Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: new pope - a mixed bag

Posted 7 years ago on March 13, 2013, 9:43 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

abortion - women - birth control - celibate - homophobic - same old crap
BUT
he seems very anti-capitalist & greed & income inequality

65 Comments

65 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

It's a business.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

So if I was the mayor of a town and I hated kids, could I ban them from the town? or should I tell parents to love it or leave it ?
my kids are my business - not the pope's
my body is my business - not the pope's

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Not from Europe - how different.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 7 years ago

When did you last do service at an AIDS hospice ?

Mgr. Jorge Mario Bergoglio started in the 1980s -- rumor has it 1983 -- with no publicity. He washed feet and did what he could to provide ministry.

This was repeated at least once a year, as word spread through the priesthood. Bergoglio took the side of Bishop Jean Vilnet, president of the Council of Bishops of France, against the Curia who were discouraging all outreach to the AIDS sinners.

And yes, he repeated this service with video rolling in 2001 and 2002 as a Cardinal.

He made no public statement. His actions spoke loudly enough. His example spread out everywhere.

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

I am not criticizing this man
I am criticizing a dictatorial institution that is responsible for more wars, death & misery before 1900 than any other

[-] 0 points by Spring13 (-58) 7 years ago

How many Christians and non Christians were killed under the Romans, or the Muslims.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

Do you know who Bloody Mary was?
The crusades?
The IRA?
How many wars were started by popes? How many native Americans were killed by catholic conquerers?


I doubt many Christians were killed by the Romans - there were so few of them. Too bad, when the Romans fell, that Christians did not maintain their belief in peace.


Muslims? not a can of worms I want to open here.


a peripheral issue - I went to Italy 25 years ago and was amazed by the glorious churches - that cost a fortune in blood sweat and tears by the peons that built them - in stead of feeding the poor. This MAY be the one issue that the new pope may make a difference with.

[-] 0 points by Spring13 (-58) 7 years ago

The new pope is not homophobic, just because you don't agree with homosexuality doesn't mean you hate gays.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

he had a huge fight with the democratically elected Argintine president over gay rights in Ar gintina. And I did not write clearly - he does not HATE gays. He just does not want them to have the same rights as other people, because thats what his book says.

The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV)

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 7 years ago

80% he's with us.

20% he's against us.

That's an ally.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

I believe in God
I don't believe in books


I feel reluctant to really judge the pope without a few years to see what he does about women's rights, gay rights, the pedophile mess, and the poor of the world


did you ever read or see the play Hadrian VII

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

I guess him and the Dem and Rep party have something in common then.

Unless you think after 08 they were too busy celebrating their win to pass it. Then its understandable.

[-] -2 points by Spring13 (-58) 7 years ago

What you say about these verses is a common misconception. You're not supposed to take everything the bible says literally.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

Is that why the pope does not want gays to have equal rights?

[-] 0 points by Spring13 (-58) 7 years ago

The bible saying homosexuality is wrong is different than the verses you said earlier. The Pope and every other Christian or Cahtolic thinks it is wrong to. They can be together, but we believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, there is nothing wring with that and we are not homophobic for believing it. I don't hate gays and I believe they can be together. Believing that marriage should be between a man and a women doesn't mean you are some kind of homophobe.

[-] -1 points by Spring13 (-58) 7 years ago

You do know that the crusades were also defensive measures? The IRA doesn't count, you just said that because they are from a dominantly Catholic country. "I doubt many Christians were killed by Romans", really? That comment is for lack of better terms, stupid and ignorant. Millions were persecuted and murdered. They used to broil them alive, feed them to dogs and lions for entertainment, crucify them, burn them alive, upside down crucifications then burn them alive. Yes many were killed by people like the conquistadors, but you can't attack us for what happened 500 years ago. It is so easy for people to attack Christianity isn't it You won't even get into the Muslims and they killed millions of people.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

Millions of Catholics were killed by Romans?
World population was around 50,000,000

Many myths and falsehoods surround the story of the persecution of the early Christians. The myths had it that the Christians were almost continuously persecuted by the Roman Empire for first three centuries. And that they were persecuted simply because they were Christians. The state religion of the Roman Empire was the worship of the gods of Olympus. And since the reign of the Emperor Augustus (27BC-AD14), the emperor was treated as divine together with the Olympian deities. The worship of the Olympian deities involves simply the sprinkling of a pinch of incense and is done only on formal occasions. It is an act with patriotic rather than religious significance, roughly similar to saluting the flag and singing the national anthem today.

The Christians however, were not a group of people who would easily tolerate other religions. To them the pagan gods were not just products of superstitions, but were actually demons. [5] And, unlike the Jews, they did not just keep their beliefs to themselves, they were actively insulting the pagan gods. It was small wonder then, that the Romans began to consider them a threat to the social stability of the empire. The conduct of these early Christians is aptly described by the historian William Lecky (1838-1903), in his book The History of European Morals (1877):

In short the Christians, not only refused to burn the incense, they insulted the worshippers, their gods and even defaced their idols! Even with such anti-social and, to the Roman politicians, unpatriotic behavior, there was no systematic and official persecution of the Christians in the first and second centuries AD. [7] But as a result of their behavior, they were extremely unpopular and a likely scapegoat for any calamity. Thus in AD64 when Rome was burned, the Emperor Nero, to divert suspicion from himself, blamed the Christians. The Christians, in this particular instance, were subjected to cruel tortures and punishments. Thus it was Nero who persecuted the Christians with cruel tortures and punishments. This persecution however was a personal act of an insane man and was confined only to the city of Rome. [a] [8]

It is my custom, Lord Emperor, to refer you to all questions whereof I am in doubt ... I have never participated in investigations of Christians; hence I do not know what is the crime usually punished or investigated; or what allowances are made ... Meanwhile this is the course I have taken with those who were accused before me as Christians. I asked them whether they were Christians, and I asked them a second and third time with threats of punishment. If they kept to it, I ordered them taken off for execution, for I had no doubt that whatever it was they admitted, in any case they deserved to be punished for obstinacy and unbending pertinacity ... As for those who said they neither were nor ever have been Christians, I thought it right to let them go, when they recited a prayer to the gods at my dictation, and made supplication with incense and wine to your statue ... and moreover, cursed Christ - things which (so it is said) those who were really Christians cannot be made to do. [9]     

The emperor's reply (given below) shows two things: that there was no systematic persecution of Christians during that time and that the empire was actively tolerant of them. This facts should be considered in the light of today’s world. In most countries in the world, any group that refuses to pledge allegiance to the flag or sing the national anthem and actively insult these, would immediately be branded as subversives, at best they would be viewed with suspicion both by the government and the public. This was how the Christians looked like to the pagan Roman Empire. Let us now read Trajan's reply:

You have adopted the proper course, my dear Secundus, in your examination of the cases of those who were accused before you as Christians, for indeed, nothing can be laid down as a general rule involving something like a set form of procedure. They are not to be sought out; but if they are accused and convicted, they must be punished - but on the condition that whoever denies that he is a Christian, and makes the fact plainly by his action, that is, by worshipping our gods, shall obtain pardon on his repentance, however suspicious his past conduct may be. Public accusations by anonymous persons have no place in criminal practice, since they are a bad example and unworthy of our time. [10]     

The tolerant tone of the emperor's reply must be made clear. Here we have a group of (for all purposes in the eyes of the Roman Empire) fanatics who refused to show loyalty to the empire, renounced life on earth (and hence in the Roman Empire) as transient and worthless, and who refused to bear arms in times of war. And Trajan, instead of displaying a furious indignation, which in this case, as emperor, he had every right to, suggested a humane way of handling the Christians. To those arrested and accused; they could not be pardoned unconditionally, as that would affect the stability of the empire; however, should they repent, they should be freed with no questions asked about their past! The whole point is that once they show allegiance to the empire by burning the incense to the gods and the emperor, they had thus proved their patriotism and should be freed; the Romans were not out for Christian blood. Trajan also advised against the use of anonymous testimonies, as surely the accused have a right to know who accused him of the crime. This humane suggestion puts Trajan leaps and bounds, in moral terms, above the medieval Christian inquisitors who, not only allowed anonymous accusations, but actively encouraged it.

The accused men were indignant and refused to do so. Saturninus, in a last ditch effort, gave them thirty days to think things over. After that time, they still refused to budge. The proconsul had no choice but to have them executed. Upon receiving the death sentence some of them yelled out: "We thank God!", "Today we are martyrs in heaven, thanks be to God!" [11]

Not only do these Christians zealously demanded execution upon trail, some of them, hard put to find someone to accuse them, went to the tribunal of magistrates, declared themselves Christians and demanded the sentence of the law. We have testimony of earlier the church father Tertullian (c160-c225) of one such case in a small Asiatic town. The whole Christian population of that town, seeking death and martyrdom, went to the proconsul Antoninus to demand punishment. Unable to comprehend such an attitude, Antoninus told the Christians: "Unhappy men! Unhappy men! If you are thus weary of your lives, is it so difficult for you to find ropes and precipices?" Of course, suicide doesn't count for martyrdom, so the crowd insisted on punishment. Antoninus relented, put a few to death and dismissed the others. [12]

Capital punishment was not invariably applied in all cases. Some Roman judges used other legal methods to avoid it. They contented themselves to sentencing the Christians to prison, exile or slavery. This allowed the Christians some chance of freedom as the emperor might, during a period of celebration, offer a general pardon to the prisoners. [13]

It was only in the third century AD that actual systematic persecutions of Christians took place. And it only happened under the reign of two emperors, Decius (d251) and Diocletian (245-313). As barbarian pressure on the empire increased, the need for national unity increased. The official edict issued in the year 249 by Decius was therefore a political move aimed at ridding the empire of the one group that threatened its integrity and civil traditions the most, the Christians. Decius declared that all citizens, including Christians, must show their loyalty to the empire by offering sacrifice to the emperor. For the next three years, for the first time in history, the Christians were systematically and ferociously persecuted. [14]

Even then, despite later assertion to the contrary, the number of Christians that were actually killed was not large. The Christian father Origen (c185-254), who had first hand experience of the persecution (he was actually imprisoned and tortured in the year 250) [15], declared in no uncertain terms that the number of Christians who were actually sentenced to death during the persecution of Decius was very inconsiderable. [16] After the death of Decius, the persecution stopped. Emperor Valerian (emperor from 253-260) confiscated church properties and went after some Christian leaders during his reign; but the mass of believers were left unmolested. [18] There was comparative calm for more than four decades after the death of Valerian.

In the year 303 Diocletian issued an edict which was to lead to the most savage and prolonged persecution of Christians in the whole history of the Roman Empire. [19] Diocletian was convinced that one of the main causes of the crisis in the Roman Empire was the defeatism and anti-patriotism of the Christians. [20] The Diocletian persecution was ferocious. Christians lost their rights as citizens, were punished for assembling to worship, and were forced, by torture to make the sacrifice to the gods. [21] It is important to note that not all the Christians captured were executed; many were imprisoned and some were tortured and then released.

Based on available evidence, Gibbon estimated the total number of Christians martyred during that nine years of persecution as no more than two thousand. [23] As Margaret Knight pointed out, this number: sinks almost into insignificance beside the number of Christians killed in doctrinal dispute with their fellow Christians in the ages of faith.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Yeah, what are your sources?

I believe my sources show that there were no persecutions.

[-] 1 points by Spring13 (-58) 7 years ago

What are you're sources? Those death numbers are just not true.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

The Romans from aroumd 200-400 did persecute
Christians - I could not find a number, but I would guess a few thousand.
NOT MILLIONS
my primary source
http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/xtianpersecute.html DO YOU HAVE ANY THAT CLAIM MILLIONS


Persecution of Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Jewish revolt, spurred by the Roman killing of 3,000 Jews, ... many Saint Thomas Christians were killed or forcibly converted to Islam. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians - Cached More results from en.wikipedia.org » # About how many Christians were killed by the Romans during the Roman... [Oct 7, 2010] Best Answer: This is a very difficult number to pinpoint. The Romans afflicted many persecutions on the Christians. Perhaps the most well known ruler to ... ~ by timothy t ( 3 comments ) answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101007164716AAQci6w -

How many Christians were killed in Rome? [Dec 30, 2009] Best Answer: You will find that more Christians were persecuted by the Roman Government after the conversion of Constantine, than before. The difference is ... ~ by Minister ((Christian.)) ( 19 comments ) answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091230144657AAc4gCt -

How many Christians were martyred by the Romans? - Historum ... There were ten "General Persecutions" by the Romans as well as many local ... Jewish and Christian leaders of Rome to make ... Christians were killed in it ...

How did Romans kill christians - The Q&A wiki There were many ways in which Christians ... (or very lightly armed) Christians came off the worst and were killed and ... if a Christian was also a Roman ... wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_romans_kill_christians - Cached

How were the Christians killed under Rome - The Q&A wiki Answer Christians were only existing from about 5BC on, because until that time Jesus had not been born, thus the following of Christ could not have been possible ... wiki.answers.com/Q/How_were_the_Christians_killed_under_Rome - Cached # Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia ...

How many Christians did the Romans throw to the lions and crucify? [Feb 12, 2008] Romans killed a lot of people , people were executed for loads of reasons , and yes a lot of christians got killed , and a lot of Jews got killed too , and ... ~ by Bakaneko ( 16 comments ) uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080212141457... - Cached

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Great catholic organization:

http://www.womensordination.org/

We should listen carefully to these people if we want to see improvement in the Catholic church.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8231) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

He seems to me to be a very spiritual man, in the moment of the silent payer, I experienced a small personnel miracle so I have no choice but to be hopeful.

BTW I'm not Catholic myself, just watching on the TV.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

What are his thoughts on pedophiles?

When talking the Vatican, this is an issue they have a pathetic history in.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

Yep. Apparently the last pope's resignation was tied to the scandal.

[-] 0 points by highlander3 (-62) 7 years ago

He is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church. It is not a mandatory club to join. Catholics, for the most part, look to the pope for guidance in the church, spiritually and theologically. Devout Catholics have a core set of beliefs and values of their own. Chance are the vast majority of them will agree with the pope on his views. If they do not, then nothing is keeping them from leaving. I hear the Episcopal Church is rather more liberal about some of these issues with their gay bishops and such. Other denominations, like the seventh day adventists, are much more strict on certain issues than Catholics. Bottom line, if the Catholics are happy with Pope Frances, then that is all that matters.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

In 1787, "America" believed Africans were 3/5 of a human
A thosand years ago, there was no catholic celibacy


things CAN change & leaders CAN LEAD - to worse or better
but leaders are most successful when they are dictators and their followers are lemmings
[ ex: rush limbaugh ]

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

In 2013 "America" believed an African is just fine as a nation leader.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

change can happen - but it is VERY RARE in the catholic church - run by a dictator & a book - NOT written by God

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Are you voicing the opinion that they all need to be rounded up and sent back the vatican for reprogramming?

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

All Catholics need to be told the truth - DO NOT OBEY - THINK & REASON

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

My Father calls himself a "recovering catholic".

Should he seek counselling? With protestants?

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

my belief - if he can find himself recovering - he can find his own way by THINKING
why are priests celebate?
why can a woman not be a priest?
why do they oppose birth control?

many devout Catholics [ especially in America ] love the teachings of Jesus but despise what the church has done and what it is

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

The current state of this kind of debate elsewhere is that teachers are ten times more likely that priests to commit sexual assault, and the failure of disclosure of the crimes of priests is due to the confessional "rules" within the church. An offending priest is better off confessing, because his secret is safe.

I'm still looking for evidence of the former, but that's not a pretty picture either.

On the celibacy issue, I'm wondering if that would "cure" a man of his lust for young children, because recent disclosures suggest that many young girls have also fallen prey to these men.

Women should be allowed to be ordained, as has happened in protestant faiths, but I'm guessing that the tenets of catholicism demand that a woman marry the church, and devote her energies in other avenues beneficial to the organisation. And org it really is. A business, no less, and the wealthiest business on the planet.

Vatican city is also set up to keep their wealth both hidden, and closeted, like much of their rules are as well. No taxes dwindle that wealth. No rich family interests, control it either.

I also see these devout Catholics torn between their beliefs, and their teachings, as opposed to the ostentatious displays of wealth, and apparent disdain for decency on many levels. Connections to both organised crime, and the political spheres are less and less hidden, leading to conspiracy and speculation about the direction/s in which the leaders are secretly taking their obvious power and influence.

It (the church) is kind of mirroring the more mundane side of life, in that the upper 1% feel completely above the rest of us, and have given up caring what we think of them, and their less veiled plans for our planet.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

What they ( the church ) overlook - is - that the only perfect man - according to the teachings - was crucified. OH - wait - no - the 1st supposedly perfect man got kicked out of the garden for being imperfect - hmmm - the 2nd was crucified. And no perfect men or women or children ever since.

They overlook the teaching - that the one without sin may cast the 1st stone. Don't know but looks to me like a regular avalanche of thrown stones from the very beginning.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

And yet man is supposedly made in the image of the father.

Temptation and weaknesses included. Makes me wonder who moulded the "maker"?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Ahhhh good one - I always considered that being molded in the image of the maker/father was more of a spiritual thing/possibility rather then a physical representation - and that as newborns - we were not ( are not ) complete.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Yes, it's all about potential/s.

My fave chant when meditating is "Om namah shivayah"

Rough translation is "I am the one" or "I am at one with the universe".

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

In reply to your response below...

My experience with docs is very similar...and I hear it so often. I too have said no to various meds. Congrats on the neuralgia healing. So cool!

I have a medical condition as well that took many years to get diagnosed (Celiac). During the interim, I had to do my own research and consequently ended up with quite a bit of knowledge that I still pull from, for myself and others.

Its not too often one hears this kind of awareness from a guy, though recently I've been pleasantly surprised...and I just have to give you kudos.

Thank goodness for esoteric friends. How dull would life be without them, eh? The purple & white aura sounds cool, & would have been a treat to see. I don't know if I've ever gotten that far, but I can certainly relate to the sensation in the tummy. I feel it through my torso up to my head. I start breathing with the visual of minty vapor entering my body with each breath in, I do this over and over again till my out breath feels so cleansed that it feels like the azure blue of tropical waters. At one with the ocean. I end up with the sensation that I'm floating.

I'm going to add your chants and see where it takes me.

Our minds are only limited by our own finite thought processes. The key for me is to think 'infinity'. We are capable of so much. If all people tapped in to all that energy, imagine what a peaceful world we'd live in. A world where people took care of themselves and their fellow human beings.

Thanks again Builder. Great inspiration.


[-] 2 points by Builder (4036) 8 hours ago

I was trying to heal myself from a rather painful neuralgia condition in the eye. Medical profession had no answers, except for tranks, and I had no wish to live like a zombie.

We can reach a point when meditating, where we tap into a form of healing energy. The first time it happened to me, I felt this growing warmth in my stomach, and this "grew" inside me until it filled my whole being. I could feel the heat coming in through my lower abdomen, and exiting out the top of my head.

I was told by my esoteric friend that a purple and white aura could clearly be seen enveloping me entirely, and shining brightly twice my height above me.

Long story short, I did manage to control my pain, and effectively heal nerve endings that doctors said would trouble me for the rest of my life.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Our minds are indeed more powerful than we could imagine. It's the information we input that makes the difference. It's the reason I avoid commercial television these days. There's way too much negativity and subtle control mechanisms going on there. I guess that's why it's called programming.

The healing episode I mentioned happened over 25 years ago, and yes, thank my lucky stars for that particular esoteric friend. She taught me so much. She'd done the forty day fast in India under Sai Baba, so I guess he deserves my thanks also.

But, men being the hard-heads we are, I took my new health for granted, and pretty much went back to being the omnivorous night-clubber, though those days are now behind me.

I do think often these days that I must get back to where I was all those years ago. Live food diet, regular meditation sessions, limit the excesses. I've just turned fifty, and planning to backpack extensively, so the time might be right.

And thanks for sharing your story, Renneye. The world truly is a wonderful place. If we could convince others that greed/avarice and consumerism is such a negative mindset, what a difference that small step would make.

I have had to cook for a coeliac before, and there's so much we take for granted when making food that you can't have with that condition. Hope you've found the balance required for a healthy life. We certainly do have way too many wheat products and gluten in our diets, and that hasn't always been the case in our history. Maybe having to cook for that guy opened my eyes to alternatives to eating all that wheat.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

There is so much that we are capable of - the mind is an incredibly powerful thing - and little understood.


[-] 2 points by Builder (4042) 0 minutes ago

I was trying to heal myself from a rather painful neuralgia condition in the eye. Medical profession had no answers, except for tranks, and I had no wish to live like a zombie.

We can reach a point when meditating, where we tap into a form of healing energy. The first time it happened to me, I felt this growing warmth in my stomach, and this "grew" inside me until it filled my whole being. I could feel the heat coming in through my lower abdomen, and exiting out the top of my head.

I was told by my esoteric friend that a purple and white aura could clearly be seen enveloping me entirely, and shining brightly twice my height above me.

Long story short, I did manage to control my pain, and effectively heal nerve endings that doctors said would trouble me for the rest of my life. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

I've never chanted before, but this is worth a try. I know that getting a core vibration going is very good for health. I too focus on breathing, but with beautiful imagery. Thanks for those positive words to live by, Builder.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I was trying to heal myself from a rather painful neuralgia condition in the eye. Medical profession had no answers, except for tranks, and I had no wish to live like a zombie.

We can reach a point when meditating, where we tap into a form of healing energy. The first time it happened to me, I felt this growing warmth in my stomach, and this "grew" inside me until it filled my whole being. I could feel the heat coming in through my lower abdomen, and exiting out the top of my head.

I was told by my esoteric friend that a purple and white aura could clearly be seen enveloping me entirely, and shining brightly twice my height above me.

Long story short, I did manage to control my pain, and effectively heal nerve endings that doctors said would trouble me for the rest of my life.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Huh - I don't generally do that - I will have to give it a try - I usually try to picture a calm and beautiful landscape/scene/image and perhaps throw in a key word or thought on peace harmony love and such.

One of my favorite sayings is - I am what I am & that is all that I am.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I have a hyperactive brain.

I also just focus on my breath, and count in, then count out.

A trick I learned when pushing through the pain barrier when distance running.

The chants help me lose focus, more than gaining it.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Yes - repetitive chanting or counting is very helpful to shutting off the non-stop internal dialog ( also the concentration/controlling of breathing ) - then - one can make some interesting thoughts connections discoveries in free flow/float.


[-] 2 points by Builder (4042) 0 minutes ago

I have a hyperactive brain.

I also just focus on my breath, and count in, then count out.

A trick I learned when pushing through the pain barrier when distance running.

The chants help me lose focus, more than gaining it. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

I'd agree completely Builder. The input is important. I've quit commercial tv as well. The 'programming' you speak of...the indoctrination, the propoganda is so thick that one just has to make a decision to shut it out for good. On occasion I have tuned in to a show like CNN just to see what propoganda angle they are working to sell a certain event or war. I did this recently given the concern I have with Syria at the moment.

I think its important too, to limit the 'visual pollution'. From a health perspective, the images we take in and store in our minds affect us. They're there permanently. It isn't good to have snapshots of gruesome horror flicks and crime shows in our minds. It takes up mental space with negativity, hinders healing and subjugates the process of positive consciousness and helping our fellow human beings. Having said that, I recently took great delight in saying yes and scaring the bejesus out of my daughter when she recently asked to watch her first horror film. A kind of right of passage thing. I'm sure that says something twisted about me, lol!

In reading my last post, I'm kinda shaking my head a little at my uncouth remark re; the lack of health awareness on the part of guys, heheh! I'm feeling like I need to apologize for the rather 'sexist' remark. The fact is, there are untold numbers of very health conscious men in the world. Indeed some of our most well loved and respected health teachers, gurus, and indeed forum members are men. So, I humbly apologize for that most heedless of comments.

From what I can gather, the lifestyle you live now I'm sure compensates for any 'omnivorous night-clubbing' that may have occured way back when. And we all need some memories from those days that we can sit around the campfire and tell our kids and grand-kids about some day, don't we? Lol!

As jealous as I am, I wish you great adventures on your up and coming backpack trip...and 50 is still plenty young to get back to health and 'skip the light fandango'.

Yes, 'greed/avarice and consumerism' have a stronghold on society right now. The public has been conditioned into apathy. We're shown that its good to laugh at and gloss over other people's pain. Youtube and tv are loaded with these videos and shows. This has to stop. Still, I see hope. Many kids and young folks these days blow me away with their compassion. A testament to the heart of the true human condition. That we naturally want to love and help our fellow human beings.

Having to cook for your celiac friend was an unusual but welcome education I'm sure. And yes, thanks, its been a process, but I've gotten better at the gluten free diet over time. Even gluten free foods can be a problem though, as they tend to substitute gluten with corn which is not a whole lot better. I'm working towards a 'paleolithic' (hunter/gatherer) diet, with the exception of potatoes. I don't think I could ever give them up totally, heheh. I do still use gluten free seasonings though. But the Paleo diet is, in my view, the most balanced and healthy.


[-] 1 points by Builder (3891) 6 days ago

Our minds are indeed more powerful than we could imagine. It's the information we input that makes the difference. It's the reason I avoid commercial television these days. There's way too much negativity and subtle control mechanisms going on there. I guess that's why it's called programming.

The healing episode I mentioned happened over 25 years ago, and yes, thank my lucky stars for that particular esoteric friend. She taught me so much. She'd done the forty day fast in India under Sai Baba, so I guess he deserves my thanks also.

But, men being the hard-heads we are, I took my new health for granted, and pretty much went back to being the omnivorous night-clubber, though those days are now behind me.

I do think often these days that I must get back to where I was all those years ago. Live food diet, regular meditation sessions, limit the excesses. I've just turned fifty, and planning to backpack extensively, so the time might be right.

And thanks for sharing your story, Renneye. The world truly is a wonderful place. If we could convince others that greed/avarice and consumerism is such a negative mindset, what a difference that small step would make.

I have had to cook for a coeliac before, and there's so much we take for granted when making food that you can't have with that condition. Hope you've found the balance required for a healthy life. We certainly do have way too many wheat products and gluten in our diets, and that hasn't always been the case in our history. Maybe having to cook for that guy opened my eyes to alternatives to eating all that wheat. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

Have you ever listened to a pedophile priest victim?


The current state of this kind of debate elsewhere is that teachers are ten times more likely that priests to commit sexual assault your proof of this ?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

@Builder&Bensdad.

Those who are exposed to children growing in their innocence and open joy and wonder - should not ever be left alone with those children. As the open innocence joy and wonder can be very intoxicating - most especially to the world weary and jaded.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I'm still trying to get to that proof, BD.

The church isn't apparently the only place where paedophilia gets covered up.

[-] -1 points by highlander4 (-84) 7 years ago

Separation of church and state; leave the Catholic church alone. No one forces an individual to be Catholic.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

but the catholics want to control the bodies of non-catholic women
and lie about religious freedom - which is for PEOPLE -
not for churches.
For example, if my church believes fire is God's will and fire prevention is sacreligious, can my church build a church that violates the building code?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Nope - as one of the teachings is supposed to be render unto Caesar ( government ) that which is Caesar's ( government's ).

Well - that would only qualify or limit your church - if it were christian.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

How much money did the catholic church spend to try to stop women from controlling their bodies? or anyone using birth control? or homophobic dictates?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

They have taken on things which are beyond them - many might say - WHAT? - I would return = They are not perfect - so - where is it their place to judge?

Honestly - the churches mandate was only "EVER" to Teach/preach the word of God. It was never their mandate to interpret it or enforce it.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

I know ( well ) at least two Catholics who feel VERY Catholic and attend church very regularly, but despise the last two popes

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

There's no escaping facts.

Laws within the vatican's rule book make it impossible for priests to dob in priests. Its part of the whole confession/secrecy gig.

That's why it is always an issue, and it's always why probates and priests get shunted from diocese to diocese, to give the perps a chance to make a fresh start, and stop being a paedophile. It might work with some of them. We don't have any stats on that, for obvious reasons.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

Many pedophiles were accused in public - not in the confessional BY THE PRIEST-
and the church HID that fact.
Benedict did it many times. Before he was pope, he ran what used to be called "The Inquisition"
That is why they are in financial trouble.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I agree that it goes deeper and deeper than most want to look, but certainly something needs to also be done about the confessing thing. It's like a get out of gaol free card for them.

Almost an open invitation to paedophiles. They actively seek targets, particularly in their job choices.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

yes - all authority figures can abuse power - especially if they are your ONLY route to heaven when you are dead

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

That sounds like blackmail to me.

An Inuit asked a priest if he would still go to hell if he didn't know about sin. When the priest said no, the Inuit said, "Then why did you tell me?".

Any belief system that carries guilt complexes as its motivational source material is wide open to abuses of power.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Love it = An Inuit asked a priest if he would still go to hell if he didn't know about sin. When the priest said no, the Inuit said, "Then why did you tell me?"

[-] 0 points by highlander3 (-62) 7 years ago

If he were a president or UN secretary, then, maybe you have a point.

[-] -1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 7 years ago

In spite of the corruption of religion, I think we need to ground this movement in spirituality. Our cause is spiritually in the right, and so those genuine aspects of spirituality are there to work for us if we embrace them. Love, truth, justice, empathy, introspection, and the other aspects of The Good are powerful forces. If we conciously embrace them, and act on them, we can change the world.

TRUTH is on our side.

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

well said

[-] 0 points by GypsyKing (8708) 7 years ago

Thank you, my friend.