Forum Post: Just the facts
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 15, 2011, 11:56 p.m. EST by justthefacts
(-14)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
90% of the millionaires in this country are self made. If you want to join the 1%, do it yourself, dont expect someone to do it for you... I moved here from Italy last year with nothing more than a suit case - no money, no college. I started a landscaping business and made $12,349 dollars this year working 6am to 8pm, more money than I ever made in Italy. I am very excited to see how much more I can make next year...What OWS does not realize is that on a global level all Americans are part of the 1%.
We are all WORKING for the one percent. That is the whole world today. From workers in Italy to China to the US. So if you're from Italy and you weren't making that much money over there and you think that what you made here in the US is good, well then good for you. Just keep in mind that it is no different here than in Italy. It's all about the one percent exploiting the cheapest labor on all levels of work everywhere and anywhere they get the chance. OWS wants this country and the rest of the world to move towards paying ALL workers living wages, providing affordable health care, affordable housing and so on. I wouldn't mind cutting grass for a living if it paid me a living wage. And that is the way it should be so that all working people on God's beautiful green Earth can lead happy, fulfilling lives with their families and loved ones. But to the one per-centers Money is God and there is no way in hell that the one per centers will ever agree to paying everyone living wages. And I also think your post is a fake.
I can do a story like that too. I work at a burger joint. I don't smoke, drink alcohol or do drugs. I live within my means and live in a cheap apartment without cable or internet. I have a cheap pay as you go cell phone. I take the bus to work, but soon I should be able to save enough money to buy myself a cheap used car. I watch what I eat and take care of myself so that I won't get sick and need to go to a doctor because I can't afford it. But it's okay with me that the Burger Lords are making a killing selling greasy burgers to the obese. As long as I get my minimum wage paycheck every two weeks I'm okay. Beats being a homeless person.
I grew up working poor in the Bronx and am currently at MIT thanks to a crazily determined mother and a strong, supportive working class community. Simply speaking from my experience and from what I've seen, poor choices may be a part of why people are poor, but they're hardly enough of the picture to just be able to point the finger at an entire population and brand them as lazy, stupid, and useless.
I'll be the first to admit that what I did was hardly in a vacuum. Not everybody has a mother who is a licensed teacher who was willing to quit her job to live as a poor housewife so that she could homeschool her children to keep them out of a failing school system. Not everybody has a father who could find and hold onto a union job with good benefits up until his son's sophomore year of high school, weather an eleven-month strike and a plant closure, and manage to get another union job within a few months of being laid off. Not everybody has a landlord willing to hold off a rent increase for a year longer than he had to to cut us a break. Not everyone knows an incredibly kind nun who just dropped off $500 at our doorstep one month when we couldn't fully make rent on time.
It is theoretically possible to bootstrap oneself out of poverty, but damn near nobody who truly got anywhere satisfactory in life came from absolutely nothing. There is always the one that does, and that person is so many different kinds of amazing it's not funny, but usually there are support systems there that you didn't see that your average bootstrapper was able to take advantage of. There are also whole communities in which the resources don't exist for those kinds of support systems to develop organically and therein lies the trap. When you have someone who comes from a broken home, spends his days in a school that doesn't teach him and where large chunks of the student body punish success, in a community where few people care and the ones that do truly have no support to offer, you've essentially spent his whole life teaching him that success is out of his reach and he'd be a fool to reach for it.
The whole point of discarding this ugly attitude about the economically less fortunate is because only then are you going to watch the kind of change that you're hoping for. Give the poor real economic support for things like going to college and/or vocational training so that they can ditch their minimum-wage job for something they can actually live on. Send their kids to strong, high-performing schools where success is expected and rewarded. Truly offer them opportunity and you'd be amazed at how fast they would take it. Now, if you give someone every opportunity in the book and they still blow it, then feel free to dump them on the roadside; I won't stop you. But until that's been done your attitude is simply part of the problem.
I moved here from a broken Italy last year, with nothing more than a suitcase. No college, no money. But from the outside looking in, America was the place to be. Every country in the world has its problems, but when compared to the rest of the world America is leaps and bounds a head of everyone. If you dont believe me, spend sometime outside the US, I bet you will beg to come back. Its easy to spot problems, but the difference between America and the rest of the world, is everyone here on a global level - is in the 1%.
That is true, and that is an amazing achievement that I in no way want to detract from. Your point about us being far ahead of the rest of the world is true, but I believe that's a lot like saying that everyone else is getting twenties and thirties on an exam, and therefore it's completely acceptable to coast and get a sixty or a seventy when perfect marks are well within your reach (and for that matter understanding only sixty percent of the material will screw you next semester). Part of what I love about this country is its thirst for self-improvement, that we don't judge ourselves by how badly everyone else is doing but by where we have the capability to be, and I feel that we have the capability to do much better on this front than we are now.
Even though we rarely agree, your posts still gain respect from me.
Thanks a lot. Just out of curiosity, where do you stand on this? I believe we resolved whole chunks of it on an earlier thread about welfare, but would you be willing to agree with me that creating a supportive environment for the poor in which those who want to get ahead have fewer hurdles than otherwise and those that don't get dropped?
I believe it aligns well with our welfare conclusion.
That's great. I know that sometimes this movement appears raucous and stupid, and depending on who you talk to you're going to hear all kinds of things that may or may not be a good idea, but I don't believe that those attitudes accurately reflect the movement. I've described why I'm here and why I think OWS matters (even when I feel like cuffing somebody upside the head out of frustration over a given policy), and I'm glad that even if we don't specifically agree on the validity of the movement as a whole we can at least have a reasonably informed and civil debate on the issues.
Thank you. I must go now, the library is closing. I look forward to reading more replies.
No problem. Have a good night!
no offense, but that was a response to ARod1993 based off previous conversations. I have not become familiar enough with your post to extend that to you, but in no way am i implying the opposite.
What they dont tell you about that 90% is how much support they got from outside. For example if you got a rich daddy that pays for you school and supports you all through school so all you have to do is focus on school. Then he buys you a car pays your rent .yadda yadda. You have a lot better chances of getting rich than somebody that has to work through school and skip homework to get rent money. I could call myself a self made 1% if somebody gave me a hundred grand to start a business and replenished me anytime things got tight. There is also a survey that found most people die in the class they were born in.
none of this post details what they did or the impact on society they had on their way to riches. nobody here is dogging on wealth. what is being protested are the practices that damage society by some of those people. a handful of people protesting in a park pales in comparison to the missing billions from MF global, the mortgage and foreclosure fraud, investment firms with deep rooted and widespread fraud. those things are hurting others who are also working their ass off to make it big or even millions who just wanted a decent retirement. crying out that we are trying to beat up on the rich is such a tired way of deflecting these issues every tie they are brought up. i don't think anyone is buying it any longer homie.
You identified A problem, so now what do you pose as a solution?
:) I'm suprised it's only 90%. I agree. Don't beg for things, do it yourself or else you won't get anything.
Anyways, if you have time visit this site, it's about two companies that actually do nasty shit. No political agendy.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-the-evildoers/
The Revolution starts here!
That is the last thing we need. More people creating self worth. Have you learned nothing from this "movement"? We need to dissuade people from being productive so the ones who will never try don't get jealous.
you are crazy. thanks for revealing yourself
crazy like a fox...lol
Yeah crazy like a Fox. Fox news. Half the people on this site know that Fox is the master of truth. Go Bill and Sean!
Yeah BATER, we are soul mates, maybe we could meat up some time!
You just can't get enough of posing as me. It's funny. I take it has a compliment.
I do like the fact that just because you do not agree everyone will assume that you have political affiliations.
Hey Bro' that's what us bigoted idiots do. That's what makes us stand proud and arrogant. We are right about everything and can always make up believable evidence to support it.
You don't get that talent from being stupid!
I am an ignorant asshole like you. We see eye to eye and hole to hole
Great post!
Thanks. I put in the effort, I appreciate the feedback.
I know what you are sayin', feels pretty damn good don't it
If I try it at home or work I just get bitch slapped. This is a great venue to go full asshole!!!
I look forward to working with you
The line of internet sarcasm gets pretty blurry with you. Based on the fact that in the end I really don't care, I will interpret this as genuine thoughts.
No doubt, I love the sarcasm, but you do to right?
That's what got my attention.
Almost everything I write is a sarcastic reply to a stupid comment, although I do occasionally stumble across something that seems to mimic intelligence. Very rare though.
You two should get a private room
I know your pain, that’s the way life is when your IQ is off the chart. My biggest problem is to not be obviously condescending and arrogant. I like to go right up to the edge where they can feel it but not know it.
I try to make it obvious intentionally. I find that if your reply is too riddled it is often lost on the majority of them.
Just another Thrasymaque wanna be. There are many around here.
Exactly, because its not like productivity or innovation created this very platform on which we are communicating...
Even if it did, that should not concern us. Killing evil CEO's should be our focus. Once they are dead we won't have as many people to be jealous of.
Rambling does nothing to prove a point MASTERdBATER, respect is gained through concise and factual based argument.... Sure kill all the evil CEO's, but with their death goes that computer you are typing on, the cell phone in your pocket, and the clothing on your back. If you truly believe in what you preach, you should rid yourself of these products from the evil corporations.
Factual based argument were cast away long ago. Do you read the responses of the typical OWS supporter? If I spent the time to present facts to back up a well thought out argument, all that I would receive here is gay porn spam and name calling.
My current methods are much more entertaining and I feel are just if not more effective. It is also clear that internet sarcasm is lost on you. Although I honestly don't blame you, for it can be very difficult to decipher.
While entertaining its also where all credibility ends..
No one can achieve credibility here if they do not suck from the cock of OWS.
Other than the OWSers that line up to take there six figured jobs so they can become the 1% they so desperatly hate.
That will be ok though, because they are OWS'ers and they are for the 99%. They are entitled to those positions. OWS is so powerful that they can be completely hypocritical and still be right ALL of the time.
No doubt, the hypocrisy is so thick here, it's like eating spoonfulls of peanut butter and chasing it with maple syrup (but only if its from the blue state of Vermont).
I founded a business and made $12,349 this year. Not too worried, because I plan on making more than that next year, without asking anyone for a job.
Not if OWS has their way you won't.