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Forum Post: NRA Calls for Armed Officers in Schools!

Posted 5 years ago on Dec. 21, 2012, 3:19 p.m. EST by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This is the fucking gun lobby saying we need more guns! What are we stupid? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324461604578193364201364432.html



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[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Sure - lets put one at every entrance/exit - normal or emergency entrance/exit - better make that two - so that each has immediate back-up.

Ummmm - should they earn a living wage? - what kind of training and background?

Who is gonna fund this considering the budget crunch and cuts made to education?

Shit - almost forgot - Ummmm - how many stationed on the roof? 1 on each corner? 2 ?

Do they live in body armor while on duty? A guard is no good if wounded or killed.

Secured shooting positions? Should these be booby trapped with claymores in case of capture?

Surveillance systems? So that the grounds and approaches to the grounds are under constant watch?

No windows - weak point for securing entry.

TV tied into surveillance mounted at each door so you can have a look at what is on the other side of the door prior to opening?

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 5 years ago

Ain't it sad? This man, Wayne LaPierre, gets on television and the one solution he has is a solution that pads the bottom line of gun manufactures, more guards equals more guns.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

He does not care - he is trying to protect the gun industry sales and profits.

Wow - he missed an opportunity. With these guards - schools can do away with hall and lunch room monitors - the guards can do this when the entry doors have been secured - children out of control ( running in the halls or throwing food ) can be disciplined with a tazer or pepper spray or both.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Half of NRA's income is from gun manufacturers, the other half comes from the mentally ill, otherwise called their members. How does 3.5 million control 320 million? Money and of course guns.

[-] 0 points by billybelch (10) 5 years ago

What about the other 42% of the country that has guns but are not NRA members?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Actually it is fewer than 3.5 million because survey;s, I believe have showbn that the majority of the NRA's members AND gun owners support policies that are not those of the NRA's leadership. The majority of the members of the GOP also do not agree with the positions taken by the GOP representatives (and that is a misnomer) in the House.

We have 5% of the world's population. And if 42% of those citizens, about 120 million, has 300 million guns, how many more guns would it take to cut our gun deaths,( which are 80% of the world's total and 87% of the children's gun deaths) in half? Not that 40% is a reasonable number, but if we got there, we might be able to figure out how to improve even more.

The people who are not part of the problems shouldn't have to figure out what the solution is. But the people who are have shown a callous disregard for the problem haven't they?

[-] 1 points by billybelch (10) 5 years ago

I don't know, it's hard to say.

Based on statistics in the US, four of the five US states that allow concealed carry with no permit have lower murder and gun murder rates than the country overall.

Also the gun murder rate, murder rate, and violent crime rate has been dropping in the last few years despite record gun sales.

Based on this, I am guessing there are more factors involved. Correlation does not imply causation, and indeed we cannot say there is causation without correlation, we'll leave that to Faux news.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

And provides the structure to bring in Private Security Contractors ... Big Time Contracts. Big Time Money. See my last post on Welcome to the Reservation.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Excellent thinking this out. I also ask if they get fully automatic weapons will they be allowed to take them home or will they lock them at school or drive them back to an arms room ...like at a police station. Would their be an Armory located at the school?

Okay maybe we don't have fully automatic weapons in most police. But POlice like soldiers have training for special missions. School Duty would not really work budget wise when we spend so much on background checks and special developmental training for police.

I'm just saying big state or federal contracts would be made with Wackenhut, 4GS,

Check my Post Welcome to the Reservation, this Police in Schools is an Increase in the US Security State, Militarization. Major Power Play.
The private security industry is rapidly growing, currently[when?] being a $100 billion a year industry, with projected growth to $200 billion by 2010[2]

The services of private contractors are used around the world. P. W. Singer author of Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industry says "In geographic terms, it operates in over 50 different countries. It’s operated in every single continent but Antarctica." In the 1990s there used to be 50 military personnel for every 1 contractor, now the ratio is 10 to 1 (Singer).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_military_companies (Great Link - Everyone click on this)

Good post thanks.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

When we have forted-up - then we will truly know that we live in a sick society - and society is not gonna look to curing it's ills.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

With that many of them in schools I wonder if any of them can teach reading or math? Of course they can't join a union or get healthcare.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Teach PE ? New offering = self defense - mixed martial arts with coaching on acceptable reasoning to use lethal force?

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

The only threat to a good guy without a gun is a bad guy with a gun. Don't forget who is responsible for arming the bad guys and they encouraged the good guys to buy guns so the bad guys would have NO difficulty getting them. By now B & E, home burglaries, and such should have been a thing of the past. Are they?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Is poverty? Is Homelessness? Is Hunger? Is Unemployment?

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Ah, but guns were supposed to to protect all homes. As soon as the bad guys became aware that most houses have gun owners, therefore, we were told they would be too afraid to enter a residence. 200 plus million guns, 300, plus million people, 2.3 in each house. Are all 200 mil in one house?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Ah - but then the legal system fucked up - if your house was invaded while you and the family were home - and you managed to shoot and chase your assailants out of your home - your assailants could sue you.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Well ALEC has fixed that. Now you chase a guy down the street that you think might want to break into your house and shoot him as a preventative measure.

I am going to give my hoodie to somebody I don't like for Christmas.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

LOL - I hope it is a prejudiced life hating SOB.

[-] -2 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

there is no such thing as utopia.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Sure there is. To get there though. One must be trying. Society must be trying to get there. Gotta have a goal - then make plans as how to get there. It is a continuous process of growth/maturity/spirit. Greed definitely needs to be targeted as a 1st to get rid of in our move to a better world for all.

[-] -2 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

you cant change human nature. there will always be people that are evil, sick, ruthless. there will never be a utopia.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

not with a negative attitude like yours. but perhaps on the road - someone may find a cure/treatment for negativity.

[-] -2 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

how do you plan to change genetics?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

it is not a matter of genetics - that is the lie - it is a matter of teaching.

[-] -1 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

teaching and setting examples are important but there are people that are born bad. thats not their fault any more than a person born with MS is at fault for their condition.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

there is much to learn about how the brain functions - there is also a lot to learn about organic reactions to things that have entered the food chain - ( one example ) an allergy for one not a problem for another.

[-] 0 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

scientists in israel have found a way to generate milimeter rays and use them to render cancer cells incapable of reproducing.

[-] 0 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

influenza was not something that people were born with. how about cystic fibrosis or tay sachs?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Like I said - medical science is still in it's infancy. If you want to do a search on diseases and treatments go for it. google away. It won't change the fact that there is still much to learn and be discovered as well as knowledge to be put into use/applied.

[-] -2 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

what about inherited diseases that go back countless generations?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

what about them? Many have been found to be curable and or avoidable. Medical science is still an infant. The 1918 influenza was a time of being in a medical stone age.

[-] 3 points by jph (2652) 5 years ago

pathetic,. hateful, fear-mongering dimwitted profiteers,. all they are.

They have only 3 million members,. so why is their VOICE SO LOUD?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

cause a few million people can dictate policy in america don't you pay attention. if we could get occupy to just 1% of the population committed to revolution that would be 3 million rebels that's aweful lot of man power.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Here is all you need to know:

  1. Joe Allbaugh is a former FEMA director, current board member and serves as a lobbyist.
  2. Buster Bachhuber is a retired Wisconsin Attorney and current board member.
  3. Carol Bambury is a professor at Thomas Cooley School of Law and current NRA board of directors member.
  4. Bob Barr is a former Georgia Republican Representative and current board member.
  5. Ronnie Barrett is the founder of Barrett Firearms and current NRA board of directors member.
  6. Clel Baudler is an Iowa H.O.R. Republican representative and current NRA board of directors member.
  7. Ken Blackwell is a former S.O.S. for the state of Ohio and serves on the Republican National Comm. And is a current board member.
  8. Matt Blunt Former Missouri republican Governor and current member of the NRA board.
  9. John Bolton is a former U.N ambassador and a Fox News Channel contributor and serves as the Chairman of the International Affairs Committee for the NRA.
  10. Dan Boren is an Oklahoma Representative and Democrat as well as a current board member for the NRA.
  11. Bob Brown is the head of the Soldier of Fortune Magazine and current NRA board member.
  12. Pete Brownell is the Brownell’s Inc. President and Grandson of the famous gunsmithing supplies outlet’s founder. He is a current NRA board member.
  13. John Burtt is the Board Chairman for the .50 Caliber institute. Mr. Burtt is a current NRA board of directors member
  14. Dave Butz is a former player in the NFL and a current board member.
  15. Richard Childress is a former NASCAR driver and current board member for the NRA.
  16. Larry Craig is a former Idaho Senator and Republican and is a current board member.
  17. “Gunny” Lee Ermey is a current board member for the NRA, a well known gun figurehead and industry specific celebrity as well as an actor, who played a Gunny Sergeant in the Kubrick film “Full Metal Jacket”, a role that made him a famous firearms and military icon.
  18. Manny Fernandez is a lobbyist and current NRA board of directors member. Sandy Froman is a female former president of the National Rifle Association and a current board member.
  19. Jim Gilmore is a Virginia former Governor and a Republican; current board member.
  20. Marion Hammer is a female board member for the NRA as well as a current lobbyist and former NRA President.
  21. Graham Hill is a current NRA board member and a Director for the .50 Caliber Institute as well as a lobbyist.
  22. Steve Hornady is the President of Hornady Ammunition and the son of the Founder of the company. Mr. Hornady is also a Board member for the National Rifle Association.
  23. Roy Innis is the Charmain of the C.O.R.E. and a current member of the NRA Board of directors.
  24. Joaquin Jackson is a current B.O.D. member of the NRA and is a prominent Texas Ranger formerly.
  25. David Keene is the Current President of the National Rifle Association and a lobbyist.
  26. Tom King is NY state Rifle and Pistol Assn. and currently on the NRA board of directors.
  27. Herbert Lanford is the NRA’s State Assn. president and current member of the NRA B.O.D.
  28. Wayne LaPierre is the Current and longstanding Executive VP and the CEO of The NRA, and functions as a lobbyist for the gun industry.
  29. Karl Malone is a current board member and former NBA superstar for the Utah Jazz.
  30. John Milius is a movie industry powerhouse with several hit movies on his resume as a producer, director or screenwriter. Mr. Milius is a current member of the board of the NRA.
  31. Buz Mills is a board member and the owner of the famous Gunsite, a training facility catering to the gun industry and civilians, military and law enforcement.
  32. Cleta Mitchell is a female NRA board member and an Attorney.
  33. Grover Norquist is Founder of the Americans for Tax Reform organization and author. Mr. Norquist is a very influential member of the civilian community and is a current board member. Many believe Grover Norquist to be one of the most powerful political influencers in the United States.
  34. Chuck Norris is an actor and popular cult figure and celebrity. He is a Celebrity Spokesperson and figurehead for the National Rifle Assn.
  35. Oliver North is a patriot and a current member of the board. He is a well known figure in the Iran Contra debacle.
  36. Ted Nugent is a Rock and Roll Icon in America, and carries that rockstar attitude and In your face style to the NRA’s camp. He is a board member for the NRA currently.
  37. John Nugent Indiana Senator and Board member.
  38. Jay Printz, a former Montana Sheriff and a board member.
  39. Todd Rathner is an NRA board member and a lobbyist for the industry as well as the owner of a Safari guide company.
  40. Kayne Robinson is a former president of the NRA and is a divisional Executive Director currently.
  41. Wayne Anthony Ross is an NRA board of directors member and an attorney heavily involved in Alaskan politics and militia works.
  42. Ron Scmeits is a board member and a banking executive.
  43. Tom Selleck is an American Actor and celebrity board member for the NRA.
  44. John Sigler, a former NRA president is a member of the board.
  45. Don Young, Alaska Representative and NRA board of directors member.

And they are known by the company they keep.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Com'on don't you think we should teach about conflict of interest?

LOL, come on Sage, you gotta spell it out for people in this forum. They don't know the phrase conflict of interest. They don't know it is a legal term. I don't care if these board members are unpaid. It is still Conflict of Interst. But of course I have written alot about this in this forum. Congress is so far out of the straight and narrow. They will accept any gift ...it just has to be accounted for in the right way if it is written down.

Oh, maybe I'm getting old. With soft money and PACs they can get book sales and contributions with no limits and no questions.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Our unfailing food humor is about used up. I still say it should be up to those who let the genie out of the bottle to put it back. But even as kids they never cleaned up their messes. Dance around it as we may we need to move to a culture that abhors guns. I grew up in the West and dichotomy though it was, we both used guns to put meat on the table and heated them. The old West was thoroughly uncool and we were trying to live down that chapter of our history. If people hated guns for killing people the way we did (and my brothers in law cam home from WW-II so scarred by killing that they had no tolerance for that type of guns), we would just naturally get rid of all of them.

In the heat of passion, the shorter the reach, the more likely tool will be used.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Heard that the old cowboy days was short... like 10-12 years. But from the novels I read there was alot of friction between cattle ranchers, sheep ranchers, farmers, and others. Seems to me the Empire building of being a land grabber, made some families mean, controling, patriarchs. Kind of like big business.

Well, you have added more value to the discussion bringing up returning veterans. I'm more nervous about pin heads and rage-aholics than guns. But I agree with you about gun culture. But we have related issue that maybe should be addressed at the same time as a gun ban was put in place.

1) Drug Prohibition has create illegal jobs that provide power and status to teenagers and young men/women.
2) There is little that Felons or Prisioners can do when they get out. Seems they can't get an apartment or a job, so they have to move in with folks where tension is likely to build.
3) Today I see a stat that perhaps 50% increase in middle class falling to poverty level and maybe 1 in 6 is getting food stamps, and wages are lower than ever for young people. (I can't remember the stats, but will attach a link below)
4) There is no reform in US Prison
5) There isn't a lot of hope for jobs, link below states that unemployment is the same now as Sep 2008, we need like 25 Million jobs with Benefits and good wages right now. But wages are falling.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-21/75-economic-numbers-2012-are-almost-too-crazy-believe (He messes up the number of jobs that are needed, so it is not perfect)

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Why is it that we can have a calm, rational conversation but this and others can't do it without name calling and insults? Our subcultures are rather similar and theirs are not. Poverty (economic inequality) is a huge driver of this problem and drives wedges where none should be. I am trying to build intercultural relations in which we can celebrate the good aspects of our old cultures while trying to collaboratively develop a new w=one that we can share and take pride in together. You have to be willing to change and give up the bad aspects of your old culture and they all have them. A good start is to agree to stop killing each other. We can take a little more time with the rest.

A willingness to contribute to the common good is something most cultures have at least some of and can be built upon. It shouldn't be so difficult, but reverting to the cave, and the rack, and the spear, seems to be too easy.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

I was going to add, people in our old cultures have learned washington politics so well they have become ...positional ...just like the bipartisan washington political culture. Now don't that prove the dangers of brain-dead politics.

We would all be better off if we didn't learn poltics. But the truth is we learn it at home, on the play ground, in schools, in sports, or even in Unions.

Sorry I keep rereading your post. Guess I understand it better now.

I think I learned in College that if we were Americans (USA) we all shared the same culture. ANd the only subculture that was identified to me at the time was ..."Maybe music culture".

But I follow what you are saying and it is more natural for me to think of many in the US having different cultures... certainly we have different cultural roots if we are first generation US Citizens. The movie Breakfast Club was suposed to be about stereo types of Jock, Preppy girl, nerd, leather tough guy. We wouldn't say they had different cultures as the movie was sort of.

But you are pointing out we have to bridge perspective that are far apart as far as cultures. And you're saying no matter what our culture or perspective - we all have to start giving up the negative or ideas that no longer serve us. That the positive aspects of our background are enough to take us to the next level.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

I agree. For instance in germany when a man in a bar gave me a negative conclusion about George W. Bush. I told him that George Bush gave cowboys a bad name, because cowboys don't kill women and children. There are actually cowboy events in Germany where people get all dressed up. And if you read Louis Lamour books, then you know cowboys don't want people to get hurt.

This is a positive aspect of the West and of Cowboys. Now we should take care not to allow kids to fight like cowboys in saloons in the movies... and we should probably tell kids that drinking whisky in a saloon like in the movies is called bingeing or alcohol abuse. There is a positive image of an American, a Cowboy, a black person, a brown person, an Asian person. But could be we have to reinforce the positive to people that seem to be judgmental. Mostly I'm not judgemental, but I do have a small tendency. I have other issues that are bigger.

You know music is another way to bring out the positive. Most people like music and respond to it. I know judgemental people that don't respond to music it seems. But we will never reach those people anyway. Music can be part of the means to change culture. You remember folk music.

Does OWS have a TV series like a sit-com or a soap opera. Most of our US Culture comes from TV I think. TV & Cable are most accessible. Which came first the tv writer or the producer/network? Problem for me is I don't watch much tv, but see 30 Rock and Late Night.

There might be a big contrast between young culture & old culture, and between corporate-government culture & student culture. Urban and Rural.

Anyway I won't be the one that has a hard time giving up gun ownership. I've always tried to keep a low profile. I'm still looking for my place in this country anyway. I'm actually working on ideas of moving to a place out of country where probably I wouldn't own a gun. I'm sort of drawn to apartment buildings for low maintenance of yard and you get a door man for security.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

I like your thought process. The main reason cowboys carried guns, was for their jobs. Predators, and survival, primarily. Plenty things to attack you, your horse, the cattle. If you got dumped, cattle would sometimes attack you. or you get tangled up with a horse in a fall, get hung up with a horse, a boot through a stirrup. then you have to shoot the horse to keep from being killed by his struggles or dragged to death. I lived some of that life as a kid. Killed stray dogs attacking new born calves etc. Pistols weren't great for accuracy but you always had it with you. A rifle on a horse that has abandoned you, is worthless.

The gunfights were very rare and almost never between real cowboys. One cowboy and a gambler, or a crook, happened occasionally and usually the cowboys lost. There were at least a thousand times more shoot outs in the movies.

I gave my gun to my nephew who happens to be a trained security officer at a school. It had been my Dad's. He re blued the steel and cleaned up the rest. He could use it and I hadn't shot it for thirty years. I shot a deer in Utah and remembered that I really don't like venison and stopped hunting. I can buy better meat.

The ethics weren't too bad in the code of the West. Better than we see today. I used to carry a card (for about 20 years) that I got at a museum in Laramie that said, "If I can't help you, I won't harm you. I will never cheat or rob you. I will never ask you to do anything I would not do myself." It was supposedly made up by a mountain man. I thought is was about the shortest and best philosophy of life I had heard. I finally lost the wallet with the card in it, but not the message.

As somebody says, "We make culture every day just by living." But it is all about the values that you are living with. Not what you say but what you do. I have been to every state and about 23 countries and have met or worked with people from a lot of places. You have to be pretty arrogant to think you have all of the answers, but you have to live like the answers are the best you have, for now. I am a science guy. Science is about always looking for a better answer. Clearly some cultures seem to have better answers than some others, and the subcultures here are the same.

I have opinions about almost everything. But I try to listen for a better one. When I work with kids, I tell them that I am still a student, but now I am home schooled.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Yes, it is true. "it is about what you do". It is easy and thoughtless to repeat the right words or agree with what sounds like a good idea or a popular idea. But we have to separate word from actions.

You reminded me a guy that was an old cowboy maybe 55 years old I met down in Texas. He seems like a good guy and had an administrative position in a training school for teh military. He said something like that I think. he would never ask someone to do something he would never do himself. sadly, I remember someone intoning to others that that this cowboy was not so smart. I think that is how it works in the military. many people have their own networks of information and even know intelligence about the people they might work with. I suppose it is a form of competition. But I dont' really like that sort of behavior. People walk around sort of under-cutting the authority and positon of other people. well... perhaps now I'd like to under-cut the authority of certain congressmen. perhaps now I would question a military person or congressmen who puts themselves in the positon of being honorable or above me. Does a Vietnam Vet own the one truth because he went to Vietnam and fought that war. Does a congressmen deserve to intimidate or be little citizens who pay him and elect him.

Yes, you have to be pretty arrogant to think you have all the answers ... whether looking at fellow citizens or looking at native americans, vietnames, Iraqis, Pakistanis, ... and certainly you are arrogant if you are conducting drone strikes killing women, kids, and innocents.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

I agree with all of that. One of the GOP's favorite issues is. "government shouldn't pick winners and losers." The children who happen to be close to a drone target would agree with that.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

I guess Congress does say that... they claim we have a free market and thus should not fund social programs of any kind. But they do pick winners. They fund corporations all the time. There are tons of government contracts and subsidies. Many subsidies go to an insider who has access to inside officials, is persuasive, or has a lobby, or complains,files a greivence, says he was treated unfairly, and that he is fully qualified to perform on the contract he missed out on, ... even willing to prove he is qualified.

How do we address unequal access of networks or persistant contractors. In many cases contractors end up effectively creating their own contract. The biggest one is famous. The Brown & Root No Big Contract after 9-11, Cheney's guys. They had the plan before war was declared. Perfect case study.

How do you prevent crony capitalism in federal government when congress takes lobby money & gifts of air tickets, dinners, hotels.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

I can remember back in I think the '60's or '70's that the percentage of government contracts that were no competitively bid was pretty high like 70-80%. A justification for it had to be written, published and subject to challenge (unique technology etc.) to do a sole source procurement. Now it is very low, I think. All of the big one's are sole source.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Well I did notice some difference between agencies. One can be more conservative while the other can write a specific justification based on specific organization needs, urgent requirement, marketing survey, and separate statement that there is no other known commercial source. Not sure there is a better process possible. It depends on supervsion, auditing, relationship with auditing agency, other relationships, ...but in a way if you are the supervisor maybe you can work it out with the procurement office. You have a mission to perfrom, so you have to move forward. If you only have 3 sources that seems to validate the process. But you could spend time and money doing a bigger survey of the market sources, try to develop sources for 6 months down the line. But developed source can only hope to be guided to an area with less compettition or higher value contracts.

Sole source is a funny thing. The industry I am familiar with would allow like 30% sole source to the big manufacturer for smaller items that would normally go to small business where there should be lots of competition. See the big guys want redesign control and after market sales too. Pays off just like planned obselesence.

We have some military stuff which is so unique and space rockets and satelites... but those are limited production after prototypes.

We have had this talk before about what is a small business. You made the best points in the discussion. Small business could be run by a few people with high capitaliszation or whatever including very large major manufacturers with huge operations.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Once there was a Sherman Anti Trust Act. Some crazy people thought that having monopolies (the only one's painted blue) could be a bad thing and somebody should take a hard look at the instances where this became noticeable.

But then somebody rediscovered oligopolies, which everybody must have agreed were wonderful things, so now when we have monopolies, we call them oligopolies and then they are OK. So, one company, owning all of the cable or satellite TV in a region or, is the only health insurance provider, is wonderful and we all lived happily ever after. The End.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

With Lawyers and Politicians Nothing is Sacred.

Yep, they must have figured this stuff out under reagan. Cause they really got to work on it. Dick Chaney was one of those good old boys that came in in the 80s. Then later they appointed him to like Under secretary or Secretary of the Army. He figured out the system. He talked it over with his good ole boys ... and talked it over with the Lawyers. And he decided ..."Hey if we are in chage, we have the authority to make decisions" If someone wants to change it when they get in charge, they can change it. But no one changed it back when Obama came in ... maybe the Obama Admin didn't know that the Bushites did this. Bush and Chaney Did so many things. Obama would have needed insiders, Lawyers, and people to convince the DOD and government procurement folks. oops, dropped the ball, because we wanted to make some other deals. They should have come in looking to clean up the administration. But they didn't.

Anyway Chaney would have also said... If they come in and audit we explain we had to make the decision. If they really have a big problem, we say okay sorry, it is in the past, from here on we will make this change. And they still win with auditing. If you have the Pesidents office, who is above you. Pretty much no one, unless you get congress or the Supremes involved. Not sure I can see a Supreme Court Hearing a Contractor Complaint over No Bid Contract he missed out on. So congress and the Supremes are just damage control. With Dick Chaney everything can be handled through damage control.

With Lawyers and Politicians Nothing is Sacred.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Corruption was the first principle, If you can work a little, or a lot, into absolutely everything, you have all of the control you need to do anything you want, even bring back the Inquisition. No wait, they are the same thing.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Good comment. The ills of society need to be addressed if we are to see a steady reduction in violence/murder. Gang crime related or domestic explosions. Unemployment and no living wage are huge in the feeding of a criminal culture as well as exploding domestic crises.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Yeah, and it was interesting that something Peter Kropikokin posted from Truthout about NRA coup... that mass killings didn't start till Reagan came into the Presidency. I remember that almost. We had the term "going Postal" because of the poor treatment of post office workers I guess. There is a real relationship.

But I also have a theory that Public Executives are secretly using the worst examples in history, of abuse of people, oppression isn't really the word that I would use normally, but that also ... like looking at China in 1980 and deciding 'we need to lower wages in the US workforce and we should be like China'. Or taking a page from the Catholic Church of the 16th century. Or taking a page from European Monarchs...

Most of where we are today can be explained by a backlash from corporate executives in the 1960...that and neoliberal economics... and perhaps Union suppresion by Reagan.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Yep - federal union busting - air traffic controller strikes.

Also the beginning of mass shootings. Look what was just ending Vietnam - Did those returning home receive proper care?

[-] -1 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

prison isnt about reform, its about punishment.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago


It's about torture as a means of retribution.

It's even more about torture for it's own sake, as it becomes a profiteered industry.

[-] -1 points by town (-374) 5 years ago

i didnt know that martha stewart was tortured while incarcerated.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago
  1. Ted Nugent WAS a Rock and Roll Icon in America, and carries that rockstar attitude and In your face style to the NRA’s camp. He is a board member for the NRA currently.


[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Yep, he's number 36 on my list. If there is anybody who couldn't pass a mental health check in order to own a gun, that's the one. I doubt that any of these guys could pass one. My test is, 1. Do you feel you need a gun to get through a typical day? If yes, you fail. End of test.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Or have you ever felt the need to shoot a friend in the face?

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Do I look like Cheney? Nevermind.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

I was thinking of another fail indicator. ( Do you look Like Cheney ? ) Not that it matters - fine looking old guy that he is.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Lovable old Ted wouldn't hurt a fly. But anything bigger....?

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

wow it's a list of scumbags that rivals the heritage foundation or the american enterprise institute.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

It's hard to believe that many idiots can walk in lock step.

Doubt if any of them could pass a sanity check.

[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 5 years ago

Not really,the scumbags are running the country,..Obama and Jackson and the Democrats.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

oh no doubt the democrats are the republican party light at this point they suck but they pale in comparison to the level of gross incompetence that some of these right wing hacks and teabaggers exude. i sometimes wonder how or if these turkeys know how bad they sound and that they are going to be looked at as being on the wrong side of history. then on top of that they are constantly being caught up in moral scandals even though they are supposed to be the ones with all the morals. it's a freaking joke.

[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-162) 5 years ago

Try posting some facts instead of unsubstantiated accusations and emotional venting.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

i made no unsubstantiated accusations and did no emotional venting. who do you think you are talking to one of your goofball friends or family members? this is general knowledge and just like in school i don't need to substantiate general knowledge. no reference is required. you would figure conservatives would wise up after letting the black guy win twice.

[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-162) 5 years ago

So you're a racist as well??

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

yeah i am racist. ha ha ha ha I AM the racist. don't you get it? it's funny, I AM THE RACIST. i am the one who has a problem with president mcblacky but it aint his fucking color. i am the one who sits around wondering how a kenyan muslim communist got all the illegal immigrants to vote with out getting caught for a second time and now he is giving them all this free stuff. that's me. damn liberals and their media agenda. taking god out of schools and attacking christmas every chance they get. promoting homosexuality and girls getting degrees. what is this world coming to. they want to kill all these unborn children THE MURDERERS! then they have the nerve to think we should pay to educate them and keep them healthy. don't these liberals get it???? you can't save everyone so it's best just just walk over the top of them.

[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-162) 5 years ago

Sorry you think all this is just a joke. But laughing about the deaths of innocent children is like really cold.

[-] 2 points by ericweiss (575) 5 years ago

this is the nra shmuck who told his troop of lemmings to buy more guns because Obama was coming to get them
wayne's compensation per year $1,000,000

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago


[-] 2 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

Does NRA's calling for Congress (Whoa! BIG GOVERNMENT!) to provide armed gunmen to our schools to prevent guns being used in our schools make any sense? Many local school districts have already got swaggering gun-toting gunmen patrolling them. Should we oppose the incursion of Big Government into our schools to force us to align with Texas? What about states' rights? Should we support a federally funded armed takeover of our schools?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Wayne LaPierre. You know, he just becomes more and more of a dirt bag. It's like you think that he would even out at some point but, there truly is no bottom for this guy.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Hhmmmmm wonder if this guy is ready to pony-up the guards budget equipment and training? Reasonable I should think - supporting society and all.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Doubt it, he is right wing trash. They stand there and no, no, no and no all day long.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33496) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

As long as it is someone Else's dime and someone Else's family at risk. Even if it is their family at risk - make it someone Else's dime.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Pretty much.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

It's like a systemic problem. You have a person in a position, elected or just hired, they have a mission and they represent Interest Groups. He has a conflict of Interest and ever adult in this forum should know that. I don't follow him as well as you I think. I'm starting to tune out of the news on Radio and TV.

As you know TV and Media are just drama, might as well call new a dramatization. I saw news out of Philidelphia years ago, you wouldn't believe it.

US citizens are so dumb. Why would we listen to the man on the street about changes to law. And even congressmen promote law changes without laying out his plan, his background on current laws, his working paper or point paper. Like why would anyone vote for a challenger like Romney when he doesn't put out teaching info, layout the problem, and detail a three good plans. Romney was a wimp.

Oh, another brainless one. Let's ask the victim how they want the law changed. Okay I have feelings. The victim is important. The victim need several venues to address and get redress for what happened to them without becoming a victim all over again. But has the victim looked at the current stratification of laws, looked at enforcement, looked at staffing levels of those that are the regulators and enforcers, looked at whether existing laws are being enforced, looked at what new laws or changes would mean & how they impact everyone.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

During WW-II, the Germans used slave labor in munitions plants in Poland. I heard that they sabotaged the bombs and shells so that they didn't work.

How about warning gun owners of 7.62 mm, (Kalashnikov AK-47's) and .223 caliber (Bushmaster's and M-16's) that there is bad ammo out there that will cause the gun to explode? Or corrode the barrel or plug it?

What if any of these were true and it started happening?

Could be true. And it would slow down the folks that aren't reloaders. There are lots of them.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Put a gun advertisement and a gun advocate, TRAINED by the NRA in every school? What could possibly go wrong? Why not an al Qaeda member? They are already trained?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

This is worse than saying "we need more guns." This is a cheer-leading platform for a fucking Police state!

"Let my pigeons go!"

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

i know that is what these idiot teabaggers don't get. they are so against a police state but then call for it. they are fucking retards. ready to do away with true liberty and freedom at the drop of a hat. let me add that owning semiautomatic weapons is not true freedom or liberty. it's you being suckered by gun manufactures and the nra whose board is run by the same exact people who own the bullet and gun companies.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

All the inner city schools already have police there. You never had a problem with it before.

Unless you just dont live in a neighborhood like that, so you never saw it.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

i got a better idea lets just send all the kids to the same schools then.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5175) 5 years ago

That can certainly contribute to the spending cuts that are being clamored for (closing non-inner-city schools and sharing the police protection with the new suburbanite students there).

Conservative Republican rebels, Unite! Defeat NRA's calling for Congressional spending on federally funded armed gunmen in our schools. Fight for states' rights -- No more BIG GOVERNMENT! Read my lips and ask for Christmas tips! And no more flips, okay?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

I would love to see the reaction of suburban america at that thought!!

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

well they would put all their kids in private schools and the problem would be solved. cause then i wouldn't have to pay for it.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

Actually most of em cant afford private school. Have you seen the costs of that lately? Insanity.

CNBC did a bit this morning and stated it would cost 6-7billion a year to put a guard at all 130k schools in the country.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Did some work on federal budget this year. Mostly from 1998, but also looked at Defense spending further back. Anyway from almost no where the Federal Budget for K-12 has grown by leaps and bounds (Looks like 4 times the amount). Only thing I heard was that federal dollars are paying for more on special education for kids of special needs.

But the point is ...all major budget lines have increase to double at least. The only thing that went down was Job Training. Probably there is ever more federal control over local policies and local government Every Year And, $10 Billion at the federal level doesn't get criticism from the media, the public, or even get much notice at all from what I can tell. I see an increase from $10 B in outlays to $44 Billion approximately for Secondary Education from '98 to '2011. It actually looked like $50 billion in 2010 before adjustments. ($10 B in adjustments from year to year!?)

That is enough to stand by itself as a large budget line. Federal Student Aid is about equal at $42 Billion in 2010. But total federal department of education is like $93 Billion in 2010.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

The Fed is giving the banks 85 billion a month. Obama, Reid and Boner are loving that. Im not. Too bad they dont care or it would stop.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Anybody inside the system has Conflicts of Interest. They get career advancement through helping the banks, and through accepting Lobby/Campaign money from everyone including foreign agents.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

I think we need to draw a line in the sand on what "conflicts of interest" are vs blatant disregard.

Accepting money from banks, insurance and oil are blatant disregard.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Yeah, but congress investigates themselves. I have a half memory of a congressmen saying "we haven't found any guilt, you can't say a congressman is guilty. You have to bring evidence and an investigation has to take place". Meaning. There is no presumption of guilt no matter what evidence you have. And meaning they can cover up anything you bring to them.

So if you find evidence publish the hell out of it. If you connect the dots, publish the hell out of it. And proably is better if you can get a congressman to confess in front of a camera that he knows is running, so he can't say it was wire tapping.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 5 years ago

The fact that congress investigates themselves is a huge problem. How do the people get that changed?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Im thinking it is written in the constitution, or else congrss writes the rules themself(most likely). But, embarrassment in public news will work part of the time. People start calling their congressman for action...

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

there are far better ways to spend 6-7 billion a year. how about 6-7 billion a year to fund permaculture, microponics, and autonomous building projects instead.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Not sure Police officers in K-12 isn't a whiping out of the American Culture of Being Populated Pioneers, of Individualism, of Americans being self suffient & Independent, USA being a Frontier, USA being a Rural Country, USA being a wide open country...

Hard to believe we will always be protected by police when we have ... what like 7000 miles from New England to Washington State?

I know the Federal budget has gone up for secondary education ...maybe part of that brings a federal video & security apparatus into our schools. High Tech ID cards for each student, RF-ID Chips for all students, federal Data Base for every person from cradle to grave ...sure that is right ... you still have personal information, but the federal, state, and local government have your education and personality profile in their databases.

I'm just saying the security apparatus and cataloging of people from cradle to grave is new. Our culture was different from China and separate from those subdued by Jesuits/Catholics...

Now I guess we are all going to be treated like urbanites in China If my culture has changed - I just want to know.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 5 years ago

this is a good idea -
the armed guards can teach the children how to duel

but seriously -
this is a mind bogglingly stupid idea - to divert us from the truth
and sell more guns - of course
did you know that there were two armed guards at Columbine High School during their massacre?

wayne should take his head out of his ass and replace it with a barrel

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Good Point about Columbine.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

If the founders had known that video games would be so realistic that everybody could act out their desire to kill and maim large numbers of people with complete realism, they would have put in a sunset clause on arms which just wouldn't be needed to satisfy men's blood lust. Living Constitution? Naaaw, it was shot by the NRA several years ago.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Welcome to 1984...........:)

Don't be afraid, be VERY afraid.

Would you like a Koch with that?

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

Super size me.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

OIC You want a Kroc with that Koch............................:)

Looks like 1984 is here to stay.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

The lairds in the manor must be reminded periodically of the other uses of the pitchfork.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Hmmm. That must by why they raised the price of a good pitchfork to $30-$50.

It was a matter of self preservation and greedy profiteering was just an added bonus..........LOL

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 5 years ago

They are still cheaper than a Bushmaster. Have you ever tried to pitch hay with a Bushmaster? Not good for much but....

[-] 1 points by FawkesNews (1290) 5 years ago

Let the games begin.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago


They're pro road rage too, or at least their favorite son is.


This is the result of what the NRA teaches.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

wow, that i did not know thanks. i now have a live grenade with which to eradicate nra scum in debate. AWESOME!

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago

Anytime my friend, any time.......:)

Use as you like. It's for a good cause.

Check out my link below to the Sidney Morning Herald, for a view from across the Pacific.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago


A sane opinion from around the world.

Yes Virginia, the United States exists on a Planet populated by "other" people, who due to the GOP's dismantling of our public education system, are better educated than we are.


"Deaf as a post radicalism"

Such an apt description of today's GOP.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 5 years ago

Someone has been watching too many western movies.


[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 5 years ago

Lets see armed offficers at schools.armed officers at airports,movies malls on highways.at liberty plazza.all banks.anywhere you find two occupiers gathered together etc,etc.Where are they going to get all of them?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

exactly. even more cops, 2 for each school there has to be 100's of 1000's of schools in america.

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 5 years ago

Maybe they will teach the children Revolution.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

Oh, so you are whining about that but you don't say one thing about armed personnel in federal buildings, airports, offices, banks, major events, conventions - the list goes on and on. that's ok but to protect our schools is just plain redicilous isn't it.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

what is even more ridiculous is you can't spell ridiculous. come on what are you 8, 9, 10 years old? none of those places are where little people go to learn.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

Well it's apparent you knew what the word does. I can't help it if when I type at 60 WPM that some of the letters are either left off or reversed.

Is there a "spell check" on this board? If there is I am not aware of it - so pleae enlighten me.

Oh and lets not forget those thousands upon thousands of youth who can't even spell if their life depended upon it.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 5 years ago

Guards and metal detectors in courthouses, airports, county seats.
Cameras too. So will somebody please tell me what is wrong with carrying that practice into schools? If I were a callous little shit :), I would begin to believe that it is not about public safety, but instead the best opportunity to push the anti-gun, disarm the public agenda that has come across the table in a very long time. Of course I am not callous and I won't say that.

[-] 2 points by gsw (3145) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Will these stop one who approaches with intent to enter. People would be all lined up in a big mass easy target.

You know how many people enter a school in a short time.

You best hide your assault weapons, and lock em.


Mexico asks we stop assult weapons http://www.caravanforpeace.org/caravan/?page_id=856

We already have 50 percent of world guns with 5 percent population


[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 5 years ago

For those with intent to enter, that is where the armed guards come in. Whatever happens, it will inconvenience someone.
I am only mentioning ideas that have the best chance to pass, to keep people safe within the school. Assault weapons probably will not be banned, and I, honestly, do not want them to be banned.

[-] -2 points by outlawtumor (-162) 5 years ago

You may very well be "stupid" but the NRA has a very good point.

The Left should actually be ashamed to let their anti-American/anti-gun agenda and politics become more important then the safety and welfare of American kids.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

ha ha ha you are a fucking moron. is obvious, is obvious.

[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 5 years ago

You sure are an intellectual dynamo that is real obvious. Dazzling dialogue there genius.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

Suit the action to the word, the word to the action; with this special observance, that you o'erstep not the modesty of nature.-----dead english guy.


[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

How many ages hence Shall this our lofty scene be acted over In states unborn and accents yet unknown!----same dead guy

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 5 years ago

Infatuation with death? Laughing about death and racism?

Get your self checked out before America has another tragedy to mourn about.

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 5 years ago

Hey, every other public building has armed guards in them why not?

If we have to place armed guards everywhere because of our violent society why not do it in schools. Seems that's the place the young murderers place most emphasis on.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

lets just put a camera on every corner, a cop in every building or better yet a pinkerton in every building. lets just put cameras and microphones in every place that has public access whether it is private or public property. and just have the military patrol the streets with tanks and fly overs by apache helicopters. you never can be too safe. or better yet we can bring in blackwater or whatever they call themselves now and let them handle it.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 5 years ago

Guess you heard they say there are video with audio recording in school buses now. At least that is on the internet.