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Forum Post: Money Speculation

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 28, 2021, 1:16 p.m. EST by agkaiser (2516) from Fredericksburg, TX
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

How is money inserted into the economy and what gives value to money?

We can only speculate about the historical origins of money. But we can agree that money represents the goods for which it's traded. As such, money is the promise of material goods of comparable value. Whether paper bank notes or metal coins (preferred by those who value pretty metals or stones of little practical value) money in the end is a debt instrument that may be traded for real goods and material services. None of this discussion answers the question: how is money created and added to circulation in real time?

I could talk about how private banks, including the FED, create debt on their ledgers or FED "quantitative easing" and how these contribute to inflation of real estate, stock and other prices. I might also note that these things create no real goods or material services. But that should be obvious. So I'll leave that to digest and ask more questions.

Where does the leverage originate to conduct corporate raiding and asset stripping Wall St. activities? Is its source found in investment banks and FED "quantitative easing?"

Who benefits the most from real estate price inflation? Where does the money come from that fuels it? Well, the banks get the biggest interest payments in the first years of a mortgage. Remember, if a 30 year loan is completely paid off in that term, one will pay for the real estate 3 times over with the principal and interest. If you upgrade more often, the interest paid will increase. The banks will make more from each property. How does the increase in the price of real estate compare to the interest the bank collects?

Other important considerations: How do high speed trading and other destructive "investment strategies" contribute to the economy? How have we come to believe that the prosperity of Wall St. does not increase the poverty of everyone else?

Conservative judges, since the rise of the Neo Liberal threat to the human race, have redefined efficiency to serve the ideology of their owner-operators on Wall St. Neither Pareto Efficiency nor any real math work for the cons. https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/WP_149-Glick-and-Lozada.pdf

Pareto Efficiency essentially states the obvious: all of economics, in fact all of reality, is zero sum. If y = x, y - x = 0 ie. the amount taken from x is equal to the amount taken by y. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficiency

Video link https://youtu.be/0RgzQemp4c4



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[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23744) 2 years ago

Try buying a used car from a dealer with cash. They don't want to know you. Suddenly, the car that was available has sold. They only want to deal in debt, with fake money on paper, with fees and interest payments galore!

Disgusting and frustrating! And, not a way to build a society and economy that works for all people.

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (2516) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 years ago

Milton Friedman encouraged those lizards to come out from under their rocks...

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"It Is Time To Remove The Debt Barrier To Economic Growth?"

by Michael Hudson & Paul Craig Roberts & an essential read - imo.

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas!

[-] 2 points by agkaiser (2516) from Fredericksburg, TX 2 years ago

Moses and other priests and kings before and since have known the inevitability of economic collapse if wealth compounding and concentration are not checked. How has the human race devolved to the point we can no longer see the obvious?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Why the "Reagan Revolution" Scheme to Gut America's Middle Class is Coming to an End"!

Also: http://occupywallst.org/article/flu-mob-be-vaccine/#comment-1080001 link to a bw reply & links.

MULTUM in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Pentagon and Tax Cheats Already Cost Taxpayers Far More Than Biden’s Job Plan"! ... by Lindsay Koshgarian:

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 2 years ago

"Corporations have indebted themselves and impaired their capitalization by borrowing money with which to repurchase their stock."

I suppose that you are advocating that the corporate transfer of wealth to their stockholders be forgiven. That's absolutely idiotic !

The proper policy is to allow all of the highly indebted companies to fail. That's how a reset should be done. Not following this policy damages the integrity of the financial markets and threatens the collapse of the credibility of the U.S. currency. The stockholders have the responsibility to monitor their corporations whose equity they hold. If they themselves don't exercise their due diligence or are just too cheap to hire competent corporate boards of directors to achieve good governance, losing their equity is an eminently reasonable outcome for them. Ownership begets responsibility.

I even think that the myriads of Trumperian deaths in the U.S. are well-deserved because our voters had chosen our nefarious Commander-In-Chief for preserving patriarchical White Supremacy. Pub[l]ic defense mandated by our Constitution can only cover up so much muck for dishing out the benefits of the doubt to protect the innocent ones !

The U.S. has just had a really bad presidential term by 臨幸總統, (the Great Libertinea-tor,) with far too much ooze of slime to be covered up in its entirety ( e.g. accomplices in a conspiracy.)

Putin is a killer by suppressing the Press. All people need to be given the freedom of expression, especially regarding CoViD-19 in Russia in March of 2020, even if it was deemed "alleged" but the report was certainly "timely". ( When one sees into the still dark recesses, things there are always "alleged". It's why cavemen who want to look good suppress bad news in the press. Not seeing something when one's eyes are blindfolded doesn't mean that something doesn't exist. For example, there was a flare-up of people with CoViD-19 symptoms who tested negative after big increases of CoViD-19 cases last year; a good hypothesis was that there were test-evading variants in circulation so genome sequencing was needed. The health authorities deciding not to spend the money to sequence doesn't mean variant straints aren't circulating and spreading.) In retrospect, it was right on! People need to know to avoid martial-arts clubs due to their patrons' heavy breathing. Cavemen kill. Putin is a caveman.

The U.S. can freeze his assets when he wants to retire using the authority of the Magnitsky Act. He's riding on the back of the Siberian tiger from which he cannot get down without getting eaten. He had better follow Kim Jung-un's lead in shoring up his myelin sheath and gorge himself fat to make foie gras.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Debt" NOT "Putin" was the point of my reply - U cretin! Now also fyi...

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 2 years ago

You're absolutely ingenious in making me see the light as Putin does the same in Russian Orthodox Epiphany. "Putin" is a contracted term: Pu ( rich person's highly toxic and radioactive, though not quite "Marco" Polo-210 metal, plutoium-239 ) + [cres]tin.

The word "crestin" comes from a word used in an 18th century Alpine dialect, used to describe "a dwarfed and deformed idiot." ( often resulting from hypothyroidism due to the lack of iodine [e.g. in the form of potassium-iodide salt or pill which can displace body's absorption of radioactive iodine, I-131, in radioactive fallout spread by nuclear weapon tests, thereby reducing the chance of developing cancerous cells in the thyroid gland; people who live downstream/downwind or near DPRK's nuclear weapon testing sites can benefit from using this knowledge] in the diet.)

The Russian Federation being such a vast largely land/ice-locked empire may lack iodine-containing ( or having only radioactive-iodine-or-cesium-contaminated freshwater fish ) seafood in many inland places. Putin being such a short and extremely rich Russian fits all of the very apt etymological descriptions. Paka figures.

"Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." Debt is frequently the result of the latter. The U.S. took out a mortgage with Hades per our President's Pursuit of His Happiness so we just pay down the mortgage as the installments/instalments come due.

‘I Wanted to Always Play It Down’

On Feb. 7th, Trump leveled with book author Bob Woodward about the dangers of the new 
virus that was spreading across the world, originating in Central China. He told the 
legendary reporter that the virus was airborne, tricky and “more deadly than even your 
strenuous flus.”
Six weeks later, on March 19th, he acknowledged to Woodward: “To be honest with you, 
I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down. Because I don’t want to 
create a panic.”

SARS_CoV-2 being airborne means wearing breathing/sneezing/coughing/crying/yelling/chanting barrier contraceptive devices such as masks, goggles, eye glasses, face shields, respirators, etc. can help prevent contracting CoViD-19. Watch out for Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children. On February 8th, 2020, without any of these prophylactics, I might have caught SARS_CoV-2 from aerosol coughed out by a person intercepting my path. Two days later, on February 10th, I got headache, sore throat, and seemingly a low-grade fever ( I felt that I had a fever but it wasn't objectively confirmed due to an old battery in the electronic thermometer because I hadn't been sick at all for a number of years and forgot all about re-calibrating the thermometer before using it.)

On the next day, I developed multiple symptoms of MIS-A listed below except for feeling terribly nauseated and wanting to vomit but didn't ( probably suppressed by drinking a 1.5 cups or 12 fl. oz. of orange-rind flavored tea inadvertently set over night { generating poisonous tannic acid which kills germs such as anthrax in animal hides [in olden days to be made into leather], orange rind easing up breathing }, next eating an orange whole { citric acid also used in coating intravenous lines to prevent blood clots as well as SARS_CoV-2's triggering clots in humans' blood vessels causing various potentially fatal symptoms such as heart attack of type ischemia, stroke, pulmonary thrombosis, etc. }, including its rind { easing up breathing, terpenes and cellulose in the pulp for organic cleaning and scrubbing }, and gradually drinking 3 cups of water { to flush it all out, especially to dilute and flush the toxic tannic acid; I often drink 4 cups upon waking up in the morning so I reduced the water intake amount due to the tea drunk and a whole orange eaten; dosages of tea, orange and rind, and water may need to be adjusted for each individual based upon the body mass } once gastrointestinal pain occurred and I felt that I was going to faint so I lay down to increase blood pressure to my brain while continuing to sip water which came back out in the consequent diarrhea ) and having no externally visible rash ( I wondered about the back of my nose and my throat having a rash, though, because I felt as if they had been sanded and their skin peeled off, giving me pain as how after a fall, a scraped knee hurts.)


Low blood pressure

Abdominal (gut) pain



Neck pain


Chest tightness/pain

Feeling very tired

I wonder whether the symptoms had come from a massive immune systemic response to SARS_CoV-2 infection, perhaps unleashing a cytokine storm. I haven't been sick even once since the tail end of the 2009-2010 H1N1 flu pandemic ( in the whack-a-mole game of people avoiding the H1N1 hammer blows, I poked my head up a bit too early and caught the blow from a children's "bioweapon germ factory" { in which boogers had probably been smeared under the desks and tables because of the rule to maintain the "stability" of seating; of course, how did Winnie the Pooh get its yellowed bottom without wearing any underwear pants ? No permission was given the child to allow leaving the station designed for learning bladder control } with well-traveled/travelled global connections after the year-end winter vacation ) so I was surprised by how bad this bout of suspected CoViD-19 got--the chest tightness/pain was the worst symptom to bear. I felt as if a sharp object was poking into my back and I was about to faint.


Do ghosts haunt their killers in their lives ? Dīno Rum's-felt got this fact right: "Things happen." "If you don't know what you're doing, any road will get you there [i.e. mass deaths of your charge]." The world of quantum is inherently reversible with change in { entropy S=k ln W } being zero; S final minus S initial is zero due to the complexion W final = W initial because time t, being a statistical idea dS/dt >= 0, doesn't exist in the quantum realm ( dS/dt = 0 or dW/dt = 0 ) which is usually microscopic but manifests itself in our macroscopic realm via coherence. Measurement or equivalently communication operators operating on quantum states creates our macroscopic physical reality. Hermetically sealing off borders prolongs the stability of states, hermit kingdom DPRK hasn't collapsed yet due to the many sanctions on it creating the so-called "foreign enemies" promoting internal unity and with Red China's Great Infowall, Red China still lives on very well with its massive parasitic Communist Party over China zombie-like infection. How the dudes in the video clapped in synchrony is disturbing because in [formerly British-governed] Hong Kong where I had come from, we clapped in synchrony to signal our massive displeasure with the idiots' performance. Withdrawal from Red China of Western media propagating the voice of the Red Chinese people helped stabilize it. Sanctions on rogue states stabilize our restive world until.. decoherence by the ghosts on Good-Fry Day and on the third day, "I'll be back." Isn't it interesting that the greatest destroyers of human lives are all atheists on a fundamental level ? Recall the 2 Corinthians and the 1 Corinthians ?

Intelligent governance requires circumspection of the environment which changes and eliciting the new and proper behavior. Hong Kong, for example, couldn't have become the World's 3-D vertical city if my Big Brother's and my generation didn't kick hard at some people's bad, disgusting, and at times deadly habit of tossing out unwanted things from their high-rise buildings. Providing people with their own in-apartment toilets instead of a centralized one situated a long walk away largely stopped their just tossing it over the side of the building to the sidewalk/pavement below.

God knows that I was actually baptized thrice by a: bidét ( one needs to know the connection of the button and the incompressibility of freshly squeezed orange juice,) chamber pot ( I was no vegetable { maybe a golden boy already } needing any fertilizing with liquid gold { in my shantytown on a plot of farmland flanked on the northern and western side by the main entrance walkway path on the level above the garbage/rubbish dump, the farmer fertilized her vegetables with urinary solution early in the morning because I could smell it from my play station at the dump on the level below,} ) and "¿bathtub?" in a church. I could distinguish different kinds of "liquid gold !" Although we were threatened with total annihilation ( for me, since the Cuban Missile Crisis when my Big Brother scared me with what he had read in the newspaper when he talked with my Mom regarding the billions upon billions of tiny atoms releasing their flea-like { hair-raising to me as upstairs' dog's fleas often bit us, } wrath, ) we didn't get annihilated but were blessed with the longest period of peace among world's major powers. Peace begets prosperity.

Providing young children with an ample supply of facial tissue paper in early grade schools may avoid their writing Boogerese hieroglyphic messages under their desks, tables, and chairs. Having discovered their origin, I saw absolutely no divine message in them, except for an opportunity to govern well.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

A cretin "Vomiting Diarrhea" maybe sums U up grapes? Per OP, ie. The 99% v The Speculators:

ad iudicium?!

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 2 years ago

What the World needed in January, February, and March of 2020 was exactly "the vomiting diarrhea" with 99%-majority masturbating ( for the last-resort poor-woman's and poor-man's nor-epinephrin/adrenalin self-administering to open up their own airways for breathing ) characteristics, not the kingly bullshit and cover-ups of the Capitals of Red China, Russia, U.S.A., and U.N.'s W.H.O. Moscow, ["Arctic"] Beijing, United States of America Washington District of Columbia, and Geneva all knew of the Kings' Flu epidemic spinning out of control from the belly-button lint of Winnie the Pooh.

If you can't breathe due to having contracted a severe case of CoViD-19, taking Sudafed(R) containing epinephrine can open up your airways to allow you to breathe better. Of course, if you are in a real pinch or just being unprepared or poor, you can go for pushing Nature's emergency relief button located at your genitalia to achieve an orgasm for an emergency dose of nor-epinephrine/adrenalin. Emergency Medical Technicians sometimes inject their patient who is under great distress with a shot of adrenalin to support and revitalize them ( to be used sparingly, for there are ill effects if done in excess because one is drawing upon life's nearly last reserves, which of course become quite useless anyway if one should die so it may well be worth a try; many powerful medicines are in fact lethal poisons in larger quantities; the art to kill is also the art to heal if it is harnessed by a proper intent.)

Remember this lesson from Jesus if you have any religious qualms about self-administering masturbation: Jesus rescued a sheep on a sabbath ( breaking Jewish religious law.) When being confronted by the other [strictly observant] Jews, what did Jesus say ?

Yes, Christianity is all about transcendence beyond Judaism of the Old Testament in order to save the lost sheep given to Jesus by God, as the New Testament had been created. The human pleasure-reward circuit with a red emergency button located at our genitalia is what God had left with human beings to ensure them a form of eternal life despite certain death over time: a zest for eating, fucking, and making children; for there is Love, which may transcend justice. We all die ( the choice to eat of the fruits of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ensured our eventual deaths, for God can't renege on the death sentences and still be just ) but what grew out of our fucking, our children, may carry on. God tried to make the best of the serpent's-jealousy-corrupted situation by making, for Adam and Eve, the better and more comfortable clothes out of fur ( to replace their self-made coverings made of twigs and leaves ) when Adam and Eve became ashamed of their God-made cleavage handiwork - their genitalia - after their eyes had been opened following the eating of the forbidden fruit at the behest of the serpent.

Our genitalia originated from Adam's idea of becoming like the animals so God's covering them up with animal fur clothings was a patch to avoid the ugliness in Adam and Eve's eyes. "Your eyes will be opened, you will become like gods, and you will not surely die," said the serpent but "You will surely die," said God. Human cravings for food and sex is a form of fire to sustain and drive life, a certain kind of quantum-state computational process involving largely primordial water, onward ( as marked daily in Hong Kong for me playing in the garbage dump without wearing a watch to know when to come home to my Mom for eating lunch; the explosions to dislodge the rocks from Diamond Hill to extend the runway to over 10,000 feet long in Kai-Tak Airport to accommodate Boeing-747 jumbo jets were probably not ( due to its likely timing irregularity ) the source of what I had heard regularly near lunchtime ) as well as to be reasonably controlled for Good. Many customs, rituals, and traditions worldwide resulted from that necessary societal control. The ancient Greeks were apparently favored to make many early discoveries because they weren't hampered by "the ugliness." Their being ancient definitely gave them an advantage in being the first ones alright. Another factor was that they the males had leisure and symposia ( where they imbibed together and did things "togethim.") They had slaves doing the hard work. In our modern academia, professors have graduate students doing the tedious work so professors make discoveries. Likewise, mathematicians nowadays have computers and algorithms doing the tedious work so mathematicians make discoveries. There are indeed levels to be achieved during the bootstrapping process to create a highly prosperous modern society. Here's a hint as to why Germany rapidly grew to challenge so many apparently great colonial empires: the word "kindergarten" is German in origin. Craftsmanship only comes from healthy educated people ( note that education doesn't necessarily mean book-type learning; Germany got by very well without great hordes of highly college-educated people as the U.S. had but Germans had more apprenticeship-like type of learning as my Dad had admired before when he was fussing about getting me fledged; of course, when things change rapidly, a more highly college-educated person can often understand and adapt quicker than an apprentice can; innovations tend to happen if users interact with the people highly knowledgeable about the thing and its environment at issue as well as the various degrees of freedom 《in physicists' language》 or equivalently variables 《in mathematicians' language》. ) Hopefully, there isn't much Boogerese hieroglyph written in New Egyptian font under the desks and tables by the kindergartners before they've learnt about using facial tissue paper/[old-time-Hong-Kong] handkerchiefs. Using a lot of different kinds of disposable paper goods was a big cultural change for me arriving in the U.S. fresh from an airplane. There seemed to be a special type of paper to be used for every type of need: paper towels, paper napkins, facial tissue paper, bottom tissue paper, double-ply, single-ply, scented, unscented, textured, plain, absorbent, super-absorbent, "squeezably" soft, wax baking paper, etc.

Of course, a society's environment can differ from another society's so there are definitely differences to be respected and observed if one crosses a cultural boundary. At first, assume that there was a valid reason for the peculiarity but often a cultural choice was totally arbitrary ( e.g. the meaning of clapping in synchrony was certainly different between Hong Kongers and the Red Chinese mainlanders; I remember clapping in synchrony was done in my childhood in Hong Kong to express our displeasure at the idiots' performance so I was a bit surprised at the Red Chinese version being done in the Forbidden Palace; hmm.. it piques my interest -- have Hong Kongers switched over to the Red Chinese version's meaning yet ? ) or made to serve the selfish interests of the ones in power who may one day no longer be so. Then such a choice though already made in Munich about Kristallnacht can be changed.

My coastal clan built its wealth with bacalao shipped to northern Europe. Our lineage staying put close to the coast was nearly wiped out in the revenge by sea of the reincarnated fish. Karma. Only my Dad being the youngest heir ( and the global pinball being launched once again on perhaps the ship called Empire Haven from Hong Kong ) survived, as he was very far away from home. Wo ging unsre Hoffnung ? Asian lives matter. First Opium War began the century of humiliation for China. The tit-for-tat reverberations from Chinese pirates ( or maybe just the discontented fishing residents of Hong Kong ) resulted in the Second Opium War and more ensuing conflicts which persisted to this day. Red China must be bloody-nosed to teach it that its disregarding its promises shall result in even more humiliations. Hong Kongers can destroy Shenzhen after two Red Chinese aircraft carriers have been sunk as the CCP treasures PLA lives dearly so it will retreat for sure.

美国现在强大啦 ! as Teddy Roosevelt the Nobel Peace Prize winner has long been dead ( according to CCP's treaty logic; Russian Far East actually belongs to the [Jews-controlled-per-the-Palestinians] U.S. due to the formation of the first modern autonomous region of the Jews there, long before Israel was founded; similarly, Hong Kong actually belongs to the U.S. due to the Jews there such as the philanthropic Kadoorie clan's "Kadoorie Farm and Botanical Gardens was set up to promote greater environmental awareness and a higher social conscienceless;" the U.S. must no longer suffer our Centuries of Humiliation so we must reclaim all Jewish homelands worldwide to form trans-Israel close to the D.P.R.K.) so Manchuria will be up for grabs ( India can annex Tibet next to it instead as geographical distance matters.) Russia and Japan, heads up and take notes. Japan's overseas lifelines might be cut off so it must strike out or die. [Currently] Russian Far East { formerly of Qing China's, now being eyed by "Arctic" Beijing } is also a very enticing option nearby for volcanic Japanese archipelago to conquer. There's oil there. Do you recall why Japan had sneak-attacked Pearl Harbor in order to drive towards Indonesia to secure its oil supply ? Iran can similarly become the new colony of Red China ( because of Iran's oil--to be sent over a land route, in exchange for...)

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Wherever your "genitalia" originated OR what U do with it .. is of ZER0 concern of mine tbh, gripes,

U total fkn loon! Furthermore and please note, much more in keeping with agk's OP; try to consider:

Keep adding crap to your existing b-s all U like gripes but U can rest assured that no one is trading it.

ad iudicium?