01[19:03] on a scale of 1 - 10, how negative is the ows movemnet
[19:03] we NEED modern food labels
[19:03] tree: That's a reasonable request, I think.
[19:04] if it contains animal products
03[19:04] Nicholasfukuoka (446ece31@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.110.206.49) has joined #occupywallst
[19:04] if it's gmo
[19:04] <@usotsuki> I'm not sure it should even be legal to sell GMO under its name at all, e.g., GM "corn" should not be called corn
[19:04] where it's from
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[19:04] in india they have red dots and green dots on food packaging to signify whether it's vegetarian or nto
03[19:04] gaia417 (45cb9d22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.203.157.34) has joined #occupywallst
[19:04] but biggest thing is people need to educate themselves :)
01[19:05] ive been noticing a very negative vibe lately, and I think its turning people off
[19:05] anonfox: true. :)
[19:05] <zorgon> banks lying like crazy to steal your money: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/11/quelle-surprise-banks-lied-about-bailout-funds-and-got-13-billion-in-profit-from-them.html
[19:05] <@anarchabot> zorgon: [Quelle Surprise! Banks Lied About Bailout Funds and Got $13 Billion in Profit from Them « naked capitalism]
[19:05] <gaia417> anyone else feel like while we should remain "lederless" perhaps it's time to anoint some spokespeople?
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[19:05] <gaia417> leaderless
[19:06] <Nicholasfukuoka> Hey everybody - I really think I may have the answer to success in this movement. I made a thread in this forum - but I'm linking to my reddit post because it displays the formatting. http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/msatv/i_think_i_know_how_occupy_can_succeed_really_any/
[19:06] <tree> no
[19:06] <@anarchabot> Nicholasfukuoka: [I think I know how Occupy can succeed. Really. Any programmers willing to hear me out? : occupywallstreet]
[19:06] <NORWAY> Anon - Yes, and therefore we need more independant news to people. No agenda but to spread well documented information
[19:06] yes
01[19:06] no agenda means no accomplishment
[19:06] <Johnathan9809> i'll listen
[19:06] <Zamzoph> gaia, in a way, OWS already does have leaders
02[19:07] Timmeh_ (47dd5cc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.221.92.200) Quit (Quit: Page closed)
01[19:07] unless you r ok with random change - let the peices fall where they may
[19:07] <@raijin> why is everyone begging to have overlords to wprship
[19:07] <@usotsuki> ^
[19:07] <NORWAY> ok, bad wording
[19:07] <@usotsuki> s/worship/be assassinated/
[19:07] <jzknight> people love having kings lord over them
[19:07] <jzknight> look at england
[19:07] <gaia417> I just feel as though we're losing steam fast and need to capitalize on the current momentum
[19:07] <@raijin> "We want to reliquish our authrioty to someone so that we do not have to be held accountable"
[19:07] <@usotsuki> we ain't losing steam
[19:07] <jzknight> gaia417: it's winter
[19:07] <@usotsuki> we ain't going nowhere
[19:07] <zorgon> wuttup brodogs
[19:08] <Zamzoph> Winter is coming
[19:08] <@raijin> authority
01[19:08] a agenda does not need a leader... it just needs a series of goals, leading to a large goal
[19:08] <jzknight> gaia417: the same people that are pissed right now will be pissed when spring comes around
[19:08] <jzknight> gaia417: and probably some more
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[19:08] <Johnathan9809> many say they are going nowhere... but as time ticks on... how many will disappear?
[19:08] <jzknight> gaia417: it's not like theres jobs for all of them this winter
[19:08] <jzknight> Johnathan9809: where do they go?
[19:08] <tree> it coulddo maybe with a demand or two. like shorten the work week to 32 hrs. i was reading about haymarket square and that was a good demand to get behind. shorten work week more. it deals with a lot of things. increase employment. decrease production which we have too much of and is killing the earth.
[19:09] <Nicholasfukuoka> You guys - I really have the answer to finding direction while maintaining a leaderless movement. Please take a minute and go over this: http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/msatv/i_think_i_know_how_occupy_can_succeed_really_any/
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[19:09] <zorgon> interest-free mortgages for all
[19:09] <jzknight> tree: the problem is people aren't working enough though
[19:09] zorgon, are you a muslim? ;)
01[19:09] anyone here following the occupy of olympia?
[19:09] <Johnathan9809> people in general will lose interest... they will find a new shirt tail to grab onto and ride... i'm hoping this doesn't happen... but how many times has it?
[19:09] <@raijin> zorgon: interest free everything
[19:09] <gaia417> I get that, but after a while, the efforts we make will begin to fall on deaf ears because our media welcome will have fallen into the category of "white noise"
[19:09] <@usotsuki> the thing about demands is they'll just tell us to shut up after they hear
01[19:09] shut up
[19:09] <@usotsuki> it AIN'T gonna happen
[19:09] <@raijin> Johnathan9809: and the ones that stay will be the ones to count on
[19:09] <@jrabbit> PSC is out at CUNY protest
[19:10] <zorgon> nein anonFOX
[19:10] <jzknight> tree: Johnathan9809: as long as theyre poor and unemployed, they wont be going far
[19:10] <gaia417> Nicholasfukuoka: I've bookmarked your post and will read later
01[19:10] people will lose interest, when they see nothing change
[19:10] sprachen sie deutsch?
[19:10] <Johnathan9809> I do hope enough hold on to make a difference....
[19:10] <@raijin> jzknight: protestor != jobless and poor
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[19:10] <zorgon> medicine, food, clothing, education, and housing should be free
[19:10] <Zamzoph> anonFOX: nein
[19:10] <@usotsuki> rather than hoping, why not enter the fray yourself?
01[19:10] what would be the point, so I can get shouted down?
[19:11] interesting, what are you contributing?
[19:11] <@usotsuki> ...
[19:11] <@raijin> interesting: then why fking whining
01[19:11] exactly
[19:11] <@usotsuki> 0:38 on the Miley Cyrus video... is that a fist flag?
[19:11] <zorgon> party in the USA?
[19:11] <@raijin> fucking coopting in progress
01[19:11] there is nothing to co opt
[19:11] <tree> wanting more of their money sounds whiny but wanting to be less part of it and showing we need to be doing less is a message that u can't mess with
[19:12] <@raijin> interesting: wat
[19:12] <zorgon> dissolve the congress
[19:12] <Zamzoph> there's plenty to co-op to be had, but those who want to help keep on getting pushed away
[19:12] <Zamzoph> because of the belief that co-op is bad
01[19:13] the message of ows is, believe in nothing
[19:13] <tylerdurden> really
[19:13] <@epi> we stand for us, not some wealthy bankroller
01[19:13] that is an empty statement
[19:13] how can people lose interest in OWS when the future of a nation depends on its success?
[19:14] <@usotsuki> apathy
[19:14] <@usotsuki> it's the American way
[19:14] <gaia417> " the message of ows is, believe in nothing" clearly that statement needs to be qualified
[19:14] <Zamzoph> epi, so if somebody is able to give OWS everything they want if he can just get in an elected office, OWS will still turn down helping him?
[19:14] <@raijin> interesting: what is wrong with you today
01[19:14] no matter what you believe, someone else in ows will tell you not to believe in it
[19:14] that's a good thing, interesting
[19:14] <tylerdurden> well ows is diverse
[19:14] we are a diverse crowd
01[19:14] that is intolerante, not diverse
[19:14] <gaia417> intersting, I think that's symptomatic of society
[19:15] <@raijin> interesting: if you are looking for zombies, fundies will take you
[19:15] <tylerdurden> there will always be differing opinions
[19:15] <@epi> Zamzoph: We will turn down people looking to influence us or compromise us
[19:15] <@raijin> interesting: who is telling you what to believe
01[19:15] what difference does it make
Command copy and command paste is a terribly hard to read weapon in the hands of the unskilled.
As someone who has not been at protests, I think OWS should use their considerable influence to support drug legalization and regulation. The social and economic benefits to this country (and in Mexico) will be widespread.
That is something radical yet doable that OWS can put their energy behind. Is that something you support? If not, what do you think OWS should do?
In a movement with no leadership, people will hear what that want to believe, and disregard the rest. In the end we will be left with exactly what we started with, but it will have been an entertaining rollercoaster of extreme positions without any real finite change, but for the bi-polar mood swings of a society. Our government has failed to work for so long, people have forgotten why we have it.
<Zamzoph> because of the belief that co-opt is bad
Says everything about the Ron Lawlers, Tea Partiers etc.
They think it's ok to infiltrate and co-opt a movement. The idea of presenting themselves on their own merits and letting the public decide what sort of solution they want from among a number of political choices, is beyond them. They are anti-democratic. Their way, by whatever sneaky methods, duplicity and deception they can think of. They'd like to take over OWS so that people, thinking it's about something else, will support it and therefore them, without knowing it.