Forum Post: NY Passes new gun control laws!
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 16, 2013, 7:12 a.m. EST by bensdad
(8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
One month after the tragic shootings of 20 children and six adults in Newtown, Conn., the state of New York has passed the most comprehensive gun legislation in the nation and also one of the toughest.
The Christian Science Monitor Weekly Digital Edition
It clamps down on the sale of ammunition and the sale of guns, requiring background checks on even the private sale of guns – except to family members. The law also attempts to keep the mentally ill from obtaining guns. It was signed into law by Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) late Tuesday afternoon.
In his annual State of the State address last week, Governor Cuomo promised to "enact the toughest assault-weapon ban in the nation, period."
The New York law will put the state on par with California, which had the toughest gun laws as far as assault weapons are concerned. New York used to require a two feature test to call a gun an assault weapon. Now, it will only require a single feature – such as a flash suppressor on the muzzle or a detachable magazine – to be considered an assault weapon.
However, gun-control advocates say what makes the new legislation the toughest is the state’s new restrictions on ammunition. New York will define a large capacity magazine as any that holds more than seven rounds, down from 10. Anyone owning a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds will be required to sell it out-of-state within a year.
In addition, gun sellers will be required to do a background check before selling ammunition, and residents will be required to buy ammunition through a licensed dealer. If a buyer makes a large purchase of ammo, the dealer is required to alert law enforcement officials.
“No other state is doing what New York is doing to regulate ammunition,” says Laura Cutilletta, a senior staff attorney at the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence in San Francisco.
The National Rifle Association (NRA) said it is “outraged at the draconian gun control bill” that was rushed through Albany and it said it would consider “all possible legal challenges in the near future.”
New York may be the first state to pass legislation since the Newtown violence, but other governors are also proposing new laws as well.
Among the proposals, in Delaware, Gov. Jack Markell (D) is proposing to ban all assault weapons, ban high-capacity magazines of more than 10 rounds, and require background checks for all purchases. Virginia and New Jersey are proposing mental-health screening and home inspections prior to a gun purchase. And California and Connecticut have pending legislation regulating the sale of ammunition.
“There is a lot of activity in almost half the states,” says Ms. Cutilletta. “A flurry of bills are being introduced, such as restrictions on assault weapons and strengthening background-check requirements.”
An assault weapon was used in the Newtown shootings; in the mass shootings in Aurora, Colo., that killed 12 people and wounded 58; and in the killing of two first responders in Webster, N.Y.
In New York, Cuomo was able to push the legislation through without hearings or public comment. The NRA said the legislation helped “fuel” Cuomo’s political aspirations.
However, Jamie Chandler, a political scientist at Hunter College in New York, says the swift passage is indicative of Cuomo’s political muscle. “Cuomo has gained a lot of credibility over the last 18 months and has a high approval rating,” says Mr. Chandler.
Cuomo has pushed through a gay-marriage law and received high marks for his response to Superstorm Sandy, which struck the state in late October.
However, to get the legislation through the Senate in Albany, Cuomo needed the cooperation of Republicans. He won their approval with tougher stands on crime. For example, he agreed to increase the penalty for multiple crimes committed with guns. In addition, there is a provision that would mandate life sentences without parole for anyone who murders a first responder.
Chandler points out that Cuomo received encouragement from New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg (I), who is the co-chair of Mayors Against Illegal Guns. In 2006, Mr. Bloomberg pushed the state legislature to make carrying a loaded illegal handgun a class C felony with a minimum of a 3-1/2 year jail sentence.
On Tuesday evening, Bloomberg praised the passage of the legislation. “The bipartisan cooperation that produced these bills sets an example for Washington to follow, and it makes clear that the Senate’s new majority coalition is capable of working with the Assembly and delivering results for New York State,” he said in a statement.
Wooptydedoo - the new gun laws in NY are really working aren't they.
Gun found in seven-year-old's backpack at New York City school
(Reuters) - A handgun was found in the backpack of a 7-year-old boy at a New York City public elementary school on Thursday, triggering a brief lockdown amid heightened concern about gun violence in U.S. schools, officials said.
Don't you just love it - this is all the more reason why parents with children shouldn't be able to own firearms - especially in the medium to big cities - this is where all the problems are coming from.
I think a ban on all firearms should be imposed on cities with "violent criminal firearms crimes" over 250. That pretty much will take care of "violent criminal firearm crimes" and should solve the problem of gun ownership.
Secondly, should these violent people go out to the rural areas to steal firarms we should place check points in and out of these cities to monitor who's going out, for what reason and when they return do a full vehicle/individual inspection.
We really have responsible parents living there don't we?
http://news.yahoo.com/gun-found-seven-olds-backpack-york-city-school-015418013.html#ugccmt-container
sounds like you favor a police state.
You know people who are in charge in New York are "morons". What's interesting about this so called "new gun ban legislation" is this
They decided that an AR-15 that has a pistol grip should be banned and instead have an AR-15 that doesn't have a pistol grip - that's ok.
I guess it looks "less threatning".
How moronic is that?
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls go to table D19 to see total gun deaths in Great Britain
The gun license is unconstitutional; the private sales is unenforceable; the commercial ammo portion is a joke and so are the increased criminal penalties. What makes me really laugh is that they are so afraid to really clamp down on the illegal possession crimes - in July of 2012, for example, there were 56 shootings in NY - because to do so would ultimately place a significant portion of minorities in jail.
The gun license is unconstitutional; FYI: numerous states require a gun license - it is NOT unconstitutional You can buy a fully automatic machine gun if you can get a license I could be wrong- can you post a link to the SCOTUS case that proves me wrong
the private sales is unenforceable When an illegal private sale is prosecuted, and the buyer and seller are put in jail for a year and heavily fined it will be enforceable
Cuomo stated that this is a "test." We're going to test it.
There's no way they can enforce private sales.
He's just grabbing face time.
To enforce the private sale law : illegally buy or sell an illegal gun $10,000 + 1 year in jail
Can't do it; you can't even prove the gun has changed hands.
All they will ultimately do is turn law abiding gun owners into dirt bags that possess illegally.
Require all guns to be registered & owners to be licensed
The government will know here every legal gun is
That's hysterical... and juvenile; it's not going to happen.
Your mind may find it easier to grasp if you use slurs,
AND it has happened - in England & Australia
FYI- they are two counties - one near China and the other near France
If you know how to read an atlas, they should be easy to find
But faux noose is probably easier to find
I am assuming that NY's gun license will contain some requirement that we register our guns. What this means is their eventual loss since no license is valid forever. Many of us have firearms that have been in the family for generations - we are not going to license, let alone, register them - because we are not willing to surrender them to a corrupt, politically motivated, government.
NY's ammo provision just created a whole new industry - it's call "ammo smuggling."
Much of this - but perhaps not all of it - really IS a joke and an affront to freedom minded people everywhere.
You have chosen to stand with corrupt governance. Good luck to you.
Does this mean that police will not be able to use an 11 round clip in there 9mm or are they exempt again.
No & yes
Thats what I thought.
Lets see, NY ranks 2nd in "murder rate" behind Chicago last year. According to the NYPD, as of December 12th, It's interesting to note that the vast majority of murders are comitted in larger cities - wonder why that is?
So I guess the "gun laws" that were on the books weren't doing the job. Lets see what 2013 will bring -
Oh, I couldn't find any statistics for "assault weapons" used in these crimes - wonder why that is? Of course all the problems are in the City
May 2012
FIVE OF THE city’s police precincts account for one-fourth of all shootings — which are on the rise citywide, even as murder continues to drop.
A Daily News analysis of crime statistics found that gunplay is sharply segregated, with residents of East New York, Brooklyn, dodging bullets with a regularity that would be incomprehensible to upper East Siders.
“Gunshots in this area’s just like hearing the doorbell,” said Sade Kirkland, 21, a makeup artist who lives in East New York, where the 75th Precinct has recorded 28 people shot this year.
“People across the street are killing each other for nonsense.”
NYPD stats through May 13, the most recent available, show that 500 people were shot citywide, a 6% uptick from the same period last year.
Not a single person was shot in 17 of the city’s 76 precincts, including the upper East Side and other upscale neighborhoods like Tribeca and Park Slope, and quiet enclaves like Bayside, Queens, and Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.
It was a much different story, though, in the most trigger-happy precincts: the 75th and 67th in Brooklyn, the 48th and 40th in the Bronx, and the 113th in Queens.
Altogether, 127 people have been shot this year on that turf — about 25% of the citywide total.
Marlon Beckford, 50, lives in East Flatbush, where the 67th Precinct logged 29 people shot since Jan. 1. He won’t be sticking around for long.
“I’ve heard a few gunshots at night,” said Beckford, a technician. “I’ve called 911…
I know other neighbors have called, too.”
He said the gunfire threatens to drive out the law-abiding.
“The working-class people are moving out,” he said. “When my lease runs out in September, I’m gone.”
At the corner of Sutphin and Linden Blvds. in Jamaica, Queens, where 26-year-old Theodore Thomas was shot to death March 25, people were not surprised to learn that the local precinct, the 113th, was No. 5 in the city for shooting victims.
“Someone’s always getting shot around here,” said Margaret
Petersen, 57, who has lived in the neighborhood her entire life and claims to hear gunshots three times a week.
She said she has seen more cops on foot patrol in recent weeks — a development that hasn’t pleased everyone.
Kevin Drawhorne, 18, said officers hassle him during the day, but were not around when an acquaintance was gunned down in March.
“Go after the people with guns, not us,” he said.
There has been an 11% jump citywide in the number of stop, question and frisk reports this year, but they are not necessarily most prevalent in the areas with the most shootings.
East New York’s 75th Precinct was No. 2 in the city for “stop and frisks” for the first four-plus months of this year and is No. 2 for shootings.
But there was no other overlap between the top five precincts for shootings and the top five for stops.
The NYPD says its stop, question and frisk policy has led to a falling murder rate and more gun seizures. Homicides are down 21% this year, with 132 slayings on the books.
Eugene O’Donnell, a professor of police science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said the cause of the geographic concentration is largely economic.
“Some of these crimes are just dead-end crimes, committed by people with no hope,” he said. “There are a lot of hopeless people whose lives are despairing of any way out.”
But a contributing factor, he said, is opportunity. As long as weapons are available, bullets will fly.
“It’s still shockingly easy to get your hands on a gun,” O’Donnell said
Most heavily policed neighborhoods tend to have the fewest shooting incidents. That is, of course, somewhat correlated with the socioeconomic status of the neighborhood (sometimes, there were even private security guards with "assault weapons" carried in the open so naturally shootings were rare in those neighborhoods but the not-so-well-off neighborhoods cannot afford that deterrence).
We argued incessantly about guns but we really need to get at the source of the problem. We had this argument before with violent video-games. The ratings on the video-games did NOT stop Newtown/Sandy Hook Elementary School murders.
New York's new gun law will NOT, for example, be able to stop another Nancy Lanza to pass on her "assault weapons" to her family member, another Adam Lanza. Killers engaging in rampage killings are not legal scholars, mostly! Adam Lanza was not on a mentally ill list so he would not have been denied by a background check.
The ban will likely be ineffectual because New York does not have strict border control. I can see that people with criminal intents can easily cross New York State borders with banned items and commit crimes with impunity. It is another case of making more laws to placate the constituents but does very little to solve the real problem.
The better case is to have no guns to minimize damages but having the good side armed professionally is the next good case. The best case of all is to eliminate the motivations.
Well said. As a gun owner (not in NY), I don't see these new rules accomplishing anything of substance. Mostly just make the anti-gun folks feel they've accomplished something.
However, I do think universal background checks might make it a little tougher for bad guys to get guns. That will be a hassle for gun owners like me who buy from individuals, but still we can live with it.
If I could do it my way, I'd start by throwing everything I could into doing away with the gangs and drugs. That is where most gun crime originates.
Certainly we need to deal the root causes of gangs (proverty, joblessness and so on), but that's a much larger social issue and will take much more time. But we need to do what we can just to contain gangs right now.
Yes, I agree with you that we can do something to make it somewhat harder for the bad guys to get their hands on guns and ammunitions. Since hand guns are most often used in crimes, targeting and tracing ownership of those may do more good.
Banning "assault weapons" makes us feel good but the fact is that we have many many deaths like Newtown/Sandy Hook Elementary School death count EVERY DAY nationwide. Newtown incident shocked us in its concentration of the number of murders but it still pales in comparison to our much larger problem of criminals having access to illegal firearms and killing people every day.
I do not believe that regulating ownerships of firearms infringes on our Second Amendment right but I do not want our people to EVER lose the power to change the government if it ever goes rogue. The unusual stability of the adherence to the laws of our land came from this well-understood though tacit power of our people. On the altar of freedom, we will sacrifice however many of our people, old, young, strong, weak, guilty, and innocent alike.
I'm just curious - what's a "large capacity clip"? I am sure someone here with "fierarm smarts" will be able to give the correct answer.
If you were a rebel or drug lord, the US gov would ship you a few for free.
It;s a magazine. High capacity generally means it holds 15+ rounds. For instance, depending on which magazine I use, my Beretta pistol can hols 14, 17 or 20 rounnds. Glock makes a 33 riund mag, but it's really ugly.
Oh wait, maybe you meant a stripper clip. In which case it's a way to load multiple rounds into a gun without a magizine.
Do I win prize?
Over three or five rounds in a clip ( my opinion )
Duck hunting in Mn you better never be found with more the 3 rounds in your shotgun.
Still didn't answer the question - apparently you don't know the difference between a "clip" and a "magazine".
Here is a video that may help you out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoSNHe413rY&feature=em-uploademail
Magazine & clip
Still do not see how this will cut down on violence - Really!
It won't
You know the gun grabbers don't give a darn about violence. Gun Control is about Control of the Sheeple, period.
The State of Texas, Greg Abbott, Attorney General, has put out internet advertising in NY telling New Yorkers to come to Texas, keep you guns and have lower taxes. I like it. See the link.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2013/01/texas_ag_greg_a.php
Sandy Hook Massacre -- bogus, bogus, bogus. Adam Lanza was just a dead patsy.
Timeline of Sandy Hook School False Flag Massacre http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/06/sandy-hook-school-massacre-timeline/
Oh yeah, I have been following SH and Aurora. Not sure how Holmes didn't commit "suicide". Guess since there were already cops at the mall they responded too quickly. We will never see any security vid that proves it was he, and the explanation over the 2nd gas mask at the end of the bldg was ridiculous.
Talking about videos, where's the video of Adam Lanza approaching the Sandy Hook School? The cameras were there, where's the video?
[Removed]
just on one issue - large capacity clips will be illegal in NY in one year
the Arizona disaster would have been stopped after 10 shots rather than 31 AND another
no one can legally buy a gun without a background check
Just for informational purposes, there is a difference between clips and magazines. To say clip when you mean magazine shows a lack of knowledge of firearms. Clips rarely hold more than 6 or 7 rounds. Magazines can hold up to 50 or 60 rounds. For whatever it's worth.
Here ya go - don't want ya to be confused toe :
Magazine & clip
Main thing about any clip/magazine is the basic fact of quick reloads.
Thanks DK, I could have used that pic when I explained the difference between clips and mags earlier (see below). But I doubt you still understand the difference.
So funny littletoe
I'm a funny guy, and I know guns. Some people are just lucky I guess.
Glad you impress yourself so much - you are likely one of very few.
I guess then he would have to be smart enough to bring three clips instead of one.
We are in a cultural collapse here. All the kids are playing 1st person shooter games, big pharma is pushing pills on everyone, rap music is everywhere, Quinton T gets treated like a god, theres 200 million guns in this country, our government is selling them on the black market like they're cocaine, and the media wont dive deeper than the obvious surface arguments.
14k murders per year, in the prison capital of the planet.
Im not sure what solves this problem. I mean, go ahead and ban high capacity clips. I just dont see it doing anything.
I guess then he would have to be smart enough to bring three clips instead of one.
He did bring hundreds of bullets in multiple clips.
He was stopped by his victims when he had to hesitate to put in a new clip - think about it!
I understand that you dont see it, but England & Australia saw it and it saved hundreds of lives
Have you been there? Slightly different cultures.
A have spent a lot of time in AU
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
see table 19 for GB gun deaths = 39 [America over 11,000]
Ban high capacity clips - ban them today do not wait a year - take em off the shelves now. That will slow down shooters. It will not however eliminate shooters. Addressing the ills of society will reduce the overall violence.
New York is hardly a microcosm of the rest of the nation. New York is so out of step with most other states they just as well be in another country.
An Oregon Sheriff sends a letter to Biden saying his department will not enforce any new unconstitutional gun laws. There have been several law enforcement agencies publically stating they won’t do it. Also a number of States, eight I believe, are looking at legislation barring enforcement of any new gun laws.
So, even if Obama get lucky and some new guns laws pass. Who will enforce them?
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/linn_co_sheriff_tells_joe_bide.html#incart_most-comments
Like I have said before littletoe um jo - "I" do not feel that any gun regulations will make a difference - healing the ills of society will make the real difference in reduction of all violence - That said I have no problem with requiring only low volume clips and magazines.
OMG, DK, I guess I missed you saying you don't think new gun laws will make a difference. For that I apologize. (see I can apologize warrented).
So, with that line of thinking why pass any laws? It won't.help. That's what I've ben saying for the past three days.
Does not hurt anything - it's just not the right tack ( or only ) to take to stop violence.
Oh, I see you answered my question above before I asked!!! Hurting law abiding gun owners is hardly not hurting anything.
Just imagine living in the southwest us near the lawless border. The ranchers that have drug and human smugglers walking right past their homes in the evenings...if they are lucky they just walk past.
Guess upstate NY'ers don;t have the same problems with the Canadian border/
Why would you ban standard magazines if you admit it will make no difference? Is it the control thing or just feel good?
The clip ban is NOW - but it gives OWNERS a year to get rid of them
How'd you like to have the job of going around and collecting the clips next year? Jeez.
How did who collect the fully automatic machine guns when they became illegal
Hmmm wonder how many current owners will dump em - oh well guess they had just better not get caught using em.
I don't know what the penalty is for owning the illegal magazine size.
I think the penalty for owning one should be a week in jail + $1000
This is so funny. Cuomo would never be allowed to own firearms.
Psychopathic eyes, thy name is Cuomo. Psychopathic arrogance, thy name is Cuomo.
And how about the machinations surrounding his divorce? He and the Missus agree to a trial separation. Verbally they agree sleeping with others is OK. However he hires a private eye to trail his soon to be ex. At an opportune moment he and the private dick bust in, flashes a' poppin', video cameras a' rollin'. Voila, a nice quiet divorce on his terms.
The legislators who cooperated in his bogus emergency scheme should also be considered probable psychopaths.
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Psychopathy should be added to the mental health screening, disallowing gun ownership. Every applicant should be brain scanned for psychopathic brain structures.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/05/11/scans-show-psychopaths-have-brain-abnormalities/38540.html
https://secure.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/07/psychopath-brain-structure-_n_1497753.html
The voices in my head are telling me this isn't a good idea.
It's psychotics not psychopaths that hear voices in their heads (I know you're joking of course).
Well, here's a statement from a person who shouldn't be able to own a gun, and millions of people hang on his every word.
"President Obama’s newly announced gun-control initiatives are intended as “revenge” against many Americans, as he’s pushing them “to snap,” claims top-rated radio host Rush Limbaugh. “I think he wants people to snap. I think Obama is challenging everybody’s sanity,” Limbaugh said on his show Wednesday afternoon. “Obama [is] literally pushing people to snap, attacking the very sanity of the country.”
Scanning everyone would drive up healthcare costs once again. Those scans are performed on people who have already exhibited the most classic behaviors of psychopathy...homicides, serial killers, violence. My gosh, go to any hockey or football game and you will find hundreds of violent people who should not have guns. Have you ever read the book, ' The Sociopath Next Door"? I have a neighbor who is one..a convicted nutjob psychopath and yet, he's living next door to me, the cops know he's a nut and that he's dangerous but because of our ineffective and inefficient and corrupt jurisprudence, this man is out of prison and living next door to me. There are so many nutjobs out there that it's truly a miracle that any of us manage to survive a day without being molested, murdered or maimed by one of them. Look at how many bullies we have in this nation? Bullies are essentially, sociopaths.
Police sometimes indiscriminately round up everyone near a crime scene on conspiracy/gang charges. The heavy-handed policing can create more problems for society because the so-labelled gang members sometimes did not even think of themselves as behaving as a gang. All they might have been doing was to "stick together" to fend off the bullies but once they had tasted the power of the concerted action, they might become addicted to more violence, especially after having gotten criminal records that ruined job prospects. Bullies are the original source of much societal problem but the authorities too often ignore bullying, perhaps due to racial and socioeconomic discrimination.
Exactly- it's a downward spiral and this is what I fear will happen if we employ such scanning and screening measures. The mental health screening that GWB mandated has done nothing to help anyone and in fact, many who were not mentally ill ended up being labeled with some disorder, discriminated against, medicated for no real reason and their health records tarnished forever since anyone who has been labeled is considered high risk and not only will their health insurance increase, but in many cases, employers won't hire someone with a mental health record. Of course, all that is enough to depress anyone and make them angry enough to commit violence!
That is the reason that I believe that we really need to have national health care without the private for-profit insurance companies constantly spying on people to maximize their own profits. Of course, we can all learn to become eyes-partially-shut to filter out much of the "noise" but that will not work for most people. Once there is another number out there, people just cannot resist taking a peek. We are born with the ability to create and see orderly patterns out of totally random patterns and we can listen to the music that we create in our own minds from plain noise of the external world.
Well, if it saved one persons life it would be worth it - That's what Obama says.
that from a guy who voted to let the child that survived a late term abortion be left to die . he voted for that as an illinois state senator.
Exactly, there are many psychopathic nutjobs living among us. But they can be scientifically identified and prevented from bullying others with guns (or much worse).
How would you scientifically identify them? Until they commit a violent crime, you can't prove they are abnormal. Many bosses are sociopaths who bully and get away with all sorts of deviant behaviors. This is epidemic in America. What about those who have sustained brain injury from car accidents and what about athletes like boxers ( mike tyson for example). This would be so disastrous for America- an already over-medicated country.
CEOs and bosses should be brain scanned by their own companies. Police officers by the cities. Prospective gun owners should have to prove they are not psychopaths.
The technology is out there. http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/criminal-minds-will-testing-the-brain-even-before-birth-separate-the-good-seeds-from-the-bad/
Andrew Cuomo opened this door, I say let's drive through it.
You are a scarey guy. Hope you never get in a position of authority. And that's comming from a gun owner
Probably you've never dealt with a psychopathic boss or police officer. Perhaps you believe you've never known a psychopath.
Perhaps you'd say 'we're all born of mothers, we all breathe air. Why can't we realize we are just one big family?'
Most people are like happy-go-lucky eloi frolicking through the fields, oblivious to the hidden morlocks/psychopaths. Psychopaths cause misery far beyond their numbers.
And you are afraid of nazis and dictatorships? Interesting.
What world do you live in? We have psychopathic investment bank CEOs, who, along with others, have crashed the world economy. We have a return to slave labor economies as corpoRATions exercise their freedom to act psychopathically. We are on the fast track to a world of .001% psychopathic sky people and 99.999% mud people. That's fine by you?
"Psychopaths Caused the Financial Crisis … And They Will Do It Again and Again Unless They Are Removed From Power" http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/01/psychopaths-caused-the-financial-crisis-and-they-will-do-it-again-and-again-unless-they-are-removed-from-power.html
NO. But, I don't agree with your Orwellian idea of scanning everyone either. Scans don't provide conclusive proof of anything. Why complicate this? Why not just punish corrupt behavior to the full extent to the law?
How often do you tolerate bad behavior throughout your day? Think about it. You witness things like road rage, rude people, rude neighbors, lewd vocabulary, just plain ole mean folks and a host of people on psychotropic drugs who are volcanoes about to erupt at any given time. Are you going to call the cops and report them and take time to prosecute them so that they are are forced to have a mental health evaluation and brain scan? Every single one of these mass shootings was committed by someone who was alredy receiving mental healthcare and apparently, the psychiatrists and psychologists were under the impression that these people were not dangerous OR was it that the doctors were incompetent?
Taking guns away from the people won't stop them from harming others if that is what their mission is. Granted, high powered semi automatics can do a lot more damage with least amount of effort and I don't see any need for anyone to have them. So can home made bombs. Those NRA radicals never defend this country against gov't tyranny. If that were true, they would have taken Washington out in 2003.
We have way too many repeat offenders. Remember that guy up in Idaho that murdered those children? He had so many offenses on his record for child abuse, pedophilia, and more and yet, he was allowed to walk free and only a few days later, killed the sweet boy and raped the little girl ( Shasta Groene) repeatedly. That judge who released him, should have been charged and locked up but that judge never got as much as a slap on the wrist. As far as I'm concerned the judge is a greedy incompetent sociopath but that is just my own subjective opinion.
You might want to take that up with the Guv.
Personally I would never have suggested such sweeping changes. But since they are here, I think we should see how they could be the most effective in providing safety, which is their goal.
I have been advocating for this type of reform for many years. I've also worked on behalf of families like the Groenes. Without diminishing the seriousness of the mass shootings, I believe that we need to keep a realistic perspective about the crimes being committed in this country every day. For example, the number of children who die in this country EVERY single DAY ( about 2,000) victims of sexual assault and homicide is far greater than Newtown and Aurora combined and yet, we only focus on the mass violence, not the single case of heinous violence or the families of those beautiful children. The media distorts the facts on everything and we humans have a short memory for those rather isolated crimes. Guns were rarely, if ever used to murder the 2,000 kids each day.
No one should be allowed to own a gun
until they are officially certified by a psychiatrist as being "safe" - sort of like passing a driving test.
The problem is that Psychiatry is very ambiguous, unscientific and mostly subjective- relying on the DSM models of disorders that is written by people who are influenced by BIG money. Think a bit larger on this. It's very likely that even you could be diagnosed as a sociopath- any of us could be. The result would be worse than it is today. Employers are using their own counselors to diagnose employees in an effort to terminate, demote and or terminate health benefits.
You are absolutely wrong. Psychopaths/sociopaths have different brains, different brain structures. Cold, hard science, nothing subjective at all.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=psychopath+brain+structure
It may be that all pschopaths or sociopaths have low activity in a specific cortex ( frontal lobe for example), however, so do people on antidepressants and so do people with dyslexia in many cases. The people in the study were already diagnosed as psychopaths based on their criminal behavior.
No, no, no. The very brain structures are different. They should not be allowed to own guns and they can be identified.
"Brain Scans Show Abnormalities In Psychopaths: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001998.html
Too subjective, needs much more conclusive scientific evidence.
There's no doubt that altered brain function affects behavior. However, it would be genocidal to attempt to rely on brain scans alone to diagnose anyone. The human brain is much too complex for that kind of over simplified discrimination.
Did you also note that only 1/3 of the participants in that study were TRUE psychopaths, previously diagnosed? That means that the other 2/3 were not despite low brain function in specific areas.
I don't understand your position. You want psychopaths to be allowed to have access to guns? Mental health screening shouldn't weed them out?
Nope, I want them locked up, away from society. I want all plea bargaining to be banned in charges of violent criminal behavior.
sorry if I am being opaque - trying to turn the tables
No psych will put his career & reputation on the line to do this.
The "psych" & "violent movie" issue is simply a delaying tactic of the nra
I would guess that 25% of all federal & state legislative time is Rs obstructionism - abortions & ACA repeal are just two examples.
GOVERNMENT BY DELAY
One key issue that is not well known - the 1994 gun ban DID NOT ban guns
it banned manufacture of new ones
I am sick of compromising with rabid dogs & lemmings, but I think the NY approach may be the best we can get
Dr.'s and other therapists don't need to worry about putting their careers on the line because they have a lot of immunity given that their field is so subjective ( and subsidised ) that it's difficult to prosecute them for being negligent. The drug companies however will take the beating in these cases where violence was demonstrated in clinical trials and yet they failed to disclose this to the FDA and the American public. My ex husband is a psychologist and he knows all too well about the subjective nature of his profession and writes and teaches about this now at a university. He was one of the first researchers to write about the corrupt ' science' in ADD/ADHD diagnoses.
I feel the same as you do about the violence. But, we need to take a closer look and tread carefully into adopting new measures of protection without compromising our individual liberties. The NY measure is probably just the tip of the iceburg and really doesn't do much at all to address the core issue spawning all this violence.
Well I guess you are not an OWSer. In your world, only 1%ers and their servants/house slaves would own guns.
Your position boggles my mind. The Nazis are on the march and you want only the Nazis to own guns.
Solzhenitzyn: "And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door, and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you'd be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur--what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked? The Organs (of state) would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"
You would have made the perfect SS soldier: Let's assume ALL those Jews are dirty, filthy, ignorant and dangerous just because they have big noses. Let's experiment on some of them and gas the rest. I'm Jewish by the way. So please don't try to educate me about what the nazis did to my family. You're the one who is behaving like a nazi.
I don't see any parallel between Jews with supposedly big noses [your phrase] and psychopaths, who are born with no conscience, no possibility of developing one, no guilt, no pity and no empathy.
How would you know that someone was born without a conscience? How do you know they were born that way and that is was not a conditioned response or a result of physical trauma? How would you know if it's psychological or anatomical and what if for example, heavy metal toxicity ( mercury or lead) lead to impaired brain function and could be cured with chelation? Sorry, but there's too many variables to consider before we can conclusively diagnose anyone as being a psychopath. The gov't isn't going to pay doctors to take that much interest and time into evaluating every suspected abnormal patient. Instead, they will take the easy route...just diagnose and medicate and institutionalize them. Which brings to mind...I dont feel any safer living next door to my neighbor psychopath knowing that he can't buy a gun ( he's a convicted felon so he can't). The man is nuts and he could very easily do harm to me without a gun.
Manson, Bundy and other famous psychopaths are certainly classic in that once we discovered their crimes, they certainly did not show any remorse for their victims. They didn't even try to fake it. So, I would definitely conclude that based on the number of victims and the grotesque nature of the crimes and their reaction to their own behavior, they are psychopaths. I don't need a brain scan to determine that they need to be locked up for good.
Not all Jews have big noses anymore than all people with frontal lobe dysfunction are psychopaths. That would make every boxer a psychopath. You're theory would lump everyone with a dysfunctional brain scan as criminal psychopaths. Someone with an 'abnormal' scan may seem emotionally cold, apathetic, insensitive but that doesn't make them violent or murderers. It's not a good idea to throw the baby out with the bath water. you and I could end up white-gown roomies at the state hospital. ;(
More research needs to be done. For example they should cross reference genetic studies with brain morphology studies. However, I would bet my 401K on psychopaths being born without the possibility of consciences. We'll see.
Regarding brain damaged athletes, I have never heard of ex-boxers or football players acting in a psychopathic manner (paranoid and violent, maybe, but not psychopathic). I believe that I have heard of car accident victims occasionally becoming similar to psychopaths, but I wouldn't want them to have access to guns either.
You keep talking of function and dysfunction, however psychopathic brain structures are very specific to the best of my knowledge.
I tend to agree that genetics can play a role in psychopathic behavior but so can family dynamics. Many serial killers were abused as children- both male and female serial killers. Many researchers believe that a lack of bonding with mother or father during a crtical stage of development can cause sociopathy because the brain is a developing organ. If during that critical time, certain emotional and intellectual needs are not met, it can lead to permanent damage. Once the person has aged past that critical time, the brain function can't be restored or healed. So essentially, if the part of the brain responsible for empathy isn't developed at that critical phase, it simply won't ever happen.
Mike Tyson was an abusive psychopath. Many psychopaths are attracted to sports because it gives them a sense of power within a structured framework...sort of like egomaniac super students within a school or cops in training or those entering the military. The problem is that once they become successful and top dog, they no longer fit into that cohesive structure and they become insatiable, frustrated narcissistic psychopaths that seek more power that manifests as violent behavior toward others. I would bet that one of the reasons Lance Armstrong is admitting is guilt now is because he's getting agitated, bored and unable to satisfy his insatiable need for power since he's been sitting at home with his coloring books. He's addicted to power, craves glory and attention. He's in withdrawal now and like any addict will say anything to get their fix. Psychopaths operate much the same way.
There's no doubt that sociopaths and psychopaths have something wrong with their wiring. No doubt at all but we still need to be able to clearly show that ' this' brain abnormality is exclusive to only psychopaths before we can start testing everyone.
Got to understand the similarities and the departures of normal thinking.
Twinkle.
Yeah, I suppose that too could be a bit too subjective for anyone to decide until the line is crossed and violence erupts.
I believe that Michael Vick is a psychopath, how else could he have done what he did to all those dogs? additionally, animal abuse is one of the symptoms. Yet, many believe he is a hero and that his abnormal violent behavior was just cultural and no big deal. I guess that makes all his fans psychopaths too ( in my opinion). What about that Penn State coach and all those fans who held the candlelight vigil for him? HELP! We're surrounded by P's!!!
Run for the hills!
One can train ones self to pass tests - but - flashing an image and seeing how the brain responds ( lights up ) I think would be difficult to fool.
Serial killers often start out by torturing and killing animals.
Football mania? That goes into the realm of fanatic - are there ties to a serial killer or sociopath/psychotic thinking? Would be an interesting study - Hey?
Till we get to the hills people - keep your eyes open and your head on a swivel.
Oh yeah! The image flashing is a good one! I had forgotten about that.
Where there is a technology there may well be a way - if the technology can be properly used. {:-])
SSRI and other psychotropic medications are known to cause violence ( and all school shootings involved a perp that was taking them) so maybe anyone who is receiving mental health care and medication should be banned from purchasing guns and must surrender their guns once treatment begins. That would eliminate a LOT of guns in this country given that so many Americans are taking them ( 40+ percent) The technology that Nom referred to would be terribly costly, intrusive and subjective. 2/3 of those tested were identified as P's and yet they were not.
The brain isn't as unique as a genome so I'm not sure if it's possible to identify those individuals that would become violent. This is tough because there is a lot of crossover in personality traits and until someone actually commits a violent act, it's probably not ethical to speculate.
I've been watching the gun control discussion this morning on CSPAN.....what a lot of fluff. Only one congressman addressed the ' violent culture' issue. Callers are more interesting.
BTW, a lot of research has been done on violence and sports. I also forgot to mention the one and only OJ Simpson! Holy moly how could any of us forget him. Tiger Woods too. There's a long history of violence and athletes. The question is whether the violence and sports issue is nature or nurture or both. Nonetheless, our obsession with sports is just another symptom of a culture that glorifies and rewards aggression, combative personalities and competition.
I do not communicate with people who label me
byebye
Get lost. You never cared the least about Gazan children, but suddenly care so much about US children that you want the 2nd Amendment canceled (this can't be done of course, because the Bill of Rights is all about submitting the government beneath individual inalienable rights).
I believe you are both a fraud and a paid poster. I will continue to point out your frauds.