Forum Post: Multiculturalism is a complete failure.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 7, 2011, 2:07 a.m. EST by DemocratPRO
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I am thinking multiculturalism is a failure now. Nothing good came from it. All it did was demoralize a country. Now we got future inventors, business owners, etc... All being suppress from dealing with there neighborhood ethnic gang members killing and stuff.
Obama said America needs to be more innovating, but how can you when you spend most of your time just trying to protect your family from gang members trying to break in your house or rob and kill you when your outside.
Democrats and Republicans push it to far. Now deal with a fading dying country.
America is multicultural -- always has been, and always will be.
Crack smoker. Up until very recently, people who came from other cultures assimilated by "Americanizing" their names. A symbolic gesture really, but behind it came with lots of pressure to conform to American culture.
America has always been racially, ethnically, religiously, and culturally diverse. I do not recognize any race, ethnicity, religion, or subculture as "the American culture"; America has always been multicultural, and it always will be.
I do not smoke crack.
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Why would I want to say that?
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You have been watching way too much television. Put the remote down and step away from the television. You know there is a stronger chance you may get hit by a motor vehicle than getting robbed. Wow, I'm safer in the ghetto than I am behind the wheel. Is it not great being working class and not having perpetual fear. I don't envy fearful people one bit.
842 deaths in Phoenix caused by motor vehicles http://www.azdot.gov/mvd/statistics/crash/PDF/08crashfacts.pdf
300 kidnappings and home invasions in 2008. http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2011/01/26/20110126phoenix-crime-stats-federal-audit.html
these statistics are for 2008, and the reason I chose them was because they were so high that the FED did an investigation to ensure there was no state fraud.
You may be safer in the ghetto if you are of the same ethnicity as the majority of the inhabitants of that ghetto, but if you're not, then your chances of being victimized will most probably rise substantially.
Your ignorance and preconceive notions about the ghetto has me lost for words. your inability to see the ghettos as a economic problem and not a racial problem has me flabbergasted.
Clearly ghettos are economic problems, but having lived in one some years back and having observed via national news stories, the happenings in others, I can definitely tell you that racial problems are very much present in them..
maybe for the children who live there, but once you grow up together, childish thoughts go to the way side.
In agreement 100%.
Well, since neighborhoods are largely segregated, rarely multicultural, I question your "plight". If you lived in my neighborhood or sphere and study our nation's history you would see that multiculturalism is this nation's greatest asset. And, if you take it further, you'd see that the perpetuation of racism down below has kept us all enslaved and that our bosses have benefited tremendously from the hatred they promote. Since you do indeed seem to work on behalf of the bosses i thought that you may appreciate that fact.
The reason multiculturalism is a failure, if it is, is because parents are still the primary source of a young child's multicultural knowledge. Few (especially white) parents talk to their kids honestly and openly about race or ethnicity. When they do, they talk in generalities that young kids do not understand such as, "Everybody is equal, we must embrace diversity". Parents, in general, don't acknowledge skin color or just tell their kids, "Pretty much everybody is sane and pleasant, but there are some people who are very mean or rude or just unpleasant to be around. They can be white or black or brown or any other color of skin on Earth, you never know who the crazies are by looking at them."
When left to their own devices, children will notice skin color and it makes a big impression of "different" on them. They wonder why their parents don't talk about it and might ask about it, but when they're told, "everybody is equal" that doesn't really answer their questions about how people are born with a certain color of skin, if they are indeed born that way, and what that means in our society,
I didn't just make this up, somebody somewhere studied this topic and I read about it in a magazine at a doctor's office. Newsweek maybe,
i think it's all about how we treat/respect each other. america was built on multiculturalism, after all. going backwards (i dont know what you propose) will only increase ignorance. the problem has been a lack of vision, zero implementation and the assumption wd wk cos it seemed like a gd idea. a starting point wd be to explore why some people hate/mistrust others cos they are different. why not check out a book called "the toucan feather" on a website tocamu.com that's about this stuff?
You are confused. "Multiculturalism" has little to do with "race". A global White, Black, Yellow or Brown Culture does not exist. What does exist are groups of people living in various areas that share similar customs and standards. For example a White American from Kansas has far more in common with a Black American from Kansas than they would with a White Russian from Moscow.
Grouping people, or separating them based on a physical trait as simple as skin color is pointless. Why not weight, height, finger length or toe smell? Would make about as much sense.
Economic disparity leads to mistrust and crime, not diversity.
Most of my friends are minorities and have been since I was a kid. I grew up in a diverse community, and now live in one of the most diverse neighborhoods in the country. I think multiculturalism sounds great, but only works in theory.
You are probably correct about multiculturalism but maybe not for the specific reasons you cite. I wish to avoid a lengthy discussion as such is generally considered an anathema to most. However I will offer two examples why multiculturalism will not work in the short to medium term*. If you recall from the O. J. trial, the prosecutors used the escalating violence as a premise for their case. According to the media and even the jurors themselves, the black community does not believe in this theory. They maintain, for example, that an assault on a woman does not necessarily lead to murder. From this argument, what is one to conclude except that the black jurors obviously speak from experience. So, I ask, how can a legal system expect justice between an inter-racial couple, such as O. J. and Nicole, when their respective ethnic cultures differ on a salient psychological understanding?
My last example of the hazards of multiculturalism will be evident with this very post. Watch as someone will undoubtedly reference me as racist for simply posting this argument, despite the fact that AG Eric Holder challenged Americans to do this very thing.
Someone on one OWS forum argued that correlations are not causes. Well, if you see a ball always falling from a building, would you not be convinced that the ball's fall had some relevance to gravity? If you did, you would be in the company of the great physicist Isaac Newton. No, correlations are causes but they are manifestations of the cause. You end your post with "now deal with a fading dying country." Well, is it not interesting how the rise of multiculturalism correlates with your conclusion?
*Everything works in the long-term because the long-term is about the species, the surviving species, whatever that may be.
If you see society as a living organism then evolution has taken its course. Now the country must adapt or perish. Multicululturalism works. We just have to find a way to do it...
Perhaps one should list the successful countries where multiculturalism has worked. If I recall from my history lessons, one of the chief reasons the Roman Empire ultimately failed was because too many outsiders with greatly different customs from the inhabitants of the empire proper entered and this ultimately led to a fractured state.
Not true. The Roman civilization failed because after there was no land left to take and no goals left to pursue, the Romans fell into a state of complacency, and eventually that turned to apathy, which resulted in a populace that thrived on Sex, Violence, and had a complete lack of motivation or goals. I will agree that the fact that they were spread to thin and had conquered to many peoples to keep control of, did contribute to their downfall, it was the indolence and sloth of the Roman people themselves, along with the increased raids from the Northern Germanic tribes that led to the downfall of the Roman Empire.
I have grown up in mulitculturism, and I don't know if it is that or my own moral values, that have allowed me to see our world as one without color, but I do none the less.
The problem IMHO isn't multi-culturalism, or having many cultures in one small area..... We aren't jobless because roving gangs are too violent to conduct business...... From what I read of your post (Please correct me if Im wrong), but if you think thats the reason, you're out of touch with reality. I hate CNN, but even CNN can disabuse of this notion...... Further, eating Taco Bell is all the proof you need of working multi-culturalism (Though a really piss poor example)...... I think you've got the wrong culprit for the situation....
The greater problem seems to be the Globalization of the economy, IMHO anyway. The problem isn't that Mexicans or African Americans, or KKK, or who ever you care to name inside our borders are stealing our jobs or keeping people from hiring..... The problem is our jobs are moving to China, Philippines, Thailand, Korea, India, and some former Eastern block nations..... Our money is going with it through the Corporations that are now paying third world workers rather then American workers, as is our resources (Were now Importing steel, made from iron mined in the US [as well as iron mined elsewhere], in THE NATION that was originally Founded on steel?? How idiotic is this?).
Have to disagree. Many of the foreigners coming to the United States are WILLING to work for terrible pay scales and in poor conditions and this is what makes it bad for everyone else. It all gets down to QUALITY OF LIFE issues and this is why it is so important to have secure borders. The elites know that as long as they can import replacement workers, the rest of the population can be marginalized. Many people aren't aware of this, but Cesar Chavez was against illegal immigration for this very reason because he knew it would make things tougher for people already here.
Also many of those global corporations from here now operating in Southeast Asia and in China are now returning to the states. Why? Because the people over there, particularly in China, are no longer content to work for slave wages.
There are many layers to globalization that need to be addressed to fully grasp the complexities of that issue. Unions are a big reason why a lot of corporations leave the united states for starters...
I'd say high tax rates both at the federal and state levels are more of a factor than unions. The current federal corporate tax rate is around 40%. States like California have a 10% corporate tax rate on top of that. Then you throw into the mix, Workmen's Comp, Health Insurance, safety requirments etc. etc. At some point, it just becomes too expensive for corporations to do business here.
That may be true... however I don't know much about taxes or tax law but what about all these loop holes that corporations have. Not to mention the private individuals that can pay themselves....I know through a proceeds that requires a vote...exuberant salaries... they have plenty tax loop holes to hidey hole all that. I guess it comes to social responsibility of taking that wealth to create more wealth by providing new jobs instead of sitting on it...
Agree with you someguy. When companies like GE don't have to pay ANY taxes something is seriously wrong. And if the top 1% want their continued tax cuts, then they should be required to invest back in the economy/infrastructure . . . and I don't count buying a yacht as sufficient investment.
Thank you...! Especially about the yacht.
I did not realize the gang problem had reached the magnitude suggested by your post. What part do you think that OWS will play in helping eradicate the gang problem?
If you see society as a living organism then evolution has taken its course. Now the country must adapt or perish. Multicululturalism works. We just have to find a way to do it...
"Multicululturalism works. We just have to find a way to do it..."
Uh,...wait,.WHAT?? How do you know if you're still looking for a way to do it?
It really is a matter of faith in humanity isn't it? Are you looking for ways to bring people together? Some common thread? B/c im sure if you spoke to these people on wall street, hell anybody that says 'any form if egalitarianism is socialism' are people that lack faith in humanity taking care of itself...its time to grow up and stop thinking of only ourselves. The world cannot sustain 6 billion wanna be millionaires. Literally or psychologically...
I think you make a good deal of my own points.
You could start by making us one instead of many. And forgetting the "multi" entirely.
Yes!
'One people' yes there is a truth to that... just how do we get everyone, in this country at least to forgive past transgressions on move forward. We need a new national vision to unite us all together. Albeit the 99 percent thing has potential... we are still leaving out the one percent... they are our country men too. We cannot forget that.
Yes, why don't we just invite the 1%, hold hands with them and sing Kumbayah. : (
The problem with your statement is that the "new national vision" does not exist; it's just an old national vision continuously reemphasized. It didn't really work forty years ago and it's not really working now, because it's a lie.
What we need is a greater understanding of ourselves, as a new means of assessing the world, viewing the world... that's another story in itself and its rather long, but...
We don't own these "past transgressions"; we were not responsible and either were our ancestors - they were the product of English corporatism as a direct extension of the Crown; more, African slavery had been in existence for at least a thousand years... introduced to the Portuguese in 1453, it was already 200 years old by the time it reached North America. BUT... we do own the attempt at solution; that belongs to us.
I think that our view of colonial history has been entirely skewed by the focus on slavery as a result of the Civil War. It's skewed in the sense that our attention is drawn to it; we are therefore too narrowly focused and what it creates is an incomplete vision.
So we need a greater and much more honest understanding of ourselves, on the level of human desire... and we need to start presenting a much more accurate vision of the past as a means of assessing the cultural mindset of who we are....
Time limited here... and I know I am not saying this very well; the solution is hundreds of pages long.
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I agree with your statement. But let me ask u a question. What do you think it means to be an american today? And I don't think the solution is a hundred of pages long I don't think. Perhaps we need to redefine what it means to be american first before we can create a new national vision... I don't know. I appreciate your comment though.
You know the ironic thing is that many foreigners who come here don't buy into this melting pot nonsense. Here in Southern California, the Koreans even have their own business yellow pages. And there are hispanic and black chambers of commerce throughout the country. That alone should tell you something. You've been fed a line of bull by the powers that be about all this assimilation. The fact is that MOST people naturally want to be among their own kind. There is nothing racist about this statement either. It is just nature at work. If you go to the zoo, do you see the lions mixing with the tigers, or the giraffes with the rhinos? No, they hang out with their own kind.
Of course, you may get the occasional lion who looks to hook up with a tiger on the side. ; )
Love it... Haha! Dare I say proletarian and a bourgieous.... sitting in a tree....
I don't see the cultural mindset as a static thing... or even a generational thing... it's a living document that is being rewritten as we speak. This is long story, a huge story, that goes the the very heart of what identity is, how we choose to define it, and why... but ok, I'll bite:
If we are to be possessed of any particular "sophia" (which is not really the word I'm looking for) then let it be this: that none here shall ever be the oppressed. This ideal is symbolized in our flag, our national mottos, and our Constitution as perpetual. If you substantially delineate from this path, people will suffer. And that's a fact that goes to the very core of human desire, i.e., what it means to be human.
Now if we can't oils only get people to actually believe that and live it.... perhaps there is a way outta this mess we find ourselves in.
Britain has already admitted it is a failure.
So did Germany recently.
There is your ancestry and then there is the unique American culture. Two different things.
Yep. The United States inherent culture has been under attack by liberals and socialists for decades. Diversity is a crock of shit.
Oh so your a Native American. What tribe? Native American culture was more socialist (Helping each other, living in balance with nature, etc..) than capitalistic (pillaging, plundering the environment, exploiting people).
Scalping is so romantic.
I'm a native Americam too. I was born here.
JohnnyO seems to think that only "white republicans who are afraid of everyone else" a real Americans.
Not all republicans are caucasion.
true, and I don't believe all republicans are racists either. it is just that they are the portion of the republican party that makes the most noise and makes every one else look bad. the same can be said about democrats, except democrats get off on topics other than anti-multiculturalism and don't blame minorities for all of societies ills.
If multiculturalism is a failure, does this mean we should view the whole history of America as a failure?
It seems to be working pretty nicely in Montréal. Of course, we don't have guns and don't go around shooting each other like Americans.
No, people just get decapitated on buses. Do not pretend that violence here is a result of our gun laws, and that you can stand on your soapbox, because you don't have the ability to protect yourself and your property, and that makes you feel superior. I love Canada, and have been there and enjoyed the beautiful country you guys have, and I also enjoyed many of the people who were very kind and respectful, but some of the ideas I have seen posted here by Canadians are nonsensical, and are sound an awful lot like talking down about our country. I would just remind you that all of your social programs, that I believe are abject failure, are a direct result of the United States, as a matter of fact we have funded Europe's as well as Canada's social programs just by virtue of being the United States. I don't go out of my way to down your country, and so I would appreciate it if you would stop going out of yours to insult mine.
I think that should be singular. lol! But yeah, there is violence everywhere.
Don't be so touchy. It's important to be able to handle criticism. And, what's the point of being so nationalistic? I'm from Canada, but I didn't have much to do with creating the country. If anyone has anything bad to say about it, I'm fine with that. I'm an individual in the world. I don't feel attacked if you attack my country (verbally of course, please don't send your army).
In any case, your taxes helped run your economy that in turn helped Michael Moore create a film which taught me that one of the major problems in US was the amount of guns in the street. I was just passing along an argument made by an American. It's made in America. Don't worry.
BTW - Thanks for helping create our healthcare system. I got injured a few years back and was happy to be able to get an operation for free. I thank all Americans for that. I don't have much money, so it would have been hard for me to pay. Again, thanks brother.
As for my property, I never felt the need to protect it with a gun. It just hasn't come up. And, it didn't come up with my parents, and anyone else I know. Do you often have to protect your property with a gun? I never even touched a gun, and barely ever saw one.
I am not touchy I just don't appreciate people making comments that are felacious or at least miss the point. Violence exists everywhere and guns have nothing to do with violence, considering they can't float around and shoot people themselves. Michael Moore is a liar and a hypocrite so I wouldn't put much stock in anything he says, and if you don't believe me just look at his reaction whenever he has been accused of being in the 1 percent, which has happened multiple times since this OWS protest has started. He makes movies that play on people's emotions, and while they are emotionally succeptible he slips his nonsensical logic in. He made a bunch of money off of these movies, and wants to pretend like he didn't, because that would ruin his I speak for the common man credibility. Really a lot about this movement is hypocritical, but that is another topic for another day. None the less you are entitled to your opinion, and I can respect that as one human being to another, and we will just leave it at that.
Felacious? When did I ever talk about felatio? Sorry buddy, but you're barking up the wrong tree. My rod parks in my wife's pod. Period.
As for guns not inciting violence, we will have to agree to disagree. As for Mr. Moore, we can agree to agree. As for felatio, I would rather we drop the subject as soon as possible.
No more late night typing after this, and you caught me in a misspelling, and made a good joke of it, and I am a good sport so it gave me a good laugh. Fallacious is what I meant, but if you think Moore is a fraud you can't be half bad.
I like your sense of humor. Have a good night.
Right back at you. And I will try not to virtually harass you anymore.
You have victim written all over your face. I own 28 guns. And I'm a democrat btw.
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Multiculturalism is part of a divide and conquer strategy promoted as a good thing. THE *S did this to get ahead and not be noticed while they were perpetrating the crimes that got us to where we are today.
Multiculturalism will work after we screw the diversity out of each other or stop allowing our leaders to divide us based on our differences.
Agreed.
Actually, multiculturalism is a method for people to see behind the curtain. Once we discern the lack of differences between ethnicities, we are able to see what is truly destroying our cities.
Multiculturalism is supportive of the cultures and people. Gangs have many causes, but racism that marginalizes a culture is one. Economic disparity is another, which also has ties to racism. Social outcasting is yet one more, which again ties to racism.
It all boils down to mutual respect.
Cultures are merely what individuals live in, it's not the individual him/herself.
The gangs you speak of are not the result of culture, they are the result of lack of culture or better yet, the refusal of a culture already in place.
Americans are innovators, a great many ideas are worked on by millions who can move a concept intellectually, yet lack resources or access to resources to bring the concept to fruitation.
While I may not have lived in a ghetto, I did spend time in them as a transient...as an owner operator (trucker owning his/her own truck and trailer) I was often sent into areas that were 'less than desirable' often at night. While others had problems in these areas, I did not. I spoke with the people who wandered the streets, I treated them as worthy of my time and my efforts at communication.
The issues in these ghettos are not new, they have been developing over decades...the people who live in them are also frustrated and feel that they are unheard, unnoticed. So they take action which is counter to that which they wish to achieve...believing it is their only option.
I didnt say they were the result of culture, i said cultures that are marginalized due to racism is a factor among others. Gangs provide a sense of identity, belonging and security to the members, and they seek it because the larger culture does not provide these things for them. Other than that, i dont disagree with your points...
I apologize if my words made you think that I was implying you said anything about cultures being the result of anything, I was merely saying that cultures are what individuals live in...
The beauty of multi-cultures is that individuals can choose to adopt from each to, perhaps, create a melded whole.
Communication is difficult, but engaging helps, so thank you for taking the time for us to iron it out!
The more we practice the better we'll be at it.