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Forum Post: lets do the math

Posted 6 years ago on March 20, 2012, 9:14 a.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The NRA + Alan Grayson + Rick Scott + Robert Zimmerman

The NRA wants everyone to have guns & the "stand your ground" law

  • Alan Grayson made the Republican health care savings plan clear: "they want you to die"
  • Rick Scott's financial problems could be relieved if there were fewer Floridians
  • Robert Zimmerman "stands his ground" & kills people he does not want.


To solve Rick's financial problem -
Florida should adopt the NRA position and use Florida's law
that if there are no witnesses, and you say you felt threatened,
buy everyone a gun and let the best man win.




Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Jeb Bush turned Florida into one of the most corrupted States in the Union, and Scott is reinforcing and adding to it.

This unarmed boy was shot and killed, by an armed plainclothes, unbadged " neighborhood watch captain", for the crime of being in the area of gated community, armed with Skittles.

The Feds have to investigate, because Florida won't.

That's ugly.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 6 years ago

the feds are investigating-
Horrible as it is to say, this child may died to throw American racism
back on the front page - where it belongs

but the citizens of florida must get the state repeal this law

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8485) from Phoenix, AZ 6 years ago

In Florida apparently you can shoot unarmed people in self defense, this should speed the process.


[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 6 years ago

Is Zimmerman the perp - NO!
the perp is the NRA and thier political goons who passed a law
that creates more gun buyers,
and for all intents and purposes says -
If there are no witnesses, you can kill someone and say "I felt threatened"

Keep in mind that if Zimmerman was smart enough to NOT spew his racist crap,
he would go scott free { florida pun intended }

At the absolute root of this problem is that we let corporations buy our politcians.

What are we going to do about it?

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 6 years ago

I totally understand your point of view, and I am an advocate of non-violence. It is the senseless outcome of the human animal when all rationality has failed. Sadly, humans have repeatedly demonstrated down through all of recorded history that they are not rational.

As much as I hate what has happened to this kid, the removal of guns from the hands of the citizenry is not the answer. If the 2nd Amendment is ever repealed, We The People will come to deeply regret it. We are so largely controlled as it is by Governmental forces bent on removing our rights e.g. Patriot Act, NDAA, HR 347, etc. that any more effort to remove the remaining rights we still possess must be vigourously opposed!

I'm sorry that we live in such brutal times. They have always been brutal. The human animal is still largely more animal than human. But let's not remove any more of our precious rights that millions have died for in our history because of everyday murder in the streets, even in such senseless and tragic cases as what happened to this poor kid in Sanford.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 6 years ago

I am not against guns - very few anti-gun advocates are - we just want all guns registered and all gun owners licenced

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 6 years ago

Understood. But there will always be a black market for anything that people want that they intend to use for nefarious purposes. Gun "control" is impossible. All you do is make honest citizen gun owners trackable by an already over-intrusive government. The underground will still be armed. That is where most street thugs get their guns from now. Some are purchased, but a large number are obtained second-hand via street deals.

If the 2nd Amendment ever were repealed, and an Orwellian State imposed on We The People, I guarentee you that those citizens would look to underground gun-running to supply them with arms in their rightful quest to retake their government from the Orwells of that frightful, yet altogether possible, future nightmare.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 6 years ago

I am NOT in favor of repealing the second amendment -
do YOU know of any organization that advocates that - specifically? ANY?
If "gun control" is impossible, why is the gun death rate in America
FOUR times the rate in Canada - that has lots of guns - AND gun control?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 6 years ago

"why is the gun death rate in America FOUR times the rate in Canada - that has lots of guns - AND gun control?"

Could the answer to this question possibly be that the US population is #3 in the world at 313,218,000 representing 4.47% of world population, while Canada is ranked #35 at 34,744,000 at a mere 0.5% of world population? The US has about 9 times the population of Canada. 

"do YOU know of any organization that advocates that - specifically?ANY?"

While I was not able to locate any organization that specifically advocated abolition of the 2nd Amendment, I did quickly locate several orgs devoted to heavy regulation of firearms (and I'm sure there are many more -- i just didn't feel like spending a lot of time looking for them). Just a few are listed below. 

Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence http://bradycampaign.org/facts/gunviolence 

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence http://www.csgv.org/

New Yorkers Against Gun Violence http://nyagv.org/

MAGV (Mothers Against Gun Violence),  http://www.milwaukeerenaissance.com/MothersAgainstGunViolence/HomePage

Stop Handgun Violence http://www.stophandgunviolence.org/

Congress continues to debate the efficacy and constitutionality of federal regulation of firearms and ammunition. Various federal laws have been enacted since 1934 to promote such regulation. 

The two most significant federal statutes controlling firearms in the civilian population are the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968. The 1934 Act established strict registration requirements and a transfer tax on machine guns and short-barreled long guns. The 1968 Act prohibits mail-order sales and the interstate sales of firearms, prohibits transfers to minors, limits access to "new" assault weapons, and sets forth penalties and licensing requirements for manufacturers, importers, and dealers.

The below is reproduced off the http://www.stophandgunviolence.org/ site

"The Gun Control Act of 1998 (Chapter 180) is considered the most comprehensive gun control legislation in the nation. Chapter 180 requires licensing, registration, gun safety training, and safe storage of all firearms. The law banned assault weapons and "junk guns". Further, Chapter 180 requires gun dealers to perform background checks and register every firearm."

All the above would tend to indicate that there has been and always will be a battle between pro and anti 2nd Amendment groups. The 2nd Amendment is always in danger of being repealed. I am not a member of the NRA, but I'm glad there is at least one org dedicated to preserving the 2nd Amendment because there has been and still is an organized effort to either repeal it entirely or greatly reduce its scope.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 6 years ago

I quote the gun deat RATE - do you understand what a rate is?
Oviously there are pro gun groups & there are anti gun groups.
You mentioned repealing the second amendment
I asked you WHO wants to repeal it
Thank you for proving there are none

based on your standard of "in dager of beig repealed", are there ANY amendments that DO NOT have an equal effort to repeal them?

Do you agree that all guns should be registered? and all gun owners should be licenced?

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 6 years ago

From Dictionary.com

Rate (noun) - a certain quantity or amount of one thing considered in relation to a unit of another thing and used as a standard of measure: at the rate of 60 miles an hour.

I understand what a rate is. The US has a much greater cultural diversity than Canada. There are many social factors to be considered when looking at the two countries. But it is an "apples and oranges" discussion. You cannot look at Canada and say "they have guns" and the US and say "we have guns" and draw a logical conclusion that because they have a certain amount of gun regulation that that leads to a lower "rate" of gun death, because the absolute fact is that if humans want to kill with guns they will do it whether gun regulation exists or not! Don't forget that we also have gun regulation as well. It may not be the same as Canada, but regardless of regulations, if people want to kill using guns there is no amount of registration and licensing that is going to discourage it (if that is the "logic"of your argument).

As for not finding any groups trying to repeal the 2nd Amendment, I conducted, perhaps, a 15 minute search. It was not exhaustive, and I have no intention of spending who-knows-how-much time trying to find examples to make you happy. I have better things to do with my time. That does not mean they do not exist. But the entire point of rights-reducing actions like Patriot Act, NDAA, HR 347, and now the latest National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order is the gradual (and sometimes not gradual) erosion of rights performed in the name of National Security, and that just conclusively answers your question "are there ANY amendments that DO NOT have an equal effort to repeal them?" So, we must be vigilant against ALL efforts at rights reduction. You do not have to repeal the 2nd Amendment to remove its effectiveness so that it is nothing more than a meaningless law on the books. Do you not understand how rights erosion happens?

As for your last two questions - "Do you agree that all guns should be registered? and all gun owners should be licenced?" - I believe I have touched on this above. It really doesn't matter whether or not licensing and regulation exists or not, so my opinion and your opinion for/against is a moot point. Unless you remove all guns from the hands of US citizens, you will not see any change in gun death, AND you will just create a black market to supply those who are intent on having guns illegally anyway. The old adage "if you make gun ownership a crime, only criminals will own guns" applies.

[-] 1 points by Rebdem (71) 6 years ago

i like this

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 6 years ago

I appreciate your support. Unlike right-wing neo-nazi folks you might run into on these discussions (of which I am neither), I am not a "gun nut". If anything, I am a "freedom nut".

Some people just don't get the difference.

[-] 1 points by Rebdem (71) 6 years ago

im all about Freedom. i don't think we should allow peoples rights to be infringed upon because the man says its ok. Bad people will always have guns no matter the control

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8485) from Phoenix, AZ 6 years ago

I do agree with you, but to those that think that getting the money out is enough I urge you to look at Arizona, we passed Clean Elections in 1998, since 2000 I think all state candidates have been public financed, so when you see the stuff I put up here about the republicans in AZ remember they all got public money. Fixing funding is not enough you have to get rid of the republicans or you've done nothing.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8485) from Phoenix, AZ 6 years ago

It may be corporations sometimes I think it better if it were only them but this year, thanks to CU (bit of silverlining) we see people like Sheldon Anderson make no mistake, these are kings by another name, and we should know them.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 6 years ago

So what you are saying is that we should privatize the police force. You know i always use such an example to illustrate why it is retarded to deregulate industry. I say, would you want our society as deregulated, meaning no police, as some politicians want industry? Most people get the implications. But here we are debating the merits of a society with no police force, just a deregulated, weaponized society. Well, i guess the mercenary industry will be poppin'. So which gang, the blood or the crips, do you believe will have their last men standing?

[-] -1 points by dwhit45 (5) 6 years ago

Hey Holder!!! Is that you?????

[-] -2 points by F350 (-259) 6 years ago

Apparently you really are bad at math,but hey,you're really good at Leftist propaganda and bullshit. Obama is looking for a new Propaganda Czar in his Regime. You'd do great.