Forum Post: Lets focus on where the real issue is when it comes to "gun violence".
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 1, 2013, 6:25 p.m. EST by Shayneh
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am tired listening to all of you who think you know what the problem is with society when it comes to "gun violence and "ave a "insight" on how to solve it
Well if you haven't realized the problem lies with you, the X, Y and meliminum generation - that's where the problem is in our society.
Whom do you think is doing all the killings, robbries, murderers, rapes, carjacking or anything that involves taking away someone elses liberties - it's the X, Y and melinimum generation.
The statistics have proven that this is the area of society where the problem exists.
Those of you who belong to these generations are in denial and like to blame others for what is going on with todays violence.
Well, I don't see any "old white guy" or for that matter any "old person of any race" stealing, robbing, raping, killing, carjacking, bank robberies, smash and grab, seven 11 robberies, drug killings, random shooting or anything else that involves taking away someone eles rights.
You seem to thik that "gun nuts" are people who don't want to compromise when it comes to more "firearms restrictions".
Well the truth of the matter is you can't walk into a McDonalds without having to worry about someone of the younger generation coming in and knocking you on the side of the head because they want what you have.
The sorry ass X,Y and melinimum generation like to place blame on others because of their own faults. They feel good when they think it's someone else who caused their problem.
All you like to do is party, text, facebook. You can't even come face to face with someone when it comes to dealing with problem and when you do, you think violence is the only means to solve the problem.
Stop placing blame on "law abiding citizens" and start " focusing on getting your own shit together .
And that's why you are a douche bag.
And once again you are what you say of others and this one is especially appropriate in your case
Are you crying? If you are, we can hold off for a minute while you locate your Kleenex?
Crime has always been perpetrated predominately by males between the ages of 18-30. In every generation. It's not specific to Gen X,Yers.
You complain of 'blame' being placed on law abiding citizens. While your whole rant attempts to place blame on the entire swath of two whole generations. Priceless stupidity.
You are perceiving 'blame'. And therefore try to shift it somewhere else. And you perceive yourself/gun owners as being punished. It's not about blame or punishment. It's about facts. It's about the desire to reduce gun violence. Guns are associated with gun violence. Mass murders are associated with high magazine assault style weapons meant for the military. Less guns and stricter gun laws are associated with less gun violence.
Your rant is a perfect example of why someone might refer to you as a 'gun nut'.
You perceive yourself as being punished if your addiction to explosives is restricted. You have an unhealthy physical and/or psychological addiction to explosive weapons. Try to step away from your guns. See if you can do it.
R U 12 ?
An older man walks into a bar wearing a stovepipe hat, a waistcoat and a phony beard. He sits down at a bar and orders a drink. As the bartender sets it down, he asks, "Going to a party?"
"Yeah, a costume party," the man answers, "I'm supposed to come dressed as my love life."
"But you look like Abe Lincoln," protests the bartender.
"That's right. My last four scores were seven years ago."
In 2009, a total of 39,147 persons died of drug-induced causes in the United States (Tables 10, 12, and 13). This category includes deaths from poisoning and medical conditions caused by dependent and nondependent use of legal or illegal drugs, and also includes poisoning from medically prescribed and other drugs. It excludes unintentional injuries, homicides, and other causes indirectly related to drug use, as well as newborn deaths due to the mother’s drug use.
In 2009, a total of 24,518 persons died of alcohol-induced causes in the United States (Tables 10, 12, and 13). This category includes deaths from dependent and nondependent use of alcohol, and also includes accidental poisoning by alcohol. It excludes unintentional injuries, homicides, and other causes indirectly related to alcohol use, as well as deaths due to fetal alcohol syndrome (for a list of alcohol-induced causes.
Accidents (unintentional injuries) underaged kids in 2009 total = 1,181
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf
FBI Data shows more people are killed by being either beaten to death, hit by a blunt object, or knifed or cut with something sharp... than all the Assault Rifle killing or all the rifle Homocides.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8
Over 10,000 people a year die from alcohol related car accidents.
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html
•In 2010, 10,228 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for nearly one-third (31%) of all traffic-related deaths in the United States.1
•Of the 1,210 traffic deaths among children ages 0 to 14 years in 2010, 211 (17%) involved an alcohol-impaired driver.1
•Of the 211 child passengers ages 14 and younger who died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes in 2010, over half (131) were riding in the vehicle with the alcohol-impaired driver.1
Young people have created the most effective, growing progressive movement in 50 years. The vast majority of young people (millennials) are decent, honest, courageous, hard working Americans.
Thank God someone is smart enough, and brave enough to speak up. Certainly the older generation has just submitted and allowed the 99% to be victimized.
Those few young people engaged in crime frequently come from the poorest communities. Those communities have been victimized most by the 1% corp oligarchs. The 1% Oli's have committed more crime and taken more of our money/property and liberties than any group. They don't use a gun, they use a Credit default swap, high interest debt, fraudulent mortgages, outsourcing, low wages.
And those 1% corp oligarchs who have victimized the poorest and created the conditions of hopelessness and crime are ALL middle aged, older, white men.
So dig yourself. You if you wanna stop gun violence.? End the 1% victimization of the 99%.
There you go just like the rest of the younger generation placing blame on someone else because of what's happening.
Tell me how the "older generation" has submitted and allowed the 99% to be victimizes. They didn't allow it to happen to themselves because they had values and work ethic.
They weren't looking for a free ride and trying to figure out how to screw a business. Instead they took on the responsibility to become successful though improving their job skills over their lifetime.
They didn't expect to have masses of wealth as todays youth think should happen within 2 years of college graduation.
The older generation benefited greatly from low prices, higher wages, better worker benefits/rights, better pensions, less outsourcing, no credit card gauging, low mtg rates, lower college costs, more college aid, govt programs like Social security, GI bill, etc..
So the older generations had great govt help, and corps that were more worker friendly, and once that older generation got theirs they allowed all those realities to get turned around. That generation was responsible for creating a better world for their children. Instead they just took, took, and took, allowed 1% corps to screw things up and then when younger people complain justifiably the older people who neglected everything blame the victims.
Pathetic, greedy, incompetent, selfish older generation. They got theirs, created the problems and blame their children.
And who allowed society to change in such a way so that it produces young people of this quality? We all did, we of the older generations. Admittedly, most of us probably didn't understand what was happening, as it happened before our own eyes. But our society, our culture, even our civilization has been hijacked out from under us.
I've seen it quite directly when parents neglect or emotionally abuse their children, then when the kids grow up to be maladaptive the parents have the gall to blame it all on the kids. But its not just parents that are neglecting and abusing children, its society as a whole, including the media, entertainment, the educational system, the government.
Of course we all our victims of it. What has happened is that our country has been colonized, similar to the way in which we think of third world countries as having once been colonized. Today, however, we've been colonized by the international corporate establishment through trickery and deception, rather than through violence.
http://jobcreationplan.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-suicide-issue.html
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147104/democrats-republicans-differ-widely-taxing-rich.aspx
http://www.people-press.org/2011/12/28/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/
For how socialism can easily go wrong, search for "Stephens: The Conscience of a Radical - WSJ.com" to view locked article
And your point is?
Crime is because of unemployment. Unemployment is because the middle class and rich won't agree to more government spending or to this.
It isn't the fault of the young or the poor.
Well as I posted previously - the people in the great depression and the Dust bowl ear didn't go around killing kids in school just because they were unemployed.
That is a poor excuse - you need to do better then that - and it goes back to my previous posts - this generation wants to blame someone else becaue they don't have the initiative to go out and do it on their own.
I agree with you to a point. I don’t have any links, but I suspect street level crime has always be done by younger folks. I don’t think today’s generation is much different than previous generations.
However, to the people who say it’s due to poverty and lack of opportunity. I say it doesn’t matter why someone is robbing you, it only matters that they are robbing you. If a criminal sticks a gun in my face and wants my money, I’m not going to be thinking “Aw, poor guy, probably has no other options”.
So, until you solve all societies problems that cause crime, I’ll just keep my gun.
And the shooters in New-Town and Colorado were not homeless victims of the economy - so I really don't see the connection to what you are trying to say.
Oh really?
http://polyticks.com/polyticks/beararms/liars/usa.htm
Homicides peaked in 1933, during the middle of the Great Depression.
Homicide rates were several times higher centuries ago. http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/long-term-trend-in-homicide-rates.html
When people don't have jobs, they get desperate. This is a fact.
Violence has roots, Shayneh, that are deeply attached to a failed economic system that impoverishes a tremendous percent of the masses, and a failed political system that disenfranchises the majority of people as corporations purchase and control it. Flowing from these two biggies is a failed education system, a failed healthcare system, a failed retirement system, etc. etc. These all make for a very sick society.
Dealing with guns and having an assault weapons ban, at a minimum, is a band aid, but certainly doesn't reach the root of the problem. But, when you're bleeding and you need a stitch or two, you generally start with a band-aid before you get to the hospital. Our society has so much work to do it will take decades, but we have to start with the band-aid.
Well then if that's the case what do you have to say about the people who survived the great depression and the dust storm - those people were flat on their backs and didn't have a damm thing compared to what the youth of todays society who claim that they can't make it.
As far as dealing with guns and semi automatic firearms - deal with getting the younger generation to be more responsible and respect themselves then maybe that problem will go away.
When you don't respect yourself how in the hell can you respect someone else. I'm tired of this bullshit of blame - the blame is within them and they need to stop pointing the finger at government, the Old white people or anybody else.
Get off their asses and do something positive instead of complaining all the time. This country was built on "hard work" and effort - but these people think that's a bygone conclusion and would rather the government do it for them.
What I see as interesting is whenever something is going on that the younge generation are interested in it's easy to get thousands of them together because they look at it as a party -
Well the younger generation need to start getting everyone together to get their shit togethere. Life for them is a joke - they have no long term friends and if they do they don't make any effort to keep them, they look at relationships as something that comes one day and is gone the next.
You can't even have a "civil discussion" on this site without someone saying Fuck off or some other derogatory remark because they disagree with what was posted - it goes on all the time on this site and that is only one example.
Apparently that is the norm for the younger generation - no wonder they can't get a job - they think they need to be catered to for if they aren't they say "fuck off".
I don't see our youth as bleakly as you do. In fact kids today are pretty amazing and they don't have it that easy. There are bad apples in any cohort of people, of course. But, I would ask you how you think it came to be such a sorry state of affairs? Do you think people are just born the way they are? Don't you think that environment has something to do with people who have problems? Shouldn't society try to address these problems at their root in order to make lasting change?
I have to agree, I'm getting sick of hearing you blame the youth for your generation's failed parenting skills. Come on man, take a little personal responsibility.
I guess if your generation would have been good parents, instead of chasing the American Dream, then there would not be so much dysfunction today.
I am kidding of course. But I have to say that your post is just as silly as mine. You hate that people are blaming other people as you go about blaming other people. That is rich.
PS. It's the economy, stupid. The lack of opportunity in a dog eat dog world makes dog meat of us all. Isn't capitalism swell?
Well if you think thats the main cause then its up to the young generation to straighten it out themselves if they have the will or desire to do so.
With regard to the "economy stupid" well tell me how the people back in the great depression got through their economic bad times - did they blame everyone else for their losses - no - they had pride and a work ethic.
Those people worked for next to nothing when the government provided work for them and they took the jobs without complaining about - Well the government didn't give me a free house, or a free college degree.
The mindset of the youth in this coutry always blames someone else for their own shortcomings. They don't even know how to protest or what it takes to walk a picket line for a year at a time.
They think it's a party and when the drugs, food or booze runs out they leave and give excuses. The walmart strike over the holidays was a prime example. Geez, one day of protest is all they did.
I guess it got them a reaise didn't it?
Are you trying to say that there was no violence during the Great Depression? Or The Dust Bowl? You are nuts if you don't think that there was.
Yes there was but not to the degree we are seeing it today - those who were guilty of a crime were guilty ot taking to survive - not killing to survive.
U R funny - and naive.
OH - in case you were wondering.
Naive - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naive a : deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment; especially : credulous. b : not previously subjected to experimentation or a particular experimental situation ...
Check out the homicide chart attached then look at the population figures. Population today is over twice the size of 1920 population. Looking at the chart and comparing population size - we are roughly in the same area as homicides go.
USA Homicide Rates polyticks.com/polyticks/beararms/liars/usa.htm Homicide Rates USA, 1900 - 1998 ... southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, the attempts ...
Population:
Year = size of population
1920 = 106,022,000
1950 = 151,325,000
2010 = 281,422,000
Great Depression years = 1929–1939
Dust Bowl years = 1932-1935
Prohibition years = 1920-1933
Homicide rate per hundred thousand :
4.8 in 2011
6.8 in 1920
8.8 in 1930
6.3 in 1940
6.4 in 1939
So you got me!
I have posted dozens of statistics that prove the problems with guns are GUNS.
You refute them with no solid evidence - you blame youth.
And I'm not sure how I would find out about criminal ages say in 1960 statistics or 1890 statistics.
Most violent crime has ALWAYS been done by young men - especially the Muslim suicide bombers.
There are exceptions
Of course you know that Bonnie & Clyde were in their 60s during their crime spree; and Billy the Kid was 47 when he was shot; and Lee Harvey Oswald was 39; and Hinkley was 48; and Sirhan was 41; John Wilkes Booth was 51;
lets go back to the truth:
10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes. —By Dave Gilson MOTHER JONES
By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection and sharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.
Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1. gun ownership
Sources: Congressional Research Service (PDF), Small Arms Survey
Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people. Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements.
Sources: Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.
Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.
In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7% to 10% increase in homicides.
Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
Chances that a shooting at an Emergency Room involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5
Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are
7 assaults or murders,
11 suicide attempts, and
4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.
Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.
In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.
Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun that women in states with lower gun ownership rates.
Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?
Per capita spending on video games US $44 Japan$55
Civilian firearms per 100 people …….US 88 Japan 0.6
Gun homicides in 2008…..…………. US11,030 Japan11
Sources: PricewaterhouseCoopers, Small Arms Survey (PDF), UN Office on Drugs and Crime
Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population.
About 50% of Americans said they had a gun in their homes in 1973. Today, about 45% say they do.
35% of Americans personally own a gun.
Around 80% of gun owners are men.
On average they own 7.9 guns each.
☺☺74% of male gun owners use Viagra☺☺
Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby & NRA make it easier to get guns illegally.
Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks.
40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check.
20% of licensed California gun dealers agreed to sell handguns to researchers posing as illegal "straw" buyers.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has not had a permanent director for 6 years, due to an NRA-backed requirement & Republican opposition that the Senate approve nominees.
You can post all the stats you want but the bootom line is we have a problem with the "violent youth" in todays society - that can't be denied.
As I stated you don't see "old people" killing, carjacking, robbing, crash and grab. Solve that problem and "firearms ownership" won't be a problem.
Everyone seems to be in denial when it comes to understanding this is the problem - Why? Why is this so hard to understand - is it because the vast majority of people who complain about gun ownership or want more restrictions are part of the "younger generation"?
Well the younger generation need to get their heads screwed on right and understand that it is their generation that is causing the problem but yet they think "all of society" should be restricted because of what they are doing to our society.
Yes I know - to true believers & addicts, facts & numbers & science are not needed.
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Generalize much?
I like being specific especially when it comes to where our problem is when it comes to violence in todays society. Yesiree - the X,Y and melinimum generation have taken the lead on these issues.
The only real issue is that guns hurt their owners more than they protect them. In the vast majority of home gun deaths and accidents the home owners are the ones getting hurt all by themselves (no intruders). Add the fact that guns can't protect citizens against the military in case of a civil war, and you realize there is no real use for them. However, as you know, Americans love their religion and their guns. They are the only developed nation with this fetish. They are also the developed nation with the worst education system.
I am going to comment with regard to all the recent posts dealing with this issue. There is one thing that is prevelent with all the posts on this site when it comes to those of you whom responde.
That is that all of you - everyone of you with the exception of a few always blame someone else instead of wanting to "deal with the problem".
And with an attitude like that - you will never be an accomplished individual nor will you ever understand what it takes to solve problems.
That is the main reason why Occupy isn't going anywhere - you continually blame others because of what you don't like and then you come up with some off the wall solution that you think will bring everyone on board but in the end - it's just "data bites" that are being put out there for people to read.
When those of you who blame come to the understanding that that doesn't work, at some point in your life you will finally make headway.
Until then you will be doing the same thing next year, and the year after, and for years to come - you will be the same o, same ol without ever moving on.
Very good post with an excellent point.