Forum Post: My Response to the Zeitgeist Movements Leader Peter Joseph Merola's video to OWS and the world, from the skeptic project aka conspiracy science.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 19, 2011, 5:44 p.m. EST by 2012ct
(6)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Might want to read my Breakdown of Peter Joseph's video to OWS as well before you read this.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/break-down-and-response-to-the-zeitgeist-movements/
This is a video breakdown of Peters 9 minute video response to OWS response on youtube as well as my thoughts on Peter reinventing the Representative Democracy wheel on the global scale. Originally posted on skepticproject.com.
Peter Joseph: Message to Occupy Wall Street & The World | The Zeitgeist Movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
My response to Peter's video is that he's talking out of both ends. I can of imagine Peter jumped into this mindset that somehow he is all knowing and decided to graciously offer advice to OWS as because Peter is the only one who know the twoof and how to run a successful revolution. Even though Peter had really nothing to do with OWS and OWS formed after TZM did yet was able to accomplish it's goals within a few months. Yet Peter who I would define as delusional thinks he still has advice to offer to OWS? That in a way would be looked at as offense to individuals who started OWS and at best laughable.
Peter attempts to say he's with OWS and he's not stomping on their movement and then he in the video proceeds to stomp all over OWS ground and even plugs his TZM cult crap towards the end, spitting in OWS face by saying TZM is better and has a 1,000 chapters world wide (funny sometimes TZMers say they have 1,500 chaps, to even 2000 chap). As having 1,000 chapters (doubt it's even close to accurate number) is suppose to give Peter and his cult group some-type of clout.
When Peter refers to RBE as a RBEM (Resource based Economic Model) I started to laugh. This reminds me of the people who associate open source with a RBE. To say a RBEM, it would be suggesting that it's somewhat tangible and that their really is a working model. The problem being is that a RBE has no model so the added appendage Peter added doesn't make it true. I even went to google and googled a Resource based Economic Model and added such search appendages to RBEM such as zetgiestmovement.com and venusproject.com. What I found out is that no where on the venusproject.com website or the zeitgeistmovement.com website does it ever referred to a resource based economic as a model or even call it a RBEM (I could be wrong, if someone finds out otherwise post it up). I did find TZMers saying it's a model but not officially on both TVP and TZM mediums which shows the type of deception Peter is willing to go to push is communistic values system because of course he knows the answers and if he has to twist things up to get people to believe in his crap that's not based on science then so be it.
I had mention up top that Peter is reinventing the wheel and that Wheel is a Representative Democracy. When Peter gets into his parallel government crap he's basically taking a note from how the current way our representative Democracy works as of right now. He's not come up with something new he's basically made newly appointed leaders that supposedly will have clout in their region now. Peter fails to meet the goals of what OWS is about as OWS does not want to reinvent the wheel, OWS wants transparency, OWS wants a flat structure where everybody can contribute, and if their is structure it has to be justified (a little anarchistic value I suppose), and to get Washington hands away from the wall street among other problems.
To emphasize two important problems that Peter has failed to focus on when he talked about his very unoriginal idea; One would be the transitional plan is that he includes no transparency when reinventing the wheel of a Representative Democracy, and the second one would be he neglects what OWS wants which is Democracy in that all people will be involved therefore representatives would go against OWS cause in the first place. This shows Peter cares not about OWS and it's wanting of transparency, nor does he care about everybody's involvement in the process getting their ideas expressed in the Democratic process. He only really cares about restructuring the government that which Peter Joseph will have control and say over because after all Peter knows the twoof.
Peter Joseph is bat shit delusionally crazy. I can imagine if Peter doesn't get his way like everything else he will deem OWS a government funded group that's out to get him and his cult. I support TZMers as much as Democrats, tea party, Ron Pauls, Republicans, or anybody else to go out and occupy wall street or occupy whatever is nearby, but I do not support ideas not based on science such as a RBE, or just bat shit crazy ideas being pushed by a very delusional person.
CT2012 From http://skepticproject.com/
Original post Skepticproject.com http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/forum/4974/tzm-anarchists-propose-hijack-ows-and-install-a-new-governme/
To the administrators of this web site: please remove this post submitted from the skepticproject.com, by 2012ct.
It is not representative of the values of peace and fairness, as it attacks another human being, rather than calmly presenting objective data in disagreement with another's proposal.
While the original poster may feel real anger and frustration, such virulent posts cannot possibly further the OWS cause.
Thank you for considering my request.
You forget about freedom of speech? So your already trying to attempt to shut me up by deleting this message. Typical average Zeitgeister cult member attempt to be a suppressive person similar to Scientology cult SP. This topic doesn't start off saying "My Response" for nothing, it's my response if if you got a problem with it maybe you should learn to walk away, instead of shutting people up like what is the typical TZM SP standard.
Anyways I am talking about Peter Merola's ideas as well as how he may have came up with those ideas since he is so delusional his perception of reality becomes warped as well. a RBE is no science, it's like or better yet is a religion not based on anything.
First, I have never signed any agreement or spoken in assent of any promise to abide by the laws of the U.S. of A. Thus, I do not recognize your, or my, right to free speech.
Second, I've been "walking away" and "turning my other cheek" to ignorance and unreasoning hatred my entire life. I guess I've finally had my fill.
Finally, yes, I would actively strive to first restrain ANYONE who is unable to summon the self-control necessary to confine his/her actions and speech to that which does not harm any other sentient creature on this planet. If you like to think metaphorically, it's similar to what you'd do (I hope) if you discovered someone with a contagious dread disease (say, bubonic plague).
My second goal would be to attempt to reason with the individual (thus, this reply) to allow them to re-examine their behavior and to see that what they've done/said can rightly be construed as harm to another.
My next step will be based on your reply to this reply, if you choose to do so.
Fourthly I googled your name and it seems you only post in my topic and no where else which means your a sock puppet account that is a Zeitgeist cult movement member defending your cult leader Peter Joseph Merola.
You're attempting to use none violent communication as to reason with me. Although I respect your attempt I have to disagree with your use on it. I am of sound mind and body and I stand by what I wrote above. I think you need to rephrase what exactly you have a problem with what I wrote and I can give you a much better answer.
To go back to what you said. If OWS doesn't believe in the first amendment, it's this very amendment that keeps the police from bashing the tar out of all the protesters. I think you would be more respectful of it rather I see you spitting all over not just my first amendment right but to every protester including all occupy walls street protesters first amendment right as well. Maybe you can explain your reasoning better for your sudden advocating of denouncing the 1st amendment?
I can imagine that while you typed this, you had a butt plug up your ass and you kept punching yourself in the stomach. Doesn't make it so.
The members are not the movement
I'm also annoyed at the TZM overrun here. It's getting as bad as Ron Paul.
I agree but it's a good thing they only spam on the internet. TZM cult is a internet based group, that happened to contain and form the world veiws of Jared Lee Loughner.
I typed out a rundown of Peters 9 minute which is the longer version of James Kush video posted on youtube as well as my thoughts on Peter reinventing the Representative Democracy wheel on the global scale.
Peter Joseph: Message to Occupy Wall Street & The World | The Zeitgeist Movement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
I watched the whole 9 minute video Peter made on this and it doesn't at all fall in line with what OWS is all about. For the first half of this video, Peter basically borrowed concept already presented on the OWS website. This would include re-explaining why the media isn't paying attention to OWS or why the media is downplaying OWS, Police beat the tar out of peacefully protestors, re-explaining that you must get away from violent protesters if their around you, etc...
2/3rd's (3:30) into the video Peter talks about solution in which he starts off with that the video is to not to promote the Zeitgeist movement (around 3:58) yet after saying that he goes in to how technology can create "true sustainability" which is TZM rhetoric. He developed a added appendage to the Resource source based Economic shtick by adding 'Model' (4:29) at the end of RBE so now it's called a Resource Based Economic Model. Just because Peter calls it a model doesn't make it. A model requires that something has been built and has been proven, a RBE is not a model as it has not been even tested it's nothing but a Utopian fantasy land. Then after that even though Peter said this wasn't about TZM he yet again says that if TZM's views are accepted how exactly do we transition over to it.
Towards the end of Peter's boring rant Peter goes into what I would define as hilarity insanity. I couldn't stop laughing at how insane his idea is. Starting around 5:11 Peter suggest a transition, in which he borrows concepts from his movement hierarchal structure such as he suggest OWS to
'Unify into regional movements into a global entity through representatives' and to have meetings with representatives at which to reinforce global unity.
To keep or reform the current system or to basically remove it as a whole. Then to have a world occupy conference for which to get exposure from the media and where reform issues are presented as to push recognition by the political establishment and the public.
Then Peter talks more about TZM and it's reform process. (6:45) which he explains in depth. Peter comes up with a "parallel government" in which a new government is formed at this table of the representatives made up of OWS individuals of each region. Eventually suggesting this will form a global institution at which Peter suggest the current system will be going on and eventually fail. He rambles on for a bit that doesn't make sense around 7:40.
Peter plugs the Zeitgeist Movement even though he said he wouldn't plug it (look back at 3:58) (at around 7:22 he plugs TZM), as Peter also throws out big numbers that he has a 1,000 chapters in his TZM cult yet on the TZM website their isn't even close to 1,000 chapters it's a complete bogus number to make them seem bigger than what they are or basically he's lying.
First, I don't think it's "insane" at all. If you've read books like: "The Construction of Social Reality" by philosopher John Searle, you'll realise that our Social Reality is nothing more than an unspoken "collective agreement" on the way things work. The crucial point that he makes is that "Institutional Reality" has no foundation in "Physical Reality". All things that comprise our Social System are nothing but "institutions". The "strength" of an institution relies purely on mass "support/use" of that institution. For example, if we collectively agree overnight that money is nothing more than a worthless piece of paper (which it is), we'll be wiping our asses with it tomorrow. Hence the “Institution of Money” will vanish immediately and completely. That in itself will bring the current system to its knees.
Second, the concept of a “Resource Based Economy” is probably the most rational and logical proposal of an alternative system that I’ve ever come across! Is far from a utopia. Do you really have the scientific knowledge and a technical understanding of what we’re capable of doing technologically? Do some research on that and you’ll be amazed! Are you even aware that there are over 6000 patents that have been suppressed by the powers that be? This alone would become a technological revolution of its own if unleashed! This isn’t a “pipe dream”. What do you propose as an alternative that’s more rational and logical than a RBE?
Third, Peter isn’t trying to hi-jack the movement. He, like everyone else is the 99%! All he is trying to do is bring some more structure to the OWS movement by making personal “suggestions” on a hypothetical basis for how it might unfold. Given point one, it makes perfect sense. If we stop supporting the existing institutions, they WILL fade! So, to propose a “parallel government” is brilliant. By doing this, we’re basically saying that “we don’t recognise your authority any longer!” Remember, what you resist, persists! So the question is, a reform or a revolution? If the latter, then what replaces it?
Last but not least. The Zeitgeist Movement is NOT a cult! The movement is as far from a cult as you can get. We need to “think critically” and not be dismissive and critical without a basis. If you have personal reasons for not “liking” the movement, that’s fine, but don’t criticise and dismiss without doing some homework. I wish you all the best and hope that sanity prevails.