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Forum Post: Leaving out a critical pleading option in credit card default cases has screwed over several million americans.

Posted 6 years ago on June 11, 2013, 2:54 a.m. EST by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I've finally decoded how the financial elite are screwing over credit card defaulters.




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[-] 3 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

How can the world ever change when no one leaves feedback when solutions and ideas are presented?

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

One of the toughest things to develop in life is a code of empathy. Most younger people have misplaced empathy, usually basing it on how attracted they are towards the empathy target.

Older people tend to have bitter empathy, bitter about situations in which empathy should have been applied, but was not.

The sooner one can get in between these extreme empathy positions and the longer one can stay in that well grounded empathy zone, the better for the planet.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (5843) 6 years ago

Launder Drug Money, Fake AAA, Libor, Cyprus

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

One way to combat potentially illegal and subversive behavior is to not be financially indentured to the law breakers. Debt suspension rights gives people a bailout in a similar manner in which wall street got their bailout.

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

The problem is people lie. Credit card default doesn't happen missing one payment - it happens when a person continues to use a credit card not making any payments at all - or until the credit card company shuts the account down.

And just who's paying for these deadbeats - current up to date credit card holders in the way of "fees".

There are organizations across the company that deal with credit card counseling but I will be willing to bet very few of these folks even think about going.

So lets be realistic about it, these people are "Losers". If that weren't the case then they would have made some attempt to solve this problem by going to "credit card counseling before it went to court - and it's free.

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

What about the people who had a perfect payment history for a decade and a half but suddenly they find themselves in a situation not really of their own making. What break do they get?

Why are you even here? On the one hand, I rail against all those who want their entire debts eliminated because it isn't fair to those who do pay off their debts, then I have to deal with the opposite end, people like you.,

Where are the moderates?

[-] -3 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

Why should anyone get a "break" for something they did to cause them to owe someone money? Life is a bitch isn't it - and what gives you "purpose" into wanting "entire debts eliminated" when the vast majority of people out there who do owe debts are paying them.

How about we let them off the hook too? Lets treat everyone the same - hell just because someone can pay their debt why should they when others who can't are getting a free ride. Seems fair to me.

Shit, lets all go into debt and not pay anything. Wonder how long this country would survive then?

But I guess that's not important to you -

As I stated previously - there are organizations out there called "consumer credit counseling" that work with individuals who are in debt up to their eyeballs and can in most cases come up with a payment plan that credit companies agree to -at a lower price - I might add.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

You are confusing debt forgiveness with involuntary default. All involuntary default does is allow the judge to FREEZE the debt where it is, the debt still has to be paid off, the idea is to freeze the debt so that no more interest rates, penalties or fees accrue.

If you can't support that simple concept. A, you are probably not an occupier, and B, you probably support never ending debt indenturing.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

Now, you're not making sense at all.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

what about the wrongful evictions? people paid their mortgages on time and were still evicted. you do know this right?

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

I totally agree with you. I follow that cause as well and have several blogs with numerous RSS feeds for people that want to keep up. http://www.swarmthebanks.blogspot.com

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

fuck credit card companies at least tony the loan shark will only break your legs. these guys will steal your soul.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

yes, what can one think when viewing a Jimmy Fallon Crapital One commercial. Crapital One is one of the least liked credit card companies and they regularly sue people who simply needed their debt suspended and had every intent on paying.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

fuck debt suspension. we need to eliminate it all. clear all accounts to zero. start all over from scratch with a level playing field. that is the 1st step. ala fight club.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

I would rather not start over, but instead absolutely level the playing field by having rubber stamping judges simply decide whether a credit card default occurred, but instead, decide if it was a strategic credit card default or an involuntary credit card default.

At which point the judge can then freeze the debt where it stands so it does not accrue anymore.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

I think the solution needs to happen as if one were driving a car and needed to change a tire without stopping the car.

Your solution is to go to a car dealership and simply ask for another car.

[-] -2 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

I have always used credit cards, never paid a fee and never had to worry about being taken to court. They are to be used as a "tool" instead of a "necessity".

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

This is the problem, everybody views only their own experience with credit cards rather than the bigger picture. if you grew up in the 80's and 90's, not only were you encouraged to used credit cards to amp up one's credit rating, but many technologies had dropped in price from 50,000 to 100,000 dollars, down to 5,000 to 15,000 dollars.

Nowadays, you can do more with 5,000 dollars than people from the prior two decades could have done with 50,000

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

Well I would think it's time for those who grew up in the 80's and 90's to start being responsible and lean to be responsible for their actions instead of blaming someone else because of their stupidity.

One thing you didn't mention about those in the 80's and 90's who were given credit cards - they were the reason the Bankruptcy laws were changed.

They ran up thousands of dollars in debt while in college and then when it was time to pay up they went bankrupt. They sure did screw the credit card companies - didn't they. Try gong bankrupt today against credit card debt and see what happens.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

Credit card debt tends to be a life time habit based on statistical studies, credit card debt grows decade by decade. However, it was also the purchases made in the 80's and 90's that accelerated more affordable trickle down products.

lol, you're welcome.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

a debt economy is a negative sum game

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

I agree, but, only if the debt is counted on always going up. If the debt fluctuates between a high and low point, it's not as bad.

If consumer credit card debt fluctuated between 250 billion and 400 billion, that would actually be acceptable. Instead, it has risen to around 900 billion to 1 trillion, while a couple hundred billion or more has been converted to secured debt by the courts. Unfortunately, the media is constantly clamoring to report any small drop in consumer debt as, it must be time for it to rise again since it already dropped a tiny amount. Then when consumer debt rises, it is called consumer confidence when it is actual consumer desperation.

Some consumer debt is fine, but there is no fluctuating roadmap, just a never ending growth model that is bogus.

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

Like I said - a "credit card" is a tool - if you don't take care of your tools they will eventually break or fail and you will no longer be able to use them.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

I think 2% monthly minimum payments on credit card debts is not a tool, but more like smoking packs of cigarettes.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

somewhat strange analogy. Credit card debt based on 2% monthly minimum payments is like giving out free drugs.

Credit card debt with 5% monthly minimum payments creates a much more realistic view of a person's debt load.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

the money system seems beyond repair

perhaps the money arbitrators aren't interested in fixing it

[-] -2 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

The money system is not the problem - it's the people who think the "money system" is the problem but it is they, the individual who created their own problem and want to blame others.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

You remind me of those who basically only worry about themselves and probably have not had to caregive for anyone else, ever.

You tend to be part of the problem as well. I've met too many people like you. They live by new rules, they do what they want when they want, unless they are being paid, and they don't owe anybody anything, even their own family, no matter what the situation.

Your ignorance of what went before you and how different things were without the internet is also a big part of the problem.

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

There you go throwing in the "pity" comment about "caregiving".

You know nothing about me to make that comment - you don't know where I come from, or what challenges I encountered during my life, and where it has brought me today. .

You like to blame others because of what you perceive to be causing todays problem when in fact it's you who is your own worst enemy.

You resent successful people - just go ahead and say it. As far as me being part of the problem, I can say for certainty that I am not a "drag" on society - as a matter of fact I have contributed nicely to society in many different ways.

So stop being resentful of people and stop making comments about people of whom you know nothing about.

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

and of course, you didn't refute anything I said. When good people share their lives with people who are devoid of empathy, they lose, its just that simple.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

Look around. Look at all the things that are bought on credit that YOU benefit from. If you truly want to walk the walk, DON'T associate with anyone who has debt, DON'T frequent any place of business that has debt, Don't hire anybody that has not paid off the tools they are going to use to do the work you want them to do.

Otherwise, ACCEPT that people get screwed over by life circumstances they did not cause. And to that end, being able to declare involuntary credit card default becomes a legitimate method for a person to RESPONSIBLY be a human being AND pay down their debts.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

I don't disagree when you say "look at all the things that are bought on credit that "YOU" benefit from. So let me ask - if I benefit from buying something don't I have an obligation to pay for it in return?

What you don't understand is that there is "responsibility" associated with using credit cards.

Today a "lawyer" along with a written agreement is required not only to make a financial transaction but to ensure that the debt can be collected because there is a vast number of "deadbeats" who could care less about the agreement they signed.

I will be willing to bet that the vast majority of people who are brought before a judge for collecting on credit card debt never even bothered to get in touch with a consumer counseling organization.

Because if they did, then the organization would work with them and the creditor to come to a payment agreement. And in a lot of cases the amount owed will be reduced.

If that won't work for them then "bankruptcy" is the only other option - other then walking away from what they owe.

So don't give me this crap about "life circumstances" that people are screwed over because they did not cause it. There are options.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

A debt suspension is not walking away from the debt, nor is pleading involuntary default. It's really no different from the bailout the banks got, the banks are still supposed to pay the money back.

If a lawyer is involved at the end of the transaction, there should have been one at the beginning as well. That's the way a wedding works, there is a justice of the peace at the beginning, and if there is a divorce, there is a justice of the discord as well.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

And that's exactly what "consumer credit counseling" does - it stops all future fees and penalties and allows the consumer to set up a payment plan.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

not the same thing because the debtor is still left with a default on their record. As it presently stands, no debtor can restructure a debt without first being declared in default.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

sorry for not having any game

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

that is the classic logic twist isn't it? you resent people cause of their success, when in fact their success what brought about by criminal and immoral behavior. good shit my friend i forgot how people played the game.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

One person stops to help someone in need, the other drives ahead because stopping will slow down their pursuit of making money.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

the internet does seem to change the game

[-] 2 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

What the internet has done is compress what took the prior generation a decade or two to learn, into nothing more than a quick online review if one is even interested. It has twisted the newer generations ability to feel empathy because they can't comprehend what it is like to not live with the tools they intertwine with on a moment to moment basis.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

the resources to provide for the people already exist

they are not circulating properly

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

Tell that to the millions of people who spend millions of dollars on Chinese made products.

The only way this country will get back on it's feet is if the people of this country show loyalty towards this country - and I don't see that happing anytime soon.

There is a large percentage of people who don't give a shit about this country, want to tear it down because they aren't satisfied with what's going on thinking that by doing this it will solve the problem.

Well, it won't. When you have people who could care less by buying products made in other countries, what can you expect when it comes to having a strong economy.

If the people who are concerned about the direction of this country did 1/4 as much as those people who protested on picket lines for higher wages and forming unions back in the 30's, 40's and 50's, things would start to change.

But there isn't one individual out there who is willing to stand in a picket line day after day for weeks, months or years like the people did in the past. It just isn't going to happen.

They are much happier collecting what they can from the government and are happy doing that.

Occupy Wall Street is a prime example of that - Occupy fizzled out after about three months. Oh, it's great that we can talk on the internet and get a point across but what is more effective - people outside in front of others sending a message or people sitting at a computer trying to get out a message - which has more of a impact?

Apparently it isn't sitting in front of a computer - ask any person who walked a picket line back in the 50's.

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 6 years ago

sounds like you need a dose of the Conglomerate

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

The made in america meme is important, and it relates to this topic as well. Less credit card debt would allow consumers to spend more money locally.

However, the irony of made in america is that it is the states and larger metropolitan cities themselves that have caused much of the shift of labor overseas.

Bloated state pension funds looking for the best return, invested overseas. Local cities make the most money from retail sales and the sales tax that is collected, not small local businesses that actually can deduct labor costs from their sales tax.

We have met the enemy, and they is us. (a Pogo reference). Not all foreign purchases are necessarily bad. If I buy a Chinese shovel and can generate a thousand dollars in food product by using that shovel, that can be see as an acceptable trade off.

However, if the shovel is poorly made and I will need another one in two years, then we are doubly screwed, and that is what is happening. The cheaper quality products need to be replaced much more often, negating any savings while cutting local jobs.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

labor has shifted most due to technology

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

What do you mean? Labor has shifted because pension funds were designed as ponzie schemes and the irony of state pension funds not re-investing in america is rich to say the least.

Now the tide has swung so far towards city bankruptcy that all cities and states can do is hope that homes bounce back in value so they can collect more in property taxes, this is a failed plan.

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

No one is holding a gun to anyones head telling them to buy products "Made in China".

People want cheap - china makes cheap - and people buy it. Don't even go there.

[-] -1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

occupy didn't fizzle it was systematically dismantled by the stazi police state we live in. there is a huge fucking difference.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

Occupy was self motivated, that rarely works.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 6 years ago

you are funny, ever see the end of fight club??? it's coming.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

You've explained one very narrow aspect of credit card defaults

If your electricity suddenly went off and stayed off for quite a while, would you expect some type of debt suspension from some of your debts? Ask Hurricane Sandy Victims how they are being treated.

There are valid reasons why a person can't make the regular payment amount on a card. That doesn't mean they won't eventually pay off the card, it just means that something happened beyond their control that is preventing them from making payments at the present time.

I covered your concern in the article, which I should presume you did not read. It's called voluntary default, and those scenarios would be treated like they were trying to get away with something.

Involuntary default on the other hand is not that easy to fake, it requires a real life emergency.

Lets not forget it was the greed and avarice of the credit card companies that inflated the price of debt suspension insurance by up to 30 times higher than it should have cost that eliminated it as a responsible option for many people.

In essence, your defense of credit cards practices is like defending cigarette smoking with no warning labels or limitations on how it can be promoted all over the airwaves. Yet when I watch an older movie and the actors are smoking, yeah, I get how cool it looks cinematically, but I also find it comically tragic that people trying to solve a problem do it by slowly poisoning themselves.

The bottom line is, we are all the better for the banning of cigarette smoking commercials.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

I smoke

I'm not proud

I hide if I can

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

lol. My dad smoked for 30 plus years. I recall he had started attempting to clear his throat, but could not.

Middle of the night he woke up and could not breathe, had to go outside to get fresh air. He quit then and there. Had one more middle of the night coughing attack, not as bad about a week later, and did not smoke for the next 35 years.

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

I can't help it if people aren't responsible for their own actions. Tell everyone - what is a "valid reason" for not making regular payments? Did that thought enter the mind of the person when they were making the purchase?

Secondly with regard to Hurricane Sandy and lets include Katrina - those folks live in areas where there is a potential for hurricane damage and I would expect that for that reason alone they would have adequate insurance coverage or know that should they get flooded out they lose.

It is their choice, their decision - they want to be next to he ocean = OK - deal with it when Mother Nature turns violent. No different then being on a boat out in the Atlantic when a Hurricane is approaching - and expecting the Coast Guard to come and save them.

Todays society has no concept of what self reliance nor self responsibility is and it's time for that to happen.

This country is screwed if we keep expecting our Government Saviour to bail us out everytime there is a catastrophy.

How about everyone start being responsible for their own actions. When that happens this country will be a better place to live in.

I'm tired of this shit about "well he was in a flood and we need to feel sorry for him". Well I don't live in a flood zone and no one is coming to replace my home should something happen to it - that's why I have insurance.

We live in a "bull shit country" with "bull shit people" always pointing the blame towards others when in fact they are the cause of their own problems.

If you can't afford to pay your own debt regardless of the circumstances then don't go into debt.

And I might add that going into debt is not the problem - the problem is people don't want to "man up" and be responsible for paying their own debt and want to walk away from it knowing full well that they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

killing myself as quickly as possible

thanks for the advice

[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 6 years ago

That's not funny!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago


[-] 1 points by Renneye (3874) 6 years ago

Heheh! Well...it was...kinda. You're in a fine mood tonight, aren't ya?!

[-] -1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 6 years ago

Which is worse - Lets say you were in a 8 x 8 x 8 room - no windows - door closed and just he air that's in the room

Now in that room you had a charcoal grill and a cigarette - which do you think would cause you more harm?

A. Lighting and smoking a cigarette

B - Lighting the charcoal grill full of charcoal?

The reason I made this comparison is because a county in Georgia banned cigarette smoking but allows charcoal to be burned all day without anyone being concerned.

Seems to me burning "charcoal" emits far more caustic fumes then cigarettes do.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

It's an interesting analogy but the idea of a barbecue is that it is to be used outdoors. Plus, at least it's generating food to be used while one recuperates from the charcoal smoke.

Unless we are then equating smoking cigarettes with recovering from sex...

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

People who already have money simply want to go to the front of line, dump the money for investment purposes, and be GUARANTEED a huge dividend, and there in lies the biggest problem of all. Their money keeps getting replicated and increased because their money is prioritized over everyone else.

The result is we get 1% interest rates from the banks, but the billionaires get catered to big time.

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

In that case, you don't accept credit card payments if you are self employed. If you work for someone else, you wouldn't work for someone who accepts credit card payments, otherwise you are just being obtuse.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

my credit union USE dinged my for being over drawn by only allowing me to use credit instead of an atm system that shouldn't be allowed to default via electronics

[-] 1 points by DebtSUSPENSIONRights (181) 6 years ago

I don't think my prior comment was directed towards you but I agree with you.