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Forum Post: Labor Activism: Running Scared Since 1982

Posted 6 years ago on Feb. 22, 2014, 11:04 a.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If you thought firing all those air traffic controllers was meaningless?

( Never mind all those that died, as planes began to mysteriously fall from the sky, as the newbs got on the job training.)

Think again.


Now, take your pay/pension cut and go sit down and shut up.



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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

I haven't flown for 15 years or so can't afford it

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago


How much money do you guess was put directly into the hands of workers to get them to help with the cause?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Completely ignoring the information given, to take a cheap shot at unions.

Now who's practiced that propaganda style before?

Do I have to guess?

One of those "I'm not anti-union" fellows?

Or someone more insidious?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

I was speaking of the big money involved to destroy any chance of the vote passing, chill out.

How much money do you think actual workers received to help move it along. I'm betting there was at least a few people who are being rewarded for their duties as of now.

So moving forward, how does organized labor combat the big money?

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Repeal "right to work". EVERYWHERE!

Block the kind of shit that was posted on billboards all over Chattanooga, by people that had nothing to do with it.

and fire that congresscritter that LIED at the last minute.

Let the workers decide.

and stop all the lies about unions told in this very forum.

How would YOU propose to accomplish that, going forward?

A quick check of existing union threads, shows no comments from you.

[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

The first three are all political processes, so I'll start with the 4th one- let the workers decide.

To do so without outside interference is very tough. The only way to combat it is with better organizing and better ambitions.

Take for instance what we saw in Washington. Union leadership was writing letters on their goals and views, instead of getting off of their asses and getting into the mix. And this shows teh problem with old organizations, regardless of their leanings. They become slow and sluggish, and they lose their edge.

The move to unionize in TN would have needed some younger, excited leadership that isnt worried about toeing any lines if it was going to get past the big money and the propaganda. The big money are masters at this. The only thing they can't compete on is realness. They can't speak from experience because its all corporate big dollar nonsense. Personal stories, etc.

I was posting the other day about this fabulous book I read recently: http://whatthenmustwedo.org/

While coops and unionization of large multinational companies are quite different in some regards, I think they do have a significant overlap.

Would, for example, the UAW union be interested in helping to fund some new auto startups? Perhaps they have, I am not sure.

But somehow the fire has to be restored, the pride and the aggressiveness of people taking their lives- and jobs- into their own hands.

Edit: I will say that when I hear (block the signs from popping up) this I think of this story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Hill

There is no stopping the power of the people when they decide to exercise it.

[-] 1 points by nonbourgeois (30) 6 years ago

I agree wih you. If unions are going to regain the dominance that they once had, they need to become more militant. They will not be able to rely either of the two political parties who have betrayed them. To put simply; They need fewer fat cats like Sam Gompers in leadership roles, and more people with chutzpah like Clara Lemlich.


[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

Thats a pretty cool link, thanks. People like her getting up and speaking their minds is something ya can't wrong with. Sometimes its get out of hand probably, but I think the pros outweigh the cons.

What did you think of my idea of UAW funding or helping to create some auto coopts? I think that would really spur some discussion and might bring them some credibility back to the people they claim to be fighting for.


[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23154) 6 years ago

We need a full on labor movement in this country, not a movement hoping to return to the union levels of 40 years ago. That would never be enough in today's world. And working within the system as it is set up under current political party control simply hasn't worked as is obvious from the low unionization rate we have right now, and won't work going forward.


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

employees need and open board to discuss work

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

Employees need to decide if they want to get serious about running things, to start. As it stands right now, we have become seriously complacent. And all the legislation on the planet is not going to magically change a culture. It can help, but its not a magic pill.

The other methods- the ones that dont require legislation- are the ones that interest me. They are attainable, are achievable and can be implemented very quick.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

This is so full of assumption, I don't know where to start.

"right to work" was pushed by corporations. It still is.

So all those lies blatant on billboards are OK with you?

Can you quote one?

The Congresscritter had NO right to say a fuckin' word about it.

It had nothing to do with him,.

Zip, nada.

He should be fired.

He politicized a work issue.

Perhaps a return to the OP?

People died to slow down union activism.

It could have been one of your family members.

How do you feel about that?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

Right to work is pushed by corporations, you are correct. And the only way to reverse that is to either work around it, or to go through the political process to have it changed.

The billboards should be addressed the same way that traffic light was- the people dont like it? Then tear the fucking things down.

Politicians are usually just shit spewing machines, no surprise there.

So back to the workers, who this ultimately affects.

What are your thoughts going forward in terms of what they themselves can do outside of using congress to achieve the goals?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

So you're not going to say how you felt about that?

Truth is, those workers are scared.

Sometime, some people believe the lies.

You show no desire to stop those lies.

In fact, you seem to encourage them.

Truth matters.

[-] 3 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that after the TN incident, with VW openly endorsing the idea, the people that make up the board at UAW are unfit to lead: http://www.uaw.org/page/executive-board

And I would also ask what these people were doing during this entire thing. How many of them got down there and got down and dirty: http://www.uaw.org/page/uaw-regional-directors

Maybe Im too harsh on myself, but when something doesnt go a specific way Im more inclined to look at what I could have done better and why I didn't, than to start pointing fingers.

Perhaps UAW needs to adopt occupy's views on horizontal in order to make everyone- EVERYONE- a board member and hence get better buy in and aggression.

I'm just tossing things out here, but clearly something right now isn't clicking. And yes there are a lot of obstacles to overcome these days, but those obstacles cannot be used as excuses, they must be overcome. And the chances of politicians- the same two gangs that have sabotaged them from the get go- of riding in on a white horse and saving teh day are about as likely as someone dying here of a terrorist attack.

Better chance of getting struck by lightning.


[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

what? You can't say their current leadership is incapable at best, complicit at worst?

Is this some sacred cow, that no one can challenge the leadership of something they support?

You are confusing disrespecting workers with saying their current leadership figures and structure sucks.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

congressional methods of paper and designated chambers is not necessary in an environment of open data

[-] 0 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

Anyone looking for some passionate leadership should check out Boeheim from tonight's Cuse game :)

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Board members??


What makes you think the UAW has endless streams of money lying around?

You aren't tossing out anything that makes sense.

"Right to work" IS the obstacle..

will you be comment any time soon on the evidence I've provided in the OP?

Or will you continue to push the libe(R)tarian line in a sideways fashion?

Perhaps you did get struck by lightening?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

If an increase in mass strikes is the goal, then there must be new leadership, an injection of youth and more aggression on the part of union leadership.

Currently, the mood is docile at best. Sawant spoke in an intelligent matter and proved all of those who called her a "unicorn chaser" wrong. Outspent and out advertised, and still prevailed.

The same thing can happen for workers.

But relying on old, entrenched and financially very well off (and hence very reluctant to get too outta line) leadership is a great way to fail. And that doesnt apply to just this topic, it applies most all things.

Put some people from Occupy- or wherever- in there who arent afraid to tell a politician or two to go fuck themselves and see what happens.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

If an increase in mass strikes is the goal, then there must be new leadership, an injection of youth and more aggression on the part of union leadership.

and less debt and more faith you won't die in homeless in the future

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

OK, I can see you're been overtaken by libe(R)topian fervor.

So much so, that you can't even see the stats as they are, and so pretend they don't exist........

Let me ask you this.

Why hasn't Wallyworld gone on an actual strike?

Why hasn't McDonalds?

[-] 3 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

Libertarian fervor? This is turning into the same ol nonsense, I'm out.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 6 years ago

oh so you're with the

hypnotic hippopotamus hypothesizes party ?

[-] -3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

When have you ever not practiced nonsense?

I take it your not going to stick around and talk about your denial?

Your HATE for the 99%, should be notoriously, legendary by now.


[-] 3 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

How I would feel about a hypothetical situation isn't really relevant to how unions can better organize, but I would be pretty upset obviously. Now that we have that bit of uber important information cleared up...

They are scared, thats why I said the entire thing needs an injection of youth that is going to get up there and speak to the real issues and not give a shit if someone is being offended.

Don't be afraid, make some noise.

And yes, if a lie is repeated enough, it will become "popular opinion". The entire nation functions on this, hence the media consolidation and propaganda. Another reason on why an injection of youth and some structural changes are needed, to speak truth louder than the propaganda.

Honestly, I'm not sure if traditional union leadership is interested at this point in shaking things up. I have no idea but if the last two incidents are any indication, its business as usual for the most part.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

It's not hypothetical.

Planes fell out of the sky. Innocent people died.

Just to bust unions in a MAJOR way.

The stats you refuse to comment on, show that's exactly what happened.

How do you feel about that?

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

"People died to slow down union activism. It could have been one of your family members. How do you feel about that?"

Yes, it could have been a family member of mine. As far as I know, there weren't any that were related to me. Hypothetically speaking, if there were, I would be very upset.

Are we discussing my feelings here or what happened to unions in general over the years and what is needed to get power back into the hands of the workers?

I'm all for the later, not so much in the mood for the former to play constant defense against another internet poster.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

I don't know. You changed the subject, in your first post, and were asking me about my thoughts.

Why do resent me asking you about yours?

You did change the subject.

Did you even look at the stats?

Yes.....planes fell out of the sky and people died, almost immediately after the controllers were fired.

The firing was union busting tactic.

Unions activism fell immediately thereafter.

So yes.

Your attempt at subject change, does beg an answer from you on the subject.

Now that you're upset, how do you feel about them dying in a union busting tactic?

Admittedly, a tactic much worse than what occurred in Tennessee, but definitely along the same lines.

[-] 1 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

Thoughts on organizing Shooz, not how this makes you "feel"..

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

We've talked about this before, hchc. Do you expect me to pretend we didn't?

Just because you have a new persona. Doesn't mean it's improved in any way at all.

In fact.

It's worse for the wear.

Now about the OP?






[-] 2 points by JGriff99mph (507) 6 years ago

I'm not a libertarian. There isn't a "political party" label you can give me because my views dont line up 100% with any of them, and I wouldnt want them to either, because then I might expect everyone else's to line up with mine, and A) thats not right and B) thats not practical and C) thats NEVER going to happen.

As a matter of fact, most people in the country don't really line up with any of em.

Who would want every single view on every single issue mapped out and solved for you? Not me, no thanks. So I guess people choose those that are closest. Being that we only have two parties to choose from if we are looking for a political resume in terms of swearing our allegiances, its a pretty pathetic scene to say the least.

And sometimes my views change, so I guess you could label me a "flip flopper", I know people like that label in politics... for their enemies at least.



[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

How long have I been trying to you this forum was coopted by libe(R)tarians a long time ago.

See below where he pretends not to be one?

He is. There should be no doubt.

they think they are pure.

they are not.

they are a hateful lot.


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Irritating doesn't do it justice.

All the puppets and bots have destroyed the place.

Their pretend innocence, when they come back after getting banned is the absolute worst.

Like we're supposed to pretend along with them.

There isn't an honest person among them.


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Ignorant, repetitive twits, works as a better euphemism.

They do repeat themselves every time they return with new improved ID.






[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 6 years ago

Not a single comment on the stats.

Lots of stuff bordering on "I'm not anti-union", and Unions used to a good thing.

The libe(R)tarian buzz terms for "I hate unions".

What would Pete Seeger say to them?