Forum Post: Let's not associate with Michael Moore - Capitalist that agrees there needs to be changes.
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 28, 2011, 11:34 p.m. EST by JoseyWales
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Please do not associate Michael Moore with this cause. Michael Moore's documentaries are half truths and extremely biased. Moore is just as bad as the bad guys that this rally is trying to stop. His lies sell his message of hate and prey on the uninformed.
Downplay the Tony Bologna scandal. It was a heinous act by a corrupt cop and he should be held accountable. I see too many resistance members use that as a rallying cry to compare the US to Libya, Egypt, and Iran. It was not genocide or lethal force. This was 1 act by a rouge cop. It causes people to lose focus on the real issues.
Reinforce the idea that this is a peaceful rally and that the US is still the best country on earth. We have problems and only want to help everyone enjoy the liberties our soldiers fight for.
Mention that being rich is not a bad thing and that we are not fighting against the rich. Just the system that allows everyone to pay their fair share. If we focus on rich fat cats (people) there is a danger of an escalating class warfare. When David Patterson raised taxes on the rich, they left and took their taxes with them, and Patterson said it was the biggest mistake he made. The rich are people that create the jobs. The market will always win so we don't want to eliminate opportunity we just need more accountability.
I am a capitalist, experienced executive, love the United States, and buy and trade stocks. This is not the typical profile of the average resistance participant but I am for the 9 demands. I love the idea of accountability as long as it does not turn into Salem.
Finally, I think one more demand should be added: margins for hedge funds that trade in oil futures should have their margins increased. This would prevent increased oil prices which act as a tax on our citizens and economy.
Thank you
tl dr version: down with Michael Moore, up with corrupt cops.
One of these guys stretches the truth for our cause, and one person maces us in the face.
Forgive me if I don't embrace this as a slogan.
i've seen two videos where moore appeared to admit he understood the real problem was crony capitalism, not capitalism. yet this is how he titles his movies, and passes off content as if it shows free markets or capitalism, when what it shows is anything but.
i basically write off anyone that doesn't understand the difference or doesn't acknowledge how government is able to create some of these problems.
Class warfare? Class is war.
There is nothing wrong with associating with Michael Moore. This movement will go no where if it decides who is acceptable and who is not.
and further...
I am in full support of what you are doing, however...in one video a woman (with which I assume are good intentions) is screaming at a female officer "Fascist" over and over. No, not even police officers will like being called Fascists....they were not involved selling derivatives on WS.
That female officer was doing nothing, as far as you can see in the video. My point...then the attack on your good people occured. Here's a mistake you don't want to fall into, because you will alieanate people who support you. Do not make this a rally against police offficers. I am sure there are hundreds of officers who are there, not hurting anyone. There is no questions those officers were completely out of line. But I can assure you, you need numbers and many people don't want to join a movement that seemingly becomes an endless narrative against police officers. My very simple advice, don't scream at officers. You are diminishing why you are there. Chant, have a message, but do not target officers to take out your deserved frustrations. If they ask you to move, just move. If they ask you to stop yelling at them, just do it. Do not give the country a reason to be "turned off" to the real message. This is not an excuse for what certain officers did, this it out of real concern that you will be distracted, and the message distorted. This is about Wall Street and the Middle Class. Many are ready to join you, but we do not want to scream at middle class police officers. Many of those officers, you must (and may)understand...may like your message. Be peaceful. That's the idea. No screaming...do not unintentionlly increase confusion, it will give everyone excuse to say you are only there to incite. Which I do not believe. Good Luck, watching and cheering for you here in the Midwest. Be wise and best wishes!
what exactly are your soldiers fighting for and for whom,how many private contractors in the same war zones as your soldiers and who pays them.and what is the true objective, how many rich kids in the war zones, in Afghanistan where are the military camps in relation to the oil pipeline.how much funding has actually being spent on restructuring and medicine. search your soul and answer these questions honestly.
There nothing but anecdotal evidence showing the rich flee high tax states. Look at the tax haven states like Florida, Texas, Nevada that these rich purportedly move to. They aren't exactly bursting at the seams with jobs and they would all be bankrupt without ARRA money.
People have been espousing the "rich create jobs" theory since Reagan. Its not trickling down. Its not going to trickle down.
I agree with an margin increase for hedge funds though. I would also add derivatives should be cleared on an exchange so the prices are correct and the counter parties transparent. And in addition to standard reserve requirements by the Fed and Basel III - banks should be required to fund a pool of capital that will be used for their next bail out. Because there will be one.
JoseyWales, I want to say thank you, directly for posting; your perspective is unique, and people like you, who have been successful, and have the skills to be successful in the marketplace, who are equally crucial to be involved, along with everyone else who is participating. We all have the opportunity to foster involvement based both on interest to participate, as well as skill and merit. While there are many things to consider/include in a movement, both Critical thinking, and Experience, have to be included, and cannot be ignored!
I need time to respond to this. For now I will say that your evaluation of Michael Moore is inaccurate and I believe most people would agree. Your rhetoric is rather vitriolic: "Don't associate MM with this cause"; "half truths and extremely biased"; "his lies sell his message of hate and prey on the uninformed" ... This "hate" you mention is more of a just and focused anger.
You mention that we should not focus on the rich, but the truth is the top 400 individuals own more than-I believe the figure is 150 million of us. Where have you been lately? There already is an atmosphere of escalating class warfare... You also seem to express two different viewpoints: You mention everyone paying their fair share and then go on to say that when taxes were raised on the rich, they left. The rich are not and should not be the primary job creators... I think again most people here would agree with that.
Agreed.
Ultimately, my friend, you need to ask if the system CAN be saved. What once enabled the upward mobility of the deprived peasants and refugees of the world is now a corrupted and twisted shadow of its former glory. It does not lift up the struggling masses, instead it slowly lowers a cold heel upon the forehead, or across the throat, of the 99%. It does not reward our work ethic, our studies, our efforts and attempts to better ourselves and increase our productive capacity; these things are no longer rewarded with gainful, meaningful, satisfying long-term employment that carries a modest pension to bolster the savings we could comfortably make without making sacrifices to our lifestyle. We, rather, are rewarded for attempting to be good capitalists, good Americans, good productive citizens with crushing debt, increased cost of living, joblessness, a failing private sector, a failing public sector, and a social structure where money and connections are more important that merit and skill. Even if, eventually, you could topple all the buttresses built by the wicked and the greedy to support the pleasure dome they built upon the very roof of our industrial economy, are we not doomed to watch our own ancient, modest, humble, pious, and pure temple tumble down as well? We should not rebuild, we must redesign. We must overcome our own past. We must overcome the police. We must overcome Michael Moore, and the hollywood propaganda machine he represents. We must learn, and discover, how to be BETTER than we are now, not as good as we used to be. Solidarity Victory XCIX
Ajo Rey Mostaza!
moore may be a contentious person but he did more for this movement tonight than any other public figure has so far... He deserves a big thank you for all the people of OWS
I agree, be weary! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnE-jKah7b8
Hola, DFW! I take it you'll be occupying Dallas in October? I'll head out there probably on Friday.
HA... I had no Idea... is there something going on in Dallas? Let me know... I haven't seen anything.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000663132317#!/OccupyDallas
I don't know, man. Check out the video in the blog post, "LAST WORD video with Michael Moore is up!" posted by AsteroidBlues. Michael Moore is spot on here. He just took it up a notch. Headline News, baby.
We shouldn't bar anyone who stands for what we are fighting for from associating with us! And this really isn't about us anyway, it is about fixing this damn country!
michael moores videos are not half truths hes almost always spot on. Running around fauning over him is prolly not the best way to stand on our own two feet. Its not one act by a rogue cop, its typical of all the actions taken by all the rogue cops. You can't be a capitalist, we don't have a capitalist system, you'd have to be a corporatist to say we are the best country on earth. We aren't. Not by a long shot.
Big 'ol like.
Turning this protest into the impotent "coffee party" would be a big mistake. Keep the edge, talk about other issues too but do keep the focus on the finance-related demands right now.
We are fighting FOR the middle class, not AGAINST the rich. By the way, you are NOT rich! Get over yourself.