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Forum Post: Meet Koch Industries

Posted 6 years ago on July 26, 2013, 10:51 p.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

“The Kochs are on a whole different level. There’s no one else who has spent this much money. The sheer dimension of it is what sets them apart. They have a pattern of lawbreaking, political manipulation, and obfuscation. I’ve been in Washington since Watergate, and I’ve never seen anything like it. They are the Standard Oil of our times.”

  • Charles Lewis, founder of the Center for Public Integrity

Our cuddley little libe(R)tarian curmudgeons.

Defending the corporate citizen from Democracy, all over the World!!


lots more here.


Keep in mind, they've been fulfilling their agenda since daddy co-founded the John Birch Society.




Read the Rules
[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 years ago

"Koch Brothers Fully Exposed" - An Important Documentary :

Koch Brothers Exposed'' is a hard-hitting investigation of the 1% at its very worst. The two billionaire brothers bankroll a vast network of organizations that work to undermine the interests of the 99% on issues ranging from Social Security, to the environment, to civil rights. This film uncovers The Kochs' corruption and points the way to how Americans can reclaim their democracy from The Corporations.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

And don't forget.

they're not exactly alone.


They're just the poster children for the destructive billionaires club, that's intent on ripping up the last shreds of democracy here and around the world.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 years ago

"The Corporate "Heist" of the United States Government Began With a Memo in 1971" :

From the first link : "The memo became a rallying cry among corporate executives for how to reassert corporate dominance over the American economy & its government, which it had lost during the era of the New Deal. The memo openly stated that the corporations should punish their political enemies and should seek political power through both the law and politics. It encouraged challenges to what it saw as left-wing activities..."

Thanx for the very interesting and somewhat alarming link and in compliment, ever heard of 'The Donors Trust' - http://donorstrust.org/ ? Also please see :

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Don't forget, you can no longer sing, or even watch singing in the Wisconsin State capitol.


Welcome to libe(R)topia.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 6 years ago

'''Heist' - Who Stole The American Dream ?'' - An Extended Trailer for the 99% & OWS :

Wisconsin is a Koch's fantasy playground and Scot Walker is their disgusting lickspittle stooge.

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 5 points by JackHall (413) 6 years ago

In 2013, the highest tax bracket is taxed at 39.6% on income above $450K. In 1986 it was 50% on income above $175K. In 1980 it was 70% on income above $215K. In 1961 it was 90% on income above $400K. In 1944 it was 94% on income above $200K. In 1927 it as 22% on income above $64K.

Koch Brothers and other multi-billionaires qualify for new tax brackets. 99.9% on income above $1 billion. 99.99% on income above $10 billion. The tax bracket will include capital gains.

It may seem extreme. Most Americans can't imagine what an income over $1 billion feels like. It's more than enough money to make 1000 American workers lose their jobs, benefits, housing, and lifestyle. That means it's too much money for one individual or one family.

The problem of having more money than you know what to do with is a real problem.

[-] 1 points by Stuffsnotfree (-18) 6 years ago

Is it interesting at all that there's been inflation since then and that the old rates came with a swiss cheese array of avoidances or are you just another cheap demagogue? Yeah, I think I know already.

[-] 3 points by JackHall (413) 6 years ago

Yeah. It's very interesting.

What is inflation?

Maybe there is a subatomic particle, a cash boson, that causes the prices of objects to increase via quark field effects. Inflation is simply a rise in the average price of goods and services in the macroeconomy.

What causes inflation?

It takes someone, somewhere making a conscious choice to charge more for the good or service they sell. The initial increase does not have to be in something that is being directly measured by the consumer price index. That someone, somewhere who raises their price must also be in a position to make it stick. Adam Smith wrote in 1776 that we cannot trust the undertakers of business to look out for anyone but themselves, and so we must handcuff them. But not with markets, per se, with competition, and the two do not always go hand in hand.

The OPEC oil cartel in the 1970s and 1980s is a classic example of market power. Had there been other viable sources of what they sold, they could not have restricted supply and driven up prices as they did because the competition would not have allowed them to do so. We would have just bought oil (or a close substitute) from someone else. Up to late 1973, they lacked the political will to set strict quotas among the various exporters. But, once the motivation was provided by US involvement in the Yom Kippur War, they made a conscious decision to raise prices by cutting supply. And because they were able to avoid competition, it worked!

No household in my neighborhood, for example, buys barrels of oil; and yet when they become more expensive that sends a ripple throughout all related products. In the end, consumer prices jump as well. Even though households do not buy barrels of oil, OPEC caused terrible inflation. It drove up the prices of anything that used petroleum or petroleum-based products, it raised the price of gas and, therefore, anything that needed to be transported, and it caused inflation in other energy sources as users shifted to those products. Market power–not money growth–caused this inflation. The money supply only rose as a result of the fact that firms and consumers took out larger loans and sold assets for cash. The Federal Reserve acted as it should have done in these circumstances, accommodating this increased demand.

Inflation never affects everyone equally. It shifts buying power from one group to another (even though the winners may still complain because they see themselves as hurt by the overall price increases–what they don’t understand is their role in causing the latter!). In fact, it is the very attempt to capture more income that is at the heart of the inflationary process under these circumstances. Money supply growth did not cause prices to rise, OPEC’s attempt to grab a larger income share did. No amount of controlling the money supply was going to eliminate the ultimate impact of rising oil prices: the redistribution of income towards those countries and the oil industry. Just because the market created a particular price, wage, profit rate, or income does not mean that it is somehow objectively “fair.” These numbers only quantify our existing social values. There are, of course, more purely economic forces at work, too. Gold is more valuable than silver because there is less of it.

When speculative money bids up the price of a commodity future, this creates an incentive for those actually selling the commodity to withhold supply today in favor of the future (when prices will presumably be higher). The rising spot price then convinces the speculators that their bet had been correct, and they increase their position. This may drive futures prices even higher, and so on. Thus, a goods price is driven up by the price of a financial asset. The winners here are 1) those whose portfolios include those assets (of course, they can only realize their gain by selling) and 2) the producers of the commodities in question. Those producers often bear the brunt of the blame for these inflations, but they are not actually the source. As usual with inflation, it leads to a rise in the money supply as agents take out loans and sell government securities. The way to stop this inflation is not via blocking monetary growth, however, but to control the link between the asset market and the commodity price.

What multi-billionaires are not engaged in market speculation? In the post-industrialization age we are now in, since bulk manufacturing has been offshored, asset creation through market speculation is very successful, but it doesn’t create enough jobs in the United States. The fact that multi-billionaires can still make even billions more has definitely given them the capability to trigger inflation through market speculation without regard to the actual current supply and demand, but solely on projected future supply and demand, which isn’t real. Why aren’t multibillionaires taxed accordingly? If they are driving inflation through market speculation then they should be taxed at 99% or higher, not at the capital gains rate of 15%.

The interest on student loans is going to be higher. As if education is a commodity, the market speculators have already determined that inflating the cost of an education is good for them, the heck with the rest of the country, the current and future students who need money to pay for their education in order for the United States to remain competitive in the vastly more technological future that approaches.

What causes inflation?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2011/05/30/what-actually-causes-inflation/ [right click]

July 26, 2013. North Carolina’s colleges and universities are among the finest in the nation, and our students are among the best and brightest. They are working their way through school or taking out loans to pay for college because they know it is an investment that will pay off in the long run — that will help them reach their goals, land a good-paying job and support their families. However, as a result of congressional inaction, interest rates on undergraduate subsidized federal Stafford loans doubled from 3.4 percent to 6.8 on July 1st, effectively sticking 176,000 students in North Carolina with an extra $1,000 a year in student loan costs. The Congress didn’t do anything to stop the interest rates on these loans from doubling.

Interest rates on student loans

http://www.hcpress.com/news/catching-up-with-kay-bipartisan-compromise-keeps-student-loan-interest-rates-low.html [right click]

What has the government done to cause prices to go down? Is there only one direction for prices with this model, up? The attempt to capture more income is at the heart of the inflationary process. The government can control that with tax reform and tax brackets 99% and above. We, the People, would be telling the billionaires they have enough money already, and having more money will be destructive to the future of the country. Obese people should eat less food, not more food. Multi-billionaires should have less money, not more money.


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

It's like I've said every time someone asks how much is too much money to be making.

If you are making enough money to buy any government, anywhere.

You're making WAY too much money.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago

Did you take a count of the number of douche bags that didn't want to deal with the issue on this thread?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

They were busy performing personal attacks.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

It's upsetting

I doesn't addressing the issues

like both parties calling for lower taxes again

and calling it bargaining

Meanwhile media "leaders " keep talking like they matter

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

ok thanks

Money by its nature siphons up to the investors to the collectors

in order for that money to reach the pension people,

it must be taxed from those pools.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

iz numbers that say who's boss

they iz oz the great and powerful

Detroit property public loss

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago

Well, I expect no less.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

then they met your expectations.....................:)


[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Wrong, or legal??

Two very different concepts.

But like with most folks that do us like that........I really do think they deserve a very special kind of torture.

Limit them to the equivalent of 38hrs at minimum wage for the rest of their lives.

Oh.........After every one of their assets are socialized, in one way or another..

Simple, effective, just and humane. At least as humane, as they treat most of us.


[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

It's what a pleonexic fears most.....loss of the spoils of their greed.


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Um....pleonexia, is the medical name for a greed addiction.

It's most commonly applied to people with a gambling addiction.

It was coined by the ancient Greeks.

Not so new, as it is under applied.


[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago


[-] -1 points by JeffSoke (8) from Houston, TX 6 years ago

Keep talking dipschit.



[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago

Shocked! I am shocked. Do tell me more.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Then of course there's ......destroying democracy, one State at a time.

Where have I heard that being applied before?


[-] -2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago

Beacon Hill Institute.......'nother source that can't be trusted.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

I trust Mom!!


It seems they have equal disdain for both their workers and the environment.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

No problemo................

That just barely scratched the surface.

"Any attempt to understand the modern conservative movement will eventually lead to billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch. Using their vast wealth and connections, the Koch brothers are key players in bankrolling right-wing political action groups, think tanks, and individual politicians, using this array of political

power to advance their ideological agenda of limited government and less regula

tion. Chances are they are part of any recent right-wing attack you have seen lately. The Koch brothers, leaders of a vast family oil-and-gas conglomerate, use this political network to pursue their right-wing agenda at nearly every level of government. Whether they are contributing millions in campaign contributions, spending millions on lobbying, or investing millions in right-wing think tank and advocacy groups, the Koch brothers’ influence is pervasive. Charles and David Koch would prefer to keep their influence behind the scenes but recent reporting by the Center for American Progress Action Fund’s Think Progress and a variety of media and advocacy organizations shed light on the

enormous breadth and reach of their network. This report will showcase the play

ers involved in the Koch network, where they operate, and the vast amounts of money involved. The report also exposes the Koch right-wing ideological agenda that often protects their business interests at the expense of everyone else. But cutting to the chase, here is a brief summary of the report’s findings: • The Koch brothers, whose wealth, when combined, is the fourth highest in the nation, run one of the largest private companies in the country. Koch Industries

is involved in industries ranging from oil and gas, refining and chemicals, miner

als, fertilizers, forestry, consumer products, polymers and fibers, and ranching. They have operations in 45 states."

An entire PDF.


[-] 1 points by Tyler2 (7) 6 years ago

I don't think too many conservatives have even heard of the Kochers.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

That's the beauty of their agenda, and they paid the big bucks to develop it.

Most don't remember one them ran for President.

[-] 2 points by Tyler2 (7) 6 years ago

The hatred obvious on this forum has entered the area of psychosis; I can only hope that you're all sticking to your meds.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

Thankfully the hatred you perceive is confined to a narrow few. Three or four people. The majority seem pretty peaceful and nonviolent for the most part.

[+] -4 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago

Be less of a fucking douchebag and you won't find any hatred. Pretty simple shit.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

Guilty conscience, I see. What makes you think I was talking about you? Where have I ever said a cross word to you? In fact I've told you a couple times in PM's I didn't have a problem with you, GF.

Oh, that's right, you got a little bent out of shape when I was giving your boy shooz some shit, in return for the shit he was giving me. That exchange between the two of you was laughable, by the way.

"The posse's got it in for us." Hahahah, what a load. You people's childish bullshit soils this forum, but at least shooz posts some important links. What do you have? "Douchebag" and "cockroach."

[+] -4 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago

What's laughable is your pretense that you had no idea who the Kochs were. That's funny. Your bullshit has been called. Be less of a douchebag and you won't find any hatred.

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

When the hell did I claim I didn't know who the Kochs were? I never said that in any comment on this forum. GF, you're as full of shit as he is. In fact, I made a comment to someone else not that long ago that his ALEC and Koch posts and links were a GOOD thing.

Got any more lies and bullshit you want to spew, GF?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

You forget a lot of what you say, or make excuses for it.

You should try joining in on those ALEC and Koch threads, instead of insulting people and then claiming it was an "observation".

What utter bullshit..

What are you doing here anyway?

Let me ask a few yes or no questions.

Do you support castle laws?

Do you support right to work laws?

Do you support the limited repeal of the voting act?

Do you support affirmative action laws?

No more bullshit.

Just a yes or no.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

In regards to your link about Harry Belafonte visiting Florida to meet with the Dream Defenders, I'm assuming you want my opinion about it.

But first, considering I'm not really sure how delusional you are, I'm not a TikiJ sockpuppet. I don't live in Florida. But let's assume you're not that delusional and realize we are, in fact, two completely different people. And I'll also assume you did mean to send that link to me and not Tiki by mistake (therefore an attempt to bait me, obviously).

So now that we have all that out of the way, you'll be happy to know I have a very strong and very well thought out opinion about that.

But unfortunately, there's a reason that I can't tell you anything about my very strong and well though out opinion about that.

Wanna know what that is????

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

Look, I admit I was going to fuck with you with my last comment, but decided against it. After slapping you down for the last three nights I've grown rather bored with it. So, I'll be straight.

I think what the Dream Defenders are doing in Florida is great. I'm glad to see it and I hope they shut the state down to force the government to do the right thing. This is the kind of shit that needs to start happening nationwide. The masses mobilizing and starting to take back some of their control. March Against Monsanto, the fast food and Walmart workers beginning to demand a better wage, etc. This is exactly what the country needs to be doing. And it's what TPTB need to see.

Now stop sending me links because I won't respond to any more of them. You already know exactly how I feel about "interacting" with you, so consider yourself lucky I gave you a straight, polite, and honest response over the Belafonte piece.

So if I see another black message box with your name in it, I'll have to come back and slap you down some more. Go play somewhere else.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

You answer my questions first, since I asked them first. Then I'll be glad to. You know, the one's in the "Carter called it" thread. You remember, the one's where I asked you where I was "talking falsely."

Then maybe address what I brought up in this comment. You know, the one where I called you out on YOUR lies, then you had it shadow-banned. This comment here:


Man you are mind-numbingly full of shit.

"You already stated that you're a libe(R)tarian." So, why don't you show the forum where I "admitted" to that. You won't because you made it up.

"One of it's members contacted me by PM and told me about it, so yep.....It's real." That's so fucking laughable I almost choked. Another blatant lie. And this line here:

"He was baiting me so his posse could vote down my comments."

. . . has to be the stupidest comment you've made on this thread. So far. If there WAS this so-called "posse" you keep referring to, why would they need me to make a comment to you first before they downvoted you? Hell, wouldn't they just be downvoting you regardless?

So, shooz, when are you gonna stop talking falsely now?

In fact, I defy you to point out one lie I've ever made on this forum. You can't so you'll ignore that too, just like you ignored all my questions.

It's funny you do the same shit you accuse others of doing all the time; refusing to answer direct questions.

I hate liars, shooz, and you got me to play you're childish game for two days now. You got nothing. I'm done. Hope it was as fun for you as it was for me. Making you look like an idiot is child's play. You do most the work.


But hurry up and shadow-ban it again before the forum gets a chance to read it.

[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Look at yourself, making things up.

That's a behavior commonly known as lying.

Assuming things. Using that as an excuse for your attacks, and name calling.

Is another lie.

Calling your name calling an "observation" is another lie.

You've lied about me, based on assumptions.

That's two--------two.......two lies in one.

Now, I've answered some of your questions.

Please, kindly answer mine..

They should have banned this POS post.

there's no reason not to.



[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

"You still haven't accounted for your glaringly mean, nasty, comments about the situation in Detroit."

I told you that night the only reason I said that shit was to piss you off. What part of that did you miss? Being selective again. And hell, shooz, it's not that hard to comprehend. Look, that sentence only has two words that are bigger than one syllable.

And our original comments about so-called insults stemmed from me calling you sad and angry. Hardly what I'd call insults. More like opinions. You seem sad and angry to me. You're pretty thin-skinned for a Detroiter, shooz. I'd think those mean streets would've toughened you up a bit more.

Calling someone "thick" or "stupid?" Yeah, those are insults if they don't fit. Face it, there are a lot of stupid people in this world. It's a sad but true fact. To claim otherwise would be some serious denial. I'm a pretty intelligent guy and I say and do stupid shit all the time. I'm not too proud to admit it. So calling a stupid person "stupid" might be mean, but if the shooz fit . . . .

And if you didn't say a multitude of stupid shit in this exchange of ours you started I would've never stooped to that level. So you get what you deserve.

And thick? Well the fact that you couldn't comprehend the meaning of the fairly simple answers I gave you, well . . . . see the above. You still claim I'm being "evasive" when I really have no answer. Here's another fun fact for you, bud: sometimes there ISN'T a simple yes or no answer to a question. The world's not that . . . simple. If I have no facts to go by, how could I say yes or no, hmmm?? A little more comprehension problem there I see.

And I already told you a while back that I read your posts but don't respond to them because, and listen good so I don't have to repeat myself again, because YOU'RE TOO CONFRONTATIONAL.

Get it?

But we've already seen your opinion about that. To you that's the same as endorsement. Endorsement by exclusion is how you put it. A ridiculous statement, by the way and entirely untrue. People avoid your posts not because they don't agree with them. It's because you're an asshole. Yep, that was an insult. But it's also true. And that's why I won't be weighing in on your posts in the future. But keep posting them, they're full of good info.



[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

You're an asshole, douche bag, lying piece, of glib ass, insulting shit.

A fucked up waffling, noncommittal douche bag.

That's not an insult mind you, that's just an observation.

Your cop out on Detroit is just that. A cop out.

I didn't hear any words of understanding in any post you've made on the subject. You even waffled on the new stadium in another thread.

So you baited me on it and then lied about it and then said you baited me??

Because you wanted to bait me?

and you call me confrontational????

that's fucked up.

You like my links, then comment.

Don't insult me to other posters.

That's douche bag shit.

If I was going to insult you?

I'd call you a pinhead, closet conservative with serious libe(R)tarain leanings and a penchant for conspiracy theory.

I was long ago taught to question everything and everybody.

So it looks like you're the one with the thin skin.

Couldn't stand the weather. so you resort to insult.

If that's a problem for you..

Like I said before...go puck a rubber.

The only reason you've ever commented on one my posts so far, was to bait me. You admitted it and then denied it.

Then admitted and denied it again in the above post.

Then you lied about it.

Fucked up waffling douche bag, first grade shit.

Sorry, but I have really sensitive bullshit alarms.

and you're really good at setting them off.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

Just what I expected. No answers to any of my questions. Just deflection.

And you have yet to show one example of any lie I've ever said on this forum. Calling someone a liar (name-calling, by the way. Which makes you a hypocrite as well) isn't the same as PROVING someone's a liar. And what was I "making up" on this thread? That my comment I copy-pasted from the "Carter" thread was shadow-banned? Nice try, it was already read by someone before it got shadow-banned. That's how I knew in the first place, genius.

But here, I'll give you a couple freebies, even though they'll go in one ear and out the other. If you don't know what that means, it basically means you'll ignore them next time you want to start your shit.

  1. "Do you support castle laws?" Since you confused 'castle laws' with 'stand your ground laws' in a couple other threads, I'll have to ask you which one you mean. They're two different things. So clarify.

  2. "Do you support right to work laws?" I was in Roofers Local #2 for twelve years. I'm pro-union. Try to get that one thru your thick head so I don't have to endure the bullshit accusations you throw at Tiki all the time. But let me help you out by repeating it. I know sometimes it's hard for you.

"I'm pro-union." "I'm pro-union." "I'm pro-union."

In fact, why not bookmark it for future reference?

  1. "Do you support the limited repeal of the voting act?" Haven't read enough about the voting act so I don't have an answer for that one.

  2. "Do you support affirmative action laws?" I used to be completely against affirmative action. Now I have no opinion either way.

Now, I realize I didn't answer with a simple "yes" or "no" like you wanted. But I hope all the words aren't too confusing and you can understand my answers. If not I'll get out my crayons and draw you a simpler picture.

Now, answer mine. Show one single time on this forum I lied. NO, don't just call me a liar, that doesn't count. Show it. I'll be here waiting.

. . . and waiting, . . . . and waiting. But I'll only be here until 2:00 or 3:00, my time, so try and hurry up, will ya?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

You asked me where you lied. I answer where and what about..

Your response was to lie, again.

1.)"Do you support castle laws?" Since you confused 'castle laws' with 'stand your ground laws' in a couple other threads, I'll have to ask you which one you mean. They're two different things. So clarify.


You know exactly what I mean, so you play coy. Besides any yes or no answer would apply to either in equal measure. there were already laws on the books to protect you on your property. Both are ALEC bullshit anyway.

2.) Not a yes or no answer, and it didn't answer the question asked.

3.) Evasive. there are threads here on the subject.

4.) Evasive again.

You've lied about me. Multiple times in multiple threads. Even lying about me to other posters.

You are a manipulative, insulting liar.

Each of those questions were simple and a yes or no answer wasn't all that difficult.

I'm not angry.

I just don't like people calling me names and I'm very inquisitive and I hate evasive bullshit.

Oh yeah.

I hate conse(R)vative ideology in all it's ugly forms too. It upsets me and sets off my bullshit alarms. They're very sensitive to it. I can't help it..

And then there's your attitude about what's happening in Detroit.

You keep evading that too.

Are you waiting for the perfect place to begin denying that too?

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

"Castle doctrine" - YES

"Stand your Ground" - NO

"Support 'Right-to-Work' " - NO

"Support Limited Repeal of Voting Act" - Don't know

"Support Affirmative Action" - Don't care

I knew you were too fucking thick to understand something more complicated that single syllable answers. I suggested as much in my reply and you just confirmed it.

Jeez, man, the more you try, the bigger fool you sound. You consider someone saying "I'm pro-Union" FOUR times in a row "evasive."

No shooz, stupid is definitely not an insult. It's definitely an observation.

And you still haven't provided one example of where I've lied. Just called me one with absolutely no proof. Show one example shooz. Go cut-and-paste it and come on back.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Good, I'll expect to see supportive commentary from you in the future on the questions you actually answered.,even though you haven't offered a word about them yet, and you're still being evasive on the last two.

Interesting to note that you "were" against affirmative action.

And now you've decided that you have no opinion. Strange for so highly an opinionated guy

Now about your lies and insults.

When did calling someone stupid stop being an insult?

When did calling someone fucking thick, stop being an insult?

Your going to have to prove where that happened, or admit once again that you are a liar.

It kinda asks all those questions all over again.

It kinda asks all those questions all over again.

You lied about me.

Over and over.

I don't have to cut and paste a thing.

You lied about baiting.

You lied about insulting me.

There's two that you know well.

You still haven't accounted for your glaringly mean, nasty, comments about the situation in Detroit.

It would seem you owe it your every bit of positive and supportive attention at this point, but somehow, I don't see that happening, because as I recall that was the point of contention that began this current situation between us.

When you first called me names and claimed it was an observation.

That statement in and of itself is a blatant lie.

Now. Go puck a rubber.

[-] -2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

Heheheheh, what a wuss. Can dish it out but can't take it. I've been laughing at your stupid ass the last three nights. I can keep up with you on my worst day.

Now go ahead and have this comment deleted too. Hope you see it first though.

Oh, and I would've been happy to answer LeanMartin over here but there wasn't a reply button. I could've PM'ed him. But I figured I'd do it out here so you could see it.

Care to throw more insults my way, little man? So far they haven't fazed me a bit. In fact I'm enjoying watching you lose it. Too bad it wasn't earlier in the day so the rest of the forum could see the "real shooz."

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

I'm not mad, just making an observation.

You're an, insulting douche bag liar.

It's just the truth.

If you can't take it?

Go hide under the covers.


The right wing troll?

You probably agree with him.

'Cause your a major league asshole.

You are one fucked up lying ass individual.


What didn't your lazy brain understand?

Was it puck?

Was go?

Or was it rubber?

I'm sure you'll quote me out of context. You're posse buddy hchc does it all the time.

It's a trick out of the teabagge(R) disruption video, but I don't give a fuck what your lying, insulting ass does.

I really don't because you're a thin skinned putz.

You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

Now I'm done returning your favor of insults.

Except for this.

Go puck a rubber, jerk.

Here's one of those kinds of links you don't comment on.


Expect more of them.

[-] -2 points by TikiJ (-38) 6 years ago

The grand inquisitor strikes again. Where's your friend Zenny to threaten to cut someone's head off?

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

He'll be around. Not to fear though, he's got GF sticking up for him. And we'll see how long it takes before he shadow-bans my comment right above yours.

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago


[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago


He and his posse really are a bunch right leaning douches!!!

He used to HATE Affirmative Action, but now he suddenly.....has "no opinion"?

what a fuckin' cop out.

[-] -2 points by TikiJ (-38) 6 years ago

Shooz is either a paid poster or simply not too bright.

Gotta be the first. Only because of the constant attacking of anyone who actually worked in Occupy.

The forum is almost completely destroyed at this point. Filled with moronic "my masters are better than your masters" lines.

His pension will be gone soon, and he will wish he had supported us people in the streets in 2011.

Notice his ignoring of this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/fake-opposition/

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 6 years ago

Well, if it's the first, he's pretty good at it. He has the "not too bright" act down pat. He asked if I was for or against 'Right-to-Work' laws and I told him four times in a row "I'm pro-Union." Four times in a row, Tiki. He said my answer was "evasive, unclear and didn't really answer the question." If he's getting paid, he's a real pro.

Yeah, I noticed how they avoided that post like the plague. No surprise there, though. They're dinosaurs, man. They'll be gone soon. People are finally wising up, that's why they're leaving the Dem and Rep parties in droves.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Were do you come up with this shit?

As far as zen? He quit smoking and he gets like that sometimes when confronted by any semblance of ....er...."conservative" ideology.

I can't say as I blame him, though he can get a bit overzealous.

But, he's not me and I said no sucha thing.

In fact considering how many nameplates I know you've used and the ones I don't, I've been pretty patient with you, especially considering your penchant for relying on name calling......

At least this one is expletive free. So thanks for that anyway..........:)

Sorry, but I learned a long time ago to question everything and everyone.

It's a habit, I don't intend to lose.

[-] 0 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 6 years ago

But what's funny is that - setting aside political ideology - he is actually a very conservative guy... he's in denial.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

How so?

Oh, and who's sockpuppet are you?

It's a very important question that needs to be answered.

[-] 0 points by TikiJ (-38) 6 years ago

We'll see if you really agree. So far? You haven't shown a single iota of agreement on that slate. The lesser of two evils bullshit, is just that. It's just idiotic adage. Said to prevent any real thought. I know for sure what the POS GOP has done to me and mine and YOU won't change what I know. Not with any lie you've put forth on the subject so far. You're just complacent about it. Your "duopoly" line is still 100% bullshit."

Take a look at what the two parties have done over the last 150 years and tell me that isnt pure fuckin evil. I'm not talking about the few good things, Im talking about the absolute horrifying things they have been complacent in.

Just because you rescue a dog doesnt mean you can beat it.

The real thought was Occupy. Thats why DEMS and CONS shut the fuckin thing down. In case you missed that, which I wouldnt be suprised if you did.

You realize there were people in the streets attempting to fix this shit in Detroit and your beloved party left them out there to rot, right?

Same across the entire country.

Go ahead, bow down to them. They need it.

[-] -1 points by TikiJ (-38) 6 years ago

"That's what I did say, and I will not apologize for it. These people have directly affected my life and the lives of my family members. So FUCK the GOP first and foremost!!."

I agree. Its just too bad your in love with their ugly stepbrother.

That kind of lesser-of-two-evils thinking is going to cause your family more damage than you can imagine, because you'll be long gone and the pieces will still be in shambles.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

We'll see if you really agree. So far?

You haven't shown a single iota of agreement on that slate.

The lesser of two evils bullshit, is just that.

It's just idiotic adage. Said to prevent any real thought.

I know for sure what the POS GOP has done to me and mine and YOU won't change what I know. Not with any lie you've put forth on the subject so far.

You're just complacent about it.

Your "duopoly" line is still 100% bullshit.

[-] -1 points by TikiJ (-38) 6 years ago

Acts like that over quitting smoking? What incredible strength and courage. Thank god he never partied too much, or we would have a Charles Manson on our hands.

And yet when people question you, like how you can support slave trade when claiming to be pro union, you lose your shit.

Or how you can call protesting bailouts a tea party, you claim everyone ELSE must be a conservative, even though its clear you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

ALEC and the Kochs, seem to be the only thing you know. And your ability to claim others support them makes another thing very very clear.

You're a paid poster. The internet is full of them.

Attack anyone whom seems to know what they are talking about, label them as anti=patriotic.

The same shit Bush did when he was ruining the country.

Did you quit smoking too? Because I would put you on the same strength level as that other weakling. "Cutting off heads" is a bit jumpy... another new low of expectations.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

tit for tat, but you never condemned the NRA's board member. and he said it out load in public, not on a forum.

Here's the racist NRA fuck in his own words.


"And yet when people question you, like how you can support slave trade when claiming to be pro union, you lose your shit. "

Yeah I did, you just weren't listening. It's a very bad habit you exhibit.

I said I don't begrudge people in other countries jobs. UNIONIZED jobs. Not the shit WallyWorld and Romney like to do.

I don't answer such idiotic questions, because It's just BS baiting. Stuff I never said.

I constantly decry the anti-union BS I read here every day.

Stuff that you skip over to attack factsarefun, or DK, or VQ. Indeed participating in entire threads designed for character assassination.

That's such utter bullshit, and YOU start those kinds of threads on your own!!!!.

"Or how you can call protesting bailouts a tea party, you claim everyone ELSE must be a conservative, even though its clear you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. "

More bullshit. Please show me were I said this, or delete this leading piece of shit.

I don't like conse(R)vative ideology in ANY of it's ugly forms..

That's what I did say, and I will not apologize for it.

These people have directly affected my life and the lives of my family members.

So FUCK the GOP first and foremost!!.

It's a concept that completely escapes you while you stick up for voter purges in Florida.

Purges that Scott is kicking back into high gear, and not a word from you.

"ALEC and the Kochs, seem to be the only thing you know. And your ability to claim others support them makes another thing very very clear. "

From the guy that sticks up for his purchases of Koch brothers products??

and doesn't give a fuck about what ALEC does????

funny stuff.......not!

I've posted plenty of links showing the high level of damage both Kochs and ALEC have done.

You're just in denial.

"label them as anti=patriotic. "

WTF?? Show me where I said this??

I quit smoking over a year ago..

The more important question would be....did you quit drinking yet?

this is some kind of drunk ass posting.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

ZD quit smoking? Cool. Being a naturally passionate individual - quitting smoking will only add fuel to the fire. {:-])

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

It's made him a bit jumpy.................:)

It's put the "leaners" on edge.

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

FLAKESnes, Limbaugh, Brietbart, Drudge and so many more right wing assholes have made it so.

Not to mention the constant presence of another asshole around here often referred to as trashy.

All of them are destructive vindictive bitches, some of whom came here for precisely those reasons.

Division and derision.

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 6 years ago

The list of organizations are amazing. Specifically, Cato, Heritage.........guess one can't really trust what comes from those sources.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Libe(R)topians, flaunting a disregaurd for the law and Democracy.

Most have forgotten that they used their foreign subsidiaries to commit treason.

If they ever knew. It's not the kind of thing mentioned by FLAKESnews, or even Limbaugh.


Yeah....Let's fan the flames in the Middle East and blame it on......guess who?

[-] 1 points by summerbummer (-33) 6 years ago

Yeah....Let's fan the flames in the Middle East and blame it on......guess who?

I know, I know. It's Bush's fault!!!!

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Actually, I was blaming that on the Kochs.'

You should try and be less obsessed with Bush.

It makes you look like Wiener..........................LOL

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

In compliment to the Post:

Surrounded by the oil and gas boom in North Dakota's Bakkan shale, Theodore Roosevelt National Park is plagued by drilling just beyond the park's borders. As you approach, it is impossible to escape the signs of fracking -- roads destroyed by truck traffic to fracking wells, retention ponds filled with mystery fluids, and flares from drilling rigs lighting the once dark night sky.

In 1883, Theodore Roosevelt traveled to North Dakota, hoping to hunt buffalo. But instead of wild plains and herds of bison, he encountered overgrazed lands and a nearly extinct bison population. These ravaged lands inspired President Roosevelt to establish the national parks system.

When President Roosevelt encountered destruction like this, he was moved to protect these special places, and now the torch is passed to us. Will you help protect our national parks from the dangers of fracking?

Tell the Department of Interior Secretary Sally Jewell and President Obama we cannot allow fracking to continue to threaten our nation's special places.

The fracking industry has its eye on our national forests and monuments, too. From George Washington National Forest in Virginia to Desolation Canyon in Utah, the natural gas industry wants a free pass to drill as much as they want without taking responsibility for the consequences. Fortunately, we have a chance to stop this. The Bureau of Land Management is accepting comments about their proposed rules, and it is up to us send a strong message that our wild places must be protected.

Send your letter today to Secretary Jewell and President Obama telling them to protect our national parks, forests, and monuments from fracking.

The magnificent views from our national parks, forests or, monuments should not be marred by drilling rigs and air pollution. The streams, rivers, and aquifers that feed these areas should not poisoned by toxic chemicals. And our special places should not be threatened by climate pollution from the fossil fuel industry.

Will you take action today to protect our country's special places?

Thanks for all you do,

Deb Nardone Director, Beyond Natural Gas Campaign Sierra Club

P.S. Please share this email with five of your friends, family, and colleagues. We have just a few weeks to send a strong message that our national parks, forests, and special places must be protected from fracking.

Share this page on FacebookShare this page on TwitterShare this page with other services

Sierra Club | 85 2nd St San Francisco, CA 94105 | membership.services@sierraclub.org Unsubscribe from Sierra Club alerts | Update My Profile | Manage My Email Preferences View as a Webpage | Tell a Friend About This Email

What I added:

What more is there to say? 97% of climate scientists believe in global warming/climate change and the severe consequences we face ( right now - not in time - right now ) and the fact that we people - industry - transportation - FOSSIL FUEL are responsible. Close down fracking for gods sake LNG OIL and Gas are being exported like never before. Fossil Fuel extraction is not about need - it "IS" about greed at this very point in time.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

I hear there's lake front property available at the North Pole these days.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Does not surprise me. Probably flyers for new ocean side property becoming available soon several miles inland from low lying shore areas all over the world.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago


In truth, it's not exactly at the pole any more, but after going to great lengths to explain that meltwater lakes aren't that unusual at and around the arctic, he said this.

"James Overland, a researcher at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, told Climate Central in an email that the melt pond does seem unusually large compared to what is typically observed in a melt season, though. “We have extensive melt ponds every year, but I do not remember such an extensive lake in previous years. The lake is more a product of how the ice was configured earlier in the year,” he said."

In other words, it looks like another record's being broken.


[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

it looks like another record's being broken.

Is anyone who has been following and looking into global warming/climate change surprised? Only the deniers I think. But they only admit that to themselves - silently.