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Forum Post: Mitt Romney's magic Mormon underwear

Posted 2 years ago on Nov. 10, 2011, 2:26 p.m. EST by alouis (1511) from New York, NY
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106 Comments

106 Comments


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[-] 5 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

I just can't equate the underwear issue with anything of importance...just as seeking knowledge about whether or not the other candidates from either part wear boxers or briefs would have no equation with anything of import.

We all have the right to believe what we believe, Mormon, Catholic, Wiccan or atheist (or in this case not believe).

Shall we get back to the issues?

[-] 2 points by alexrai (851) 2 years ago

Well it seems to be less of an issue now then when George Romney tried to get the nomination in the late 1960s.

Although not one bit less amusing... :p

... either way I'm still a lot more frightened of his view on foreign policy than his brand of underwear.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

Sigh...me too...

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Will This Election Be the Mormon Breakthrough? Published: November 12, 2011 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/13/opinion/sunday/will-this-election-be-the-mormon-breakthrough.html?pagewanted=3

(Page 3 of 3)

The 19th-century Mormon theologian Orson Pratt, who was close both to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, stated a principle the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has never repudiated: “Any people attempting to govern themselves by laws of their own making, and by officers of their own appointment, are in direct rebellion against the kingdom of God.”

Mormons earn godhead though their own efforts, hoping to join the plurality of gods, even as they insist they are not polytheists. No Mormon need fall into the fundamentalist denial of evolution, because the Mormon God is not a creator. Imaginatively liberating as this may be, its political implications are troublesome. The Mormon patriarch, secure in his marriage and large family, is promised by his faith a final ascension to godhead, with a planet all his own separate from the earth and nation where he now dwells. From the perspective of the White House, how would the nation and the world appear to President Romney? How would he represent the other 98 percent of his citizens?

Other Christians look askance at Mr. Romney and have no trouble saying so. Because of his religion, they will vote only reluctantly for him, or even not vote at all. One of the recent grace notes of our politics was sounded by the ebullient Robert Jeffress, senior pastor of First Baptist Dallas, which boasts 10,000 members. Mr. Jeffress pronounced that the Mormons were a non-Christian cult, as he endorsed his favorite candidate, Gov. Rick Perry, a Christian statesman.

Mr. Perry gently demurred at Mr. Jeffress’s dictum, indicating also that he did not endorse the pastor’s assertion that the Roman Catholic Church was “the Scarlet Harlot,” presumably the Whore of Babylon in the Book of Revelation. Whatever his tactical sleights, the Texas governor displays a continuous religiosity, unlikely to divert secular Republicans clustered in gated exurbia and gracious Eastern suburbs.

We can be certain that President Obama will not care to address these arcane matters in his debates with Mr. Romney. Doubtless Mr. Obama’s Christianity is sincere, but happily it is irrelevant to his governing style and aspirations. There appear to be no secular seeming Republicans running for the White House, except, ironically, Mr. Huntsman.

Mormonism’s best inheritance from Joseph Smith was his passion for education, hardly evident in the anti-intellectual and semi-literate Southern Baptist Convention. I wonder though which is more dangerous, a knowledge-hungry religious zealotry or a proudly stupid one? Either way we are condemned to remain a plutocracy and oligarchy. I can be forgiven for dreading a further strengthening of theocracy in that powerful brew.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

We have already been experiencing the theocratic view, just look around. That's part of what this is all about, it's just not the loudest part.

[-] -2 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

If the next president is a member of a religion that has a living prophet who can rewrite sacred texts (polygamy ooops, er no polygamy-black people not fully human-- ooops er, they are human) and have secret beliefs and practices and are so superstitious ass to believe that special underwear wards off harm, I think it matters.

But yes they are free to believe what they like.

[-] 5 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

I remember when Kennedy was elected and the biggest worry noise was over his being an Irish Catholic, how we'd all have to attend mass and the church was going to 'take over America'. Kennedy had the moral fiber to state, "My Church is my Church and My Country is My Country and I am here to serve My Country."

The 'magic underwear' has nothing to do with politics it is the same as the fear once expressed over the Catholic 'threat'.

Mitt is not the material we are looking for as a leader in my estimation, simple because of his views and lack of commitment, not because of his underwear.

[-] -1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I think a person's beliefs are his beliefs. Mitt comes out of a church that relatively recently practiced polygamy and was unmistakably a racist church when he was a bishop of that same church. If he believes he wears lucky underpants I don't want his finger near the nuclear trigger.

I also have trouble with the Mormons with their secret rituals, secret doctrines and gross dishonest evasiveness (talk to a Mormon missionary) about the recent histroy of polygamy and racism.

Top that off with a "living prophet" who can get a revelation and rewrite their "bible." like it was rewritten to oppose polygamy. This is a secetive cult that is growing very rapidly in numbers and influence. I don't feel comfortable about that.

[-] 4 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

I merely point out that religious prejudice is still prejudice.

I have Mormon friends, we don't discuss religion, that is why we can remain friends.

[-] -1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

"Prejudice" is a decision made without information. I'm sure there are many very pleasant Mormons. Their beleifs, though are not my cup of tea. That's not a judgement made without information.

[-] 2 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

People sometimes take the word prejudice as a religious, racist or cultural item, yet it's a word that covers far more than that...sometimes it's not even a bad word.

I can be prejudice about snow or rain, or any number of things, I can be prejudice in favor of something.

It's not a decision without information, it's a decision for or against something that hits on a 'gut' level, even when it's something as dumb as a reference to 'magic underwear'.

I don't pay much attention to the religions of others, unless of course they are 'pushing an agenda' related to that religion.

I find the religious references when debating issues, to be misdirecting, unless of course the issue being debated is religion.

Somehow, magic underwear just doesn't seem like a debate point, not even if there weren't more pressing issues aplenty.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

"Prejudice" as I understand it is making a judgement about a person or group prior (pre) having facts. I have a lot of facts about Mormonism, enough to have formed an opinion that it is a dangerous cult. Therefor if someone presents as an observant Mormon I can conclude that she either believes these things (like lucky drawers) or maybe is ignorant. Now, this person might be pleasant, polite, have a great sense of humor, mind your kids while you go to the store, but this person is a member of a dangerous cult.

[-] 2 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

The word cult when used as it has been recently has ugly connotations.

Catholicism was once the only sect related to Christianity, it was THE CHURCH, it is the one that is approximately 1700 years old. By that reckoning every other branch of Christianity is a cult.

Mormons DO pay their taxes without complaint, other sects do so grudgingly if at all, Mormons DO serve in the Armed Forces, other sects do so grudgingly if at all.

I am not defending Mormons as much as I am against labeling.

You are entitled to your opinions and to voice them, but to begin labeling others negatively is nonproductive for all.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The word does have very negative connotations. I'd place Mormonism in the category of a cult for its secretiveness and the fact that there is a man alive who as their prophet, and he can literally rewrite their sacred text.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

well, in fact if someone beleives in magical underwear and wants to be president, well that matters. And if he's a member of a secretive cult that tries to dissemble about its practices and beliefs, and quite recent history of racism it's a bigger problem.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

Then the issues should be the racism not the underwear.

All religions were cults at one time, it's popular acceptance that changed the label.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

A superstitious world view and lots of lying too. Not inconsistent with their racism. The underwear thing is not made up and it brings attention to the whole Mormon issue. My initial post pointed to their racism.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

Some would argue that all religion is a superstitious world view. Others would consider that lots of lying also.

I just think there are more important things to consider than religion or lack there of when it comes to politics.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

There are many things to consider. Wearing lucky underwear and being a member of a racist cult whose founder claimed to be a direct descendent of Jesus Christ !!!?? a current living prophet who talks with God is something to ponder in a man who can declare war at will and order executions without trials or even indictments. Scary stuff.

http://nowscape.com/mormon/negro.htm

[-] 1 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 2 years ago

Within this thread replace the word "Mormon" with the word "Muslim" and see where the discussion goes

[-] 2 points by dugfmjamul (101) 2 years ago

What you don't understand is progressives support Islam and defend Islam against any criticism or attacks that would not see Islam as 'Reformist Islam' (a benign form of Islam that attempts to make Islam more benign than it really is). Progressives want all laypersons to treat Islam as 'Reformist Islam' or risk being labeled and suffering from 'Islamic phobia'. Mormons get no such support from progressives due to their anti-gay stances.

[-] 1 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 2 years ago

So, Muslims are pro-gay?

[-] 2 points by dugfmjamul (101) 2 years ago

No, but Islam has some aspects of socialism and progressives support 'Reformist Islam' to bring down the capitalist system in a lame effort to establish a progressive democratic state. Of course this logic backfires and groups like the Muslim Brotherhood establish 'Sharia' based on the 'Fundamentals' of Islam leaving the progressives once looking stupid.

[-] 1 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 2 years ago

Well then, that explains it all. /s

[-] 1 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 2 years ago

Gee, the discussion stopped once the words were replaced. Dug...you must be correct. I never quite looked at it that way before. If replacing just one word changes the whole concept, I've always thought of bigotry. Sort of what's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Your theory is worth thinking about.

[-] 1 points by dugfmjamul (101) 2 years ago

Of course I'm correct, but don't expect a progressive to admit to my 'theory' because it won't happen. Progressives are under strict marching orders to NOT validate conservative thought or talking points for fear of validating the conservative 'world view', while demolishing theirs. The only 'consensus' you will ever have with a progressive is when you agree or acknowledge their views, it makes for frustrating conversation and the false hope they might actually change their behavior for the good of the nation.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The discussion didn't stop, but I did have to leave for work (I work at night). I'm back.

[-] -1 points by oldfatrobby (129) 2 years ago

Muslims are pro-gay decapitation.

Tthere are no gays in Muslim countries.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I do believe that Islam is as anti gay as are other religions. I don't consider myself a supporter of Islam but I do believe that Islam, as a religion with a long history (unlike Mormonism, which is still a cult) basically of oppressed and colonized people (unlike Mormonism which only in 1978 put aside some of its public and open racism) that has to an extent served as a framework for resistance should be defended from attacks, especially by those who are aiming to subjugat Muslim countries and take their resources.

Mormonism, which was born in the age of Lincoln is profoundly anti democratic. We're not talking about something a prophet was supposed to have said three thousand years ago: The 19th-century Mormon theologian Orson Pratt, who was close both to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, stated a principle the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has never repudiated: “Any people attempting to govern themselves by laws of their own making, and by officers of their own appointment, are in direct rebellion against the kingdom of God.”

[-] 1 points by dugfmjamul (101) 2 years ago

'anti-Gay' is too nice of a word to describe Islam when it demands the execution of homosexuals. Islam sanctions institutionalized racism thru 'strict' adherence to the 'Sharia', it humiliates and makes second-class citizens out of women, Jews and Christians. But it treats women primary as sexual objects to be used by men whenever men feel like it, if not women can be beaten 'lightly' as commanded by the Qur'an.

The conundrum between Islam and racism is something progressives have rationalized thru 'Reformist Islam', redefining Islam to be more benign than it really is has been a progressive goal since the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

I like many other Christians know Mormonism, like the JWs are a cult of Christianity but it is as 'American' as 'Apple Pie' and should not be treated by the same standard as we should treat Islam.

True, Mormonism is anti-Democratic and for very good reasons other than their theology. Mormons felt the rage of 'democracy' as the Majority in each town, city and State turned against them treating them harshly without the protection of the 'rule of law'. I'm sure throughout history some true 'Republicans' tried to help and protect the Rights of Mormons under constitutional principles, but 'democracy' has always been the enemy of the 'minority'....I HATE DEMOCRACY!

Mormons unlike Muslims do not make 'Jihad' against the Infidels, they just have short haircuts within white shirts while wearing black ties and slacks riding their bicycles door to door in the vain effort to convert the ignorant layperson or disenfranchised.

We in the West have nothing to fear from Mormons, but Islam is another matter...

Sura 2 - Al-Baqara (MADINA) : Verse 27 Those who break Allâh's Covenant after ratifying it, and sever what Allâh has ordered to be joined (as regards Allâh's religion of Islâmic Monotheism, and to practise its legal laws on the earth and also as regards keeping good relations with kith and kin []), and do mischief on earth, it is they who are the losers.

Sura 72 - Al-Jinn (MAKKA) : Verse 17 That We might try them thereby. And whosoever turns away from the Reminder of his Lord (i.e. this Qur'ân — and practise not its laws and orders), He will cause him to enter in a severe torment (i.e. Hell).

Sura 9.05 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Muslim:C9B1N33 - "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Read the Old Testament and the Talmud. Equally as bloodthirsty. I would not want someone who will implement these laws to be president of the United States.

Why were Mormons so hated? I heard an interesting theory having to do with the fact that they were sober and polygamous. Poor women often had the prospect of having 100% of a pauper for a husband. (Or no husband). In running away to the Mormons, she could be a part of a family that had other women to step in for her children were she to become ill, injured or dead and at least the patriarch didn't drink, gamble, or waste the family's money on coffee, tea, tobacco. So I could see how the menfolk in communities where Mormons were passing through would not take kindly to them. Just a theory I was told about. What do you think?

Mormons are highly represented in the military and FBI, etc. They are a cult. Think.

PS- Moslems do tolerate other "people of the book" that is Christians, Jews and Hindus.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Islam is a religion that has a long history and sacred texts that over a billion people believe are true. Mormonism has a living prophet who can revise and turn on a dime the texts, beliefs, practices of the flock. that makes Mormonism quite different from the Islam of now. For the record I would not want to live in a Muslim theocracy. At least though I'd know what the beliefs of the PTB are. Islam also is a religion that is embraced by mainly oppressed and formerly colonized peoples and it provides a manner of self defense. You won't find many Amreicans going to Saudi Arabia to have low cost casual sex with children, for instance.

[-] 1 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 2 years ago

So, since Islam has a longer history it is OK to denigrate Mormons? In that case it is OK for Catholics to slam Islam because they are older. Well, at least we can't blame the Crusades on the Mormons. Nice to know there is a pecking order.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Well, Islam has certain texts that are quite old, and there is no one alive today who is authorized to revise them. These texts predate the Enlightenment and the French and American revolutions. Islam unlike Mormonism is not a cult, whatever else one might say about it. Mormonism, profoundly antidemocratic, originated at a time when history was advancing to ideas of freedom for ordinary people, and slavery was about to be violently eradicated. The President, or Living Prophet of the Mormons can get a revelation and change any part of their religion. That's what makes it a cult and that's what makes it different from Islam, Judaism and Christianity. Mormons renounced polygamy in 1890, a 180 degree turn. http://www.mrm.org/polygamy

[-] 1 points by TheFred (43) from Clinton, IL 2 years ago

Do you feel the same way about Scientology and Kirsty Alley, John Trivolta, Tom Cruise? It's OK to denigrate them?

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

If they run for President, I have a problem with that.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

That cult is batshit insane. When your "beliefs" leads to this:

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/

I have a problem with you.

All of these religions are bullshit. They are holdovers from earlier times, when people needed explanations for things that science hadn't figured out yet, and monarchs needed a method for controlling the populace.

[-] 0 points by JohnsonJaimes (260) from Sanibel, FL 2 years ago

Also not to mention their bashing of gay rights by supporting and/or creating their support of Prop 8 in a state not "their own".

[-] -1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

true

[-] 3 points by MormonOccupier (3) from Raleigh, NC 2 years ago

I will put in my two cents: I'm an active Mormon and an avid participant, supporter, and defender of Occupy Wall Street.

There is no doubt that it is easy to make the Mormon faith look stupid through careful decontextualization. No group is free from this, however--anyone or anything can be made to look silly/dangerous.

I am against Romney not because of his personal religion but because of his horrible ideas. Shouldn't that be the criterion?

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Look, I have no problem with you or even Romney believing in the things you believe in. It's your perfect right to beleive anything you want to believe. I just don't want either of you to be President. While I respect your right to have any beliefs you may choose, I insist that my right not to respect those beliefs in themselves is as sacred a right as your is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opinion/dowd-anne-frank-a-mormon.html?_r=1 At an appearance at George Washington University here Saturday night, Bill Maher bounded into territory that the news media have been gingerly tiptoeing around.

Magic underwear. Baptizing dead people. Celestial marriages. Private planets. Racism. Polygamy.

“By any standard, Mormonism is more ridiculous than any other religion,” asserted the famously nonbelieving comic who skewered the “fairy tales” of several faiths in his documentary “Religulous.” “It’s a religion founded on the idea of polygamy. They call it The Principle. That sounds like The Prime Directive in ‘Star Trek.’ ”

He said he expects the Romney crowd — fighting back after Robert Jeffress, a Texas Baptist pastor supporting Rick Perry, labeled Mormonism a non-Christian “cult” — to once more “gloss over the differences between Christians and Mormons.”

Maher was not easy on the religion he was raised in either. He referred to the Roman Catholic Church as “an international child sex ring.”

But atheists, like Catholics and evangelical Christians, seem especially wary of Mormons, dubbed the “ultimate shape-shifters” by Maher.

In a Washington Post-Pew Research Center poll released on Tuesday, people were asked what single word came to mind for Republican candidates. For Herman Cain it was 9-9-9; for Rick Perry, Texas; and for Mitt Romney, Mormon. In the debate Tuesday night, Romney said it was repugnant that “we should choose people based on their religion.”

In The Times on Sunday, Sheryl Gay Stolberg chronicled Romney’s role as a bishop in Boston often giving imperious pastoral guidance on everything from divorce to abortion.

Stolberg reported that Romney, who would later run for Senate as a supporter of abortion rights against Teddy Kennedy and then flip to oppose those rights in Republican presidential primaries, showed up unannounced at a hospital in his role as bishop. He “sternly” warned a married mother of four, who was considering terminating a pregnancy because of a potentially dangerous blood clot, not to go forward.

[-] 2 points by ShubeLMorgan2 (1088) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Mormons are not the most honest folks you are likely to meet.

LDS says they no longer practice polygamy but this is one matter on which they have historically lied flat out.

http://www.exmormon.org/lying.htm

Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle, "Gospel Teachings About Lying", Clark Memorandum BYU (Spring 1994 pg. 16-17). In this Oaks acknowledges 'Lying for the Lord' by early Mormon leaders. Joseph Smith lied about many of his activities and the overwhelming historical evidence forced Oaks to admit the lies. Among Mormons and former Mormons it has become known as "Lying for the Lord".

Bribery was OK: Journal of Discources vol. 9:4-5

Mormon killing of women and children: Mountains Meadow Massacre 29 Sep. 1857, which was consistent with Mormon teachings of blood atonement. This is well described in the book by the same title by Juanita Brooks, Stanford University Press 1950. The Circleville Massacre (Utah Historical Quarterly, Winter 1987 pgs 4-21). This describes Mormon militiamen shooting males, while slitting the throats of women and children, identical to the pattern of in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. " 'Wild Bill' Hickman and the Mormon Frontier". Signature Books 1988. Adulterous relationships later revised to be plural marriages

Again, from Mormon Hierarchy... In 1838 Cowdery broke a confidence and spoke to others about the "dirty, nasty, filthy affair of his [Joseph Smith's] and Fanny Algers". Fanny Alger was the prophet's first secret plural wife from early 1833 to mid-1836. This shows Cowdery's long standing bitterness at Smith's double-standard condemnation of Cowdery's "evils" while the prophet was at the same time in a polygamous relationship with Fanny Alger. See "Mormon Polygamy: A History", Signature Books 1985. Another excellent reference to Smith's adulterous affairs which were later "revised" to be plural marriages is in the book "Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith", University of Illinois Press 1994. Smith's secret polygamy put him in conflict not only with Cowdery but with every other member of the First Presidency... First counselor Sidney Rigdon withdrew into sullen inactivity for two years after Smith first (unsuccessfully) proposed polygamy to his daughter...

John Taylor - apostle and later a Prophet

This is from a post in the exmormon mail list about John Taylor. The "I" refers to Richard Packham. I had told how one of the things that led me to question was seeing a missionary tract among my grandfather's missionary papers which was a report of a debate in 1850 in England between John Taylor (then an Apostle) and a Protestant minister, in which the minister accused the Mormons of practicing polygamy. Taylor responded that such a base and vile accusation was a lie, and proved the lie by quoting the D&C section (as it was then published) affirming monogamy as the only form of Mormon marriage. What shook my faith was the realization that Taylor was lying, having multiple wives waiting for him in Utah at that very moment.

Several months ago somebody asked me about that tract. I had searched my folks' things last summer when I was home, trying to find it, but without luck. I knew I had seen it, because it had made such an impression on me. I had to answer the inquiry by saying that I could not prove that Taylor had said that.

But I have found it! Not the copy of the tract that my grandfather had owned, but another copy of it. It is reproduced in Orson Pratt's Works, and a photocopy is in Sharon Banister's great handbook "For Any Latter-day Saint" at page 288-298. There Taylor says, in 1850: "We are accused here of polygamy, and actions the most indelicate, obscene, and disgusting, such than [sic] none but a corrupt and depraved heart could have contrived. These things are too outrageous to admit of belief; therefore ... I shall content myself by reading our views of chastity and marriage, from a work published by us, containing some of the articles of our Faith. 'Doctrine and Coventants,' page 330. [1850 version] ... Inasmuch as this Church of Jesus Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again..."

Here are the women to whom John Taylor was married at that time, listed from D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: [vol. 1] Origins of Power, p 597:

Leonora Cannon, md 1833, 4 children Elizabeth Kaighin, md 1843, 3 children Jane Ballantyne, md 1844, 3 children Anna Ballantyne (Allen), md 1844, separated 1845, divorced 1852 Mary A. Oakley, md 1845, 5 children Mary A. Utley, md 1846 Mary Ramsbottom, md 1846 Sarah Thornton (Coleman) md 1846, div 1852 Lydia Dible (Granger Smith), md 1846 Ann Hughlings (Pitchforth), md 1846 Sophia Whittaker, md 1847, 8 children Harriet Whittaker, md 1847, 3 children

He had also been married to Mercy R. Fielding (Thompson Smith) for 2 years, 1845-1847.

So much for the outrageous accusations!

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by ShubeLMorgan2 (1088) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Book: Mormon Bishop Mitt Romney threatened to excommunicate young single mom if she didn’t give up baby

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2012/01/11/book-mormon-bishop-mitt-romney-threatened-to-excommunicate-young-single-mom-if-she-didnt-give-up-baby/

[-] 1 points by ShubeLMorgan2 (1088) from New York, NY 1 year ago

This is an oldie but goodie. See in the comments how the mormons got vanquished and left the field.

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Given Mormon propensity to lie especially about polygamy how do we really know that Romney is monogamous?

http://www.lds-mormon.com/mormon_bigamy.shtml

Much unsaid as Romney cites his tie to Mexico By Michael Kranish Globe Staff / January 31, 2012 E-mail|Print|Reprints|Comments (151) Text size – +

60 1

ShareThis1509 MIAMI - Mitt Romney, who rarely discusses his ancestry, has repeated a striking comment in Florida in recent days to soften his rhetoric about immigration and woo the crucial Hispanic voting bloc.

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Republican presidential candidates in Florida

Much unsaid as Romney cites his tie to Mexico Fla. primary's big prize likely to go to Romney Romney confident as Florida prepares to vote If Gingrich loses in Fla., can he come back again? 'Super' PACs set to disclose big donors Tuesday Gingrich making final push for Florida primary votes A look at Florida as it holds its primary Fla. broke rules to gain influence on nomination Boston lawyer keeps steady hand on Romney’s funds Romney reaches out to Hispanic voters | Video Ann Romney provides more than silent testimony Polls | More Politics coverage Raise Your Voice Click to write to the presidential candidates. “My dad was born in Mexico,’’ Romney says at many campaign stops, as he expresses empathy and solidarity with immigrant families. It follows sharp rhetoric in places such as Iowa, where he decried what he called efforts to provide “amnesty’’ to the nation’s 12 million illegal immigrants.

The story of Romney’s father, George, is one that many Cuban-Americans can relate to in this city of immigrants: A revolution sweeps through the homeland, prompting an exodus of people who, in many cases, left behind everything to come to the United States. But in this case, George Romney’s country of birth was Mexico, not Fidel Castro’s Cuba.

The issue of immigration is especially sensitive in Florida, where Hispanics make up 11 percent of the Republican primary electorate, and could provide the key to victory in today’s primary. Romney’s chief challenger, Newt Gingrich, has called Romney anti-immigrant; Romney said the charge was repulsive.

It is in this context that Romney has mentioned that he is the child of a born-in-Mexico father. But he usually ends the story there, failing to explain the circumstances or, even more strikingly, why it might be relevant to those he is trying to win over.

Were he to tell the rest of the story, it doubtless would resonate with many here: George Romney was born in Mexico and was 5 years old when a revolution forced his family members in 1912 to flee their Mormon colony and seek refuge in the United States. The Mormon exiles lost their homes, farms, and most of their belongings, were welcomed by the United States, and benefited from a $100,000 refugee fund established by Congress.

But there are other elements to the Romney story that may explain why he doesn’t tell the full tale on the campaign trail. The reason that George was born in Mexico is that his grandfather - Mitt’s great-grandfather - had taken refuge there in order to escape US laws against polygamy. It was this family patriarch, Miles Park Romney, who established the colony and lived there with four wives.

Mitt Romney has decried what he has called the “awful’’ practice of polygamy and has never visited the colony, even though several dozen of his cousins continue to live there.

Romney’s new emphasis on his father’s roots drew the attention yesterday of a host on “Fox and Friends,’’ who said during an interview with Romney that it was the first time he had heard the former Massachusetts governor discuss that aspect of his ancestry.

Asked whether the discussion was “helping you with the Latino community in Florida,’’ Romney responded, “You know, I wish I could claim that I’m Hispanic and that would help me in the Latino community here in Florida and around the country, but my dad was born of American parents living in Mexico. So he was Anglo at the time and yet, I’m very proud of the fact that he came to this country at a critical time, was helped to get on his feet by folks in this country.’’Continued...

http://www.lds-mormon.com/polygamy.shtml

http://www.lds-mormon.com/quinn_polygamy.shtml

http://www.lds-mormon.com/quinn_dialogue.shtml

http://www.lds-mormon.com/mormon_plural_marriage.shtml

http://www.lds-mormon.com/post_manifesto_polygamy.shtml

http://www.lds-mormon.com/new_plural_marriages.shtml

http://www.lds-mormon.com/second_manifesto.shtml

http://www.lds-mormon.com/mormon_bigamy.shtml

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

lets not be hypocrates here, but lets be the first to ask the Lord Jesus at his return if he is wearing red thong underwear, or else why mention it at all? Truth is the underwear is a symbol of a promise made between that man and God, to live his life according to the law of the gospel and to teach his children to do the same, much like a wedding ring is a symbol of promise to commit oneself to one spouse. Ignorance everywhere you go.

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[-] 1 points by ShubeLMorgan2 (1088) from New York, NY 2 years ago

<http://www.mormon-underwear.com/images.html>

They come in pink.

[-] 1 points by tasmlab (58) from Amesbury, MA 2 years ago

Religions devised during the bronze age when the outhouse and wheelbarrow were stunning technological developments are much more legit than ones only invented a century or so ago. That goes double for any invented in the past 100 years. </sarcasm>

Romney shouldn't be of any interest to OWS except as a face for the bank/govt collusion one percenters.

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Religions from the bronze age that give some comfort and even means of resistance to oppressed people as opposed to the clear manipulative hoaxery embraced by relatively comfortable white racists who helped steal Utah from Mexico? Followers of a racist polygamist con man who claimed to be the descendant of Jesus Christ? Sorry, they get no respect from me.

[-] 1 points by JohnsonJaimes (260) from Sanibel, FL 2 years ago

Joeseph Smith was a known con man, on the run from prosecution prior to his becoming a "Prophet"

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago
  1. As head of the investment company Bain Capital, Mitt Romney laid off thousands of workers.

[CBS News, 01/28/2008] share

  1. Mitt Romney's advice on the foreclosure crisis: "Don't try and stop the foreclosure process."

[Mother Jones, 10/18/2011] share

  1. The former Bain Capital managing director said of Mitt Romney's tenure: "We had a scheme where the rich got richer."

[Los Angeles Times, 12/16/2007] share

  1. Mitt Romney set up shell companies in the Cayman Islands and Bermuda to avoid U.S. taxes.

[Los Angeles Times, 12/19/2007] share

  1. Mitt Romney calls Obama's payroll tax cut that would save middle class/lower income families $1,500 a year "temporary little band aids."

[Yahoo! News, 10/18/2011] share

  1. Mitt Romney's first budget as governor included $240 million in fee increases.

[Meet the Press, 12/16/2007] share

  1. As governor, Mitt Romney made it more expensive to use an ice skating rink, register a boat, take the bar exam, and transport hazardous waste.

[Associated Press, The Boston Globe, 08/28/2007] share

  1. Mitt Romney's plan for a "middle class tax cut" would provide zero benefits to 73.9 percent of the middle class.

[ThinkProgress, 10/14/2011] share

  1. In 2008, Mitt Romney proposed a $233 billion "stimulus package" to boost the economy.

[USA Today, 01/20/2008] share

  1. Under Mitt Romney's leadership, Massachusetts ranked 47th among the 50 states in job creation.

[ThinkProgress, 06/2/2011] share

  1. During Mitt Romney's tenure, Massachusetts' job growth was at 0.9 percent, far behind the national average of over 5 percent.

[ThinkProgress, 06/2/2011] share

  1. A Northeastern University economist found that Massachusetts lagged on virtually every economic indicator while Mitt Romney was in office.

[ThinkProgress, 06/2/2011] share

  1. Mitt Romney has proposed tax cuts for the rich and corporations that would cost $7.8 trillion over 10 years.

[ThinkProgress, 09/7/2011] share

  1. Mitt Romney boasts a record for creating private-sector jobs, but as governor, state employment grew twice as fast as the private sector.

[ThinkProgress, 09/6/2011] share

  1. Mitt Romney called the Occupy Wall Street movement "dangerous."

[ThinkProgress, 10/4/2011] share

  1. Mitt Romney's top economic adviser Greg Mankiw said the "offshoring" of American jobs was a good thing.

[Washington Post, 02/11/2004] share

  1. Mitt Romney called for taxes on the poor, saying low-income Americans having no income tax liability is "a problem" that will "kill the country."

[ThinkProgress, 09/21/2011] share

  1. Mitt Romney called the auto bailout "tragic." After it succeeded his campaign claimed he "had the idea first."

[ThinkProgress, 05/25/2011] share

  1. Back in 2002, a spokesman for Mitt Romney derided an anti-tax pledge as "government by gimmickry." He signed the Americans for Tax Reform pledge in 2011.

[ThinkProgress, 06/29/2011] share

  1. Mitt Romney admits he couldn't reduce Massachusetts' multi-billion dollar budget deficit without new revenue.
[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yeah, he's a political vampire Mormon or not.

[-] 1 points by Danimal98367 (188) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

With a system of checks and balances, no Mormon president could make you do whatever you worry they might try. Sheesh. There is still Congress and the Supreme Court in the way . . . and a general election 4 years later . . .

Has Mormon Senator Harry Reid ruined America? Oh wait, that's a bad example . . . :)

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

If Reid is a devout Mormon and not a nominal Mormon (like JFK and Giuliani and their nominal Catholicism) it's a problem. His being a devoted follower of a living prophet to me is not a good omen.

We unfortunately live in a time of unchallenged presidential overreach. It's been a very long time. We have undeclared wars, torture and rendition, all kinds of survellance of the population at large and all supposed unconstitutional, as was the draft (which is still on the books and could be put into effect by the president) http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-i-dont-endorse-the-us-constitution/

As I said below "Religion is not a birth circumstance, It's beliefs and practices. Mormonism is growing very rapidly and we very well may have a Mormon president soon. If they have secret rituals and beliefs they'd prefer that outsiders not be aware of, well, that is something I am not comfortable with. And I have a right not to be comfortable with that, and to share my view."

[-] 1 points by MJMorrow (419) 2 years ago

Their beliefs may be odd to me, but so it is that my religious views are odd to someone else. I would feel sad and let down, if I were Mormon and people felt the need to put down my faith in G-d or the way I practiced my faith in G-d.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

A Mormon has the right to know that other people have thoughts about his religion. Religion is not a birth circumstance, It's beliefs and practices. Mormonism is growing very rapidly and we very well may have a Mormon president soon. If they have secret rituals and beliefs they'd prefer that outsiders not be aware of, well, that is something I am not comfortable with. And I have a right not to be comfortable with that, and to share my view.

[-] 2 points by MJMorrow (419) 2 years ago

"I am not comfortable with. And I have a right not to be comfortable with that, and to share my view."

I agree, whole heartedly with you, you have every right to not be comfortable with their practices and to express your view on the matter. I only suggested, in my post, that you consider their feelings, in the matter, but you certainly have every right to not consider their feelings, as there is no duty to be empathetic. Still, what is gained in not being empathetic? Why not discuss your concerns with Mormons, directly? You have concerns about their practices and Mormons are most authoritative, on these matters.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I do feel empathy (sorry) for people brainwashed into a potentially dangerous cult, especially those born into one. Maybe the best way to reach such people is to let them know just how much others do not like or agree with their cult.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/steinberg/1674285,CST-NWS-... Mormonism currently has a living prophet who traces his ancestry directly back to Jesus Christ

Wading into Salt Lake, and Mormonism

July 20, 2009

BY NEIL STEINBERG Sun-Times Columnist

<snip>She said nice try, but no cigar. The key aspect of Mormonism, she said, is that unlike other religions, it has a living prophet, still, to this day, Thomas S. Monson, the 16th living prophet, who traces his ancestry directly back to Jesus Christ and is in regular communication with God.

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[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

No doubt Mormons are free to believe what they like. Others are free to know what Mormons (and Jews and anyone else) believe and have opinions about those beliefs.

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[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

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[-] 0 points by Lucky1 (-125) from Wray, CO 1 year ago

WTF does this have to do with anything? Is it necessary to trash someone's religious beliefs? Do you know that Romney believes all of that?

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

"Standing for Something"

It's a great book, written in a surprisingly secular language, by the then Living Prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

New York Times Bestseller, 2000.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." -Alexander Hamilton

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Does he stand for theocracy or democracy?

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

It's not about government.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

We're talking about the government, no?

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

mybe we could have a scientologist as VP. And for the cabinet, the tooth fairy, santa claus, the easter bunny and tinkerbell.

[-] 1 points by JohnsonJaimes (260) from Sanibel, FL 2 years ago

VP Vinnie Barberino.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

????

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[-] 0 points by oogway (1) 2 years ago

I'm a mormon and I can tell that there are too many misunderstandings here. If you have just a little of judgement, you'll see that everything cited above is completely out of context.

For exemple, the 'magic underwear'. What the hell is that crap of magic underwear? We just call them garments, and they are not magical at all, nobody in the LDS Church believes that. I WEAR IT, so I can speak with property about it.Every religion has clothes that have special religious meaning...just look at a catholic priest, how does he dress? For sure that black thing has some special religious meaning...I don't know what is that meaning, but I'm not going to start to call it "magic black overcoat" or whatever. The jews have special clothes like the kippah (the little hat) and other things, the muslims and so on. For the mormons, the undergarment symbolizes our priesthood and the covenants we made with god, like the baptisms. It's a symbol, just a symbol, and is not magical or bulletproof...I can't believe that there are so many people who believes that thing! It's absurd. Guys, go check the official websites...there are thousands of FAQs there...Our clergy is 100% voluntary...our bishops work as businesman, mailmans, in the army, in banks, in big4s (like me) and so on...would it not be weird if I went to work with a religious clothe? That's why we use it bellow our clothes...

It amazes me how many people believes those ridiculous myths like the 'magic underwear'...hahahaha...it's absolutelly childish!!

[-] 2 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 2 years ago

You "can speak with property about it" What the hell does that
mean?

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Cult lingo?

[-] 0 points by oogway (1) 2 years ago

Sorry, english is not my native language and that phrase would make sense in my language. Sorry.

I wanted to say that I really know what I'm talking about because I'm a mormon for a long time and I wear the undergarments, I know exactly what is its purpose and meaning. And again, the whole thing about the 'magic underwear' is completely absurd. Really, when people talk or ask me about this I tell them "dude, do you really believes in this fairy tale?".

Myth, fairy tale.

Oh, one last thing: the same is true for the other things mentioned in the post...

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Yeah, right. The Mormons never practiced polygamy, never restricted black people in their church, never mandated racial segregation where they wield secular power, and keep no secrets from outsiders. Next case...

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

http://1857massacre.com/MMM/lyingforthelord.htm

(Mormon missionaries being instructed in evasion and dishonesty.) Thanks for "the milk". http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110429222408AAFS9cb

mag·ic/ˈmajik/ Adjective: Used in magic or working by magic; having or apparently having supernatural powers: "a magic wand". Noun: The power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

So, by this definition, yes Mormons do believe in magic underwear. Mormons will tell you that they are a reminder of their beliefs, and that is true, to a degree. They are told in their Mormon temples that they represent the clothing given to Adam and Eve by god after they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden to be a protection from evil.

This is what Mormons are told when they are given the underwear in the Mormon temple.

Brother _, under proper authority, the garment placed upon you is now authorized [for and in behalf of _, who is dead], and is to be worn throughout your life. It represents the garment given to Adam when he was found naked in the garden of Eden and is called the garment of the holy priesthood.

Inasmuch as you do not defile it, but are true and faithful to your covenants, it will be a shield and a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work on the earth.

Mormons who tell you that it is not for protection either forgot what they were told (which is understandable since a lot happens at once in there and it is hard to remember it all) or they are not telling the truth. But either way, the truth is that is that yes they do have magic underwear.

http://www.ldsendowment.org http://www.ldsendowment.org/clothing.htm… - Good explanation of the Mormon underwear

[-] 1 points by oogway (1) 2 years ago

Well...this is a typical situation were someone is seeing just what he wants to see. You are reading everything literally, and you are drawing wrong conclusions about it. Of course that is not the undergarments that protects you, of course they are not 'magical' - it's in living the standards and covenants that they represent - a Christ centered life - that protects you...don't misunderstands everything saying that we believe in magic underwear...that's dumb dude, nobody believes that.

You are getting a lot of text and videos from sites without any credibility, and you are believing everything. Don't believe in everything that you find in google man...

I'm a mormon, and I'm a better person because I live by the teachings of the LDS Church. I saw hundreds of people in my mission that converted to the church and have a more happy life also. You, of course, can believe whatever you want or whatever you find in any site in google.

I'm telling you that the apple is red, but if you want to keep saying that it is blue, then ok...what can I do!

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I know that Mormons have a community, rules to live by, etc. that makes many feel good. Ex Mormons, though are online in vast numbers. They have a lot to say: See the above. No, here it is again.

"Inasmuch as you do not defile it, but are true and faithful to your covenants, it will be a shield and a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work on the earth. Mormons who tell you that it is not for protection either forgot what they were told (which is understandable since a lot happens at once in there and it is hard to remember it all) or they are not telling the truth. But either way, the truth is that is that yes they do have magic underwear. http://www.ldsendowment.org http://www.ldsendowment.org/clothing.htm… - Good explanation of the Mormon underwear

IS LDS ENDOWMENT.ORG CREDIBLE?

" THE GARMENT AS PROTECTION

Initiates are told that the garment "will be a shield and a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work here on earth." Today, official Church discourse treats this as a spiritual promise: as a reminder of one's covenants and a token of obedience to God's commandments, the garment serves "as a protection against temptation and evil."

However, the notion that the garment can provide not only spiritual but also physical protection from harm has a long history among the Saints. Just one year after the death of Joseph Smith, members of the Quorum of the Twelve opined that Willard Richards had survived the attack on Carthage Jail because he had been wearing his garment. (Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, and John Taylor had removed their garments "on account of the hot weather.") To this day, stories abound of Saints who have been miraculously saved from harm by the temple garment. Perhaps the most famous example comes from a 1996 feature on Mormons for 60 Minutes, in which hotel magnate Willard Marriott told Mike Wallace of a boat fire that had consumed his pants yet left him unscathed above the knee, where his garment was. As a missionary, I read a typescript account about an elder from that same mission who had been the victim of a drive-by shooting a year before (during the 1990 Gulf War): according to his mother's account, bullets shredded his shirt without piercing his garments, while the only wound he received was from a bullet that hit him below the knee.

D. Michael Quinn observes that stories such as these attribute to the garment the kind of power associated with a magical object such as an amulet. That the stories survive in contemporary Mormonism is an indication of how vividly many Latter-day Saints believe in divine intervention and in the power connected to temple rituals. http://www.ldsendowment.org/clothing.html

Secrecy

http://www.ldsendowment.org/why.html

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Uh, who said the unconscious mind was 86% percent of human mental capacity and that such proportions create absolutes unknown? Did they prove we should fear the unknown?----

Aside from that quandry, we obviously have an unconstitutional congress because they've been inviolation of our first, and last constitutional right for 100 years or so. Article 5.

http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html

Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8

[-] 0 points by newearthorder (295) 2 years ago

Mormons also believe that the original Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, MS. Many Mormons have moved there, run for office, and used tax-payer money to prepare the city for when Jesus comes back. This will be the location of the new golden city of Jerusalem.

People all over the world have weird religious beliefs that seem to make no sense, but the Mormon church really crosses the line into the absurd sometimes.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Some people might call you a bigot for knowing that and not liking the idea very much. You are not a bigot.

[-] 0 points by newearthorder (295) 2 years ago

I hope I didn't sound like a bigot, I am Agnostic. I think what I meant was that everyone would probably think someone else's belief system is silly.

I believe that in a 100 years no will believe in any religion because we all will have lost the will and/or ability to suspend disbelief.

It's like the difference between a 7 year old and a 70 year old watching ET fly across the moon in the basket of a bicycle. We have all been children, but we, the human race are maturing and soon we will be 100% pragmatic.

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Maybe. No, to me you don't sound like a bigot at all, but there is a version of political correctness that demands we all not only respect everyone's right to believe in any religion (or none) but to endorse that religion as something good and benign, even wonderous.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

And they advocated polygamy but switched to get Utah statehood, didn't believe black people were fully human until 1978 when their living prophet had a revelation.

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

OK- So Romney's religion is a joke. HaHa.
Does this form of entertainment really help our cause?
I don't care if someone WORSHIPS underwear -
if they can help us restore democracy, or tax the rich, or create jobs.
I despise Romney for who he is - not what he believes. I don't believe "with" Gandhi or MLK but I would vote for them because of WHO they were.
Insulting a religion is disgusting and dishonorable.

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Mormonism is in my opinion about as funny as polio. Their secretiveness, history of racism, history of rewriting their history along with their more wacky belifs, like the lucky drawers and belief that a good observant Mormon man, when he dies becomes a god of his own planet which he gets to populate with his wife(ves).

[-] -2 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

Romney would have fared better had he hid his true beliefs like Obama did. the closet Muslim

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Obama attended a Christian church for years and years before he ran for president. I have no reason to think he's not a Christian.

[-] -2 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

exactly the way he planned it :)

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I'd dislike Obama whether he were Christian, Jew, Muslim or atheist. Happens though that he's a Christian born in Hawaii, USA.

[-] 0 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit was quoted as saying during an appearance on Nile TV that "the American president told me in confidence that he is a Muslim.

The White House remained silent on the comment

Obama later claimed to be a Muslim in a television interview where the interviewer corrected his "misstatement" and he has referenced the Muslim heritage in America's past several times.

His true faith makes no difference to me either, however the fact that he would lie about it to gain non Muslim supporters troubles me. and I'm sure you'll tell us Barack never lies either correct?

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

He's a big time liar. He might be lying about anything, just like G. Gordon Liddy. http://mediamatters.org/blog/201006160044

Right-wing runs with dubious claim that Obama admitted "I am a Muslim" June 16, 2010 5:11 pm ET by Kate Conway

They just can't drop it.

A year and a half into Obama's presidency, the far-right ranks of right-wing insanity -- apparently undaunted by repeated failure -- are still desperately trying to prove that he's a secret Muslim.

This time, it's G. Gordon Liddy and Pamela Geller, pushing a dubiously-sourced claim that President Obama admitted to Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit that he is a Muslim.

Liddy opened up his radio show on June 14 by reading directly from Geller's blog post on the topic, calling it "breaking news" and stating that it comes under the heading "suspicions confirmed."

Geller -- a prime distorter of anything and everything related to Islam -- wrote on her blog:

Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit said he had a one-on-one meeting with Obama, in which President Obama told him that he was still a Muslim, the son of a Muslim father, the stepson of Muslim stepfather, that his half brothers in Kenya are Muslims, and that he was sympathetic towards the Muslim agenda. [bolding in original] To top it off, Geller went ahead and threw the words "I am a Muslim" in quotation marks and attributed the statement to Obama in the title of her post.

If that sounds pretty unlikely, maybe it's because Geller's sources amount to a chain of hearsay with no solid evidence to back themselves up. The closest we get to proof is a blogger -- who "would rather believe" that Obama was "born in Kenya, not the U.S." until he sees "a real live birth certificate" -- telling us his wife happened to catch the Egyptian Foreign Minister on Nile TV saying that Obama said he was a Muslim.

Geller also links to an article in Israel Today that purports to directly quote Gheit's Nile TV appearance, claiming that he said, "The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim."

Needless to say, no one has managed to dig up video of this appearance yet.

So not only is the statement "I am a Muslim" not a direct quotation, but Geller can't even confirm that the Egyptian Foreign Minister said what people said he said about Obama.

Instead of playing a game of telephone to try to get at the truth about Obama's faith, right-wing media might just go to the source and see what the only person really eligible to comment on the president's personal beliefs has to say.

[-] 1 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

retard. being a muslim isn't bad.

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Not worse than many other things are. Here though the far right is trying to convince the public that Obama is lying about his religion. I don't personally have much confidence in his word, but This "evidence" is pretty thin. Not much to it. And Liddy? Wow. A criminal.

[-] -1 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

I agree, it is thin.

still come on now. i'm not a complete fool.

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I think Obama might be a version of an upbringing common in NYC- the kid who gets both Christmas and Chanukah and whose "personal religion" is a sort of humanistic not very clericalized thing. In this country though, to run for office you more or less need to be a member of some religious congregation. Surely a Christian one fit best. That's my personal guess about Obama's personal religion. Now, ask me if I give a shit.

[-] -1 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

lol, yea. religion I could care less about. but knowing some religions are for the absolute destruction of any other but their own makes me wonder what Osamas real intentions are here.

[-] 1 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

I see you use the name Osama instead of Obama.

True beleivers in a religion beleive that their religion is the true one and therefore, others are lesser, if not plain evil.

[-] 0 points by alouis (1511) from New York, NY 2 years ago

"ooops! Did I type Osama instead of Obama? sorry, Obama is such a down home American name, how could I have got it confused with a foreigners."

So, the son of an immigrant from Africa cannot be an American?

[-] -1 points by journey4word (214) 2 years ago

ooops! Did I type Osama instead of Obama?

sorry, Obama is such a down home American name, how could I have got it confused with a foreigners.