Forum Post: Keep Your Eyes on the Prize Folks!
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 24, 2011, 10:03 p.m. EST by LSN45
(535)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
For the sake our our children and future generations of Americans, we need to take back our democracy from the rich and powerful who are using their vast sums of money to "speak" as if they represent millions of Americans. They are twisting our laws and manipulating our policies in their favor at the expense of the average American. The $50 or $100 a normal American may give to a political campaign becomes meaningless when corporations or other special interests are handing our millions to buy political access to the decision making process. Here's my 2 cents on what we need to do:
For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Don't get distracted by the symptoms - we need to address the root cause. Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
Precisely how do you propose to get you ideas passed any GA?
do you mean hard work and less complaining?
No, he means this!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-to-think-about-part-1/
This will require pressure on the political establishment. First we must demonstrate that we have power. That means forcing the admin to change course.
The post I left below discusses one type of action and the feed back loop it will produce.
I'm sure it is not the only kind of action that will produce results.
.
-- I have been saying Attack the Lies. . . . . Nov. 22, 2011
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-have-been-saying-attack-the-lies/
. z
again and again, people think that they have the sense and lucidity to tell us all what to do... taking up space with what amounts to ignorant and short sighted two dimensional attempts to herd people into their own pet issue. Again and again, while this is certainly important, its not the only thing that is, and its not up to you to flood the forum along with a zillion other people with your brilliant brain stormed up but two dimensional and dumble downed ideas. Stop thinking you have the perspective by which to play guru, and start listening to the rest of everyone else.
campaign finance reform is ONE of fifty issues, and its not meaningfully more important that glass steagle, or forming a new third party, or an article 5 convention. You THINKING it is so important just proves you haven't given the time to look into the OTHER issues,.... so your just BSing and pushing what you THINK is important instead of being present with everyone elses work.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Issues_%2B_Political_Platform_Items
we need EVERY issue covered, not a simpleton dumble down focus on only one issue.
gawdoftruth, While I agree with you that there are many other issues of great importance I respectfully disagree with you that campaign finance reform is "not meaningfully more important than glass-steagle, or forming a new third party...." As you may have seen from others who have posted, Campaign Finance Reform is what some consider to be the "fulcrum issue." Until the American people curtails the ability of the corporations and other special interests to use their money to have their point of view disproportionally influence our politician, the chance that any meaningful reforms will happen is very remote and any progress that is made will quickly be undone by loop holes or counter-legislation. It would be like replacing the roof on the chicken coop but still leaving the fox in charge of guarding it. The difference between campaign finance reform (which has a number of synonyms) and the other issues is that it deals with the ROOT CAUSE, not just the symptoms.
You are free to assume that I presume too much, or that I'm "ignorant," shortsighted," or a "simpleton", or that I don't have "the perspective." Viewers of our posts can make their own determination of that. Furthermore, you would be mistaken to assume I have not looked at other issues. From reading your post it almost sounds like you consider this to be some sort of personal contest - I can assure you I'm not looking for any personal glory. If I was I would not spend my time posting on an anonymous website. There is only one reason I'm pushing for campaign finance reform - because I (and many others) believe that it is the "fulcrum issue" that can shift political influence back where it should be - in the hands of the American people. Most American already want to see less corporate influence in their politics - something the 99% can truly get behind.
If you don't agree with me that's fine. If you have better ideas, by all means please share them with us so we can help these protests bring some positive changes to our country.
I looked at the link you provided - of the 30 or so items you mention (copy and pasted below) about 6 are directly related to campaign finance reform and the rest are issues that the American people will be able to reform once the politicians are actually representing them instead of the rich and powerful.
Lastly - there are many, including myself, that would disagree that "EVERY" issue needs to be covered. The protests need simple and concise messages for the American people (some of us learned this in marketing 101). If this is not achieved the important items are quickly lost in all the noise.
Regards
Occupy Issues, Corporate Oligarchy, Direct Democracy, Article 5 Convention, THE 99% POLITICAL PARTY, End The FED, Reinstate Glass -Steagall Act, Corporate Personhood, Ephemeral/ Bubble Economics, Get Money Out of Politics, Credit Unions, Money as Debt, Lobbying, Corporate Oligarchy, Ron Lawl Position Papers and Issues, Military Abuse, Campaign Finance Reform, dumble down, Global Warming, Non Violence Training For Police, Homelessness, End Domestic Nuclear Power, Congressional Insider Trading, Police Abuse, Corruption, Misconduct, and Treason, Freecycle, Toshiba, USA sold Tear Gas to Egypt
what SOME consider to be the fulcrum issue. Game theory says its just one of many issues and that fixing only that issue would still leave us a mess. I don't consider this to be a personal contest. I do consider this to be a sleight and a short sighted move on the part of a small minority to tell the rest of us what to do and what to focus on, rather than moving the issue forward, its asking for us all to focus on what YOU think is important. I'm all for getting to this issue, but not at the expense of all the other issues, and i have noticed this pattern, lately, of people coming in here and telling everyone what to do and which issue is the most important to focus on and i think any sane person ought to stand up and go boots down about this, because nobody has any right to call a single issue THE focus issue, and nobody has any right to take energy out from working other issues in order to focus on the issue thats most important to THEM.
I do think its a fulcrum issue .. one of ten or twenty or so.
Systems and Game theory and marketing 101 tells us that the only way to build an actual majority is to cover all the issues, because each new evolutionarily covered issue brings in another percent of the population.
So yes, EVERY issue needs to be covered, and asking for a focus on only one issue is counter productive, controlling, short sighted, and super simplifies the problems we face; ensuring over all failure.
Its funny you bring up marketing 101. While simple and concise messages will certainly interest 30 percent of the population, only depth evolutionary answers to the problems worked out from science and truth and diplomatically working on every side is going to forge a real coalition of 70 or 90 percent of the population. The ONLY way to bring in each percent of the population is to have an evolutionary treatment on the issue that that demographic holds close to their heart. Just like YOU want to put THIS ONE issue on the FRONT BURNER, so does everybody else have their one issue they want to see on the front burner. The problem is, if any issue actually gets the front burner to the exclusion of other issues, MORE PEOPLE ARE ALIENATED THAN ARE DRAWN IN.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Ego_Centered_Front_Burnerism-_Whats_wrong_with_putting_your_pet_issue_to_the_front_of_the_priority_list.
I hope I have not offended you in any way - I assume we both want to see positive reforms happen. I have to admit my initial reaction to your post was quite negative - it contained a number of direct insults. My intent is not to take energy out of other issues, I'm only suggesting how I believe a political environment can be created where the best chance for real reform to happen. I believe getting the money out of the system through real campaign finance reform is the first step. If you feel that there are several other "fulcrum" or pivotal issues of similar importance, by all means please share them (I would be curios to know, if you had to pick only one, which one it would be and why). I also have to admit I know very little about game theory. If you are an expert in this area the protests could really benefit from someone mapping out a strategy.
I wish you the best!
campaign finance reform is crucial. So is the creation of meaningful direct democracy. You speak to a chain of causes and effects and the problem of all problems being bottle necked inside of this one issue. I would say that this is even more true actually of the need to form a new third political party, and to delineate a complete platform for that party. Campaign finance reform does not solve the problem of having a duopoly, it does not solve the problem of all the other assorted issues, Its certainly a core issue amongst others, but if i had one single request rather than demand to make of the rest of the 99 percent, it would be that we all of us get back to the wiki and have an information centered and science centered paradigm shift, without which campaign finance reform would still only get us two parties of oligarchs who are morbidly crooked.
In terms of priorities due to cause and effect relationships, I think I could even make the case that its probably true that campaign finance reform will prove to be impossible to obtain until the information end of the paradigm shift is addressed. How are we going to leverage protesting in the streets for campaign finance reform? How do you beg devils and demons to be kind and do whats right? They have all the power. They have a giant rigged con scam of left versus right which 90 percent of the population buys into.
So what do we do? Elect another batch of dems or republicans on their lick and promise that these oligarchs will be different and spend 4 more years reality testing why thats just more of the same? HOW are we going to make campaign finance reform happen? The core utility every one seems to miss here is that we have to throw all the bums out. Campaign FINANCE reform is one end of a larger batch of issues which include campaign LEGAL reform, campaign MEDIA reform, Electoral reform (your vote is still being bought and sold on the open black market...) And ETC.
What about ranked voting? Actual Voting reform? What about direct representation? Lobbies?
All of these issues hinge upon us realizing that the people we have in office now are simply evil people, we can't imagine that we can ask them to do good and that they simply will. We can only remove them from power, and so that means that forming a 99 percent party and working out its political platform must meaningfully precede and prioritize ahead of campaign finance.