Forum Post: Montana Bill Would Let Sheriffs Arrest FBI Agents for Arresting People
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 24, 2013, 5:20 p.m. EST by GirlFriday
(17435)
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Pffftttt....
Constitutionally, Marbut and his sheriff allies are on shaky ground
Oh, I would say so. Fire these people for wasting tax payer's time and money. Fire every one of them.
Gee - do you think marbut is in the same party as joe arpaio?
I wonder
"wasting taxpayer time and money" - A HUGE ISSUE
brilliantly managed by that party for decades
abortion, gay rights, vote suppression, women's rights, planned parenthood, flag burning, balanced budget amendment, blocking executive appointments
are all so much more important than
the environment, military cuts, education, tax reform, election reform, the economy, jobs, energy policy.
Note that virtually all of the issues "they" waste government time -
cost nothing.
Most of the "real" issues cost money & require more taxes
Oh, you know............l will reiterate this. Anytime that a Democrat takes center stage to say anything remotely close to we are going to take all of your guns away they amp up the propaganda for the benefit of reelection. They can't do it. There are Democrats that are really moderate republicans and many of them are all about some of those very same issues when it is time to cash out or in for reelection.
I'm pretty sure that Arpaio is in his very own party. The Joe party. It's all about him. There is no reason why that man should not be in prison but guess what didn't happen? And you know what? There was opportunity.
Would be quite a show if they ever tried to enforce it.
Gotta wonder if people in state government are worried that they will be arrested or something - Hey?
An expensive show to do something that from the get go is unconsitutional. And these people were elected. Really. SMH.
Just shows ta go ya - what kind of idiots can be elected to office.
I guess. I just find it jaw dropping.
There is a major social illness spreading across this country ( as well as around the world ) - I do believe we have only seen the very slightest little bit of bizarre that will be happening - prior to any fixing of government and business.
Oh, it's a major illness alright. We should have the names of all of those that supported that. Give them their little 15 minutes of fame and tell them to hit the road.
DAMN STRAIGHT
State and Federal Assholes - out em for what they support and for what they do not support.
Amen.
Our way forward - through awareness and action of the people.
Or how serious even the police are from ever allowing some things to become the country they stand for. That should be clear message for the ibf
Now you have me reading the Billings Gazette.
At least they won't be shooting it out in their senate.........yet.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/montana-bill-to-allow-heat-packing-lawmakers-rejected/article_86726f3c-5eb5-5e34-bcbd-f03217f60bb8.html
Tanks. I just ran a search on Verdell Johnson and hit an interesting blog.
http://mtcowgirl.com/tag/verdell-jackson/
Thank you too.
She's restored my faith in cowgirls.
She keeps an eye on ALEC.
Verdell Jackson Tea Partier AND Koch head.
http://www.bozeman-magpie.com/perspective-full-article.php?article_id=582
Someone should have told them.
We import our tea. Even in big sky country.
Verdell sounds like a piece of work.
Ya. She kind of made it lots easier.
Industrialization has replaced human labor
people must work anyways to pay rent and debt
And?
make up the job
but only if you have money
Silly Montana, now one of their (R)s wants to give corporations full voting privileges.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/02/23/not-a-joke-or-a-protest-this-lawmaker-actually-wants-to-grant-corporations-the-vote/
Is this another one of those "joke" bills the (R)epelican'ts are notorious for.
Somehow, I think he's serious.
Uh.....ya. That's another jaw dropping "joke bill" . ALEC in all of it's glory.
The biggest "joke" about ALEC, is that they are still getting over on the public.
There is no joke and the majority of Americans are aware. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much bullshit going on here.
I'll start asking around, but I think you are wrong.
Most Americans are unaware of what ALEC is, what it's done and how long it's been at it.
Let alone it's anti democratic roots.
You could be right. Mayhap I am spending too much time hanging out with people that already know about ALEC.
Most of the uninitiated I speak to about ALEC, tend to get a glazed look in their eyes.
The reality of ALEC is a LOT to take in all at once.
The reality of ALEC is a LOT to take in all at once.
Yes, yes it is.
Insidious it is.
Is that Yoda? lol. Ok, I'll be back in a bit.
:-) yeah lol - be missing you till you return.
Truth.
We know about it because it has been discussed here. People we know - know about it mostly because we clued them in. The average person has not heard of ALEC yet. But the word is spreading slowly over the internet and sometimes gets a notice even on some broadcast news programs now.
The word is spreading far too slowly.
I call for a repeal of ALL ALEC sponsored and written legislation.
Slow but steady. I can tell you I pass on stuff you post frequently on the street, & through (my wife & daughters) social media accts.
Your stuff is frequently worthy.
Well done.
People support Move To Amend. It is a good and necessary step in the proper direction. Then also support movements to shut down such obscenities as ALEC. Spread the word.
But that might require elected officials at all levels to actually read. Something they can't manage to do at a mere 8 pages.
I thought they had hirelings to explain what they are doing to them......:)
Most would seem to be moonlighting from their jobs at ALEC.
In theory, these people are hired to do more than delegate.
That's a theory that could use some stringent lab conditions to prove..........:)
Can we isolate a few of them real soon?
Teabagge(R)s and ALEC members first?
[-] 1 points by shooz (16907) 5 minutes ago I kinda feel sorry for Montana, as they were ''forced" by the conse(R)vative SCOTUS to accept dark election money, as per Citizens United and now they are paying the price in lunacy. Welcome to the eternal election process. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Even so, nobody that was elected had the braincells to read the constitution?
They don't have to. SCOTUS does that for them and ALEC runs the legislation through tons of lawyers.
I'm sure somewhere in the background the NRA is footing the bill for this one, even if they use other entities to funnel the money in.
Sure. I want to post something on your other thread.
I kinda feel sorry for Montana, as they were ''forced" by the conse(R)vative SCOTUS to accept dark election money, as per Citizens United and now they are paying the price in lunacy.
Welcome to the eternal election process.
The Sheriff is the highest LE official in the land; all federal agents are by law subservient.
Tie that up in court. Woncha?
Where I live we don't have to; it's contained within our charter with an over three hundred year history - all other agencies, everywhere, are by law subservient to the Sheriff; would you like to dance that one before the Supreme Court?
How much do you estimate that will cost? Round 'bout?
No where near as much as it will cost the fed to impose their will. And there's nothing that can be done once that federal agent is in cuffs; he'll be dragged before the judge where a decision will be made to indict. And that could go either way. What are they going to do, break him out of jail? Or better yet, relive waco?
Wrong answer. I promise you that it will be a shut down. So, how much tax dollars will be spent?
"Montana.. Would Let Sheriffs Arrest Agents for Arresting People." COOL...really f...ing cool. Now they should pass a law for people to make citizen's arrests...lol
Montanans...for better or worse...in this case definitely for the better are a 'recalcitrant lot', and some of that I would bet stems from the Copper Robber Baron days of the early 20th century when the oligarchs held the reins
I remember over 30 years ago.. going on a x-country trip with the wife and kiddies in a Ford van that I customized. Back then, in order for states to receive federal money, they had to agree to the 55 mph speed limit which was enforced seemingly across the US....that is UNTIL I got to Big Sky Country..Montana!
I never felt so safe from not getting a speeding ticket while going 75-80 mph in the slow lane....as I had cars and trucks breezing by me, i thought, i must be getting old...lol
It was one of the first times I felt happy about getting the over-drive, an approx. $150 option on that van as that sucker just purred with the engine not straining at all
Then years later on a Fri or Sat night, while on another x-country trip, I was in White Horse MT, just outside Glacier ...not many left, see 'em while u can.. National Park with one of my daughters when people were getting out of the bars yelling, whooping, staggering, and banging on street signs
I thought in comparison, what would have happened in Seaside Hts. NJ...(the town of the iconic image of the roller coaster sitting in the ocean after Sandy), and where the police there have had many civil suits levied against them for brutality over the years. I know that there would have been cops swarming all over the place creating a frenzy that would far overshadow the actual problem
It's not that I condone the Wild West-like ways of Montanans and the nagative aspects that could obviously arise from tolerating this, ie. DWI,.... it's just that I appreciate the spirit that Montanans have which when it is channeled for the good.... is a wonderful thing to behold, as your thread exemplifies
All this reminds me of the recalcitrance that we will need in our struggle, including more people like you GF...and finally, it reminds me of a time, not that long ago in this country, when young people were not 'hung out to dry' by a corrupt system for having commited youthful indiscretions
In many ways, once again for better or worse, Montana is what America was
~Odin~
Nine out of ten times when you have a federal v state issue it is about who is buying. So, when we look at items such as the 55mph speed limit, raising the drinking age to 21 and even NCLB, you will notice that it isn't imposed as it were. They talk about rights but it's about whose pocket it's coming out of.
So, this is different in that it is pretty cut and dry. It's show.
Montana may have changed a bit: http://mtcowgirl.com/tag/verdell-jackson/
I shared mostly my personal experiences about Montana, and I made it clear that their recalcitrance does not always work out for the better of society. I was unaware of the other negative goings on there.
Hence certainly the things brought up on the web site you provided reminds one of an earlier, more uglier time in this country. And that was a time that my Dad left the comforts and ignorance of white America to attend MLK's March on Washington in '63, and also to be a life-long advocate for Civil Rights. I assure you GF, the apple does not fall far from the tree in either of the next two generations of my family
~Odin~
I did not mean to be terse with you, I apologize if it sounds that way. I did not expect you to be aware of their current situation. Hell, I just acquainted myself with some of the key players this morning.
However, consider that those elected officials in these states know that it's unconstitutional. Consider that you have many ticked off people that have now been fed an incomprehensible amount of shit.
And they lose.
If at the bottom of this, it's about who is buying those people lose. They wasted time and resources for those in power currently to do what they intended on doing from the get go. Will they recognize it?
Further, they will be used again as necessary whenever a political need arises. They have insisted on a division and it will be maintained at all costs because it is useful. They have proven themselves useful.
At some point, that will back fire.
And they lose again.
At the end of this, there really is one group that wins.
Thanks, no problem. It's "political theatre" in Montana either at its worse or its best depending how you look at it.
~Odin~
Perhaps you should look a little deeper for meaning in this story.
Grow up. Don't be a chicken shit. If you have a deeper meaning to share then why don't you come out and say so?
The 8th seems to have no problem doing that.
A bill has been submitted in Texas that makes it illegal for law enforcement to enforce any new gun restrictions. Looks like it will pass. Also a bill submitted to have an official “gun appreciation” day in Texas. I’m not sure of the number, but several states have submitted bills to circumvent any new federal laws.
And it's all for show and a waste of money and time.
This is not show and tell, this is a public statement. And as a state resident, as you yourself undoubtedly are, we must get behind it - that's it's purpose, to shield us from the overbearing reach of another political agenda.
Hey, it's shit. You know it's shit. It's all show.
I disagree especially in light of the Fed's current monetary policy - it's us versus them and this is a game of survival... there is no systematic difference between this government and the Nazis... look, 2/3's our young people, what would ordinarily be productive college graduates have been thrown to the wolves and unto the scrap heap as if their lives were meaningless; we're keeping our guns and we're keeping the Fed in check as servants of the state. And if you Obamacats don't like it, oh well...
I'm not an Obamacat. The vast majority of the working people got fucked,are still getting fucked and may just be even a little more fucked in the future, But, because you want to stand around and support shit that is for show.................and then spin it so that you don't have to pay attention...........oh well.
Well I would sincerely hope that you are not one of those debased "working" people; I assume then you are either collecting disability or independently wealthy, which is it? Those that do work are going to fight this federal government and its current policies until they die and sometime within the next several years, you will very likely find out why.
And there you go again. Doing your best to spin shit in another direction.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/that-michigan-law-that-steals-workers-rightsit-was/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/wow-cnn-sure-is-showing-its-slant-this-evening/
I see how you feel about the working people.
I tend to look at this thing of economy differently. I see it as the product of human productivity in correlation with the desire for resources. I see it as something that lives wholly outside ourselves, just as mass mind, lives wholly outside of self. I think of it as an "apparatus" - a separate, immeasurable, inhuman entity. Tech, science, creativity all impact productivity but there is also the human element of desire. I support labor rights but I also recognize that the balance is critical and delicate; I would rather see the stability of a regional economy preserved than an employee enrich himself. So...? You didn't answer my question. And it's you who spins from the issue at hand into this bottomless nether-land of obfuscation; when are you obamacats going to realize that people are not THIS stupid?
I would rather see the stability of a regional economy preserved than an employee enrich himself
Failure to pay employees or forcing them into the loss of wages doesn't do anything for the economy. Stealing pensions does not help the economy. In fact, it does the exact opposite.
Your thing of economy is not special. It is oft repeated by those that insist that economics is a hard science. In fact, it is the softest science there is. If you have made it through four courses it should have dawned on you that it's all theory.
Your question is not relevant.
The only obfuscation here is yours. When are you right wing trash going to realize that people are not this stupid?
How did you move from the authority of the Sheriff to labor rights? How does one's brain do that? There is NO correlation between a Sheriff's authority and labor rights, none whatsoever. This isn't "right wing trash," this is law that has been in existence unchallenged for hundreds of years - the Sheriff CAN arrest federal agents, likewise the Fed (with the full unquestioned approbation of the people and the concerted effort of the entire political machine, coupled with a huge mountain of evidence of "high crimes"), can arrest a Sheriff.
[-] 0 points by Theeighthpieceuv8 (30) from Seven Sisters, Wales 1 day ago I disagree especially in light of the Fed's current monetary policy - it's us versus them and this is a game of survival... there is no systematic difference between this government and the Nazis... look, 2/3's our young people, what would ordinarily be productive college graduates have been thrown to the wolves and unto the scrap heap as if their lives were meaningless; we're keeping our guns and we're keeping the Fed in check as servants of the state. And if you Obamacats don't like it, oh well... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
I didn't, you did.. Nice try, though.
Again, this is all about wasting resources: time and money and a shit load of ego.
Oh, but it is right wing trash. It's flat out unconstitutional. The Supreme Court damn sure would smack the crap out of it. There is no legal basis for this law. None.
So, how much do you think this will cost to dance at the Supreme Court?
Like so many of our other laws today it's a political statement. But I know where I live the sheriff as elected is the highest law enforcement official in the land. The Fed has no business pursuing anyone without first coordinating with other agencies. And I think a lot are concerned that the federal government is trying to grow powers it does not have.
Ya, ok. By all means be concerned, however, using tax dollars for something that is this cut and dry is ludicrous. If you're lucky then maybe after it all comes down those very same someones will rally up the troops and act like like little victims.......,maybe..............if you keep provoking then you can get the desired response.
I don’t know. Seems like their serious about it. I think they’re such opposition to ANY new gun restrictions that a lot of people won’t comply. Especially if State and local LEO won’t enforce any new rules. Also looks like Texas is going to amend their conceal carry law to allow open carry of guns. Guess it’ll be like the old west, with people walking around with a sidearm.
No, it was and is a waste of time and resources. You see, we have this thing called the Supremacy Clause and the second amendment was incorporated fully in 2010. Instead of maintaining a cool head, a shit load of people allowed the media and NRA propaganda to rope them in. Because Spike TV and the Lifetime channel wasn't enough drama.
The same group of people are the ones that talk about the deficit. Unbelievable. Probably campaigned on adhering to the constitution but have demonstrated that they intend to pick and choose.
It's disgusting. Morons. Hypocrites. Attention whores.
You may be right. But without a doubt a lot of people sincerely believe the end game is to take ALL their guns. Right or wrong that’s a pervasive feeling among gun owners. All it would take would be a couple more liberal members of the SCOTUS. Banning guns, in incremental steps, is not all that farfetched.
The current strategy seems to be to regulate guns out of existence. Since Congress is not going to act, the States are taking the lead. With New York, California and Colorado passing more restrictive gun laws and many more conservative States looking for ways to get around any new federal gun laws.
Guns are a emotional hot button issue. There is strong passion of both sides of the argument. Both sides are guilty of spreading misinformation and vilifying the other side. I don’t what the outcome will be, but it’s not going away any time soon.
My god, we are such a divided nation. Our politics have become dysfunctional. Is there any hope?
Sincerely believing does not alter what it is. It's incorporated and has been. Within those cases there is regulation. And that's it.
The current strategy is a bunch of people who are going to make a spectacle for something that is cut and dry. They are wasting time and resources to perpetuate a divided nation and be in the spot light to get their 15 minutes of fame.
In the mean time, a bunch of other crap will or will not get passed because focusing in on something that has already been decided means that people won't notice it until it's too late When it all comes down, I guarantee you the Supremacy Clause wins.
Any time that a Democrat states they are going to take guns away the answer is but you can't do that. Not make up a bunch of ludicrous shit. Anytime that an op ed that starts out lying about second amendment and Chicago should be ridiculed out of a job. So, ya, the NRA played this up and a bunch of people bought into it or are buying into it. Give them their 15 minutes and then fire 'em. Really.
Hope is dependent on the number of people who don't get sucked in to the propaganda and divorce themselves from their passion long enough to recognize when they are.
Well said. The public is being distracted from dealing with issues that they can affect in a positive manner by BS gun rights BS ( yes BS before and after ).
It's a lot about campaigning for the next election. Like I said, give 'em their 15 minutes of fame and when it is election time-remember it well.
One thing I do like - I have seen some talk on MSM channels that point out the fact that new gun ( rifle ) regulations will not stop the violence - that it goes a lot deeper then type of gun or access to them - that in fact most homicides happen by hand gun and not rifle - but it is more about the problems in society that feeds the violence as well as some individuals need mental health care.
That's true but then your getting into morality and the regulations are not there to address morality. Mental health care and poverty all need to be addressed thoroughly. Only it seems as if it is a constant uphill battle to get to the point where they can be adequately addressed.
There are no resources or time for that because that has all been used to accomplish something that is all about show.
And that is what I like seeing in some of these spots on MSM ( can you believe it? ) - what you just said is being said - on some f'n MSM stations.
That the gun regulations are a distraction and are only addressing a visible symptom and not the actual causes. ( UNBELIEVABLE )
The gun regulations or the NRA bs?
Both. as well as the fact that government is responding to the problem of gun violence in a shallow and ineffective manner - that gun regs are an easy way to appease some of the public - but is not a cure for the violence.
That goes into the health care and, incidentally, monopolies. One of those items that is not currently being discussed. Further, employment.
The proper response would have been to acknowledge it on all fronts in the specific legislation. The regulations are specific legislation. Although, I am a little shocked that it shows up at all on MSM.
Bout knocked me out of my chair when I saw the 1st one on MSM. I am sure they are playing a spin game - but - hell - they actually let slip some truth in doing it. As employment and wages were also mentioned as was health care and costs and availability/access.
I don't know; I've been to Montana and I don't personally believe they have any more pressing issues.
I don't agree with this at all; in fact, I personally see the NRA as a de facto Fed government. And this is not a divided nation; it's a conglomeration of nations which has ruled the Fed subservient on all but a few necessary issues. States with millions of inhabitants simply do not subjugate themselves to a handful of temporary political whores in DC, especially those who have determined to rob the American people blind to further their own interests. Public statements, to present the united front, are necessary.
What part of the constitution did you not understand?
I don't understand the part of it that allows political whores in Washington to economically subjugate 300 million people to the benefit of the few; I don't like what's going on right now monetarily. We have banks pushing refis again, rolling their dice of debt into derivatives... while Obamacats allow the Fed to pump more money. In the meantime, all of these fools are buying into his universal Utopia; it's all complete horseshit.
WTF did you not understand about the Supremacy clause?
You want to add in a bunch of other crap to justify.
Nobody is buying into Obamacats utopia. That's what is complete and utter horseshit.
Wtf did you not understand about nullification? Supremacy, as you well know, does not extend to 2nd Amendment rights. And I think in virtually all cases LE should coordinate between agencies. I also think it very important these principles of governance be publicly stated and firmly established; the Fed seems to think itself all powerful and it is not.
You have two supreme court cases that incorporate and allow for regulation for the second amendment. You know this is true. Which makes this even more ludicrous.
Listen, you're an intelligent lady and you know the federal government is not empowered to regulate every little aspect of our lives or empowered to force law that regulation. It is only empowered through the supremacy clause to the extent we pusillanimously allow it to happen. While New York democrats rush to get in line for the presidency as the next Obamacats, its residents are saying no. If you want to force-law this one, bring it on.
What this sheriff is saying, though, is that it's a crime for the Fed to attempt to force-law without their approval. Eventually as population grows and resources continue to shrink, this Fed will become increasingly authoritarian; as long as Americans have guns, we'll have WACOs in our future. But without those WACOs we're but lambs led to slaughter at the political whim. And sure, many may welcome this, especially those who seek to reduce certain demographics. But I'm not one of them. And I don't think you should be, either (jmo).
Unfortunately people will not emotionally divorce themselves from the gun issue. Neither side of the argument shows any sign of compromise or working things out. This very well be a waste of time for you personally, but to millions of citizens and many politicians it’s almost a life and death struggle. Guns will dominate politics and the news for a long time. Just another reason for the liberals and conservatives to hate each other.
Neither side of the argument shows any sign of compromise or working things out.
Sure they do. No, no and no is not the answer. Refusal to make concessions by one party is not a sign of working things out. Further, it is held up by propaganda.
This very well be a waste of time for you personally, but to millions of citizens and many politicians it’s almost a life and death struggle.
No. It isn't about how I don't have the time personally. That's ludicrous.
Supremacy Clause
McDonald v Chicago
It isn't a life and death struggle. It's a bunch of people being led around by propaganda.
Just another reason for the liberals and conservatives to hate each other.
Because that is the easiest path to take and doesn't require any critical thinking skills whatsoever. If you can not just make this an emotional issue but maintain that division (even faced with the information above) by way of propaganda then it is that much easier to incite people with bullshit for any other issue.
It is so much easier for you to say it's a liberal v conservative issue so that you can keep that division rolling. Do you need an enemy to validate your existence?
My point is you can’t take the emotion out of the gun argument. Both side think they think critically. And, so far there is no compromise on either side. You can view the gun debate as a distraction, but it’s still not going away anytime soon. At the moment it appears to be the 500 pound gorilla in the room. It overshadows almost every other issue in Washington. I don’t like it any more than you, but that’s the reality right now.
Yes, propaganda on all sides of the gun debate; and people believe every bit of it. We may not like people are being sucked in by the propaganda, but people believe what they believe. Not much we can do about it.
And last but not least, the gun debate IS largely a liberal vs. conservative issue. Just like everything else in politics.
I just want to make sure that I heard you correctly. You understand that there is no basis legally. Yet, you are going to be a willing participant. In fact, you will seek to justify it.
Hey, have it your way. We can make it conservative v liberal.
Nope, I’m not a willing participant. I will not register my guns. I will not give up my guns. Besides, I lost all my guns in a boating accident last week. I don’t have anything to register. There is no record of what guns I own(ed) anywhere.
You see, our discussion is an example of why the gun debate will never end.
Oh, I see perfectly the no, no and no. But let's be absolutely clear. It isn't both sides that aren't willing to compromise. It's one side. Like I said, if division is what you want then you can have it.
There is no legal basis for it and you pick and choose through the constitution and seek to justify it.
The answer is no, no and no. I will not negotiate my rights away. I will not compromise my rights away. On the other hand I will support efforts that actually would reduce gun violence. Like going after the drug gangs and going after the street gangs. But the craziness of the anti-gun folks, who want ALL our guns because they are afraid of them will not be accepted.
You say there is no legal basis for taking guns. I agree with that, and the anti-gun folks know that. That is why they’re trying to legislate guns out of existence without an actual confiscation. Think of all the dumb ideas that have come up. Ban semi-auto rifles, outlaw hi cap mags, background checks. background checks where records are kept, gun tax, ammo tax, gun insurance, require that guns be locked up at home, gun registration, require extensive training and the list goes on. Not to mention that any new liberal members of the SCOTUS could revoke the 2nd amendment.
I’m not paranoid. I’m college educated, a mid-level corporate manager, and prefer to think I’m rational. To me, it’s clear the anti-gun folks want our guns, and will to great lengths to acquire them. For the record, I don’t own any semi-auto rifles, I don’t hunt anymore and I’m not a gun nut. Just an honest gun owner.
Also, Not a member of the NRA. Although they seem to be making more sense in this gun debate than anyone else.
We were done two posts ago. You want division, you got it.
Agreed, we’re beating a dead horse here. I just get annoyed when someone thinks taking rights away is a solution. I done.
Good post as always.
~Odin~
Imposter.
frovikIeka
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How the hell could he do that? I'm kind of honored...lol..in a weird sort of way
~Odin~
Capital i instead of a lower case l (L)
Yep, I know now, thanks.
~Odin~
Smart people don't worry about the motives of a proposer (appeal to motive) because they are able to aptly preconceive all the implications of an idea. Learn to judge an idea and its implications and you'll be able to embrace good ones without worrying where they come from, and you'll be able to reject bad ones even if they come from those you admire the most.
Otherwise put, if you shun my ideas because of my supposed motives it only means you are unable to judge the ideas properly, i.e. for their own worth. Such an analytical deficiency will result in you accepting ideas which should not be accepted, and refusing ideas that should be embraced. You won't be able to judge ideas properly. That's why we call it a logical fallacy to make an appeal to motive.
I don't believe Odin is like you. I believe he is able to see past the proposer, and straight to the idea's core which is the only thing that matters.
You're completely wrong.
It's smart people that DO worry about the motive behind a proposal.
Not to do so, would be indicative of an incomplete thought process.
[Removed]
Thank you. Or apparently a defective one like OJ's.
How does he think ALEC has gotten away with what it's done?
One proposal at a time, devoid of ultimate motive.
Exactly. Shills in office forwarding it and others in office to stupid or lazy to look at the implications of such legislation.
False. A smart person is able to understand all the implications of a proposal by looking at the proposal alone. If he estimates that there are shady implications than he might start to wonder why, to look for shady motives. Dumb people go about it the other way around. They start by trying to establish bad motives before even looking at the idea. You are such a person, so are conspiracy theorists.
As an example, my idea to build a Bridge to the Ground is rejected by many who fear my motives. However, if these people took the time to look and understand the idea they would realize I have no way to profit from it. It would be a community run forum, which would give me less power than what I have now. These people would realize negative motives they think I have do not hold importance because they cannot be realized with this particular idea.
You always attack the proposer because you do not have the intellectual ability to discuss ideas. The latter is a much harder mental activity. The intellectually lazy automatically opt for the former.
Nope - just pointing out how you operate to those who do not know you yet.
So. Does your mommy make you wear a helmet to protect your noggin when you get dizzy and fall over from your perpetual spinning?
[-] 0 points by oIdJohn (-27) 0 minutes ago
More logical fallacies. More proof you are unable to discuss ideas. Your intellectual deficiency borders on the monstrous. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
More logical fallacies.
You always attack the proposer because you do not have the intellectual ability to discuss ideas.
Just because you don't show your motive, doesn't mean it isn't there.
All the $50 terms you can find on wiki, won't change that.
You're inability(refusal?) to answer direct questions must have one those $50 wiki terms tied to it too.
Who don't you tell all about that one?
He's paid to troll and he's not alone. Are his fingers typing?---he's lying. He is a bonafide jack ass.Him and his little crew.
Again, you fail to understand. Motive or not, it does not matter! Smart people will be able to judge the ideas for what they are. Only people who are unable to judge ideas, people like yourself, attempt to judge the person or his motives instead.
I answer questions regarding my ideas because that's what matters. Questions regarding personal motives, etc..., are irrelevant. And, really, when I do answer them in full honestly you do not even believe me.
Motive should not matter, but since you're obsessed with this logical fallacy (because you lack the analytical ability to judge ideas), let it be known that my motive is to help Occupy get better and grow larger. Also, let it be known that this positive motive does not in any way improve upon my idea of a Bridge to the Ground. What matters is the idea, and only the idea.
You must develop your skills in logic and analysis. It saddens me that you are stuck at the level of logical fallacies when you try to understand the world around you. It's like trying to swim when you're stuck in quicksand. You need to free yourself, and you can do that by educating yourself. Read up all the webpages you can find about the "appeal to motive" logical fallacy. I'm sure you're going to learn a lot.
Happy studies.
You are a conspiracy theorist.
Therefore you are false.
By your own words.
These bills in Montana for instance, are NOT written without motive.
What do you think that motive is?
Or why don't you think that motive is important?
people want to control the area win which they live
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_motive
This is one feature of the fallacy that you always rely upon. You believe that you can eliminate an idea by showing even the slightest hint of a possible nefarious motive. This is how conspiracy theorists work.
You should develop your analytical ability so as to be able to judge ideas by themselves. This is particularly important because you'll often encounter ideas which come without the context of their proposer. In such a case, your method of judging the idea based on the proposer will be inapplicable.
It's never too late to learn to judge ideas by their own merit, and it will serve you well in the future.
Spin OJ spin - hey do you get dizzy with all of your constant spinning? Or have you developed some sort of tolerance?
More logical fallacies. More proof you are unable to discuss ideas. Your intellectual deficiency borders on the monstrous.
BS = Smart people don't worry about the motives of a proposer
This is an ideal situation for myself. I will be able to separate the mentally challenged, like yourself, who are unable to discuss an idea and so rely on attacking the proposer, and those who have the intellectual ability to go beyond motives, rumors, reputation, and judge the ideas directly.
This was planned by myself. It's very quick this way to find worthy intellectuals.
So - U R a masochist who likes being shown 2 B the dummy in any place - that explains why U like to come here - so U can get mentally flogged - U teach? - aAHhaahahaha - what? - how to be a boring pain in the ass?
[-] -1 points by oIdJohn (-30) 0 minutes ago
I am the happiest when I'm the least smart in a room. That's when I can learn! Being the smartest, like on this forum, is not that interesting. I have to teach (which still permits growth and learning to a degree), but I'd much rather be a student. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
You have reached the stress point after which your logical fallacies do not work. You recoil to a childlike state. A time when you felt safe, a time when life was easy. You do this by unconsciously adopting the writing style of a young, innocent, 14 year old girl. A "U", an "R'. The only thing missing is little red hearts for the dots on your I's.
This type of regression for protection is Freudian in nature. It's very interesting. I suggest you study it. Read Jung also. He talks about this reaction in relation to dreams.
Damn OJ - R U trying now? I mean U seem 2 B trying 2 put some effort in2 U'r comebacks now.
That would mean that U R right on schedule in U'r meltdown behavior.
Oh - and I also noticed U'r stupid silent vote-down attack 2. U R so predictable.
Did you pass your test?
Pass gas would be more likely.
U were absent 4 a while today - were U on U'r pre-meltdown pouting break? That would fit in with U'r usual meltdown pattern. I know U don't like this writing style. I know it bugs U all 2 hell and gone. So 4 U I will continue when commenting 2 U.
This writing style of yours fascinates me. One of Freud's famous patients, Frau Emmy von N. a.k.a. Fanny Moser, used a similar style when she was stressed. You only use it after having been tired from a discussion. As a last resort, a sort of desperate last arsenal. Consciously, your interpretation is that you use it as an offensive gesture. But, subconsciously, your brain uses it as a defense mechanism. This is clear, because you always use it at the end of discussions - like a child covering his ears and screaming - "Mommy! Make it stop!".
Do you have a daughter? Perhaps she is 11-14 years of age? Perhaps imitating her cell phone writing habits helps you feel safe as it brings you back to a time when mommy took care of you?
There's certainly a lot to study here. Very Freudian indeed. The key is when you use this writing style. Always at the end of long discussions when you feel tired because your lack of logic is starting to become apparent. That's when you need a blanket of calm, a teddy bear, a kiss from mother - something that will remind you of a time when you were cuddled and hugged and when nothing could go wrong.
I believe you are currently laying in a fetal position. Be aware of this. Next time you adopt this childlike writing, notice how your body also adopts the postures of your youth. This is because the mind and body and always interconnected.
You are not looking for worthy intellectuals - you could not stand being the dumb person in any situation ( so it is really funny that you try to stay in the game here - as you are obvious - you do not seem capable of learning - So you are forever the dumb one in the room ) - nope - you try to find sheep to meekly follow your lead. Go to a supremacist site - you should find plenty of sheep there.
I am the happiest when I'm the least smart in a room. That's when I can learn! Being the smartest, like on this forum, is not that interesting. I have to teach (which still permits growth and learning to a degree), but I'd much rather be a student.
You really must take some time and study the art of proper debate, logic in its generalized form, and logical fallacies. You could take a break from your forum obsession, and study these subjects for a few months. You'll come back a more interesting and intellectually rigorous person.
They don't have to because they are able to understand the plenitude of the idea; a plenitude that resides entirely in the idea itself. Those who care about the proposer are those who lack the analytical ability to weigh an idea for what it is. Instinctively, they know they have this ineptitude, but are ashamed to admit it. They hide their inability to judge the idea by judging the proposer instead.
You are such a person. Ideas don't interest you because you are unable to comprehend them. So, instead, you are interested in attacking the proposers on this forum which you perceive have motives that don't harmonize with yours.
Thrashy, your idea of having an open all information transparent protest ,, is a bad idea.
I never espoused such an idea. That would indeed be bad.
That is what your idea surely suggests.. You want an affinnity website where all groups can discuss their ideas and plans .. is not that what you propose to do with this site ..? along with other information .. like how many hits this website gets ..etc..
I never suggested that all ideas and plans be discussed. I suggested we must enhance the discussions between affinity groups, and between them and the Internet occupiers. This is no way means all information must be transparent and open. For strategical reasons, its quite obvious that some planning must be kept secret from who we perceive as our adversaries.
The better world Occupy imagine's will be a world where the population has much more say than what it has now. This much is clear. For this to happen, we must enhance online participation. This is also clear.
[Removed]
It's in my response. Capital 'i' instead of small 'L.'
Edit; he's used this technique before. It's hard to spot sometimes.
Thanks, another poster filled me in. He is entertaining once you know his shtick
What the hell... two can play this game..lol...
Good Night & Solidarity..... thanks to Thr@ssy
~oldJohn~.....lol
Good night to you, oldJohn.
heheheh
Take it easy, Odin. Think about my idea for a community run website. That's all that matters. I joke around and commit hara-kiri on my own user to show you this. Proposers are nothing, it's all about the ideas. "A Bridge to the Ground!" - the occupiers chanted in harmony. "A Bridge to the Ground!"
If this is your idea of building up trust
What is your idea of deception
It's your legacy, not mine, Thank God
~Odin~
Until the day you just go around this forum attacking other users and spitting out divisiveness you'll be useless here. When you decide to start providing solutions and real arguments against the solutions you don't agree with, then you'll start being useful. Until that time, enjoy attacking others with logical fallacies, and plain old lies. I get that it makes you feel good. That's fine. You'll come around eventually.
No, intelligent people already see my commitment. I have been committed from day one. The people who can't see that are not worth my time. They are those who follow rumors, logical fallacies, are obsessed with the proposer, etc... Those types of people cannot weigh ideas. They are useless, and that's why they spend their time here insulting others instead of pointing out problems and putting solutions on the table.
Consider me useless if you like. Whatever it takes
I'll wear your child physycological label that you placed on me as a badge of honor
~Odin~
I think you're more divisive than I am. We all have different opinions. My idea of a Bridge to the Ground is the opposite of being divisive. The whole purpose is to forge unity between as many people as possible by giving them the tools to participate in Occupy and really affect change no matter where they might be in the world.
I'm not scared of such people. Truth cannot be undermined. Let them come, and instead of attacking them with logical fallacies attack their weak arguments with well forged stronger ones. New readers will see who is right and we will win more people.
I don't believe in deadlines and lame challenges. When you realize how strong my idea is, how needed it is, how the proposer is of no importance, then you'll come on board. I can't help you understand logical fallacies. That's something you'll have to learn on your own.
So in other words you won't take up my "challenge" to show everyone your commitment to Occupy
OK...fair enough
~Odin~
I'm not asking you to find me worthwhile, nor am I asking you to trust me. What I'm saying is you should be able to judge the idea for its own merits. If the idea is good, or even great, then you can find the idea worthwhile and trustable no matter what you think of the proposer. Furthermore, if the idea helps Occupy, then who cares about the proposer.
I consider you one of the intelligent users of this forum. It's my belief that you'll eventually be able to put logical fallacies aside and judge ideas without being affected by their proposer. Ideas stand on their own two feet. They are complete.
My idea of a Bridge to the Ground is transparent and clear, and that's why you don't need to trust me in the least, nor find me worthwhile to embrace it and help it become reality.
You should do it for Occupy, not for me.
It's going to be a community effort, so you won't even need to communicate with me. You'll be able to take part in the decisions of how this is implemented. I'm only proposing the seed of the idea. The details will have to be decided by the community - including Internet Occupiers and those in affinity groups. The more people get behind the idea the better. You should do it before this site is completely dead, and before people stop believing in the Internet for Occupy.
I'm even willing to step down for the implementation if there are many like you who are obsessed with the proposer and won't do it if I'm around. That's not a problem.
It is much more difficult to deceive someone when you can look them in the eye, or are working alongside them
Look at all the havoc you alone have raised here, and please don't tell me it was for the good of the movement
Just imagine if there were tons more people here tring to undermine the efforts of Occupy
Like I said, this site could be improved greatly, and I will make efforts to do that, but if you want me to help improve THIS site
Let's see what you got Thr@ss....get off your Bridge Building obsession....Put up fire-breathing threads that are well articulated so we can feel your anger... the heat and your passion of your supposed commitment to Occupy....quit being divisive....go after the big corrupt bankers.... demanding jail time for them....sic both dems and repubs hard
Simply, I am asking you to walk the talk
Do all this until April 15th, and then if you think that I am so important to your Bridge Building, we'll talk seriously
~Odin~
That's OK, no problem.
I need people who can judge ideas and who don't get caught up with the proposer. That's why I played that little joke on you, to see your reaction. What I'm looking for are people entirely devoted to bettering Occupy. Those types of people will push an idea that helps Occupy even if it comes from someone they don't like. These are the only types I find worthwhile.
I'm pushing the idea of a task distribution system now: http://occupywallst.org/forum/bridge-to-the-ground-on-a-task-distribution-system/
When you're ready to devote yourself entirely for the benefit of Occupy, give me a shout. I'll be around.
Admittedly Thr@ssy... it was both sad, and refreshing to break ties with you
That should tell you, it is not about not liking you, rather it is about not trusting you
And the only people i find "worthwhile" are people that I can trust
~Odin~
False. Feeble minds won't listen, but intellectuals will. Smart people only care about ideas, not the proposer. That's because they know it's a logical fallacy to judge ideas based on who brought them to the public.
This is because you can't see far enough. Hitler's cooking abilities stand on their own ground and have nothing to do with the bad aspects of his personality. You must learn to separate the proposer and the idea. Hitler himself was not able to and tried to connect Wagner with Nazism. This was a mistake on his part.
Perhaps. I consider you a dormant intellectual. I think you could be awoken. You have the potential, but something is holding you back. Deep down inside you know I'm right. You know the idea is what matters, not the proposer. However, there's a part of you that clings to the ways and rumors supported by the people on this site. It's easier to be like DKAtoday, shooz, etc... than to be like me. You need not make an effort. That easiness still appeals to you, but I'm quite sure you will eventually see the light. You cannot reach the stars without first walking through thorns. Per aspera ad astra.
Ideas, not the proposer. Sleep on that. Meditate for a bit, and you will realize why I commit hara-kiri here. I concentrate on you because you are the key. You are the mini bridge to the ground. You have more potential than the others here. I know that. I see it. You must free yourself from judging ideas based on rumors surrounding the proposer. I destroyed myself for you, much like Jesus gave his life to wash us of our sins.
The question is, will you be able to see past all the negativity that has been painted over Thrasymaque in order to reach the golden ideas? This is the question I care about and the only way I could pose it was to first paint myself ugly. Those who reach the ideas are worthwhile, those who do not may be discarded. Per aspera ad astra.
Thrassy as you know when people here stood there ground for at least most of the principles of this movement, I was one of them who did not back down
And i paid the price in being banned multiple times due to poor moderation, that supported partisanship on this forum which was/is incredibly antithetic to what Occupy is about
I now realize that you were one of the people that I had an alliance with when I was in that subterranean world of having been banned for following his conscience.
You asked me to take part in a deception with you, and I refused because I did not want to start lying on here. You respected that, and did not pursue it further. Thank You for that, and your support when i needed it most
Your comments here, and on your thread were very thoughtful, with a lot of truths
I also am well aware though that there are people here who are only here to see that this movement fails, and they are ramping up the sophistication of their physycological efforts to do so, as people here become more astute to the methods and the threat itself
In the 17 months that I have been here, I never paid much attention to the legenday, folkloric....Thrassy
One of the things in my life that I have learned to do is to forgive, and not to carry grudges, and I will for you too in time
But last night when I saw that you had hi-jacked my identity on here, that went over the line
Sorry buddy, but your on your own now. You've lost me in your Bridge Building
I will pursue making this forum better in my own way though
~Odin~
Your motives/contributions will always be suspect here. To those who are more familiar with your past activities - it will only be a matter of wondering what/how you are trying to spin.
The idea is to eliminate myself as the proposer. I want to be sure people like my ideas for what they are. It's the only thing that matters. The tradition on this site has always been to judge the proposer and not his or her ideas. This is demonstrated by the Twinkle Team who twinkle each other without even reading their team mates' posts, and who stinkle others in the same way. I don't care about your trust in me, if you stinkle me, etc... I'm just here to pass off my ideas. What you think of me as a proposer does not matter at all, so it's best I commit hara-kiri and get my proposer-self out of the way.
True geniuses are those capable of judging ideas for what they are worth. Those types appreciate good ideas even if they come from their worst enemy. I want to communicate with those people on this site. I don't care about those who give high fives and twinkles just because they like me, and who give me stinkles just because they don't.
We should be talking about my great idea, but all you care about is attacking the proposer. That tells me you're not an intellectual. Now, I know I should find someone else to discuss the idea with. I saved myself a great deal of time by removing the proposer from the equation. That's what I'm about.
"Eliminate my[your]self".....hmmmm....that's an interesting idea....truth even I wouldn't want that
Considering your shenanigans, wouldn't that be all the more reason, no one would want to listen to your idea
Hitler might have made a good beef stew, but I would have been skeptical about eating it
If you just came to the revelation that I am not an "intellectual," I would suspect that YOU are not one either...lol
You gotta remember oldboy, aside from my travels and life experiences, I grew up in Jersey, and having done so, it prepares you a bit better for the a..holes that life throws at you
~Odin~
YOU...concentrate on building a "bridge" to the forum before we try to build one to the ground
I must say that in the light of day, your mischievousness seems more amusing to me
I look at it as one more lesson in life, albeit a minor one
And BTW, I did sleep very well, so if that not being so, was one of your goals, it did not work
What kind of crap is on your agenda today?
~Odin~
VQkag2 was never banned, but you were and on multiple occasions. Does that make you a troll? The moderators sure think so. You might want to think about that.
My somewhat flippant comment that this is in reply to has been replaced by my last more thoughtful, sad one
Your have amazing talent Thrassy. I wish I could believe you were on our side. Good Night
~Odin~
You have made up your mind about me based on your preconceived suppositions which are based on rumors you heard on this forum. You are so off about me it's quite sad. Why would I want you to sleep badly? You're one of the few people here who actually does something of worth for Occupy. You have a connection to the ground which is amazing! I want you to sleep well so that you gather your full potential of energy because I know you will use it to better Occupy. I wrote to you because we need you in order to create the Bridge to the Ground. Don't you realize that? You're the key in this project. You're the only one here who actually is both here and on the ground. You are a mini bridge to the ground. What we need to do is find out why there are not more like you. I'd love to have the answers to both following questions. It would help us in creating this desperately needed bridge.
Why is there only one member of this forum who actually does something on the ground, who is connected to Occupy in practice? (I'm talking about Odin)
Why are there not more people from the ground (affinity groups, etc...) who use this website which was originally intended by jart to serve as a bridge to the ground. (To put people in connect for the planning and advertising of Occupy events.)
Odin, do you realize how important you are? You're like Neo. The key. Occupy is a worldwide movement and this is the main forum, the hub. You are the only one here who is connected to the ground. Everything is up to you. The future, the better world, is in your hands. We need to create a way for people all around the world to participate with Occupy even if they can't make it to events on the ground, and the only way to do that is through the Internet. This will make the movement explode!
You might think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. I'm dead serious. You help affinity groups by participating in the creation of events, and that's great. But, you have a much higher calling for Occupy. I would even call it a responsibility given to you because of your unique position in the movement. Your destiny is to help create the bridge I am talking about. You must show us the way, show us how we can be connected to the ground like you are. You must also promote the use of the Internet in the affinity groups you attend. You must help them understand that they can't limit themselves to the people who can make it to their meetings and events. They must open up to the thousands upon thousands of people around the world who want to be part of Occupy, but can't make it in person.
It's your job to do this because only you can do it.
What's this have to do with what's happening in Montana?
Besides, "a bridge to the ground" is an illogical concept.
One would use a ladder or an elevation device for that purpose.
"Everything is up to you,".....ME??......ut-oh I think we may be in trouble!...lolol That sounds like more of your physycological babble. Nevertheless, I will use your comment, hence my reply as a platform to get my feelings out....so here goes
Building a Bridge from here to the ground is a 'worthy goal' Thr@ssy, as I have always thought too. Having OWS, this forum, or affinity groups susceptible to either your, or someone elses shenanigans ...divisiveness, and hence your subversive ways is not.
Fool me once shame on...u know the rest.......Remember I'm from Jersey...picture a progressive slimmer version of Chris Christie....same in your face attitude....unlike him, only when necessary tho
I think you know by now that I am very protective of the people that are nearer...than me to the heart of this movement. I would never betray their trust.... NEVER!
The initial roles that many people in Occupy took on have morphed into something that they did not necessarily anticipate. For the most part, there are no big egos. People are finding the place where their skills, knowledge, interest and experience fit in best..
Everyone here should understand, I am just an old dude that goes up there once a week on average to either take part in direct actions, help set up a OTS & OWS events, or attend meetings. And I also do some stuff from my home in NJ. They should also realize that I will never mis-represent myself or the movement the way that VQkag2 did, and I will also always respect confidences
I do feel that I bring a fairly unique perspective to those meetings, mainly because I am an older dude, who lives in conservative America, and has done his thing in life.
Hence one of the things that I have been pushing for is a better way for Occupy to reach out to..err...older dudes & dudesses in ConAm who are doing, or have done their thing in life...lol
Anyway, one of the points I want to make clear and reiterate again is... there are many people in Occupy that are doing these things a helluva lot more than me, so no one here should misconstrue my paltry contributions to Occupy with their major ones... in which they sacrifice so much of their time and energy to advance our struggle
Yes, IF I ever see those people from this web site again, I will pursue ways to make this web site better, BUT once again not more vulnerable to your subversive, divisive shenanigans
And just for the record Thr@ssy....in case your wondering, in my quest to be honest, YES I did spill my guts, and tell one of the persons from the web site that I had been banned
So now I may be in the awkward position of THEM being as wary of ME, as I am of YOU! How ironic...eh?..
~Odin~
[Removed]
Above three comments are typed in manually by the 'TrashCompactor/Composter = Manure Spreader'
Hang in there Odin...It goes away after a while.
Good call!
Eh - I suppose as it is late and my eyes are crossed. The unmentionable one is playing it's games again.
He's just ticked because I think 'oldJohn' has been banned. I don't see any of his threads, and nothing comes up for that name under users in the search bar. I think the same is true for 'BlueMonday', but not sure since I don't know if an actual thread was made under that name. We have a new user tonight though. 'TheBlackSun', which would describe his mood very well, if indeed he was shadow banned.
I thought we had a black sun before - if it is "it" you are correct in it being fitting - black hole.
Ideas based on unchecked suppositions are just as bad as false ideas. A conspiracy theorist is a venom that poisons Occupy.
Is that 'o, l, d', or is it, 'o capital i d'? Same for 'BlueMonday'?
Robespierre? Because, like him, I advocate equal rights for all and am against the death penalty?
Ideas based on unchecked suppositions are just as bad as false ideas. A conspiracy theorist is a venom that poisons Occupy.
I am not BlueMonday. What's worst is that you could check this with jart so easily. Instead, you choose to embrace thinking based on delusions, bad research, rumors, lies, etc.... Why not learn to check facts before making accusations? It's really not that hard. Why limit yourself to a life of baseless suppositions?
Robespierre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_de_Robespierre
Hey, yeah! Damn good call. I missed it until you made that connection, the transposed letters.
Edit: capital "i" instead of small "L."
It is playing it's old games again.
He is a clever little bastard, eh?
~Odin~
[Removed]
"My god, we are such a divided nation."
Nope, God didn't do it.
Can you say, thank you FLAKESnews faux fact flingers?
Can you say, thank you Dick Armey?
Can you say, thank you Ronald Reagan?
Do you understand what those three things have in common?
Wow. A thoughtful, reasonable, unemotional poster. You won;t last here long.
Anyway, you are so right about how polarized our nation has become. Leftists and conservatives cannot talk calmly about anything these days. The divider-in-chief really knows his organizing basics. He's got all the citizens fighting mad at each other along Dem and Rep lines and laughing his ass off since our two party system is nothing but an illusion to keep the masses from coming together.
Thanks for publicizing the resistance of Montana and millions of citizens nationwide to criminal and or unconstituional actions of the FBI and other Fed entities.
Thanks for showing that you are easily led around by the media and willing to waste resources for some good old fashioned Jerry Springer time.
Wow, you are showing your normal stupidity but using respectable language. Are you feeling OK, do you have a fever? I'm worried.
Wow, you are a lyin', connivin' douche bag no matter what you write.
Feel better, fuck wad?
Mods, it's your site, your choice, so be it. I see that my other comment at this comment level (4th grey line) has been shadow banned. How could my comment be considered offensive, but Potty Mouth's, immediately above, not be considered so?
Well, hello there little cockroach. How you doin'?
Go away evil one.
No, little cockroach.
[Removed]
What happened there, little attention whore? You need to make the threads all about you? Of course you do. Same shit different day.