures and languages. Originally part of the British Empire, it shares a common colonial history with other Anglophone Caribbean countries. From 1862 to 1973, its name was British Honduras. It became an independent Commonwealth realm in 1981, retaining Queen Elizabeth II as head of state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belize

Is there any reason thousands of children from Central America should be trying enter the USA illegally? Why would the Democratic Party have a position on this?

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

[-] 1 points by grapes (2755) 16 minutes ago

DKAtoday has a point of our U.S. (non-)federal (no-)reserve creating a shortage of housing through trillions of dollars of credit to shore up asset prices. The reserve system loans out credit below 0.25% interest to the national banks so that they can eventually be loaned out for investors to buy up houses and apartments at higher prices than otherwise. The fed targets inflation rate at 2% a year. That means the investors have low interest mortgages and own housing that resist being eaten away by inflation. Many investors can even come out ahead by not renting out the housing. Ergo affordable housing becomes rare.

The little people are targeted for extermination by housing costs and consumer prices increasing. There is only one way out as an individual: watch the fed and own assets accordingly by thinking as big people.

Illegal immigrants are even littler than little people and they often get squeezed even more than our countrymen. It is true though that they are often better off than staying in their own countries because their families and relatives often gain greatly through the dollar exchange rate on the money sent home although the illegal immigrants themselves suffer.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Just think ( consider ) - if - for one thing - if - public monies for economic recovery had not been funneled straight into the banks - what if instead - that money had gone out to those families in need - instead - the money would still have gotten to the banks - but in getting there it would not have put millions of individual economic victims out onto the street - where they now continue to need public support for housing food medical care etc anyway. More good could have been done for the masses of individual victims of economic collapse at a smaller price tag to public relief monies - while also shoring up the financial sector.

To the greatest good.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

And - so - there we are - this country ( and every country ) needs to export peace and health and prosperity - NOT fuel armed conflicts or supply armaments for such.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Good comment flipper. I can't say that I always agree with you - but - that was a good comment =

  • [-] 1 points by flip (5207) 0 minutes ago*

you are linking immigrants and the housing crisis?? wow are you out there - if you can't find others to blame the crash on i can help. if you can't think of better ways to fix the problem than to send poor people back home - again i can help. do immigrants help the economy when they buy stuff withe the money they make. do they help you when the put money into social security and never get it back? where are your people from?

*↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink *

[-] 3 points by flip (7535) 4 months ago

well thanks for that - i think?

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 months ago

Immigrants are less likely to complain than citizens who have more knowledge about their rights and the law. Predatory lenders preferred to make subprime loans to immigrants and minorities.

Bank Mortgage Fraud Foreclosure (United States) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnQEmH5jFO8

Mortgage Fraud Exposed (United States)-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJjmnAlkl6g

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

The U.S. no longer collects nor publishes GNP data. It is replaced by GDP. GNP shows total annual product controlled by U.S. nationals worldwide. GDP shows total annual product within U.S. national borders. Illegal immigrants' economic activities do not increase GNP but they increase GDP and makes the U.S. look more formidable. U.S. nationals are not as dominant internationally as they used to be so publishing GNP instead of GDP would have made the U.S. seem weak. There are also vastly more foreigner-owned businesses in the U.S. than before so going to GDP puffs up the emaciated eagle.

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

Fraud is economic growth. Money laundering is economic growth. Fraudulent home foreclosures boosted the economy. That’s not the kind of economic growth anybody normally would want.

Basically, GNP is the total value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a particular year, plus income earned by its citizens (including income of those located abroad)(no need to minus income of non resident as income includes of only its citizen). GNP measures the value of goods and services that the country's citizens produced regardless of their location. GNP is one measure of the economic condition of a country, under the assumption that a higher GNP leads to a higher quality of living, all other things being equal. \

Gross domestic product (GDP) is the market value of all officially recognized final goods and services produced within a country in a year, or over a given period of time. GDP per capita is often used as an indicator of a country's material standard of living.

GNP is production by the citizens. GDP is market value that includes production by non-citizens.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

The GNP records the dollar amount of goods and services produced in the economy during a period. Bank fees, including overdraft fees, loan generation fees, foreclosure fees, ATM fees contribute to GNP. If fraud is involved, the penalty also contributes to GNP. Whenever money changes hands it contributes to GNP. GNP is not synonymous with wealth.

The GNP calculates economic growth the wrong way.

The growth in GNP is almost all attributable to increased government spending, which represents capital consumption, not progress. As shown by the PPR the economy has barely moved, thanks to the government’s incredible taxation, deficits, welfare, borrowing, subsidies, and controls.

Real growth in the U.S. registered a mere 1.3% last year. On the average, the GNP figure is about 52% higher than real growth. And the more government grows, the higher that percentage.

Always be wary of government statistics. They are usually designed to mislead, and GNP is part of that game.

The Fraud of GNP

http://austrianeconomicsandliberty.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-fraud-of-gnp.html

Inflating the price of commodities doesn’t create wealth either. I think the country was wealthier when candy bars cost 5 cents instead of $1.99.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 4 months ago

the more goods and services are traded the more active the economy

I guess the base assumption is more activity is better

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

[ edit x 5 ] Fraudulent home foreclosures - did - NOT - boost the economy.

Fraud does not grow the economy - it cripples it - note of fact = economic meltdown.

Money laundering - is - NOT - economic growth - except for the immediate individuals doing such = sending to the laundry and the launderers. Money laundering removes money from the overall economy.

edit #1 -> these things you listed do not boost the economy - they just boost individual income - the individuals committing the crimes.

edit #2 -> Your comments tend to exhibit two things - a willful blindness and/or a woeful education.

edit #3 -> Your "apparent" ignorance is appalling.

edit #4 -> And every once in a while - a criminal may actually be charged and made to pay for their crimes = Bernie Madoff. Though this sort of proper justice is very rare.

edit #5 -> I could just ignore your falsities - but that would not be responsible - by slapping down your wrong thinking ( expressed ) - I have the possibility in aiding your edification - but more importantly - I don't let such crap stand unchallenged to then be encountered by someone (s) who truly does not know any better and so have their brain (s) fouled.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3115) from Waterville, NY 4 months ago

There is quite a bit of potential farmland in NYC.In Long Island there is quite a bit also.The most productive gardens I ever had in my life were on the Lower East Side of Manhattan.We gardened vacant lots,but I doubt those gardens are still there.It is possible to grow a lot of food in very confined areas.If you want to,or-have to.We used to keep Chickens on the LES 20 years ago but you probably can't do that anymore.

[-] 1 points by Crackpot (52) 4 months ago

Americans might be offended when someone says the USA is a country of immigrants. What is the point of pretending? Apparently a lot of people prefer to believe this than think about it.

Immigrants represent about 15% of the total US population. On the other hand immigrants represent 83% of the population of United Arab Emirates. I haven’t seen reports of UAE claiming to be a nation of immigrants. The UAE would collapse without immigrants. The US would not.

Country with most immigrants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population

[-] 1 points by Crackpot (52) 4 months ago

I agree. It’s ridiculous how the US Government has neglected border security for the last quarter century. That would be starting in the late 1980s. The illegal mass migration of foreign populations to the USA could conceal threats to public health that the states are not prepared for.

Chagas, a disease caused by a parasite transmitted via the Triatoma bug (aka, the kissing bug), is claiming thousands of lives in Central and South America.

Silent Epidemics in Latin America

http://ww.mybkexperience.com/

From shelter mutts to purebred show dogs, canines across the state of Texas are becoming infected with the Chagas parasite that causes a potentially deadly disease in people, scientists report this week in the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases.

Chagas Can Be Carried by Dogs

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/07/16/331729614/dogs-spread-kissing-bug-disease-in-texas-and-latin-america

A viral and often fatal respiratory disease in the Middle East has taken a turn for the worse and is spreading throughout the region, as well as to parts of Asia, Europe and now the United States. US officials have just confirmed that a man who fell ill after returning from Saudi Arabia in May 2014 has Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS). Earlier, Saudi officials reported 26 more infections of the disease, which first appeared in Saudi Arabia in 2012.

Cases of MERS surged last month by 89 new cases. The kingdom has seen a total of 371 cases and 107 deaths from the disease since it was identified two years ago. There is no cure or vaccine for MERS, which can cause pneumonia and kidney failure, but this week scientists from the US, Hong Kong and China said they discovered antibodies that can prevent the disease from infecting human cells.

Mystery Disease from the Middle East Has Arrived in the USA

http://qz.com/205572/a-disease-thats-three-times-more-deadly-than-sars-is-spreading-across-the-middle-east/

The Outbreaks: Protecting Americans from Infectious Diseases report finds the nation's ability to prevent and control infectious disease outbreaks are hampered by outdated systems and limited resources.

The report, released in 2013 by Trust for America's Health (TFAH) and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF), finds that a majority of states (33) score 5 or lower out of 10 key indicators of policies and capabilities to protect against infectious disease threats. Three states tied for the lowest score, achieving two out of 10 possible indicators - Georgia, Nebraska and New Jersey. New Hampshire had the highest score, with 8 out of 10.

State Ability to Protect the Population

http://healthyamericans.org/reports/outbreaks2013/

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

New York was attacked twice (in 1993 and 2001) because it is the number-one city of the U.S., not because of its being a magnet for immigration. Terrorists needed a place in the world's limelight to send their political messages. The U.S. was attacked instead of an obscure ally country for exactly the same reason.

Note that the U.S. was NOT terror-attacked by the Central American wave of illegal immigrants for a decade or more since 9/11/2001 so let us not smear the innocents. It might have been our extra vigilance on the southern border of the U.S. with Mexico that had prevented any potential attacks.

The U.S. lacks public nearly free-cost healthcare and what it has is extremely fragmented so it is virtually impossible to prevent the spread of contagious diseases through the viaduct of the poorer populace. There have been precedents before for the spread of imported diseases. For example, West Nile is by now present in nearly every state. Again, West Nile came through JFK airport in this jet age. So did the 9/11 attacks originated from airports and the attackers came through our well-developed ally countries such as Canada or Germany.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 months ago

The movie, World War Z, was a cliffhanger with a glimmer of hope at the end.
The Ebola outbreak is the largest in history with deaths blamed on the disease not only in Sierra Leone and Liberia, but also Guinea and Nigeria. The disease has no vaccine and no specific treatment, with a fatality rate of at least 60 percent.

At least two Americans have now been infected with the disease: Dr. Kent Brantly of Texas and Nancy Writebol of North Carolina, who both worked in an ebola clinic in Monrovia, Liberia. That's also where they're being treated, with no plans to evacuate them to more developed countries.

It's awful to think that Americans might be airlifted to better hospitals while locals suffer and die in one of the poorest countries in the world, but it wouldn't be unheard of. A doctor working for the World Health Organization (WHO) who contracted ebola may soon be taken to Hamburg, Germany at the organization’s request.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which has been active in the ebola crisis, says there is no established protocol for evacuating American aid workers. "Whether an American citizen would be transported to another country would be determined on a case by case basis, and it’s something we’re working now on figuring out now," spokesperson Kristen Nordlund.

What should happen if the ebola virus is found here?

A leading doctor who risked his own life to treat dozens of Ebola patients died Tuesday from the disease, officials said, as a major regional airline announced it was suspending flights to the cities hardest hit by an outbreak that has killed more than 670 people.

Top Sierra Leone Doctor Dies from Ebola

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/west-african-airline-suspends-flights-amid-ebola-24755315

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 3 months ago

Ebola is just one of the many contagious diseases that can attack NYC. MERS with death rate of 31% has already reached the U.S. The West African Ebola has death rate of over 60% but it has not yet reached the U.S., I think. I hope that West Central Texas will not become the first Ebola hot zone in the U.S.

Perhaps we will adjust to the new normal of MERS and Ebola eventually just like we have largely accepted West Nile. Other invasive species such as Asian long-horn beetles in maples and Asian carps in the Great Lakes will probably be adjusted to in the same way. Importing Asian immigrants who will devour the carps with gusto and not accustomed to using hardwoods or using maple syrup will lessen the impacts.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by JackPot (87) 4 months ago

Kerry lost to Bush in 2004. His position on illegal immigrations probably didn’t help very much.

Q: What should we do about the 8,000 people cross our borders illegally every day? BUSH: We’re increasing the border security of the US. There ought to be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer, so long as there’s not an American willing to do that job, to join up. I don’t believe we ought to have amnesty. I don’t think we ought to reward illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. If they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too. And here is where my opponent and I differ. In September 2003, he supported amnesty for illegal aliens.

KERRY: We need a guest-worker program. We need is to crack down on illegal hiring. And thirdly, we need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.

BUSH: I don’t believe we ought to have amnesty. I don’t think we ought to reward illegal behavior. There are plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen. And we ought not to crowd these people ahead of them in line. If they want to become a citizen, they can stand in line, too. Kerry supported amnesty for illegal aliens. KERRY: The borders are more leaking today than they were before 9/11. We haven’t done what we need to do to toughen up our borders, and I will. We need a guest-worker program, but if it’s all we have, it’s not going to solve the problem. We need to crack down on illegal hiring. It’s against the law in the US to hire people illegally, and we ought to be enforcing that law properly. We need an earned-legalization program for people who have been here for a long time, stayed out of trouble, got a job, paid their taxes, and their kids are American. We got to start moving them toward full citizenship, out of the shadows.

Kerry on Immigration

http://www.ontheissues.org/international/john_kerry_immigration.htm

Secretary of State Kerry should go to members of OAS with some message about their illegal immigrants coming to the USA. What would be in the best interest of American citizens? Is Kerry waiting for Obama to tell him what to do?

The Secretary of State is a senior official of the federal government of the United States of America heading the U.S. Department of State, principally concerned with foreign affairs and is considered to be the U.S. government's equivalent of a Minister for Foreign Affairs.

The Secretary of State, appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate, is a member of the President's Cabinet, the National Security Council, and is the highest-ranking appointed executive branch official both in the presidential line of succession and the order of precedence.

If an American was found in Costa Rica illegally would the Costa Rican government give him amnesty? Would he or she go to jail? Would he or she go to the US Embassy. Would the Costa Rican government pay to transport him or her to the USA? Would the US Embassy transport him or her to the USA?

Why don’t the embassies of these foreign nationals take them into custody and relieve the USA of the problem of managing their repatriation?

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1777) 4 months ago

https://occupywallst.org/forum/has-barack-obama-deported-more-people-than-any-oth/

once again, the opposing party rallies to hide the bipartisan immigration plan

OH Look politician Perry can say "terrorist"

used fear droner

[-] -1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

If immigrants are coming here illegally because there is a problem with corrupt government in their homeland they should be told the USA is not in Disney Land. Disney Land is in the USA. There is corruption in the USA, too.

Illegal immigration costs $18 billion to manage.

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.

http://cis.org/High-Cost-of-Cheap-Labor

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Your link of a ten year old right wing think tank "study" (to be generous). Is full of questionable, numbers & laced with racist scare tactics.

Recent "studies" from CIS are met with similar derision

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/15/inside-the-center-for-immigration-studies-the-immigration-false-fact-think-tank.html

In addition

"In 2004, a Wall Street Journal editorial repeated the SPLC's allegation that CIS is part of a network of organizations founded by Tanton and also charged that these organizations are "trying to stop immigration to the U.S." It quoted Chris Cannon, at the time a Republican U.S. Representative from Utah, as saying, "Tanton set up groups like CIS and FAIR to take an analytical approach to immigration from a Republican point of view so that they can give cover to Republicans who oppose immigration for other reasons."[

Studies are a dime a dozen each side massage the numbers to their advantage.

Here is another study.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ib_18.htm#.U7wrkMJOVMs

Obviously more young tax paying workers/consumers are always gonna be good for a country. Just gotta ensure wages aren't driven down.

Immigration has always only been good for Americs. And always will be.

Turn away from the fear & anger, join with us in welcoming the new workers/consumers/entrepreneurs we depend on.

We need them, & you.

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

More young tax paying workers/consumers are good. Illegal immigration is the problem. It shows contempt for the law and society of the country they have entered.

So what is so wrong with the country they came from? Is it a republic? They apply for visas, or citizenship before they leave home. Their homeland needs them more. What is going to happen there if everyone with talent migrates to the USA? It will become a failed state, another playground for terrorists.

Failed States Index

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/failedstates2013

What will happen to Americans with talent if the country is flooded with immigrants competing for the limited number of positions? The wages drop. Cheap labor wins every time.

New Evidence on the Foreclosure Crisis

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB124657539489189043

How much does it cost to move to and become established in another country?

Do immigrants really fit in if they don't speak English before they arrive and don’t learn to speak, read and write English after they are here? National security is diminished when large populations in the USA are not fluent in English.

More immigrants provide a growing market for predatory lending.

Predatory Lending

http://www.naca.net/issues/predatory-lending

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Low wages, predatory lender, failed states are results of greedy corps, greedy criminal banksters, & the wests policies/actions related to resource wars respectively.

None are created by immigration. ALL must be corrected through voting & protest (which more new citizens voting/protesting will facilitate!)

All costs related to 'moving' are covered by the massive increase in tax revenue, & consumer activity from our new citizens.

ALL immigrants have learned English fluently/exclusively within 1 or 2 generations.

We are a nation of immigrants! Immigrants (forced or otherwise) have built this country!

This country is stronger and more influential when our actions represent a diverse broad population.

Anything else? Did I leave something out?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

The immigrants need to learn the importance of staying in lines and not cutting into lines. Another is the importance of punctuality for the smooth functioning of a modern society. English is our lanuage here so the stupid blabs of gibberish preceding "Press 1 for English" need to go. If the N.S.A. knows what brand and how old my underwears are, they could at least know which phones spew English.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

The "lines" you refer to are arbitrary, and racist in nature. They should be disregarded without hesitation.

Language requires no effort/concern on the part of us English speaking Americans. Everyone submits to English within one or 2 generations.

NSA should not know our underwear nor our phone language. Better for us to disband NSA rather than expand it

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

Do New Yorkers, and Americans in general realize how precarious our national integrity is? It has been noted that Latinos, foreign nationals, hence almost everybody, can enter Mexico illegally, walk the entire length of Mexico from the Federal State of Chiapas in the southern most tip of Mexico that borders on Guatemala to the states of Sonora, Chihuahua, that border the United States then enter the United States illegally.

There is a new domino effect and Americans do not have the statesmanship or political consensus for this current development.

What is a failed state?

A failed state is a state perceived as having failed at some of the basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government. There is no general consensus on the definition of a failed state. The definition of a failed state according to the Fund for Peace is often used to characterize a state with the following characteristics: Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein; Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions; Inability to provide public services; Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community;

Common characteristics of a failing state include a central government so weak or ineffective that it has little practical control over much of its territory; non-provision of public services; widespread corruption and criminality; refugees and involuntary movement of populations; and sharp economic decline.

The level of government control required to avoid being considered a failed state varies considerably amongst authorities. Furthermore, the declaration that a state has "failed" is generally controversial and, when made authoritatively, may carry significant geopolitical consequences.

The problem was foreseen more than fifty years ago. If New Yorkers want the government to stay out of their bedrooms, then the same should apply to newspaper writers’ invasion into the private life of a US President.

1961 Kennedy – Inauguration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLmiOEk59n8

The Democrats had set the cornerstones for a Great Society by 1968. The politics became a contest between Democratic Party extending Franklin Roosevelt, and Harry Truman themes to a new Republican Party that had severed connections to Abraham Lincoln and Dwight Eisenhower.

1969 Nixon Inaugural

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFZlFXnrNs

The peril is in the crisis that thousands of aliens entering the country without being briefed on what is expected of them and the following chaos, and dilution of national integrity.

[-] -2 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

I'm saying immigration is good for America, the country quotas should be ignored until corrected.

We should encourage as much immigration as possible.

Failed states (& whatever opinion/definition applied), historical facts/leaders (immigrants both no?), Doesn't change my opinion that immigration is good ad must be increased dramatically.

We disagree boss, I think immigration benefits us, You think it hurts?

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

It depends where they end up. Can they all live in New York City?Ask New Yorkers who have been living here more than 30 years.

The researchers studied more than 25,000 convictions of public officials for violation of federal corruption laws between 1976 and 2008 as well as patterns in state spending to develop a corruption index that estimates the most and least corrupt states in the union. Based on this method, the most corrupt states are:

  1. Mississippi
  2. Louisiana
  3. Tennessee
  4. Illinois
  5. Pennsylvania
  6. Alabama
  7. Alaska
  8. South Dakota
  9. Kentucky
  10. Florida

http://fortune.com/2014/06/10/most-corrupt-states-in-america/?xid=ob_rss

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

It depends where they end up.

OK - I can see that - lets have them all placed in the areas ( immediate areas ) of where the greatest wealth is and has been collected - this way they are right close to the essential resources for their personal growth and absorption into the melting pot. Being under the nose ( right under ) of the greatest wealth will keep them in plain sight and so will insure that they are not forgotten about - but are instead constantly tended as to their needs to be integrated successfully healthily and prosperously into our great nation. HEH - I love that idea so much - that I feel all of this Nations poor should be treated the same = placed at the locations of where the greatest wealth has been accumulated so that they can get proper housing and medical care and access to food clothing education etc etc etc attention and proper care direct from the nations areas of massive wealth. I gotta wonder what the Hampton s and such like places will look like as this winning program moved forward.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

They can't all live in New York City. They are trying. There is a crowd everywhere you look until late at night. Lines to the restrooms are obscene.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

They can't all live in New York City

BTW - they don't all live in New York City - nope - those that you see (?) are just a fraction of those who are being ignored and shoved aside - just a fraction - and most are not recent arrivals to the USA or New York City either.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

The basic problem being = GREED and the actions of the GREEDY. Because TPTB are allowed to - rather than them sanely addressing good affordable housing for all or good affordable education for all or good affordable health care for all or a decent living wage for all - INSTEAD these things are pushed aside ( not invested in ) and they put homeless people on buses and send em somewhere else to be dealt with properly or not for the cycle to continue. Just a fractional charge placed on wall street's world wide hyper trading transactions would pay for what is needed.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Yes, let the feds declare the Hamptons as no-deportation zone and whoever squats in vacant housing there for some to-be-determined years gets onto the path for citizenship. That increases the supply of affordable housing for sure.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Consider - all of the mansions all across the country - that are not filled to capacity - all of those seldom used bathrooms and bedrooms and and and - another housing glut of a different kind?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

There is a statue of limitation law that says if a property such as a mansion is occupied for a number of years, the occupiers become the owners. For special affordable housing shortage zones such as the Hamptons, the statue of limitation can be shortened greatly to create affordable housing.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

@DKAtoday; Our Supreme Court seemed to have found religion recently. Let the squatters start a religion of squatting purifying souls. File the papers for non-profit incorporation to establish starting dates of habitation. Occupy the mansions until the cases wind up in the Supreme Court and claim Freedom of Religion First Amendment Rights. If the cases wind up slowly enough, claim ownership of the mansions by the statute of limitation law.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Sure - all one has to do is put in notice of squatting - and then patiently wait for the qualifying time for ownership to be reached - no wait - that won't work - once notice of habitation has been given - WELL - the swat teams will be sent out to peacefully evict the squatters.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

[ edit ] Query to self - as an inCorp(se)oRATed Being - would I qualify to receive fossil fuel subsidies ? Energy recompense of any sort? That being of course recompense far beyond my need/use in guaranteeing multi-billion dollar profits - um - per quarter.

edit -> Further - is it possible that I would develop other super powers? Interesting.............

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

[-] 1 points by grapes (2754) 1 minute ago

@DKAtoday; Our Supreme Court seemed to have found religion recently. Let the squatters start a religion of squatting purifying souls. File the papers for non-profit incorporation to establish starting dates of habitation. Occupy the mansions until the cases wind up in the Supreme Court and claims Freedom of Religion First Amendment Rights.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[ edit ] You might have something there - We - I think - we all "each" need to inCorp(se)oRATe ourselves - and then opt out of any government oversight supervision laws taxes - control of any sort ( state & federal ) on the grounds that it is ALL against our corp(se)oRATe religious rights/beliefs.

BTW - isn't that properly known as the Stupreme Corp(se) ?

edit -> Heh - consider - as an inCorp(se)oRATed Being - the harshest penalty meet-ed out by the Judicial system - would be an insignificant fine - keeping with corp(se)oRATe fining standards any fine would be an infinitesimally small fraction of a total percentage of PROFITS.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Like everything else, immigration benefits us as well as hurts us depending on the specific areas of economy impacted, the high or low level, and whether we are employers seeking cheap labor or potential employees seeking a job or higher wages.

The U.S. is a failed state on the immigration front so let us ALL recognize it and deal with it accordingly, okay? We can create no-deportation zones, no-H1B zones, English-only zones, etc.

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Too much bureaucracy, and segregation was clearly proven unequal and discriminatory.

No, we'll have to find the areas with the least immigrants now, & deposit some there.

I mean, in order to equally spread the goodness that immigrants bring we'll have to resettle them to the loving, economically in need regions (rural South mainly).

okay?

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Good luck with that. If we could not prevent them from entering the U.S. or staying in the U.S. illegally, there is NO hard-and-fast way to direct them where they concentrate. The original reason that they came or stayed in the U.S. for could still be attractive to them. Hence, no-deportaion zones with a path to citizenship can congregate them. Your idea of settling them in the rural South is just too obviously politically motivated.

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Not politically motivated, only my answer to your idea to segregate immigrants in cities.

I do not support directing immigrants anywhere. I support more immigrants, & removing the arbitrary, racist 'country quotas'.

You proposed directing them to cities, I answered in kind.

So maybe we can agree no directing/segregation, better disease control, and eliminate arbitrary, racist 'country quotas'.

good?

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 months ago

The first thing to know about Chikungunya is there is no cure.

The second thing is it’s a viral disease transmitted to humans by infected mosquitoes, which has spread like wildfire from Africa and Asia to the Caribbean and South America.

The third is that while the disease is rarely fatal, victims can suffer excruciating muscle pain, along with headache, nausea and rashes. Patients usually recover in a week, but symptoms can go on for months.

The fourth is it has hit Long Island, and U.S. Sen. Charles E. Schumer has raised the alarm.

At least three Long Islanders have contracted travel-related cases of Chikungunya, bringing the number to 30 across New York State. Sen. Schumer wants the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to issue an immediate health alert for medical professionals to help contain the outbreak.

He also called on the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to declare a “public emergency” in the Caribbean and other countries, so the U.S. can deploy protocols similar to those used in 2009 during the Mexican swine flu outbreak. These include port-of-entry and food inspections.

“Chikungunya has now officially reached Long Island, and the feds must act before this debilitating virus spreads further and takes hold in New York,” Sen. Schumer said Thursday.

Chikungunya is in Long Island

http://brooklyneagle.com/articles/chikungunya-hits-long-island-%E2%80%93-and-schumer-wants-action-stop-spread-2014-07-24-192000

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

So-called segregation in welcoming cities is really a freedom to choose because illegal immigrants will be protected by the no-deportation zones there. I see these cities as "wildlife sanctuaries." They can move out of the zones and face the opposing football team if they so choose. I think they are better off staying away from southern hospitality - fewer skirmishes for all.

@99nproud; the scope of no-deportation zones is within the power of executive order so let us leave it to the Executive in charge, duly elected by the Will of the People. If push comes to shove, the U.S. has the process in place to deal with treason and high crimes.

[-] -2 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

And I suggest the whole nation be designated the same.

Imprison violent criminal immigrants, increase hard working, tax paying, America loving, immigrants.

Let 'em go where they like.

Best thing for ALL.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

These lines are what I believe that racial hatred/genocides can grow out of. There were many empires and colonial states where peoples of disparate heritages were forced to live together. These day-to-day irritations are what led to wars of genocides eventually. I give voice to the feelings people have about immigrants to foster vigorous discussions. Hopefully, some viable solutions can come from the discussions.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Viable solution: Let 'em in. Let 'em contribute to our collective good Challenge hatred with love, & denounce all hints of genocidal war.

Glad to help

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

We have already let many many in, legal or illegal. Just on the legal side alone, the U.S. has taken more year after year than the rest of the world combined. We are now number three in population behind the very ancient countries of China and India which had grown over millennia. The U.S. is just a few centuries old at most.

It takes time for new immigrants to be integrated into mainstream society lest heartburns and indigestion occur. Deliberate regulation is needed.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

I would support 'deliberate regulation' to increase the number of immigrants since immigration has only ever benefitted Americas economy & culture.

& we get so many because we facilitate 'integration' so well. Nobody does it better, and that is why we are better off. Our rapid growth & large size is part of our strength and a direct result of immigration!!!

YEAH!! WHOOOP!!!

immigrants are good!! Send us more! More I tell you!!! The more the better.

None more loyal, nor more in love with America

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Integration of new immigrants economically can take place very quickly as the large population of immigrants attests. There is NO U.S. restriction on almost anyone (people in jails do not have this right) to leave the U.S. If people do not leave, they must be finding livelihood somehow.

Cultural integration of immigrants and their descendants take generations. It is a very slow process unless there is a generational discontinuity. Sometimes once ghettos have formed, the whole process grinds to a halt completely for the older immigrants left behind in the ghettos. We need to avoid the formation of ghettos that allow the younger generation to ignore the mainstream society. Only young immigrants (20 years old or younger) really fully integrate.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

The integration of immigrants in America is better than anywhere else. Not an issue for me. Doesn't justify stopping immigration.

We MUST increase immigration/population.

Best for ALL involved.

(BTW I'm against ghettos & all difficulties immigrants may face)

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

I agree that we need to increase immigration for those communities that welcome illegal immigrants with full community rights. These currently include Los Angeles, San Francisco, New Haven, and New York. Perhaps the U.S. can bestow citizenship on those illegal immigrants who have proven their worth as community citizens for a number of years, without criminal records, English proficiency, pledge of allegiance to the U.S. etc.

@Crackpot; New York was attacked twice (in 1993 and 2001) because it is the number-one city of the U.S., not because of its being a magnet for immigration. Terrorists needed a place in the world's limelight to send their political messages. The U.S. was attacked instead of an obscure ally country for exactly the same reason.

@99nproud; Welcoming big cities such as New York and Los Angeles are the easiest places for immigrants to merge in seamlessly without being deported. Immigrants are NOT stupid enough to go to the sparsely populated areas of the Deep South or the West. If border patrol could not interdict them, who else can ask them to get some Christian love from the South and the West? After all, we are all Americans, aren't we? As such, hypocrisy is our forte so Christian love is really just a creative way of expressing bigotry, right? We also have the welcome-immigrant-but-not-in-my-backyard attitude, don't we?

@JackHall; I emphasize "controlled growth." I believe in borderless blocs for regions sharing common values, beliefs, interests, and developmental stages. I also believe in STRONG walls for all others. I am NOT schizophrenic nor xenophobic. Growth of human population can be both a blessing and a curse. One thing is certain though - the higher the population the more the possibility for a blessing or a curse.

As I have known New York City for several decades, I am satisfied with what it has been. I saw rather incongruous things happen due to new immigrants replenishing old immigrant neighborhoods, such as the Star of David etched in stone in a Latini social club or a Buddha statue inside of a church. I do not know how the youngsters of the old immigrant neighborhoods feel about the incongruity but I think of it as a sign of the city's vitality, tolerance, and cosmopolitan nature. Let us face it - the whites have not produced enough babies and many of their youngsters have moved away into mainstream society. New York would have had similar problems as Detroit if it were not for the new immigrants. It is not so white anymore but what has skin color got to do with the IDEA of America anyway? It is the values, the ideals, and the commitments that really define an "American," one who holds fast onto what this continent's newness and remoteness impart.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

The theory that more immigrants need to come to the USA helps the economy as proposed by Manhattan Institute may need revision.

In 2008, Ecuador’s National Assembly approved a new constitution that recognizes unfettered mobility across borders as a basic human right, advocating “the principle of universal citizenship, the free movement of all inhabitants of the planet, and the progressive extinction of the status of alien or foreigner as an element to transform the unequal relations between countries, especially those between North and South."

Who knew? Can it get any worse than old Ecuador?

A World Without Borders

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/how-not-to-design-a-world-without-borders/374563/

Are New Yorkers satisfied with New York City? Imagine cities that have populations that are more than 2 or 3 or 4 times larger.

Cairo Egypt 19.6 mllion

Sao Paulo Brazil 19.8 million

Shang Hai China 20.8 million

Mexico City Mexico 21.2 million

Manila Philippines 21.9 million

Delhi India 22.2 million

Seoul Korea 25.2 million

Jakarta Indonesia 28 million

Chongqing China 28.8million

Tokyo Japan 35.1 million

These countries have populations with less than 2% immigrants.

Cosmopolis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFKQtMNqJuc&list=PLf5qT0tQoem1w-aXKm51wBvJ-tSBnX6yI

[-] 0 points by Crackpot (52) 4 months ago

Clueless. What does the WTC being attacked twice in 1 decade mean? Would this have happened in New York City if it was not a magnet for immigration?

The decline of the Roman Empire is a historical theme that was introduced by historian Edward Gibbon, in his widely read 1776 work The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. There is ongoing historiographical debate about what actually happened to the Roman Empire in the 4th–5th centuries. Many theories of causality have been explored and most concern the disintegration of political, economic, military, and other social institutions, in tandem with barbarian invasions and usurpers from within the empire. Gibbon was not the first to speculate on why and when the Empire collapsed.

The invading army reached the outskirts of Rome, which had been left totally undefended. In 410 C.E., the Visigoths, led by Alaric, breached the walls of Rome and sacked the capital of the Roman Empire.

The Visigoths looted, burned, and pillaged their way through the city, leaving a wake of destruction wherever they went. The plundering continued for three days. For the first time in nearly a millennium, the city of Rome was in the hands of someone other than the Romans. This was the first time that the city of Rome was sacked, but by no means the last.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Settlement of immigrants MUST occur in the must sparsely populated regions 1st. It's only logical.

In addition, so as to make immigrants transition as easy as possible we should concentrate settlement exclusively on those regions considered most loving, generous, supportive of the poor.

I believe the bible belt (nothing better than southern Christian love) is the best place for our new citizen/immigrants. But the sparsely populated bible belt. Y'know the rural church goin, bible thumpin', deep south.

Doesn't that make sense?

Immigrants would be welcome with Christian love there right?

[-] -1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

OK., Invite every immigrant you meet to stay your place.

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

North America was founded as Dutch, French and English colonies. The United States began as an English colony. Immigrants did not come here until centuries later.

Not ALL immigrants have learned English. Take a stroll around Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, Union City. One or two generations is 15 to 50 years that is a really long time considering people here are talking to them in English on day 1.

[-] 0 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

What is a failed state?

Perennial stalwarts Chad, Afghanistan, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo have returned, while Somalia has the dubious honor of being the world’s No. 1 failed state for the sixth straight year.

Does anyone believe greedy corporations can operate in failed states like Congo, Chad, Afghanistan or Somalia?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Cosi’ Fan’ Tutti: The Malpractices of the Nairobi ... www.hiiraan.com/op/2006/july/...Nairobi-based-NGO-in-Somalia-03.aspx

Cosi’ Fan’ Tutti: The Malpractices of the Nairobi Based Non-for-Profit Corporations Operating in Somalia. By Ahmed Shiikh

[-] -2 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Why?

[-] -1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

How can immigrants tell a good political candidate from a bad one? Their position on immigration reform? Note Mike Bloomberg was elected 3 times as Mayor of New York over more qualified Democrats.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Would you support a political candidate who wants to make New York an H1B-free city? How about enforcing an English-only-sign zone for the lowest Manhattan such as south of Chambers and Worth Street? What are your arguments for or against these new impositions?

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

But was not elected by illegal immigrants - nope - he was elected by legal poorly educated Citizens. But toxic money has been losing some election races recently - so - maybe there is hope that the population at large - IS - starting to get educated.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

I disagree with the New York electorate being poorly educated citizens. Bloomberg was rather green on fossil fuels, cigarette smoking, and healthcare policies. People who like burning dirty heating oil or puffing up in public parks or beaches will feel like criminals in New York City.

Bloomberg had some strong-armed socialist tendencies - he put up his own money to fight coal and guns. He even tried to ban the sale of oversized sugary drinks in New York that was later overturned (as I had expected). He was a former smoker so his stance against smoking might have grown out of his feeling about having been cheated by the tobacco companies.

[-] 1 points by JohnNash (15) 3 months ago

Anyone can be psychologically conditioned to think wealth and intellect have a positive correlation.

Wealth and Intellect

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=3178567

Billionaires probably waste more money than anyone. Bloomberg put up his own money to fight coal and guns. He even tried to ban the sale of oversized sugary drinks in New York that was later overturned.

Forbes reports that Michael Bloomberg had a six billion dollar income in one year. In one hour he made more money than the President of the United States makes in a year. In 20 minutes he made more money than the average worker does in a lifetime. Why isn't Bloomberg creating 3 high paying jobs an hour?

Forbes Profile Michael Bloomberg

http://www.forbes.com/profile/michael-bloomberg/

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by JackPot (87) 4 months ago

Fourteenth Amendment Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

In a crowded immigration court, seven minutes to decide a family’s future. His courtroom rarely came to order, and by now the judge had decided it was a waste of time to try. Interpreters explained legalese in three languages. Adults squeezed into crowded seats while children crouched in the center aisle. A court official stood near the doorway and worried about the building’s fire code. “Por favor,” he said in halting Spanish, as another family tried to enter. “No mas.”

Judge Lawrence Burman sat quietly in front of the chaos, adjusting his reading glasses and sifting through a stack of files on his bench. He had 26 cases listed on his morning docket in Arlington Immigration Court — 26 decisions to make before lunchtime about the complicated future of undocumented immigrants in the United States.

“The rocket docket” is what lawyers had begun calling this schedule, warning clients that their future could be decided in the time it took to walk to the restroom and back.

“Next,” Burman announced. “Let’s go. Busy day.”

At a time when Congress and President Obama have signaled an increased willingness to reform the immigration system, they insist on urgency by repeating a series of skyrocketing numbers: 11.7 million undocumented immigrants in the United States, at least 50,000 more trying to enter every month, 21,000 agents patrolling the borders, $18 billion spent each year on enforcement and about 1,000 people deported each day.

Immigration Courts Overwhelmed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-a-crowded-immigration-court-seven-minutes-to-decide-a-familys-future/2014/02/02/518c3e3e-8798-11e3-a5bd-844629433ba3_story.html

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 is a United States federal law that outlines the permissions and restrictions regarding immigration to the US. Also known as the McCarren-Walter Act, after its two main sponsors, the Immigration and Nationality Act, or INA, remains in effect in the 21st century, though several provisions have been modified and many amendments added to the original text. Famously controversial for many reasons, the INA was vetoed by President Harry Truman, and only passed through an overrule vote in the legislature.

The origins of the Immigration and Nationality Act can be traced to several related issues in the early 1950s. Though US immigration law had existed since shortly after the American Revolution, many historians attribute the initial impulse for a new immigration statute to a desire for a more comprehensive and focused doctrine following the shifting international relationships created by World War II. In addition, at the dawn of the Cold War, much of US policy began to reflect the growing anti-Communist sentiment in the nation. Additionally, lasting enmity with some Asian countries, particularly Japan, led to a push to revise the visa system on a preferential basis.

Senators McCarran and Walter, who would both go on to play significant roles in the government-run anti-Communist investigations of the 1950s, presented the Immigration and Nationality Act as a means of improving national security, as well as an attempt to formally codify the disparate laws guiding immigration. One of the major changes to existing law presented in the bill was a revision of quota systems that based allowed number of immigrants on nationality rather than race. In what some call “one step forward, one step back,” the new bill eased immigration standards for some racially-excluded immigrants, while severely limiting quotas of allowed visas for people of certain nationalities. Visas were also given based on preferential rank, which used factors like national origin, skilled labor, and the existence of relatives with US citizenship, to determine legal status. After more than a decade of fiery argument, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 revised the quota system to allow a more even distribution of visas between nations.

The other major controversial notion in the bill was the exclusion of immigrants based on health, criminal history, and, most significantly, ideology. This provision was used for decades to exclude immigrants presumed to have Communist tendencies, often without any sort of proof. In addition, immigrants found to be practicing or associating with Socialist or Communist groups were subject to deportation. Though many of the ideological grounds for deportation were repealed in the 1990s, the door on ideological exclusion was re-opened following the 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States.

Immigration and Nationality Act

http://www.uscis.gov/laws/immigration-and-nationality-act

Ideology matters. Culture matters. How can American ideology and culture develop when they are overwhelmed and overburdened by immigrants? Is passing new legislation better than enforcing existing legislation? Writing legislation is easy compared to enforcing it. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Remember Glass-Steagall?

The concept of reciprocity should be considered. What country would allow U.S. citizens to enter illegally, find jobs, receive medical care, public education, and generally reciprocate the benefits the United States bestows on illegal immigrants from that country? The illegal immigrants receiving benefits in the United States are not receiving equal protection under the law. They are receiving more protection under the law, if their home country is not in a reciprocating agreement with the United States. Isn’t that unconstitutional?

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

ILLEGAL immigrants are NOT citizens of the U.S. and are NOT entitled to the rights, privileges, and immunities granted under the Fourteenth Amendment. Illegal immigrants are LEGALLY CRIMINALS because they broke U.S. immigration laws.

Of course, the U.S. needs to assume some responsibility for not enforcing sanctions against the employers of illegal immigrants for many decades so the U.S. tries to deal with the mess as best as it can. Perhaps the intercepted juvenile illegal immigrants should be given the option of being repatriated rather than being detained if they so choose provided that they agree not to reenter the U.S. illegally. Upon subsequent illegal reentries, they shall be sentenced to prison terms and upon completion of such terms be reviewed for repatriation.

The U.S. needs to know its legal basis for dealing with the juvenile tidal wave of illegal immigrants and amend any and all legislations contributing to the tidal wave.

[-] -1 points by DouglasAdams (208) 4 months ago

If termites infested your house, or bedbugs moved into your condo or hornets built a nest in your attic would you expect Green Peace protesters or ASPCA to camp out on your lawn, in your driveway or across the street?

A busload of illegal immigrants is expected to show up in Murrieta, California in spite of a furious group of residents who claim their town is no place for the migrants.

On Sunday, July 6, 2014, Breitbart Texas broke the news that federal agents accompanying the bus will have riot gear and shields, in order to push back the crowd. Despite this, the protesters have no intentions of backing down--rather, the group is preparing for a showdown that one resident told Breitbart Texas "might get ugly."

Sources on the ground in Murrieta told Breitbart Texas that many protesters have already gathered in the town this morning in anticipation of the busload. Law enforcement is there, too.

"There are at least 60 officers here," John Henry, a Murrieta resident since 1991, told Breitbart Texas. "Most of them are local law enforcement like the Murrieta Police and others from the Riverside Country Sheriff's Office. But I have seen at least 10 or 15 federal agents here as well."

He added, "There was also a fire truck pulling a 20 foot trailer as well. I would assume it is for medical purposes."

Henry said that, according to "rumors," planes carrying illegal immigrants are expected to land at 11 a.m. PST. He mentioned that it takes about an hour to drive from the airport to the protest grounds in Murrieta.

In anticipation of riot gear being used against them, the protesters are ready to "be detained or arrested," according to a widely-circulated flier obtained by Breitbart Texas. The flier told protesters to be prepared with: "several pairs of vinyl gloves [which] protect against blood and pepper spray"; "heavy clothing to deflect rubber bullets"; and a "legal aid number written in permanent marker on both arms."

Immigration and Nationality Act

http://www.uscis.gov/laws/immigration-and-nationality-act

Tens of thousands of immigrants, Latinos and other supporters of an overhaul of the immigration system turned out on Wednesday, May 2, 2013, for marches, rallies and prayer vigils, hoping to show Congress that momentum is building for a path to citizenship for 11 million immigrants in the country illegally.

Illegal Immigrant Support

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/02/us/across-the-country-supporters-rally-for-immigration-overhaul.html?_r=0

[-] 2 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

And why exactly would the Murrieta protesters object to the arrest and processing (returned home if required) of immigrants as the law states.?

Isn't that what we expect the govt to do?

And doesn't this massive round up of people at the border indicate that we have secured the border pretty well?

Some people are never happy.

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (208) 3 months ago

The voices of immigrant rights activists, and leadership in the Senate want immigration reform favorable to illegal immigrants are all the media has trumpeted the loudest. The protesters have to go to extreme measures to grab the spotlight and microphone and air their concerns about illegal immigrants in their community.

Washington DC is far away from the scene of the crime. The President doesn’t want to be anywhere near the illegal immigration conflict. President Obama has deported more illegal aliens than any other President ever.

Since taking the oath of office, Obama has deported immigrants at a faster rate than any other president in US history, nearly a record 2 million people. On a typical day, there are over 30,000 immigrants imprisoned in the world’s largest immigration detention system. Most deportees never see an attorney or have a hearing before a judge before they are expelled from the country. Deportation carries a high price for families and communities across America: one-quarter of all deportees are separated from their US citizen children and countless others from spouses and other family members.

http://www.thenation.com/article/179099/why-has-president-obama-deported-more-immigrants-any-president-us-history

These are legal deportations. It seems that the immigrants rights advocates immigration law is a joke. For illegal immigrants to embed themselves in the community, start families, bring relatives here shows contempt for thelaws of this country and the rights of every US citizen. Now It has become a political hot potato for next election.

Murrieta is where demonstrators July 1 blocked three buses full of Central American migrant children and their parents or guardians from entering the Border Patrol station for processing. The migrants, who had illegally crossed the border into Texas, instead were sent to a Border Patrol station south of San Diego.

The protest garnered international attention, with immigrant-rights groups denouncing the protesters who screamed at the busloads of kids as heartless, and anti-illegal-immigration activists touting the demonstration as a populist resistance to what they view as the Obama administration’s lax immigration policies.

Other protests were scheduled throughout California, including at another site in Murrieta, the Murrieta Hot Springs Road bridge over Interstate 215. There also were protests scheduled in front of the Mexican consulate in San Bernardino, along with two other locations in the city, and in Hesperia and near Palm Desert.

The protests were being coordinated by Americans for Legal Immigration PAC.

The 11 million illegal aliens, including 500,000 in NYC, show that the borders are not secure. There are at least ten times more illegal aliens in NYC than NYPD. Nobody seems to be concerned about that.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (4141) 3 months ago

Don't you just love how the media portrays this using words that are supposed to hit negative nerve centres?

Who came up with the bogey-man term "Illegal Aliens", any way? Media, no doubt.

Illegal = bad

Aliens = fear

Ooooooooo...soooo scary.

Ay Dios mio!

[-] -1 points by DouglasAdams (208) 3 months ago

You laugh. Giuliani and Bloomberg could have help start legal deportations over ten years ago. It has been growing into an unmanageable crisis. The immigration laws weren't enforced. NYC estimates there are 500,000 undocumented immigrants there. That is more than ten times the number of NYPD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmDXVbte5Oc

[-] -2 points by shortNfatNbaldBUTsexy (-113) 3 months ago

Illegal simply because they are illegal. Alien comes from alius meaning other. What would you call them?

[-] 2 points by Renneye (4141) 3 months ago

Terms like "Illegal Aliens" are coined to get the hackles up of everyday citizens, instilling fear and worry...for jobs, resources, etc.

It virtually guarantees a knee-jerk bellicose response that breeds divisiveness and hatred.

I'm sure if the gov sat down with good intentions, for a change, they could come up with a more compassionate, humanitarian term.

[-] -1 points by shortNfatNbaldBUTsexy (-113) 3 months ago

Probably. For sure. I agree. What would you call them? /i think Illegal Immigrants was the previous term. Better I think. In French we call them sans papiers which means without papers.

[-] -1 points by shortNfatNbaldBUTsexy (-113) 3 months ago

Illegal aliens are just people. They don't cause much problem. We have real fish to fry like finding ways to stop Global Warming, and other world issues.

[-] 0 points by DouglasAdams (208) 3 months ago

It eventually comes down to politics and economics. Chile, Argentina and Cuba have a better Human Development Indices than any Central American country. Does it make more sense to migrate to a country with a common language and heritage? If US Citizens wanted to migrate to China, they should learn to speak a popular Chinese dialect and have the right visa.

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

It is a massive roundup alright but the influx dwarfs the roundup greatly. The borders are NOT secured well. It is a little bit like someone boasting of pumping out Olympic-sized swimming pools of seawater after a tsunami has come by.

It is bad but we should count ourselves very lucky because the illegal immigrants so far by and large are NOT jihadists. The porous border with Mexico has not killed us en masse yet in contrast with other borders.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Yeah. Don't be afraid.

You live in the 'home of the brave' man. We ain't so weak & scared we can't allow for immigration.

'Jihadist' threat does not deserve your fear. Small minded, bronze age religious wackos preaching violence are insignificant.

If 'Jihadists' scare you just stop buyin oil products & join with all the like minded groups who understand that OUR desire for fossil fuels is what gives 'jihadists' any power.

Be strong, Show no fear & increase our strength with the millions of America lovin (no one loves her more!) immigrants.

(& immigrants (no one more loyal than he who wants to prove himself & be accepted) can help find those scary 'jihadists;!)

Peace

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Small minded, jet age, so-called religious wackos are the ones that freak me out. I expect them to come from Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. much more than from Mexico. If they have come through Mexico, we would have been done in many times by now with the number of illegal immigrants entering every day.

The problem is NOT bronze age. The problem is jet age. Ebola comes flying. What are we going to do if it is carried by an illegal immigrant entering through JFK and spreads it to others? Expanding health surveillance to include illegal immigrants makes sense.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

I support expanding health/disease monitoring for all people entering the us.

Reasonable concern/steps to moniter/control disease does not include stopping immigration.

That is extreme and hurtful to immigrants & us, since immigration is so beneficial to our economy & culture.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

The U.S. will NOT stop immigration but it must take control of who and how many get in. Sufficient number of foreign populations in ethnic enclaves can balkanize the U.S. The word "balkanize" should remind people of the Balkans - the powder keg of Europe that gave the world the bloodiest wars ever in all of human history. The Balkans had peoples living in intimate proximity for many centuries, even with numerous intermarriages. The worst atrocities came in precisely those places where the diverse populations are most integrated but with neighboring enclaves of distinct cultural blocs.

Look at East Ukraine, Syria, and Iraq in recent news. Even Canada, with its extreme tolerance, can serve as an example. The Spanish Inquisition and the Holocaust happened to where the most integrated populations lived, some already integrated for many centuries.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

The reason people come here is exactly because of what goes on everywhere else.

They don't see that happening here.

'The Irish troubles' wasn't brought to America.

In any event the more immigrants become Americans the more likely we will prevent any violence towards them.

They only real threat to immigrants is not other immigrants, but the same forces that perpetrated genocide on native American peoples, and enslaved & oppressed African Americans, the same forces that are protesting South American immigrants, & support voter suppression laws.

So if we just keep our eyes on the prize and challenge those evil forces immigrants will come and bolster our numbers.

We need them, & you to defeat those evil forces and take America back for ALL peoples of the world.

ya with me?

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

I have NO problem at all with welcoming legal immigrants but illegals are a different matter because they stay in the shadows although they are really an integral part of the U.S. It is NOT that the U.S. cannot integrate them economically - the immigration-law-breaking profit-maximizing business owners have already attended to that difficult task diligently. It is that their uncontrolled numbers upset the domestic labor force, depressing wages and degrading working conditions.

As capable as the U.S. is, it cannot take in the entire world's immigrants without choking. We had amnesty in 1986 but we did not secure our borders so we must deal with the illegals again. It is the working stiffs who are most affected by the illegals so we must heed their concerns in tackling this mess. It is not good for lawlessness to become the norm in our country whether it be for business profits, favorable political balance, or anything else.

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

If you are so concerned about "illegal" acts, & depressed wages your focus should be on the businesses that are guilty of depressing wages, stealing wages, & enslaving people.

Do that regardless of immigration and you will help the "working stiffs" you claim to advocate for. Not the hard working (stiffs just the same!), America loving immigrants who risk their lives & their families for a better way of life.

And just to be clear. The more people we take, the more economic activity we create. just gotta regulate those corps for good wages/conditions/benefits

Good for ALL working stiffs

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

There are multiple fronts so we can and should push in multiple directions. Last time in 1986 we imposed penalties on immigration-law-breaking business owners in return for amnesty. It did not work because we have again accumulated a huge population of illegal immigrants. Obviously, businesses will not change their behaviors anytime soon. We must tackle the problem in another way.

Infectious diseases are on the march and our defenses are dwindling due to the wanton usage of antibiotics by medical personnels and by agricultural animal husbandry (to bolster profits). Illegals pose a threat so we need to impose health surveillance in our high population density areas such as New York and Los Angeles. Extending healthcare for illegals in these communities makes sense. Remember that we are now living in close proximity with many seemingly far-away areas of the world. We are in fact less than half a day from the nearly out-of-control diffused Ebola hot zones. There are TB, MRSA, MERS, SARS, avian flu, polio, etc., all not more than a day away in this jet age. When your plane-mate spews and gushes out blood next to you, you will know that Ebola flies worldwide at jet speeds, too.

[-] -1 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

Already dismissed the disease arg. Check ALL entering US.

I disagree with your contention that we already tried going after criminal businesses hiring ineligible workers, Or depressing/stealing wages,

That is a better focus of our energy because it will help working stiffs beyond the immigration issue.

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

I enjoy a good game of political football, too. It must be divine Providence that we already have end zones on both the East and the West Coast, precisely where defense frontlines are most needed.

Employer sanctions have been a joke in our political system so let us throw a touch-down pass to the end zones. Create no-deportation zones and a path to U.S. citizenship in New York, New Haven, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. We can have immigrant population growth precisely in those communities which can take it best as well as the creation of legal probationary zones for illegal immigrants to establish official records.

As for checking ALL entering the U.S., there is NO WAY to achieve that if we do not even know where and who the illegal immigrants are. Besides, the jet set will not countenance the inconvenience.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 3 months ago

This discussion is making US Citizenship into something as common as a $1 bill.

"Currently, it takes up to 25 years to obtain U.S. citizenship legally" but the Democratically controlled Senate bill "would allow immigrants who came to the United States illegally to obtain citizenship in just 13 years."

What is US Citizenship worth? What does having US Citizenship mean to a foreigner? Is it mostly about jobs, business, foreign exchange rates, currency manipulation and other freebies? Is it about capturing the votes and life long loyalty of illegal immigrants who were allowed to jump12 years ahead of everybody else?

The jobs the immigrants thought were here have been outsourced to China, lock, stock and barrel. The immigrant percentage of the Chinese population is under 2%.

Why should illegal immigrants receive US Citizenship with a 50% discount?

The cornerstone of American rights is equality. Democrats have seemed to forgotten this in their zeal to grab immigrant voters. There has always been a path to legal citizenship. If it aint broke don't fix it.

House Republicans introduced a bill Tuesday to make it easier to deport the surge of children crossing the border illegally and included just enough money to house and care for the children through September — far less than what President Obama wanted. [Why should US taxpayers foot the bill for deporting thousands of illegal children immigrants? Their home countries should pay for that. This preserves equality between nations.]

The bill sets up a high-stakes legislative match between Republicans and Senate Democrats, who have called for five times as much money and rejected proposed changes to the 2008 law that would make it easier to deport the children.

House Speaker John A. Boehner, Ohio Republican, said his chamber would never accept such legislation.

“Let me be as clear as I can be with Sen. Reid: The House of Representatives will not take up the Senate immigration reform bill or accept it back from the Senate in any fashion,” Mr. Boehner said. “Such measures have no place in the effort to solve this crisis, and any attempt to exploit this crisis by adding such measures will run into a brick wall in the People’s House.”

The heated rhetoric underscored the dramatic political stakes at play: Democrats fear angering immigrant rights advocates and Hispanic voters who want fewer deportations, while Republicans sense a chance to regain footing on an issue that has bedeviled them for years.

The latest polling gives the Republican policy the edge. An Associated Press-GfK survey indicated that two-thirds of Americans say the law should be changed to send the children home quickly, and showed illegal immigration climbing up the list of problems the public wants to be resolved.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2013/jul/07/jim-sensenbrenner/rep-jim-sensenbrenner-says-it-takes-25-years-obtai/

How long should it take for an immigrant to become fluent in English?

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 3 months ago

A new immigrant should take six months to eternity to become fluent in American English. It varies greatly due to the intensity of cultural immersion. Once someone is firmly established in ghetto culture, fluency in English does not matter any more so it will not be learnt at all.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 3 months ago

50% discount seems reasonable, doesn't it? After all, they certainly beat our home defense team, didn't they? To the winners go the spoils was a venerable rule of engagements from antiquity. The losers pay because we are the losers.

As for the Chinese population level, I am in favor of settling them where the hated Asian carps and snakeheads frankenfish are so that they can control the frankenfish population to give native fauna and flora a chance, preserving fisheries.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 3 months ago

U.S. citizenship IS nearly as common as a $1 bill but not yet. The new U.S. citizens no longer have to swear off allegiance to any foreign king(s) or queen(s), prince(s) or princess(es), any foreign state(s) or potentate(s), etc. to become U.S. citizens. Even many prominent and powerful people hold dual citizenships. Essentially in our free-for-all, you can have your cake and eat it, too. Should you commit a crime, treason, or be actually working for the foreign state covertly, your dual citizenship affords you an escape route and may even protect you from extradition.

If our (Non-)federal (No-)reserve can create credit by a number of electrical pulses and our (printing-press)Treasury can duly convert it to currency, I do not see any reason why we cannot mint citizenships as easily as holding ceremonies and printing citizenship certificates (synergy with Treasury printer). The task is many orders of magnitude smaller than printing bills and does not require as much technology.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

I support your "zones and a path to U.S. citizenship" but wouldn't exclude or discriminate against the areas most likely to show love (rural south for instance) for immigrants, & in need of economic boost (which immigrats creates).

Gotta spread the goodness of immigration around.

If you acknowledge we can't/don't check everyone comin in to the US, are you saying no one should enter at all?

Best to deal with all issues without the fear mongering.

Good luck, stay healthy, Don't be afrad

[-] 1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Why are so many people falling prey to the curse of dichotomy, including you? Inability to check everyone coming in to the U.S. does NOT mean no one should enter at all.

In vaccination regimens, there is the idea of "herd immunity" - a high proportion of individuals having been vaccinated who had developed immunity so that the disease's spreading rate dooms it to low infected levels. Similarly, there is the idea of "reasonableness" in legal matters.

Things are almost never black or white. Instead they are mostly fifty shades of gray or more. The goal is really "good enough."

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

I am not fear mongering about Ebola. I have heard these reassurances from the big shots before. For example, a few days before Lehman Brothers collapsed, there were the reassurances by the company about the soundness of Lehman Brothers. Frequently, shortly after some big shot has blabbed about how safe and how well prepared we are, we discover how wrong the appraisal was. Shortly before the Deepwater Horizon Explosion in the Gulf, Obama touted the decades-old safety record of offshore drilling operations. Also there was Hank Paulson's upbeat statements leading up to the Lehman collapse.

Maybe it is just the sense of deja vu that is bothering me about Ebola: Is this creepy to you or not?

The title and subtitle seem to be somewhat contradictory and tongue-in-cheek: "Ebola epidemic unlikely to spread beyond Africa" "Deadliest outbreak of the disease still a challenge to contain"

The disease Ebola if not contained will still stop at the edge of Africa, apparently. Ebola sounds geographically literate and observant of continental boundaries. I have never met such a disease.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

There's a Tobacco farmin Kentucky Governor that I am sure would be more than happy to welcome a bunch of illegal alien type children - seeing as how he is all for child labor and all - sides - these kids need a safe place to call home - right? - he probably knows of a few other safe tobacco farms ummm havens too.

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Yes, indeed. I have heard of the proverbial southern hospitality (literally to the hospitals for rape treatment). There goes a very 'productive' free-enterprising Governor/Tobacco farm owner, "Young ones, I have a safe place on mah farm for you to call home. We can get you pregnant with purpose - exactly what you need for succeeding in our U.S. of A."

The U.S. has the mercenary equivalent of the Imperial Army of Japan of WWII. Fuk conquers all.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Plenty o sunshine and free daily requirement of nicotine - siestas in the shade during the heat of the day ( not to be mistaken for passing out from an overabundance of fresh nicotine ) - sides kids need to learn the value of a little hard work - instills discipline and keeps em out o trouble - idle hands and all that don'tcha know.

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

The U.S. has laws against child labor and rapes but the illegal status of some immigrants makes them afraid of speaking up in fear of being deported. Our Union does not and must not tolerate these kinds of outrage. Let all recall what we had already settled by force in our Civil War.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22318) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 months ago

Welp the Koch's and others would love to see the end of any sort of labor laws - they are doing their damnedest to bring us back into the dark ages - working through some of their fronts like ALEC and Americans For Disparity ( scuse - prosparity - heh ) Heritage etc etc etc etc et-projectile-vomiting...................

[-] -1 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

New York was gutsy enough to go after the then (now former) IMF chief, Dominique Strauss-Kahn. Even though he was not convicted ultimately, he had lost his job. Let this be heard around the world - New York does not tolerate your shenanigans even if you might have become the President of France or be tried on our Lafayette Street.

[-] 0 points by 99nproud (2697) 4 months ago

"the curse of Dichotomy"? You can explain that if you like/must, Not topic related I think though.

Ontopic:

If we removed arbitrary/racist 'country codes' we would remove the need to come in illegally.

Most, if not all, but certainly many more immigrants would be seen & checked for health issues.

How about that for your dichotomy.?

[-] 0 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

The immigration laws were made by Congress so your so-called arbitrary/racist country codes must have come from Congress. Is Congress arbitrary/racist? If yes, does that mean the voters are arbitrary/racist, too, because they elect Congress?

I wonder about the sanity of arbitrarily doing away with immigration restrictions put in place by Congress. If Congress created them, let Congress remove them if need be after vigorous public discourse.

[-] -1 points by JackHall (413) 4 months ago

New York City’s 500,000 undocumented immigrants will be able to open bank accounts, visit libraries and use medical clinics, thanks to an official municipal identification card approved by the City Council.

The measure, backed by Mayor Bill de Blasio, passed in a 43 to 3 vote June 26, 2014, with two abstentions. The photo IDs will display the holder’s name, birth date, address and -- at the cardholder’s option -- a self-designated gender.

“It sends a simple and clear message that we are a city that believes in including everyone,” Council Speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito said before the vote. “We don’t accept that some people can be left out because of their immigration status, how they identify their gender or whether they may be homeless.”

NYC Undocumented Immigrant IDs

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-26/new-york-to-issue-id-cards-for-undocumented-immigrants.html

The message simply says more than that. If you get into the USA illegally come to New York City. It would take about 9 months to walk from San Diego, if there’s no hurry, 10 miles a day. Has anyone noticed that New York City is already a crowded place as far as buses, subway cars, lack of affordable housing, libraries, public schools, Public Assistance offices, and homeless shelters?

The path between San Diego to NYC

http://www.distance-cities.com/distance-new-york-ny-to-san-diego-ca

[-] -2 points by grapes (3429) 4 months ago

Haven't we just made this immigration matter into a political football game? The end zones are in New York City, New Haven in the East and Los Angeles, San Francisco in the West. The field is nearly three thousand miles across. Who will be the umpires, the opposing team (California has already got volunteers), and when will we get the touch-down policy for illegal immigration?

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