Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr

Forum Post: No Difference between Credit Unions and Banks

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 20, 2011, 6:50 p.m. EST by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Yes, there are technical differences. But the fact is, they are both in the business of lending money that they physically dont have, to people who can barely afford it.

When the people all switched over, the credit unions (just smaller loan sharks) pushed 90 million dollars worth of loans onto the people. In the middle of a depression mind you. http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/08/pf/credit_union_switch/index.htm Same story, different building.

These slime balls took all these new customers, and then exploited them. This was a total backfire. The people that participated now have 90million in new debt. That is bullshit.

We need to really start thinking about some of this stuff, and start peeling the layers back. Credit unions wont have your money when theres a run on the banks either. And they all are under the rules of the Fed anyways, so its not like they are really independent.



Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

You don't understand how banks work do you? They make money by loaning out money and charging interest. A loan is an asset to them. When you put money in the bank, it's a liability to them.

Credit unions are the same as banks and they even work to make profits for their shareholders. The difference is that you have to be a member to be a shareholder and everybody has an equal share.

The members are not 90 million in debt. The borrowers are. The bank is in debt to the members that have not taken loans out.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Right, they make money (real money) by clicking buttons on a computer, that is monitored by the Fed, and then saying you owe them X back plus interest Y.

Everyone has a vote, yes. But are the members of the credit unions as apathetic as the people of the US when it comes to voting (simply choose from a list of pre-selected choices).

And yes, the borrowers are. And what happens when all those loans go bad? Same as anywhere else, the little guy will get fucked.

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

You don't know that those loans are going to go bad anymore than you know what the DOW will do the next day. Regulations on leverage and loan fraud help with that.

The bad loans were Alt-A loans as well as Sub-prime loans. Credit Unions weren't handing those out, to my knowledge.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

I dont know what the DOW will do, but I do know its being artificially propped up right now.

I dont know what the loans at credit unions are going to do, but I do know they are taking heavy losses due to a shit economy, and therefore must do riskier things in order to keep the money flowing.

I dont think the credit unions were getting involved in too many sub primes either.

But I do know, when the banking system fails, they will take care of their top people and leave the consumers rioting in the streets.

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

How can the dow be artificially propped up? It's a stock, not a currency.

How are loans taking heavy losses?

You're right on at least one thing about Subprimes and Credit Unions.

Well duh, they'll try to keep they're stockholders happy. Its what everybody does.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

How can the Dow be artificially propped up?!!!!!!!

[-] 1 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

Yeah, you read that correctly. Now either you can explain or be disregarded.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Do some research and then come back and ask. Im not your personal google.

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

I found this on multiple sources.

"In general, economists say, they reflect the long-term earnings potential of companies."

I think the only way this can be done is if you can "cook your books" to show higher revenues but that's illegal and you'd get caught by the IRS as well as the auditors that audit the companies books at the end of the year.

And since Dow is an index, that means the companies it is based off of are doing this.

It's just not possible considering how much it fluctuates. You can do this with the dollar by issuing bonds and reducing the amount of money in circulation but not with stock prices.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

But I appreciate your attempt at atleast taking the time to look a few things up. Its more than most will do...

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

Well, why don't you try to educate me on the matter. Unless you direct me to some sort of financial analyst or you, yourself, actually are one, your view doesn't really hold much merit.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

There is stuff all over the place. This is a long journey you are going down. It is very depressing, but once you start to see how the money moves, then you will find almost everything the politicians do is reactionary to what the markets are doing. Here is a decent one: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article31018.html

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

"There is a direct correlation between these bond purchases and stock market performance"

Correlation =/= Causation

The process they're describing isn't an artificial way of boosting stock prices since they're just buying the stock up.

This is a factor in influencing the price of the stock but stock pricing is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really fucking complicated.

Attributing it to one thing is ridiculous. Its a forecast, a prediction of how the company will fare.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Believe what you want. The current data all sucks, and there isnt an ecnonomist alive who thinks the future looks bright.

MF Global just collapsed, Italy's PM just resigned, Middle East is on fire, UE is sky high, Americans are saving more money and not spending it, interest rates cant go lower, we are 14 TRILLION in debt, etc.

ITs being scammed on dude. You can take what a bunch of lying propogandists say, or you can look at the world with your own eyes.

It is complicated. And its a scam. Its a ponzi scheme, a real one. And its starting to become unraveled.

The FEd has injected over 16T into world markets. Thats gonna give it a bump. Thats it. Thats the only thing keeping it up. Wachovia already got bought out. Bank of America is next. None of its solvent. The ENTIRE country is insolvent. There is more student loan debt than credit card debt, and both are over a freaking TRILLION. BOomers just started turning 65 this year. Insane entitlements from new medical technologies comign down the pipes. SS payouts are about to rise rapidly. And they have no intention of stopping the wars.

There isnt an ecnomist worth his weight, who isnt paid to be on TV, that thinks the future is bright. They are inflating it to milk it out, get what they can, because they know its all coming down. The data released doesnt support gains. The DOW went up 11% in two weeks. Thats unheard of. Its fluctuating at 1-4% daily. Thats unheard of. There is a REAL CURRENCY WAR going on right now, and the losers are going to be the 99%.

[-] -1 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

The dow isn't a currency though. You simply can't manipulate stocks the way you can manipulate money. That's not a belief, its just how it works.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

You are very naive my friend.

[-] 2 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

No, you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about and you don't want to admit it.


[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Grow up Peter Pan, Count Chocula!

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

IF you think by doing things like quanititative easing, and back door digitalizing, and the devaluing, isnt going into the stock market, you need to wake the fuck up.

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

These are simply monetary policies, not things that can be applied to the stock market. The stock market is different than money.

Jumps and drops aren't faked in the stock market. If they were, we could all just pretend that the stocks are low, invest, and then make them rise. But we don't do that because we can't.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Me and you cant do that, but those at the very top do it all the time. And they are currently out of control. The last two weeks, the average investor wasnt all of a sudden feeling that future looked 11% brighter. This is really easy to see dude, and if you followed this stuff, you would realize it.

Where do you think all the money they print to devalue the dollar, because we cant pay our fuckin bills, goes? They just print it and let it sit there (its not printed, its just digitalized up, but you get the point).

Honestly, the fact that we are having this conversation, and Ive encouraged looking into this, and then finally given mulitiple examples, and you are still digging you heels in, is a little worrisome.

Watch CNBC.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

The DOW is set to open 1.5% down today, in weekend trading. Thats a huge fuckin swing. What economic news do you contirbute it to, the downswing, because there is a freakin ton of it.

Now when on Tuesday or Wednesday, when it bounces back up 200 pts, there will be 0 good news, and future wont look any brighter. It will look worse. Yet it WILL bounce back.

These are not normal market fluctuations.

[-] -1 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

I understand these policies very well but you can't directly effect the value of the stock.

Yeah, the government has bought up bad securities and loans. That's quantitative easing. I'm well fucking aware of that. But you're saying something different.

As for the below post, we're in uncharted territory economically so and this whole things a bit fucked up right now. The Dow is jumping up and down like that because of the constant stream of good news and bad news.

Ever notice how it goes up when good job reports come out and how it shoots down because of Greece/Italy news? That's not a coincidence.

[-] 1 points by entrepreneur (69) 12 years ago

Credit unions are better than big banks because they don't invest your money from check-in account in wall-street or generate money for lobbying. Since credit union is for member you can vote and change the credit union executives (democratic), you just cannot do that with banks.

I believe they keep banking business separate from investment-banking. This is what we want. When it comes to lending, we want banks or credit unions to lend. Credit unions lend the money only to qualified members, non-members cannot get loan. The credit unions loans are generally for less risky ventures so it protects members interest.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 12 years ago

At least the credit unions do not engage in risky speculation, which is the root cause of the 2008 financial crisis.

[-] 1 points by guynorth (33) 12 years ago

"But it will be asked, are we to have no banks? Are merchants and others to be deprived of the resource of short accommodations, found so convenient? I answer, let us have banks; but let them be such as are alone to be found in any country on earth, except Great Britain. There is not a bank of discount on the continent of Europe (at least there was not one when I was there) which offers anything but cash in exchange for discounted bills." -Thomas Jefferson

It's a nice dream. Probably won't happen.

[-] 1 points by saged (33) 12 years ago

we should stop using money and go back to the barter system

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

thats the dumbest thing we could do

[-] 1 points by saged (33) 12 years ago

it could be something like ill trade u 20 cellular phones and a snowblower for some state of the art cancer treatment. why is that stupid ?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

What if I dont want 20 cell phones and a snowblower. What if I want something you dont have, and the other people in town dont want 20 cell phones and a snowblower.

Do you see what a pain in the ass this would be? That is what money is for, to avoid those pains in the ass. It was create to aleviate these problems.

If I want new tires, and the none of the tire shops want, say, jeans, which is what I make, then what? Now I have to go find someoen who wants jeans, barter with them for something the tire shops want.

The chances of puttin all this together are slim to none.

That is how money came to be. Money is not the problem. The apathy of the people to let DC and the Fed abuse it is what the problme is.

You can have the best system in the world, if hte people are too busy eating big macs, and watching tv, nothing will work.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

Are you against institutions that lend money?

It is my understanding that credit unions are non profit.

I would not be in my house were it not for the bank that lend me the money.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Im not against lending money. I think its fine, as long as the people lending it are doing their job, and the people taking it understand what they are getting into (which is 100% up to them to figure out).

Im just saying that the switch day was a very interesting promotion. Many felt that they were making a huge stand for justice, when in fact they were simply giving their money to the petty theft/car jacker instead of keeping it with the mob boss.

Im back the OWS intentions, I just think that the people at top were probably laughing a little at this one.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

But credit unions are non profit and are a great way for people to get a home for themselves. Just use your head and buy a house you can afford.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Not-for-profit is diff than non-profit. Curious as to what your credit union deems is a neccesary profit %.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

The main difference between “nonprofit” and “not for profit” is that nonprofits are registered as 501c3 and can accept donations that are tax deductible.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

You forgot the part about "profit".

Nonprofit- all profits are rolled up, after operating expense

Not for profit- eh, we only claim a "small" profit after expenses.

Id like to know what their ideas of small profits are.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

Actually nonprofits can claim a small profit as well.

The profit is money left over after expenses. They can be carried over and use fo rexpenses the following year.

I was on the board of a skating club. We had money in the bank that was considered profit but we could only use it on hockey or figure skating realated activities.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Right, so like I was saying, I wonder what these credit unions ideas of profits are....

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

There is a limit to what you can carry over as profit and for how many years. I do not remember the numbers but they were small. We heard about it when the treasurer gave his report each month.

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

There are 2 different types of profit: normal and economic. Normal just means that you broke even and economic means you made money over your costs of production.

Credit Unions pay their economic profits back into their members the same way Bank of America pays dividends.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 12 years ago

I don't understand you question. Are you asking what my mortgage rate is?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

No, Im saying that credit unions get to decide what their profit margins are. Im not sure what they are, but Im guessing we would be pretty amazed at what they guess their operating costs are, combined with their desired "profit".

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 12 years ago

Not for profit!



[-] 0 points by golum (46) 12 years ago

credit unions use the us dollar, which is based on federal-reserve-notes, aka fractional banking,

all I can say about credit-unions is they're generally state players and local folks, while the banks these days are global corporations,

that said I see that my credit union of 30 years has recently been bought by an out of state credit union, in the past that wasn't possible, so my personal guess is that tomorrow the difference will be ZILCH

also bare in mind that given that CU can be bought, that means that the BAD bank assholes can buy good CU's a and fuck the little people ...

it never ends

[-] 0 points by fuzzyp (302) 12 years ago

US dollar is a federal reserve note. Read your money, if you have any.

[-] 0 points by ronjj (-241) 12 years ago

I fully agree with your first statement. But you might want to add, that they do loan a little to people that CAN afford it too.

Yeah, I really hated that push thing. My share is still laying on my desk and I have no idea what to do with it. Please give me some more information as you understand this problem - and DON'T send me to another website full of nasty virus.

And about that run on the bank thing - I don't got it either so don't come after me. YEAH, I just borrowed a few hundred thousand from my friend Ray down at the coffee shop. It was his money from under his mattress NO bank or credit union involved at all. NO NO NO

[-] 0 points by Var (195) 12 years ago

Wrong! Credit unions do not engage in fractional reserve lending. Therefore they to not invent money out of thin air.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

If everyone that has deposits at my credit union went there to get them, the first 5% would be in luck. Everyone after that would be screwed. Go ask em.

[-] 0 points by Var (195) 12 years ago

All banks have that risk. That's why runs on banks are dangerous.

Ever see the movie It's A Wonderful Life?