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Forum Post: More Hope & Change !!!!!!!!!

Posted 2 years ago on June 1, 2012, 8:38 a.m. EST by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Unemployment moves up from 8.1% to 8.2%.

Thanks, you economically illiterate donkeys.

37 Comments

37 Comments


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[-] 4 points by AlternativeSynergy (224) 2 years ago

Economically illiterate? So I suppose you subscribe to supply side economics where redistributing income to the top will help the average Joe six-pack whose wages have been stagnate for 30 years. Demand side economics is the key, more money in the hands of the working and middle class is the key. Unemployment is high because we are still practicing supply side economics.

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

I think this is a misnomer. Should we really seek to enhance demand? I mean, we've been a consumer economy for decades. Bush cut taxes (on both upper earners & the middle class), but income hasn't been enough to sustain our appetite for stuff, so we created exceedingly complex lending devices to sustain our unbridled consumerism, and look where all this has landed us?

A restatement of Say's law: supply creates it's own demand. But the problem with supply side economics isn't really its basic intent, but rather, it doesn't actually achieve its objectives (so according to its own benchmark, it's ineffective).

We've had both supply side and demand side policies for the better part of the last 30 years, and while demand has certainly increased, domestic production ("supply") has gone in the other direction. The reasoning is simple enough. Stimulating investment does not guarantee that the investment will happen in our domestic economy.

[-] 3 points by AlternativeSynergy (224) 2 years ago

We really don’t have much choice but to try to increase aggregate demand in the face of high unemployment. In capitalism what is the alternative? Consumer spending accounts for 70 percent of the economy. What we need is a healthy mix of saving and spending. Too much of one and the economy contracts, too much of the other and we have runaway inflation.

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

I disagree with this, but I understand your reasoning. However, imagine if we spent stimulus funds on grants/loans to expand domestic manufacturing? Over 40,000 factories have closed since 2000, with job losses totaling over 5 million (not including the manufacturing multiplier). Or what about modernizing our electrical grid, and in the process, doing something like what Portugal did (the Portuguese today get about half of their electricity from alternative energy sources). When's the last time we significantly expanded our state university systems (obviously we haven't kept pace with demand, which is a major reason for the runaway inflation in education costs).

We also need a value added tax so our manufacturers aren't forced to operate at such a severe disadvantage (and this is permissible under WTO rules).

[-] 3 points by AlternativeSynergy (224) 2 years ago

Part of the problem I believe is that people are realizing that they can get by with less, and more importantly employers are becoming more efficient and getting by with hiring less workers. Unfortunately this doesn’t bode well for how our economy is currently structured. We need to spend more on infrastructure, convert to a green sustainable economy with less emphasis on consumption. But we still need full employment. I see more artists, teachers, space programs, high speed trains, vacations, entertainment and non-commodity consuming services in our future. Not exactly sure how we are going to get there though.

[-] 0 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

In capitalism, you take your hands off the steering wheel. That means you DON'T endlessly print money to buy schit and pay salaries that you don't need to. You let the consumer decide. We have very little savings as compared to the rest of the world. You DON'T try to increase aggregate demand because people are broke. They don't need another TV, iPod or buy another Starbucks Latte if they can't afford it.

Stop artificially subsidizing people's wants. If they want it, they can work for it. Stop signing people up to ponzi schemes like social security, which earns NO interest, gives out gobs of money in SSDI and expects the next generation to keep paying for the present generation when the numbers clearly don't work. Schit, you libs don't even believe in Social Security or you wouldn't be supporting the "payroll tax holiday" and defunding it through the back door.

Stop robbing Peter to pay Paul for votes, as in Obama defunding Medicare by $500 billion and giving the money to Obamacare. That's disingenious, especially when you leftists invented entitlements like medicare.

Stop keeping interest rates artificially low so our government can keep spending and printing more. The whole world is taking notice at the bad macroeconomic policies of the left.

Stop demanding green energy when its umpteen times more expensive than what everyone else is doing in the world. Stop putting the USA at a disadvantage to every other country in manufacturing and then bitch about outsourcing. YOU idiots are causing it.

Stop artificially setting wage prices when we have to compete in a global economy.

NO, WE REALLY DO HAVE A CHOICE. STOP DOING STUPID THINGS. STOP CENTRAL PLANNING.

[-] 3 points by AlternativeSynergy (224) 2 years ago

You still can’t grasp what the problem is. It is not a lack of capitalism, it is not over-regulation. It is wages. What do you think the whole 99 percent movement is about? Ever since the mid 70’s when corporate America decided to organize in retaliation to Johnson and Nixon’s war on poverty, unions were busted and the tax code was turned upside down to shower riches on the 1 percent. Pre 70’s wealth was being redistributed down, now it is being redistributed up. The only reason we didn’t feel much pain until now is because we were riding a series of speculative bubbles and that borrowed money trickled down on to the working and middle class. Now that the last (housing) bubble has burst we can feel the harsh reality of what 30 years of right wing redistributionist policy has done our country.

[-] -1 points by Krowell (-69) 2 years ago

Wages have been declining worldwide, not just in the US. The issue has been the advent of cheap labor in China and an increase in productivity. All labor globally will have to reinvent itself for the future. The only impact supply side economics had on this was it opened up China and increased productivity.

The 70's were a disaster for the country as three straight presidents and two Fed chairman bought off government control. Do you forget price controls or WIN.

Why would we want more high speed trains or artist or space programs or teachers?

[-] -1 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

Um, the federal register is over 80,000 pages. If you don't grasp that over-regulation is killing us, you've been asleep.

The 1%, 5%, 10% and 20% pay a helluva lot more in taxes than the bottom 50%. Hell, the bottom 50% only pay 3% of the total income taxes. And, 70% of our total federal budget is transfer payments.

If we get any more progressive, we're gonna tip over. Wake the hell up.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Your theories, if you can accept such unbridled hogwash as theories, are entirely based on misconceptions. Social Security is not a ponzi scheme, it's a federal insurance program paid for by workers and employers. It and Medicare are administered by trustees. The latest interest return on the safe investments was a little over 3%.

The president and Congress, including the GOP-controlled House, have authorized the reduction in employee deductions. I agree such a reduction in insurance premiums was totally unwarranted but used by politicians to indicate they had cut taxes, when in fact they cut insurance premiums paid by the workers.

The health care bill is an abomination and should never have been passed without a public option. Medicare, like Social Security, is a federally funded insurance program, which is why the two are often listed as FICA deductions. FICA stands for Federal Insurance Contributions Act. So, realistically, Medicare is not an entitlement, in the pejorative sense of the word, but insurance.

The rest of your economic nonsense doesn't deserve a reply. Supply-side economics has not worked since 1979, and it didn't work before 1929. Both times the introduction of trickle-down economics resulted in severe economic downturns.

[-] -2 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

Of course it's a ponzi scheme. First in first out no interest bearing fund that makes no interest and depends on confiscating the wages of present workers even though it won't be there for the next generation. It makes ZERO interest.

Medicare is an entitlement. Social Security is an entitlement. Both are going broke thanks to FDR and LBJ.

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/chart-graph/long-term-social-security-and-medicare-deficits

[-] 5 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Instead of believing the fiction from the intellectually crippled right-wing pundits, you should actually go to the source to discover what you're talking about. The Social Security and Medicare funds do earn interest; last year the combined fund earned 4.401%. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html

I know this may be asking too much of a you, but bother to learn how insurance works. You will find that the trustees of the combined Social Security funds administer the funds as any prudent insurance company would.

Now, I realize why so many right-wing mouthpieces insist on cutting education; they don't want their followers to actually learn how to read and research.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

actually everyone is right here, first it is an insurance program that workers and employers pay for. But is a ponzi scheme in so much that mathimatically it's upside down like an upside down pyramid scheme. But unlike most schemes this was not a scam by a crook

It became a consequence of too many retirees living too long and producing less children too pay for social security. you can't blame the government because americans stopped fucking and multiply.

[-] 3 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I can call the sky red; that doesn't make it so.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment practice. It begins as a fraudulent activity and ends that way

Social Security has never been fraudulent. As boomers retire, it may become an insurance with financial difficulty, but that would be the most of it.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

still an upside down pyramid

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26864) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Red sky at night - sailors delight.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

I'll put out three sheets to the wind at Lake Mead and look for the red sky.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26864) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If you are gonna be three sheets to the wind - I want you wearing a life preserver. Even if your sitting on the dock. {:-])

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Well, maybe a sheet and a half. Over 100 here today--good for Foster's oil cans.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26864) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The frosties slide nice and fast in the Heat. Lets be careful out there.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

I know it's all the gay people in this country not producing more off spring. an even better reason to stop gay marriage

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[-] -1 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

Strike everything after "So I suppose..."

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

peacup, if u stop being a "groupie" for a minute... u might find that both sides are screwed up .... http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/mostcorrupt

and Unemployment is closer to 25% btw

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I thought the private sector is supposed to be responsible for job creation?

Where are the job creators?

Where are the jobs from the Republican JOBS Act?

[-] 0 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago
[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26864) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Penalize outsourcing. Rework the free trade agreements to support the economy not let it destroy the economy.

[-] -1 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

How about instead of penalizing outsourcing, ENCOURAGE insourcing.

That means stop regulating and taxing the schit out of everyone to the point where they want to leave in the first place? Make your business environment a place where companies WANT to do business. What a novel idea, huh?

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Who is getting the shit taxed out of them? Give me some details about this 'taxing the shit out of everyone' notion of yours. Some details about US corp tax rates compared to other OECD countries perhaps. How about personal tax rates. What was the top marginal tax rate in 1940, 1960, 1980 v today. Let's see some numbers. Show me where the government is 'taxing the shit out of everyone'.

[-] -1 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

OK, you asked for it..

OECD: The US Officially Has Highest Corporate Tax Rate In The World

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-04-02/markets/31273366_1_oecd-corporate-tax-rate-percentage-points#ixzz1waFurTND

With Japan dropping their corporate tax rate to 38% on Sunday, America now leads the world in corporate tax rate at 39.2% reports the OECD.

While most nations have seen their rates steadily decline over the past 20 years, America has had a relatively stagnant rate. As Taxfoundation.com cites, there have been 133 major corporate tax rate cuts globally since 2006. Meanwhile, America's continues to remain close to 40% as it has since the late 1980's.

From the Taxfoundation.com:

Currently, the U.S. corporate rate is more than 50 percent higher than the simple average of the 33 other member nations in the OECD. And, our rate is roughly ten percentage points higher than the weighted average of OECD nations.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/countdown-over-were-1

[-] 3 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Don't get all hysterical peapup. On a weighted average basis, the US is in line with other OECD nations and even the top 15 largest economies. The US is within the average. No where near the 50% higher tax rate you site.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201205010008

Weighted average effective corp tax rates 2005-2009, US 23% v 6 other large countries 24.5% (Can, France, Germany, Japan, UK, India). A 6% difference. I realize this is a little dated. But it isn't anywhere near your 'the sky is falling' post. 6 or 10% higher - this is 'taxing the shit out of everyone'? Hardly reason for hysterics.

How about those personal income tax rates. Got some more hysterics to show me how the government is 'taxing the shit out of everyone'. Millionaires have what? An effective tax rate of 15-20%? Show me how the government is taxing the shit out them.

[-] -3 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

Weighted? By that evil 1% George Soros Mediamatters propaganda outlet?

Haha. You really are a drone. March on!

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

The Republicans are just as dumb.

Jack Asses All Around.

[-] 1 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

Well, we wanted change but I never thought it would be just pocket change.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Dont act like this is a purely Democratic problem. This is two parties are completely inept at leading. Just go turn on CSPAN and look at em. A bunch of clowns, yesmen parading around.

And the people seem to think that choosing "reps" from the same two parties for the 100th time in a row is a good idea.

Choosing from a bunch of rich assholes that dont like you is not going to make the country better. They dont care what happens on mainst because they dont live there. The perks of playing the game are much better than the perks of putting one's self out there, because the people will believe any smear campaign they see on the TV.

Its a mess, and both parties, the Fed and the people of the USA are all to blame. Who gets slighty more depends on what you value.

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[-] 0 points by DoubleVoice (115) 2 years ago

Just more Republishit used to distract from Romney's TERRIBLE jobs record at Bain and as governor of Massachusetts. How much did the unemployment rate increase while Romney was leader there?

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[-] -2 points by peacup (-44) from Murray, KY 2 years ago

How did the unemployment rate increase while the Barackster is here ??????????

Green shoots or shovel ready? You pick.

[-] 0 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

pathetic partisan pony rides again. BOTH the GOP and the DEMS are the two hands of the military/corporate/banksters,. both the left (middle right!) and right (far far right) hands are controlled by the one 1% 'party'.