Forum Post: Documents show NYPD infiltrated liberal groups (as reported by Yahoo news)
Posted 12 years ago on March 24, 2012, 12:56 a.m. EST by francismjenkins
(3713)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am sure it is online here just as it is out in the open. Whenever a group of individuals goes against the 1%...the rich......it is always a sure bet they (the rich) will find a way to get in the middle of it or infiltrate the group, just to make sure it either..(A) becomes divided...(B) something unlawful can be brought out for the groups demise....(C) take it in another direction other than its original goal or (D) try to destroy it completely... They don't want their apple cart upset for any reason, and individuals in the militia...military, police, vigilantes...can be bought and paid for... Remember, Judas' can come in all sizes, shapes, colors and genders!!
Indeed, but IMO it is important for OWS to openly discuss this issue. It's one of those things that could eat away at moral, make people distrustful, etc., if OWS isn't proactive.
Amen !
Infiltration is to be expected and works both ways. Some dictatorships and empires collapsed and fell because they became paranoid and overplayed their cards. Overreaction begot overreach and eventually the burdens of control became too much and "things happen." Spying certainly contributed to the collapse of the former Soviet Union and may do so again for the others suffering from paranoia.
Further to this 'forum-post' and link, please consider the following articles :
"Big Brother On Campus - From breaking up Occupy protests to spying on Muslim students, homeland security is targeting college kids", by Michael Gould-Wartofsky ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30896.htm &
"Police State Blues - Our rights do not end where the caprice of authoritarian bullies begins.", by Phil Rockstroh ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30858.htm .
e tenebrris ...
It wouldn't be hard to do some serious take over of the system as it is today, But that requires all of us speaking the same thing and being of one mind, and that is the weakness that any human endeavor faces, specially one which can truly make a difference. The solution is there, but it seems it gets drowned with the bitter waters of hatred by those who come in here with less than honorable intentions. That is the key, being of one mind and speaking the same thing... but that requires discipline, trust me when I say this, it requires a level of selflessness that unfortunately we have not acquired yet as a people, not because we do not want to, but because we are easily distracted. This topic requires deeper discussion, and here in this forum that would be nearly impossible, there are too many of them pushing everything important down. God bless.
Maybe you're right, I don't know. I'm not quite sure how concerned anyone should be with this development, besides the fact that this is reminiscent of Jay Edgar Hoover's FBI (but of course even with Hoover's FBI, Civil Rights still happened). OWS is "sort of" transparent I think (I try to attend some rallies, but besides that I live about an hour north of the city right now, and I haven't been able to be as involved as I'd like to be ... so I'm not well attuned to the inner workings of this movement). But the way I see it is this ... the more transparent they are, the less OWS should need to worry about cops attending meetings.
I mean, transparency isn't about appeasing the police force, it is consistent with the core values of true democracy. But I think the people who are writing articles and are involved with organizing events, should give this issue some attention. I've heard some people say that they've attended rallies and were accused of being a police officer (maybe because they were a white guy in their 30's or something like that). I'm not really sure how true this is, but if it is true, it's a problem that needs to be addressed (and quickly).
If protesters view anyone who's white, male, clean cut, and looks like he's over 30, as a police officer, then it won't be long before people who are white, male, clean cut, and over 30, stop supporting OWS. This, I would imagine, is exactly what the NYPD would love to see. The more people get involved who "look like the rest of America," the more the rest of America will identify with this movement. Whatever we might think about this fact, imagery is a vital component of information dissemination. Additionally, just to state the obvious, you can become a cop at 21 (and you can easily have a young looking 25 or 26 year old police officer, who has 5 years on the job, and it's probably more likely that NYPD would use someone like that ... as opposed to using a 35 year old Irish or Italian guy, who looks like he was born with "cop" tattooed on his forehead). In fact if I were the NYPD, the last sort of person I would use to spy on OWS is someone who fits the cop archetype. I'd get a young cop, tell him not to shave, stay away from the barber, etc.
This is how the Civil Rights movement succeeded:
The first Freedom Ride began on May 4, 1961. Led by CORE Director James Farmer, 13 riders (seven black, six white, including Genevieve Hughes, William E. Harbour, and Ed Blankenheim) [6] left Washington, DC, on Greyhound and Trailways buses. Their plan was to ride through Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, ending in New Orleans, Louisiana where a civil rights rally was planned. Most of the Riders were from CORE, and two were from SNCC. Many were in their 40s and 50s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_riders
What would have happened if the Civil Rights movement alienated people who were above a certain age, a certain race, etc.? We can see from this small example that about half of the Freedom Riders would have possibly never participated (and their Freedom Ride may have gone unnoticed by history).
The importance of having all of us with one mindset is of epic proportions. Take for example this thread, as soon as it gets a lot of participation it will be infiltrated, give it a week or two and people will be discussing things that have nothing to do with the original intent of the poster. So we, if of one mind, would just not reply to them as to not add fuel to the fire, but once they start it is hard for the newcomer to be able to follow the thread. We must begin by changing the format of the forum, so that instead of a free for all, it is more organized and people when they get up in the morning, can pick what categories of topics they want to dive into. This is just a small example of things we can do here. I had created a website just to hold discussions, but got turned off by what goes in here with the trolls, so I decided to wait on that, maybe the format here will change and there will be no need for me to use that website I bought for that very purpose. But going back to the issue at hand, it think it is great if it is true that police officers come to the rallies, that can work to our advantage ( A little of Sun Tsu won't hurt ), since they will be exposed to the real truth of the movement instead of what they are being fed at the precincts before they are hyped up by their superiors. Divide and conquer works, and we have to give credit where it is due, whoever came up with that system was a genius. And the solution of that problem is right there in its name.... we must do the opposite to be victorious, "unite and be free" We all have been programmed to look for "differences" amongst ourselves, this way we can never come together as one people. Blacks and Whites must understand that we are all in this together, and that sometimes to move forward we have to first stop moving and re asses what we really want to accomplish at the end. In this case of ours, it is equality and freedom. So to attain that we must unite, meaning we have to let go of all this crap that has kept us divided, it is a fact that we have both good and bad people in all races, instead of being of the black race or the white race etc, let's all be of the HUMAN race and put that to rest. Once we put away all this petty differences, then we will be able to sit down at the table of reason, and come up with a true plan to achieve our goals. We must say NO to the divisive arrows being shot at us on a daily basis, whenever a post about race is posted, stay away from it don't post a thing to it, not even to expose to author as a troll, just let it slide into the abyss of obscurity where it belongs, and those posts which resemble our goals and aspirations will remain on top, not just for us to read, but to all prospective souls who come in here looking for guidance. Think about this, any prospective brother or sister who comes in here and starts to read on how "the solution for the racial problem is to kill a few white people" like someone posted today, that person will say "this is nuts!, I'm outta here" So for their sake we must do the right thing and until the system of posting is changed or improved, let us all take it into our own hands to keep the good informative topics on top. I think this reply is too long, sometimes I get lost in my thoughts....not a good thing sometimes. God bless. BC
Even with trolls, we don't want to exclude people (although rules of civility should be followed, and maybe this forum could benefit from a more organized template). It's easier to welcome people than it is to try and guess what someone's inner motives might be. It's much easier to organize something in a way that makes attempts at infiltration futile, than it is to try and expose people with bad intentions.
A climate of distrust erodes moral, and it's a slippery slope. I do understand that some people involved with OWS (particularly those who were assaulted by police, and were involved from its earliest stages) are to some degree traumatized (which is probably another issue OWS should pay attention to).
My point is simply this, we have an awesome opportunity, in most respects this movement is going well (notwithstanding the occasional setbacks). And if we deal with these problems in an intelligent way, there's no reason why they need to snowball into something that threatens the vitality of the movement.
I agree. Witch hunts are no good, but if one pays attention to what is being addressed in their posts, then it's easy to see who is here to destroy instead of building. This is indeed a great opprotunity, as far as guessing, no need to guess, it's a matter of reading. If I post " Let's kill all non whites" for example, that would clearly show my intentions, that is what I'm talking about, those posts need to be ignored and not engage them. Now if someone wants to discuss real issues then why not? but stuff designed to divide, really need to be ignored. I also think we are moving slowly, but in the right direction. Slow can be a good thing, even though some might "faint" along the way for wanton of instant results, the cautious pace forward is better than full steam ahead into a wall. Maybe some kind of OSW Think Tank can be a good thing, if anybody is interested in developing ideas to be brought out here, let me know, I already own the domain OSWThinkTank.com but there would have to be people somehow nominated, like a group of 10 or 20 individuals who would spend time discussing topics for the purpose of educating one another here. I'd nominate right of the top of my head guys like : GypsyKing, Therising, DKAtoday and let others nominate, then the webmasters here could take a poll, or I could set it up at the think tank website, but I'd rather do it here, this poll would serve as some kind of elections, then those ten would have access to a special forum I can set up at the think tank site and have at it, that would be the democratic thing to do in thsi case, that way, nobody can nominate him/herself and the vote would be done in a 24 hours period etc. Maybe I'm thinking too far into this.... :-) Just some thoughts. I do have the websites, so why not putit to good use? But that would take a team effort...... God bless BC
Some sort of democratic way to involve more people in the "thinking" process would be awesome.
I think if we did this, it would get more intelligent ways of going about things than the US Congress. If a groupd of guys wanna start a pilot program on this, let me know, send me a Private Message and I'll set it up. I think the names I suggested are a good start, we would need a more of course, but it's a start. Maybe a post should be made regarding this matter and see if those guys would be interested. I'm a hands on kind of guy, so when you guys are ready I'm ready. God bless. BC
[Removed]