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Forum Post: Logistics: Getting in and holding ground.

Posted 6 years ago on July 30, 2011, 1:28 a.m. EST by theibogaineeffect (2)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I don't know how many of you are from NYC or have been to wall street. but the stock exchange is not just some building on a street. Its part of a "secure" area that is heavily policed and doesn't allow in any car traffic and has check point's on all street entrances.

As far as this working the biggest problem will obviously be the NYPD and being able to get into the secure area, hold it and to not get boxed in. That is to keep a steady flow of incoming/out going traffic.

So whats the plan?



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[-] 2 points by NotEvenSwiss (4) from Bronx, NY 6 years ago

I'm not even kidding, but one thing all these Wall Street people take real seriously is their food. If you go to Seamless Web food delivery there are 284 restaurants available to deliver food to 11 Wall Street at noon on any given day. And those are just the ones that participate in Seamless Web.

What if everyone participating on 9/17 showed up in a baseball cap, like a delivery guy, carrying a pizza in a box and some sodas in a paper bag? It would provide a bit of camoflage (sp?) from ubiquitous surveillance cameras and buy some time with security since there's all kinds of delivery people carrying pizza and what not around noon. We'd also have a communal feast to kick everything off! Everybody loves pizza, right?

Also, there is some talk of wristbands and color coding to coordinate groups (this was done in Tahir for sure). It's less obvious if you group people by HAT color - let everyone bring their own hat (specify color) or have some ready to give out - you can color code without having each item be identical (both NY Mets and, I don't know, like, Vinny's Towing caps are blue, for example but someone not in the know would not necessarily link people wearing them just because they were the same color). It's also easy to pull a hat off your head and chuck it ion the run if you need people to disperse and blend into the crowd. 'Cos everybody loves being safe out there, right?

Wow I never knew I had a revolutionary spirit in me, but I seem to be on a roll tonight.

[-] 1 points by nemenja (8) from Seattle, WA 6 years ago

Well, you're actually pretty spot-on, however that's probably better for a smaller coordinated group as a flanking maneuver-- make them divide in order to deal with people.

I'm pretty nervous actually, there seems to be no planning here and this is gonna get nasty if even a few hundred show up.

[-] 2 points by Jack_Starr (11) from Kerhonkson, NY 6 years ago

Maybe we can organize beforehand into pre-designated groups, who can all approach from different sides or corners, finally converging at the center? I live pretty close to NYC but I haven't been to Wall St. in many years, and I'm sure the security presence is extreme in our post-9/11 security state. Seems to me we have a better chance approaching in smaller groups from all sides, but without going there first I can't know for sure if this idea is truly helpful. What happens at the checkpoints? How thorough are they, and what do they consist of? Do they search everyone or search people at random?

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 6 years ago

I've been this weekend; the area outside was surprisingly light for what I expected, there were, however, a number of cops and I suspect plainsclothes people here and there.

My main criticism is basically - Wall Street is treacherous, a lot of places to control, a lot of holes to barricade, we need to close off not only buildings but also 4 or 5 subway station entrances just to block wall street and sufficient sections of Broad Street and the other surrounding streets up to Broadway to have a) room to operate and b) avoid being kettled.

Wall Street alone is borderline impossible and we need to take pretty much all the way to Bowling Green, IMO.

But no, they don't search everyone, the worst cop blocks in the street seem to be around Brooklyn bridge.

[-] 1 points by lemonsandkiwi (3) from Towson, MD 6 years ago

Based on what agnosticnixie and Jack_Starr are saying, I agree. I think organizing beforehand outside the Wall St area is our best bet since security isn't as tight. The next question then would be how and specifically where do we organize the groups? The obvious answer would be to just find people holding signs and tents, but it would be a lot easier and more efficient to have some type of electronic communication like mobile text alerts, Twitter, or possibly Foursquare. I guess I'm really asking "Will OccupyWallSt and its supporters have a way of messaging demonstrators?"

[-] 1 points by McKinnley (53) 6 years ago

its the new Obersalzberg!!!

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 6 years ago

your best bet in manuevering is to split into packs of 20 and move as quickly as possible. In any police encounter with protests let your mosher alpha males insulate the rest of the group from the police and always move away from the police or in circles around them. Don't let them fence you in and never sit still. Study your arte of war. Realize that the police use binding, blocking, and caging tactics because you let them. Don't get blocked, don't get caged, and don't stop moving. they want battle lines drawn they can suck victims out of. don't give that to them.

[-] 1 points by RebelliousMultitude (1) from Brooklyn, NY 6 years ago

Demonstrations have happened on Wall Street before, and at the Wall & Broad intersection in particular. Since once upon a time this was the site of the US government, it's a nice symbolic location. Background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Hall

Reclaim the Streets had a Saturday street party there on June 18, 1999. Bailout protesters made a couple visits in September and October 2008. In the both cases, NYPD gave into pressure by marchers eager to enter. Video is here http://wn.com/Protesters_on_Wall_Street_NYC_2008

Also, something you might not realize from the above discussion is that there is a subway station with multiple exits inside the "security perimeter."

Now if NYPD decides to prevent access, plans are needed, but this gets us back into the question of our scenario and our goals. Saturday is about having a massive presence and maybe settling in, right? No reason to fight over which block we have space on when what we want most is gathered numbers. On a workday morning, however, NYPD shutting down the subways and the streets means disrupting the Stock Exchange, something they might not be eager to do.

[-] 1 points by ECONOMICRIGHTSMOVEMENT (2) from Detroit, MI 6 years ago

The Community Organization for Abundant Life, has been planning THE PERFECTION MARCH ON WALL STREET sheduled for July 4, 2012 since May 1, 2010, when we started THE ECONOMIC RIGHTS MOVEMENT, at the UNIVERSITY OF Michigan. You guys are jumping the gun on this thing. A few weeks is not nearly enough time to get organized properly. Someone in charge really needs to talk with me, a 40 year vet. at organizing such marches, rallies and protests. Rev. Ashe'



[-] 1 points by nemenja (8) from Seattle, WA 6 years ago

You're absolutely right-- and I know this is gonna burn, badly. It's however the first time I've seen any serious effort put into the idea of actual occupation, and I've got to get behind that as it's not all just candles in windows, and I had enough of that in the early 2000s.

[-] 1 points by Anon1776 (1) 6 years ago

look these people aren't going to just let us hold wall st and they wouldn't let set up camps either. we are only going to have a thousand people and most of them probably aren't planning to stay more than just the day. with this being said i think we should try to get there early, organize, "take the square", and hold it for as long as possible, maybe we could do some street art there to leave our presence even after we leave. Also for media attention, if some one could bring a list of media phone numbers we can get EVERYONE to call them, they would have to come down and see what's goin on if a thousand people called them. What about rubber bullets, tear gas, ect.? we need a way to defend ourselves against there tactics.

[-] 1 points by NotEvenSwiss (4) from Bronx, NY 6 years ago

Oh, BTW, for best media coverage backdrop you want people to assemble on Broad Street, NOT Wall Street - Broad Street has the best view of the flag draped NYSE and statue of GW on the steps of Federal Hall (I know it's on Wall, but the best camera angles are on Broad I think). Wall Street mostly looks like a bunch of lunch places on the ground floor of tall buildings and food carts - the symbolic iconic Wall Street views are better on Broad.

[-] 1 points by NotEvenSwiss (4) from Bronx, NY 6 years ago

The problem with organizing elsewhere is that the powers that be can lock down the whole area around the Stock Exchange very quickly. There are retractable street barriers (including spike topped ones on Wall and Exchange just off Broadway), vans and trucks patrol the area all day and can quickly move to block people in or out of the perimeter, not to mention the streets around are narrow to the point of being claustrophobic and not conducive to quick dispersal of crowds if need be.. Broad Street is the widest street, (duh) but the main entrance and security checkpoints to the NYSE building(s) are located here. The area is covered with security personnel and heavily armed cops (the german shepherds are cool though - they mostly sleep all day unless a pizza delivery guy goes by, then they spring into action!) I guess that it might be possible to begin assembling in the middle of the night - not sure what security is like in the midnight hours, but it might be more lax.

[-] 1 points by nemenja (8) from Seattle, WA 6 years ago

It probably makes the most sense to split into different fronts and try to flank them hopefully dividing whatever is there-- if two groups come from opposite sides while others are already there as pizza guys or whatnot, that forces a 3-way split-- initiative is gonna be key.

[-] 1 points by realdemocracynow (3) from New York, NY 6 years ago

I think that the idea to meet in groups beforehand and then converge (this was the method in Tahrir). I think that it makes sense to designate people who know (or will get to know) the area extremely well to be part of each of these groups and guide people to the occupation area. These guides should also be in constant contact with each other to evaluate what avenues and streets are impassable due to police presence and which are relatively unguarded. These updates could also be relayed to the wider activist community through twitter and facebook to make sure that people are constantly appraised of the situation. I live in NYC and would be willing to be one of the people to get to know the area beforehand and direct people on the day, if anyone else would be willing to take on this responsibility or discuss strategies we could meet at the people's assembly on Aug 2nd.

[-] 1 points by Jack_Starr (11) from Kerhonkson, NY 6 years ago

I'll be at the assembly August 2nd. As of now I don't know the area well enough to be one of the guides, but I'd be happy to GET to know it for this purpose.

[-] 1 points by realdemocracynow (3) from New York, NY 6 years ago

Sounds great Jack, I am in the same situation of getting to know the area. We (and anyone else interested in this specific responsibility) should talk about the plans specifically on Tuesday; I am a tall guy and will be wearing my 'Fight Fascism Eat Nazis' shirt if you want to briefly discuss.

[-] 1 points by theibogaineeffect (2) 6 years ago

I'll be at the meeting. i will be going on a trip for most of august but am more then willing to be a scout on the day of. I'll be the man child in the black t-shirt.

[-] 1 points by Jack_Starr (11) from Kerhonkson, NY 6 years ago

Great, I'll be there with light brown hair, light brown t-shirt.

[-] 1 points by lemonsandkiwi (3) from Towson, MD 6 years ago

I don't have an answer for you, but I think this question is important and should be given priority. Before we can start worrying about feeding people and bringing supplies, we have to make sure we can get on Wall St. I know that the whole idea is to occupy Wall St, but there should also be a back up plan if for one reason or another we can not enter the street. Be prepared.

I knew the street was heavily policed but I am not aware of the extent to which security forces populate the street. It would be valuable not only to think about how we can penetrate the street but what the actual layout looks like. For example, the geography of the street, how and where are police forces located, where ALL entrances and exits are located, etc. The biggest mistake we could make is to proceed with this event without analyzing the area. Many people are excited about this idea, but I think there might be a bit of ignorance and naivety in just assuming that a large number of people can simply occupy Wall St without facing obstacles.

[-] 1 points by Jack_Starr (11) from Kerhonkson, NY 6 years ago

Definitely. Hopefully enough will be there August 2nd to start designating planners and figuring out the best ways to enter, maintain ground, and maintain communication.

[-] 0 points by agnosticnixie (17) from Laval, QC 6 years ago

The street itself is impossibly small for even a paltry 20,000 people.