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Forum Post: It’s time to move marijuana from the DEA to the ATF.

Posted 1 year ago on March 28, 2013, 6:09 a.m. EST by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

There are things in this world that Americans like and might not be good for them. We regulate those things through the ATF not the DEA. We know that nether alcohol, tobacco nor firearms are good for us, but we don’t care we like’em. Times change, after decades of civil disobedience Americans have demonstrated their preference for pot as a recreational option, it’s time the regs reflect that.

State by state progress is made:

Maine bill

WA ad



Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

state by state progress isn't progress, when the federal laws prohibit the indulgence. It is a fine example of free market capitalism at work - a multi-billion dollar industry, one where American children kill each other over sales territory.


We must either enforce the law

or change the law

and it might not hurt to keep in mind: the fukin shit grows wild

Why is it so goddamned hard to just do the right thing in this country, anywaz . . .

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You do know I'm suggesting a Federal Fix right ZenDog? I just wanted to highlight that something is happening in the East too seeing how so many people live there and all.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I get it, it's just a topic I find very irritating. The fukin stoners can't get their shit together to demand action apparently because they are all too busy watching Beavis and Butthead.

In consequence we have something like 3/4 of a million Americans in jail over minor drug offenses, and children dying in the city streets while organized criminals get rich.

And the richer they get, the more amenable society becomes to grant them an increasing degree of respectability . . . thus slowly bending the morals and character of American society . . .

or maybe I'm wrong, maybe we've always been indifferent to the suffering of others . . . maybe we've always just assumed, they must have earned it.

[-] 4 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

Beautiful post, in essence ZD, but , , ,

It's not that simple, Some substances are not just mind altering, but mind expanding. Marijuana is one of those very rare substances. People have a right to the biological inheritance of vegitation. The vegetable world has evolved hand in hand with us, and the desire to limit or control that inheritance is demeaning to human freedom, and to human dignity. Are we adults or children?

If people have an issue of drug dependency then illegalization evades, rather than corrects, that issue.

In the absence of illegalization the underlying problem is seen for what it is . . . usually that people are medicating themselves against the pain of an injust social order. I'm surprized you don't see that.


[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

The social order need not be unjust for life to be painful - it is painful, even for those at the top of our social order. Each of us surely must try several different coping strategies throughout the course of our lives, and for some, substances provide the allure of promised relief, whether real or imagined.

I get that quite well, and therefore am not usually too judgmental of alcoholics who quit, however briefly, only to return to their previous stupor . . .

[-] 3 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

I know that, you're a thinker. I was just trying to make a deeper point - for those reading who might not see it - which I realize you probably already understand:)

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

sooo . . .

Are you sorry you killed the Albatross?

[-] 3 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

Ha! One guy got it! I have filled my posts with such refferences to our collective literature. We have a Great literary inheritance in The West . . . truely Great, but not nearly enough have really opened their eyes to it!

And yes! . . . I'm damned sorry that I killed the albatross - that we are all killing the albatrosss - that as we now speak the albatros is being killed.

Thanks for understanding the refference!!!

[-] 4 points by gsw (2870) 1 year ago

And this albatross is our collective conscience?

Shall have to read And discover.

Or is albatross the trolls who inhabit this place?

Back to work on the books, we need new good reads for thirsty souls, return when work is finished. Or this sight may become a substance of abuse, and real work not finished....back to the trenches and desks and pens that light the way

Farewell the day ancientmariner, may waters be kind to all

And family loved must be our work

We are pleased you could pass by

And remind us of the albatross

[-] 3 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

Our collective conscience, yes.

Beautifully written, and I thank you.

And I will heed your advice - "And family loved must be our work."

Yes indeed. You are the light here now, carry on -

And thanks, and thanks again.

[-] 3 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago


[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I am the albatross

coo coo ka chue

[-] 3 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

And the Walrus? We are all the albatros and the walrus - coo coo ka choo!

And hey, the thought police are already voting us down!

Coo coo ka chue!

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I enjoyed reference & discussion so I twinkled you guys.

"oompa, oompa, everybody smokes pot"

[-] 2 points by gsw (2870) 1 year ago

Thus this sight has devolved to multiple-account jealous stinkletons

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

thanks for stopping by

[-] 3 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

It's hard to entirely abandon the fascinating, ongoing discussion here.

My wife would kill me if she knew I was back at it here . . . again - LOL! I need to finish working on my fishing boat.

But this forum provides something we in America have been missing for far too long, due to TV and to a great number of other factors far more destructive than Marijuana!

Thanks for hanging in there, despite all the guys whose fathers were a bunch of uptight, Republican, right-wing, assholes, and who need to justify that "inheritance" by attacking those with a history of conscience:)

PS . . . I exclude Odin and Builder, and a few others here, 'cause I know a genuine seeker when I see one!

Let us hope we can break these barriers down! It is these divisions exactly through which the Oligarchs destroy us all.

[-] 2 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

Damnit - we really need to stop cutting each others throats here and find unity! gsw points the way clearly with his pragmatic, method oriented approach! We are the 99%! Let's NOT succumb to this infighting . . . to this all too human, but counterproductive squabbling!

I've come to hate it here, all this infighting, just can't do this anymore - seeing people I respect on both "sides" cutting each other's throats here every day.

The 1% must just love to see that. So many here have pointed out the possibilities of workplace cooperatives, but just look around . . . how much cooperation do you see?

Let us rather find a program of going forward that works, and WORK IT, and lay all this damned bickering to rest.

You and Odin are Builder are all my friends, or at least I would like to think so. I would like to imagine a world where we could just lay down our damned swords once and for all, in the realization that all they do is make us bleed. Maybe I'm just a dreamer, and the animal in us is greater then the spiritual being we are struggling to become. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm leaving all this now for those with stronger stomachs. Best of luck to you, and Think - (and this isn't aimed at you, or at your "opponents" here, but at all of us, Myself Included) . . . is what we're fighting over more important than what we're fighting for . . .?


[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

seeing what is, is often difficult, comment/posts mean many things sorting through that can be tough, there are honest differences and there are those with more secretive of purpose, these people can be found out in time and they do pose a threat to achieving the change we need, thus divides occur, I strive each day to see reality and to move toward effective action thus I always engage in discussion, what I find is some see we just disagree others are here for other purpose and when words fail they shift to harassment and namecalling this is what Odin did after many weeks of chat he went for the namecalling chasing me around the site, he claims he was banned around then, i don't really know much about such things.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I'd really like it if you stopped by and tell me what you think of my little Imagine rip.


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You should see what's happening in states like Arizona before judging the "potheads" too harshly. It's always my position that folks are folks, but that group does have certain traits. I developed a theory, then a formula on a couple of those traits and knew mmj had passed in AZ days before the vote counters. Knowing you have some interest in such things I’ll share if I may. You see the vote here in AZ was very close in 2010, the two before had not been but 2010 was a very conservative electoral overall. So on election night the word was that mmj had failed but there were many provisional ballots to be counted, as there always are in AZ due to our mailin system. Counting these ballots almost never changes the outcome as the reasons for the provisional ballots are normally random. However I had a theory that since young people were more likely to have signed up for early voting due to the many booths where they frequent and young people are not great at keeping up with their snail mail. In az if you sign up for early ballot then show up to vote at the polls you have to vote provisional till they ensure you didn’t mail one in too. I assumed young people likely support mmj and therefore the outcome would change. As the first counts on the provisional ballots came in I worked out a formula based on how liberal/conservative each percent was and outstanding number of votes and knew that if they counted all the votes mmj would pass. Now in honor of the movement to move cannabis from the DEA to the ATF, I will be entering ATF in the first AZ 420 Cup.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I still know a few pot heads - in fact, I even was a pot head, once upon a time . . . and for some reason I seem to think that gives me license to be judgmental - I'm wrong of course but there it is.

The silly fukers have become enthralled by their own couch - shackled to the television and totally oblivious to the state of humanity all because they cannot demand justice . . .

IF they all turned up at the local cop shop on the same day, and demanded processing under the law, everything would change.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Same could be said for paying credit cards too, and I know you're not afraid to say it, but there are down sides for people. On the other hand there will be one hell of a party at the hotel downtown on 4/19-21 so what the hell it's a start.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I guess . . . it's just that this has all been going on for decades, the death toll is mounting, the hypocrisy unbearable, and it provides a huge market for the surveillance industrial complex which may soon be found on every street corner . . .

I don't like it.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

public places will be for private viewing, as it is in London, adapt I guess...oddly Scalia and Thomas are allies here?

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

and under Bush programs funding grants to local police agencies were cut, I think they were programs Biden authored while in the Senate. I just assume repelicans find an undercurrent of fear within our society quite useful.

Take away the war on drugs, and you remove the incentive for nitwit networking, and without that, much of the purpose of the cameras on street corners goes away.

Except now we have the war on Terror so I suppose with or without the war on drugs, the cameras will stay.

If these two members of the Supreme Court oppose the cameras, it may well factor into their consideration that such devices tend to curb group stalking - of course with fascism at the reins of power such devices facilitate the elimination of dissent.

We aren't in Kansas anymore - and of that I am sure they are aware . . .

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I reference them because they were part of the five that overturned the right of a cop to bring a drug dog up onto your porch, not sure where they stand on cameras but one good thing was in 2002 I think when the Court said they couldn't use infrared to peek inside without a warrant. I know that when they talk about drug policy the cops and prison guards come out hard core, it's a jobs program for them.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Cops on the front line don't think in terms of social organization or funding, do they? I think it's more likely cultural bias, and the recognition of sacrifice that has already been made, that determines attitudes regarding the war on drugs among rank and file law enforcement personnel.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I actually think that often when you see law enforcement commenting on cannabis legal issues they have their own jobs in mind. Many cops I have know personally are rather pro legalization as they see how stupid it is, the way we are doing things now, but they are front-line.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13427) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

and they don't have a lot of choice when it comes to the law - they don't write it.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

Why is it so goddamned hard to just do the right thing in this country, anywaz . . .

because MOST of our political leaders have tiny dicks ... & smaller balls

[-] 1 points by antifascism (1) 1 year ago

Ah the $60,000 dollar question. "Why is it so goddamned hard to just do the right thing in this country, anywaz...". I think we both no the answer to that. FASCIST PROPAGANDA.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Not to mention the cleanest-burning oil on the planet, and the byproduct of oil production is one the most nutritious protein sources available.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8655) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago