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Forum Post: Just an idea.

Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 11, 2012, 11:37 a.m. EST by Coyote1983 (61)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The facts as I see them are thus:

Capitalism, Communism, Democracy, Dictatorship, and any other system of government and economic system you can think of CAN work when properly implemented in an analog world.

But the world is changing.

With information able to move so quickly, we have to come up with a new system, because the old ones just cannot work anymore. Not with everyone being able to contact everyone like this.

The old systems are built on each country, each region, being largely cut off from the rest of the world and this is not the case anymore.

We need to start over from scratch and build a new way of doing things.

That's my two cents. If you agree, fine. If you think I'm retarded, that's your problem, not mine.



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[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 12 years ago

Constatine, Hitler, Mao, Napoleon
no one could get the world to start from "scratch"
seriously - why waste your time on this speculation?

[-] 1 points by Coyote1983 (61) 12 years ago

We definitely need to remember how they failed, that they failed and WHY they failed. And remember not to make those mistakes in creating a new system.

The main thing we need to keep in mind is that the internet and other information technologies are a major part of the world and daily life now. Information about police acting unlawfully against a group of protesters can be in the hands of millions in seconds in the form of video, text messages, ect. And that's just one example of how the world has changed.

The basic infrastructure of everything has been upgraded and we have to upgrade our society, our economics, and our systems of government to match.


[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Because if you cannot even imagine a different world, you have no hope of creating it. Imagination is the essential seed to man's ability to create anything new, whether it be a flying machine (impossible in its day) or a new order.



[-] 1 points by FarIeymowat (49) 12 years ago

7 billion people occupy the planet. All with an imagination different from the next. Bush thought Democraccy and freedom as a core human principal. It is not. Some societies want rules and religions in charge of them, to the point they do not mind tyranny. I believe we Need to pull back, close military bases and let countries figure out their own path. Less globalization, more localization.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

The point is not that 7 billion people imagine 7 billion things. Live and let live works for those who are not involved in global dynamics as well as those who are. You asked why speculate; I say why not? Did you watch the Rifkin video referenced above? It is an interesting idea. http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/jeremy_rifkin_on_the_empathic_civilization.html

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 12 years ago

For some reason it won't load.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Well, it's one of many innovative ideas to be found at ted.com; just go there and you can search on "empathy" or "rifkin" :)

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 12 years ago

A whole bunch of us in my generation (X(!)) had recognized that the 5000+ year Age of Growth is over and were answering what to replace it with. Those answers involve the Net if you want to look for them.

One of the best and most complete writers on the topic is Charles Eisenstein: The Ascent of Humanity: the age of separation, the age of reunion, and the convergence of crisis that is birthing the transition.

Unfortunately, the solution and beauty of the Transition was raped by the false gods of India (among other things) when the agnostic that created the transition, right here, found out the truth of YHVH and had to abandon several false spiritual traditions and accepted practices, resulting in a painful "miscarry". (Homosexuality for example, actually collapses the Adam unity because of the electrical qualities of semen.)

Ultimately, the miscarry was due the stupidity and neglect within the Christian Era, effectively forcing a secular answer for the Transition instead of the anticipated Messiah. That neglect brought the Native Americans to me (and many others who followed the whole Mayan calendar and such) before the Jews could find me. The Jews, as you may know are the only ones who had anticipated and had been waiting for such a Transition.

This is also why the occupy movement mostly has failed -- non-violence is simply not effective when astral entities choose pure evil, and that's what happened. If you want to know the details of that, you can contact me, but it has to do with how Lutherans promised people eternal life without having to do anything.

What comes now in the mess afterwards is still being determined/created....

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 12 years ago

Agree! The world is changing.. This is a great TED talk by Jeremy Rifkin on the empathetic civilization.


[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Great video and an innovative, informative website (Ted.com); it needs more promotion.

[-] 1 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 12 years ago

it is one of my favorites..

[-] 1 points by ninetymillion (32) 12 years ago

When you say global in nature, you think the world will buy in. There are people living a much more primitive life than we do. Some hunt with bow and arrows still, other live nomadic. I don't see a global government ever working, too many egos and demented minds in control of many countries.

To be able to move forward we need is a way to circumvent greed in prosperous nations, hunger everywhere, crime, terrorism and the need some have to be better than others. I don't see this happening, but reducing or limiting what levels of greed would sure help.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

no need to start from scratch

but ya

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23789) 12 years ago

Yes. The Industrial Revolution and it's aftermath is coming to a close. We are entering a new and momentous period in history. This is just the beginning.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 12 years ago

Can you expand upon this a bit? What will the "new and momentous period" entail?

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

I think one major thing it must entail is for each of us to learn how to listen to each other without rancor so we can learn to work together on global solutions to global problems. This means giving up the need to be right (i.e., correct) since hardly any problem has only one solution.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 12 years ago

Phanya2011, that's a very good point you've made. also patriotism and nationalism will be/are great obstacles to solving world problems

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23789) 12 years ago

I think it will entail a new economic system that is structured much differently than the capitalism we have today. It will probably be more global in nature. I think political systems will change too. These are things that will change over a long period of time, say 50 years. We will move away from the aftermath of the Industrial Revolution and the Protestant Reformation to something more suitable to the changes we see in society today. A new period is being ushered in but this doesn't happen overnight.

[-] 1 points by Concerned (455) 12 years ago

The aftermath of the Industrial Revolution - by this I take it you mean because technology requires more skilled labor while needing few laborers which is part of the income shift. I agree with you here - we are moving away from the ability of unskilled workers to find factory (lower level manufacturing) employment and will need to come up with other means of employment.

But I am not sure why you include the Protestant Reformation in your comment....can you explain that further.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23789) 12 years ago

Sure, the Protestant Reformation brought about the Protestant work ethic which basically postulated that it would be good and Christian to work hard in a secular world to develop capital and accumulate wealth. Many scholars attribute this work ethic to providing an important fundamental basis for the development of capitalism as an economic system.

In my opinion, it is the basis for the sort of Christian arguments you hear out there that it is okay to be wealthy. I worked for it. I don't have to share it. You have no right to "my money."

There's a wiki page on this:


[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

The New Age philosophies that have come into being shifts focus from the "human doing" to the "human being." We were taught that we had no value if we did not work hard, so many of us in the older generation felt we were worthless if we did not work, and work hard. The sign of hard work came to be money and what it could buy. So a couple decades later, the credit industry gave people the ability to appear prosperous (i.e a successful, hardworking person) without actually being so. Form over substance, a direct spinoff from the work ethic. Now we have a younger generation that we complain feels "entitled" -- well, good for them! Look where feeling "not good enough" got us.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23789) 12 years ago

Terrific post. I never thought of it that way. We really do need to get to the root of why we are here today the way we are. This kind of discussion is very productive. Only by understanding where we have come from can we get to the place we need to go.

[-] 2 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

If each one of us questions our belief system and recognizes that many beliefs were handed to us by society to keep the system going, then we can get to the root of our own true beliefs. For instance, is a college degree a better goal than to develop a skill? Is art and creativity as important for a society as other endeavors? Does having more stuff make one happy? This forum is replete with beliefs that have been repeated without question for decades. Living without question has been disastrous. OWS, has started the questioning process. Keep it up!

[-] 2 points by Listof40 (233) 12 years ago

This is a great point and a positive way of looking at it... Sometimes stepping back a little and re-examining things can help us open up new ways forward...

[-] 1 points by Coyote1983 (61) 12 years ago

Exactly! We have to step back and look at the global picture. First we need to build a governmental syatem in our own country that works. Then we have to make it relatively stable, then we MUST address the issue of third-world countries. At the same time, we have to keep an eye on the middle East, as unrest there does affect the rest of the world.

Also, once we have a new system that works in place, we have to talk to Europe, China, Russia, and the other major superpowers about adopting such a system, whatever it may end up being.

It may take several tries to find a new way of doing things that can work in the digital age, but we have to keep trying and we HAVE to keep our eyes on the big picture. Of course, when looking at the big picture, don't forget to zoom in from time to time and take a look at how everything affects the little man.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23789) 12 years ago

You too! I'm in it for the long haul.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 12 years ago

Are you familiar with the website www.ted.com? There is some outstanding thinking going on there.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23789) 12 years ago

Never heard of it, but just checked it out. Looks very very interesting. Thanks.