Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: It's not what they say they are doing, it's what they are doing.

Posted 2 years ago on March 16, 2012, 9:26 a.m. EST by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Okay I am just a no body from a small town of the Western United States. I think maybe I am a bit too simple minded to really help, I really hate politics, and never really thought that one voice could help fix what’s really wrong. I also really hate my high school civics teacher, The one Vote Matters speech…Yuck!

Well its getting on to election time, so I want to know, who we can look for to guide America out of this situation. So I start looking around, poking around the web for information, You know the President can only get done what Congress and the Senate passes to him as a bill. So off I go to check Voting records, you know is the Idiot I elected doing his/her job….

Now please remember I just want to see America get out of its present situation. I just wanted to know who to vote for…..

Well here is what I found, kind of interesting how Grandpa’s view of Politian’s come to mind.

I found this H.R. 4: Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011. Yea I remember everyone talking about that on the news. You know give the Joe Worker a Tax Break. Cool right, That one Vote Matter’s Speech it isn’t a law until the President signs it. Check the Amendments to it and read the summary of what our President signed into law…..

Hey this bill has nothing to do with me getting a tax brake or is it, Yeap right there in the Summary is that $75. per American Tax Credit until 2021. Cool right…

Na I say check the amendments that were signed into this before it became law.

There are two; These were found using the govtrack.us website system

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-4

112th Congress: 2011-2012 To repeal the expansion of information reporting requirements for payments of $600 or more to corporations, and for other purposes. AMENDMENTS The following are amendments proposed for this legislation. Click an amendment's name to read the text of the amendment, where available. (1) H.Amdt. 174 from House Rules Pursuant to the provisions of H. Res. 129, an amendment in the nature of a substitute consisting of the text of H.R. 705 is considered as adopted. Proposed: Mar 3, 2011. (2) S.Amdt. 284 by Sen. Menéndez [D-NJ] To protect small businesses from health insurance premium increases or losses of health insurance coverage. Proposed: Apr 4, 2011.

So now let me get this right, I get $75 as a Tax credit, Cool..

Here is what was signed into Law;

Congressional Research Service Summary The following summary was written by the Congressional Research Service, a well-respected nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress. GovTrack did not write and has no control over these summaries. 4/5/2011--Passed Senate without amendment. (This measure has not been amended since it was passed by the House on March 3, 2011. The summary of that version is repeated here.) Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011 - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to: (1) repeal requirements for the reporting to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) of payments of $600 or more to corporations that are not tax-exempt and of gross proceeds paid in consideration for any type of property; (2) repeal requirements for reporting payments made with respect to rental property which is not part of a trade or business; and (3) increase, for taxable years ending after December 31, 2013, the advance applicable dollar amount of the tax credit for health care premium assistance for taxpayers whose household income is less than 400% of the poverty line.

So Uncle Sam can rent a corporations building, the corporation doesn’t need to report the income (fully)…Humm Ok ( I will be fair.) fully, as long as the amount is over $600.00 the corporation doesn’t need to report it, okay that might be cool is Uncle Sam was in Business…But the next line kills it all..All corporations now do not have to report incomes of rental property which are not part of trade or business. And the final straw of this and the reason I now set and write this little note. Health care assistance, They want me to smile about this…..

Grandpa’s view of a Politian “They are there to steal from ya, watch you can tell, see they are smiling.”

I say well dang high school civics teachers, One vote counts ok, lets throw them all out one vote at a time. There was 273 co-sponsors to this bill, both Republican and Democrat. Chas Della Silva Boise ID

20 Comments

20 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID 2 years ago

Isnt this the very proof that says the OccupyWallStreet is right, isnt main stream media doing any investigations.

There just has to be an option for America, Republican or Democrat isnt anymore.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

so collecting rent for properties is not taxed ?

[-] 2 points by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID 2 years ago

As long as its not for business or trade they do not have to report it.

I wish they had given me this type of tax break until 2021

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

" Well, they are politicians. What more can you expect?" is what most people say when anyone raises concern about the lack of transparency and ethical leadership in this country. Politicians make a mockery of our jurisprudence. To them it's a game and they behave like frat boys and girls on a debate team with no real vested interest or concern about the outcomes- other than 'winning' that round. It really doesn't matter which party wins because they all benefit and feed from the same trough. They work for each other/the 1%- NOT US. What really boggles me is that the same Americans who know that our politicians are corrupt greedy clowns masquerading as superiors of a land, will flee to the polls with great enthusiasm and a genuine belief that the person that are voting for is actually worthy of their vote! I don't get it. I used to vote but I don't anymore. A part of me feels like I'm betraying my country if I don't and yet another part of me feels like I'm betraying my country if I do. I don't want to participate in their game anymore. Every time I vote, I feel like such a fool that has allowed herself to be manipulated and then betrayed. Anyone who has ever been betrayed in a relationship can relate to my feelings. It's no different. When a person/voter keeps getting betrayed over and over again, they begin to question their own ability to reason and make good choices. But, it's not us that is dysfunctional or illogical or insane. We are being manipulated by some of the most successful narcissists in the world to trust them and their agenda like we would trust God. Isn't it ironic that our currency even says, ' In God We Trust". It's sort of like a subliminal message that is being sent to us that ' they' are God and that they are the brightest and the best of the lot. But, let's get real. Just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they are good one...they could have been bottom of their class and just because someone is a teacher doesn't make them a great educator..they could have skimmed by on a C average. Politicians got where they are because they had money and they had friends, not because they had good character or a finely tuned wisdom or higher intelligence. These are people who would be America's CEO's if they were not politicians and we all know that the majority of CEO's are not very concerned about their customers.
Yes, vote them all out. BTW, I seem to remember something about Jefferson and how he had intended for Congress to consist of lay people who represent the different sectors of our population and industry. I could be remembering this incorrectly. Our House of Representatives is by far anything that resembles a true America. Might be worth researching or asking your Civics teacher...assuming that he or she is one of the brightest and the best.

[-] 1 points by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID 2 years ago

I agree with you on your points, but I want to point out something about numbers.

The Labor Party of Poland was responsible for how much change?

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I understand how you're feeling about voting. But please reconsider. Our vote is all we've got left. It disgusts me as well to be part of this sickening charade. But it's all we've got to try to fix our Republic. We either work to fix it or it continues to degenerate. Not voting only serves the interests of the 1%. Plato said 2500 years ago that Republics, left unchecked, become oligarchs. We can't continue to leave our Republic unchecked. Voting helps to keep our Republic in check. Too many people don't vote. That's part of the problem. More people voting can only help! It would never hurt a Republic to have more voters. Never!

"In God We Trust" and "one Nation, under God" - nevermind that it probably violates the establishment of religion clause in the First Amendment. But it's never been challenged in Court (not that I know of anyway).

But, yeah, it has the affect of making people believe that everything the government does is right and good because the government is on God's side, and so, God must also be on the government's side. Because it says so right on our money. Never mind the crazy laws that get passed. God will take care of everything - just have faith. Do what your $1 bill tells you to do - "In God We Trust"! As long as the 99% still has $1 to their names anyway! : )

Religion in politics is a big problem, in general. It's what's used to get most Republican's elected.

We have to fix our Republic is all. End the corruption by getting money out of politics.

http://movetoamend.org/amendment

or

have you seen this proposed amendment -

http://occupywallst.org/forum/fixing-cu-v-fec-the-constitutional-way/#comment-676241

http://www.change.org/petitions/pass-the-human-rights-amendment

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

“What better way to enslave a man than to give him the vote and tell him he’s free.” -Albert Camus

"It's not the vote that counts. It's who counts the votes."

[-] 1 points by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID 2 years ago

I dont have to go back to Plato to understand that Politains are not stewards. while I agree the Moral Crusader's stance about America is constant manipulations, a very miss leading stance, they are going to keep using it. There just is too many sheep.

To check the system we have to amend the system. For me that means change, we need our own party, something for us the people.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I agree. But I'm not sure there can be a meaningful third party (Tea Party is just another shade of Red) without campaign finance reform. The two parties are entrenched which creates barriers to entry. I think meaningful campaign reform will open the system up to all kinds of possibilities.

[-] 1 points by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID 2 years ago

No see the Tea Party is within the party, it will carry the same electoral votes as it is the party.

Another Party upsets the status quo, here is who I would vote for within that Party, Find me a small business owner like say a Barbershop owner form Kansas, A line worker from Detroit, an unemployed soldier or A teacher from any elementary school. Anyone one of those who couldn’t buy dinner last night will do, for they are our true patriots.

Thus this new Party takes away the Electoral College votes, thus the change becomes real.

To leave the two parties alone, is to leave your children responsible for your mistakes. That is what happened in the 70’s. They sure have put them bras back on, stopped calling America a War monger, They are still putting that gas in that tank. They are now either screaming Tea Party Moral Crusades, or I didn’t inhale, play with that intern, or this guys Almost Oliver Twists stance of more please.

Campaign Reform

GIVE ME ANOTHER CHOICE!

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

Hi April, Thanks for sharing those links. I'll vote for those! I do agree with your ideology and principles but I believe we are already an oligarch- one with a different name. Whether we vote or not always serves the interests of the 1 percent because we are electing a member of the 1percent. Look at it this way...if America, during slavery, elected members of the KKK and continued to do so, then how could we possibly expect to abolish slavery and racism? We keep doing what we've been doing and expecting different results. This mindset defies all logic. It truly doesn't matter who we vote for anymore...perhaps never did. Whether we vote or not only matters to the candidates and frankly, I don't even believe they care who actually wins since they already receive all they desire anyway. It' s not as if any of them have anything to gain by becoming president- -a portrait in Encyclopedia Brittanica?? Oh, but that went out of business the other day. :(

Who in the hell ( oops, sorry for cursing) would equate money with God and taint God's image with the root of evil? Several years ago, there was an athiest man in California that did actually sue the government re: our currency and the religious slogan. But, he lost. I believe others have also challenged the currency issue. The thing that makes no sense about many athiests who challenge this issue is that these are people who are willing to celebrate Christmas even though they are not Christians ( in this case, the man was an athiest) , they accept Christmas bonuses from their boss, they buy presents and accept them, they take Christmas vacation, Easter vacation, etc... but then whine about our currency being too religious and find that offensive. So do they also celebrate Hanukkah? What about Mabon or Solstice? Probably not. If you Google, I think you might find info re: the case I'm referring to.
How can voting possibly change the course of anything if we can't vote for someone who will actually represent the people? We are so simple minded that we actually believe that if someone is a member of a particular party that they are working for the citizens who align themselves with that party. Under the current system, no leadership will alter the course of this nation in favor of it's citizens. It's all just an illusion perpetrated by all the wealthiest despotic leaders of our world. You can't even be considered for office unless you have millions of dollars in the bank. Money is the key, not brains, not character, not any business acumen. So essentially, we are just voting for the candidate who was most successful at marketing themselves and raising money. Those are desirable qualities for someone seeking an executive job at Delmonte- not necessarily good for the presidency.
I've often wondered though what would happen if no one voted. Do you suppose we would still be told that we have a new leader? Ok, so please forgive my cynical and warped nature. I've probably weathered a few more storms in my life than you have so if I'm bitchy, I have a legit excuse :D Even so, I sincerely respect and admire your refreshing breath of hope and faith in our country and our future and I thank you for being a positive force in such a negative world. We need more folks with your ' utopian' ideals to force us to a higher level of thinking and behaving. I'm not making fun of you. Ironically, my friends are always accusing me of being too utopian and unrealistic for our world. hahahha I'm an aquarian so I have that excuse too. Alright then April..because you're a nice person, I'm going to vote but only if you tell me who to vote for and I have one other requirement: Round up a passe of voters that will vote the same way. I'll vote along with you and that way I can feel like I'm contributing to a team effort.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I see your point about slavery and the KKK. But you're assuming more people would vote for a person supporting the KKK, than not.

Think about this - if nothing else - it is entirely more likely that a Republican President would nominate a Supreme Court Justice that would be in favor of overturning Roe. Or some other awful thing that would set back women's rights. If for nothing else, we need to vote to prevent this possibility. The war on women is waged by Republicans. They are driven by the Religious Right.

And it was Republican nominated Justices that passed Citizens United. (four out of five that voted for CU were Republican nominees, all four that voted against were Democratic nominees).

Yes, to some degree, voters allow themselves to be suckered in by the marketing of a campaign. Some people are easily swayed by the marketing, a feel good emotional response, rather than doing the hard work of fact checking. That is all the more reason also, that more people who will do the work of checking out the facts, use logic and reason in their decision making, get their votes counted. To offset, and hopefully overwhelm, those that have been suckered in and vote based on lies, distortion, emotion and religion.

You're so funny!! I don't think you're bitchy. And I totally understand your cynicism. I'm far from utopic fantasies. It's just that I believe that doing something, however small and insignificant it may seem, is better than doing nothing at all.

You're going to vote because of me?!! You're so sweet! Look, I think Pres. Obama is a dickhead sometimes. But I think the Republicans are way way bigger dickheads! But I believe Pres. Obama is far less likely to nominate a Justice that would attempt to harm women's rights and a woman's right to choice. Vote based on this. On the possibility of a Supreme Court nomination, even if you believe that no President or Congress can affect any meaningful policy legislation.

But I do believe that voting Democratic will have at least the possibility for better economic policies and results (even amongst an increasingly dysfunctional Congress) than if Republicans continue to control, especially the House.

It's Republican tax policy that has contributed to wealth concentration. It's Republican economic ideology that drove dangerous deregulation, the repeal of Glass Steagall, that contributed to the financial crisis. It's Republican ( and even Libertarian) ideology that believes that unrestrained free market capitalism will cure all economic ills. When it was unrestrained free market capitalism that helped create the economic ills we have today. So they would employ more free market principles to fix the sickness that free market principles have already gave us. They would continue regressive tax policies that will only serve to further increase wealth concentration. It's like trying to cure your vodka hangover with more and more vodka.

And it's only Democrats that are even talking about, and at least trying, to create legislation to end government corruption. Trying to end corp personhood and the money as speech issue.

These are two of my favorite clips. They say much better what I try to say! One is a seminar by Elizabeth Warren where she talks about 30 years of middle class wage stagnation. The other is an interview with Bruce Bartlett (former Reagan tax advisor) about Republican tax policy. (They're a little long, but worth it when you have some time!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A&feature=relmfu

http://billmoyers.com/segment/bruce-bartlett-on-where-the-right-went-wrong/

I don't want to tell you who to vote for. Your own thoughts, beliefs and vote counts! I hope that you will come to the conclusion to vote Democratic. If I have a little influence on that, thats ok. But it's got to be what you believe in. Anything else is tyranny. And that helps none of us.

But if it helps, I do volunteer work for a Democratic candidate for Representative (non-incumbent). So, yeah, I try to round people up to vote!

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

Hi April, You wrote: I see your point about slavery and the KKK. But you're assuming more people would vote for a person supporting the KKK, than not.

No, I'm not assuming that the majority would vote for a KKK member. My point was that it really doesn't matter who wins because they all share the same mindset that got us to where we are today and end up selling us out in lieu of money for whatever reason. I agree that Dems appear to have a more citizen-friendly agenda throughout history but again, it seems to me to be more an illusion than a reality. Part of our problem in this country is that we try to classify everything into one of two parties/mindsets and of course they ' need' to oppose each other. The two party system is very destructive, unproductive and stifles progress and objective thinking. They behave like uncivilized meatheads on a football field and it's shameful that they represent our country like that in front of the world. Neither party has the right idea anymore than any single religion on earth has it right about God. We need to evolve to a more intelligent way of conducting politics that addresses issues with open minds that welcome solutions, not popularity.

I'm on your side and agree with all you wrote. Even so, I simply don't have the confidence in our leadership or our ' democratic process'.
The voting process? I don't have confidence in that either.

I had a lot of faith in Obama but he patronizes us with great ideas and plans to implement these grand ideas in the future. Essentially, all he manages to do is give corps like Big Insurance plenty of time to devise a new scheme to protect their profits while Americans are dying, suffering, losing homes, losing jobs, getting screwed even more by creditors. Obama's credit reform was simply a joke. I got so screwed by credit companies as a result of his reform that would take place in a few months. If he doesn't get re-elected then all that change he promised will never come to fruition. Actually, even if he does get re-elected, I'll bet he finds some way to compromise us even more to satisfy the demands of Wall Street.

Love Bill Moyers.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I totally hear ya! But I can't help hold out a bit of hope that with a more willing Democratic House (and hopefully Senate too!), the President will be able to accomplish a little more. Every little bit will help. And sometimes it helps being a lame duck. He will not be beholden to those he was beholden the first go around. I know it's not much.

But maybe we just need a little bit of good legislation, like the Buffet tax rules, to help. Just give people a little more in their pocket, a little hope that the government is helping them. A little spark of consumer confidence could light a little flame in the economy. Just so people don't go nuts. Our consumer debt rates still need to come down!

But just a little something to keep everyone going until we can over turn CU, and corp personhood. Whatever it's gonna take to get some meaningful campaign reform. We just need to keep going until then!! Not let the 1% keep taking! The Romney tax plan is God-awful!! It would raise taxes a few percent on the middle class! And lower rates on the wealthy!

I know it's stinks to high Heaven. You just gotta hold your nose when you vote! Vote a straight Democratic ticket to get it over with as quickly as possible, like swallowing cough medicine. It sucks, and it doesn't help very much, but it's better than nothing.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

Hold my nose is exactly what I shall do...just for a good f'n laugh through the whole durn thing. I'll also wear my bathing suit and swim cap with goggles...hahaha Obama cut a deal with wall street that if they would finance his campaign, he would give them immunity/take all judgment off the table. Since then, I've noticed that people are able to get more loans, spending more, houses are selling, the market has greatly improved. It all sounds great but it also sounds hauntingly familiar and seems that we've not learned out lesson. This is just another Bush repeat...It's just another very expensive superficial quick fix. C'est la vie

BTW,I just heard that the lawyer of the soldier who shot the Afghan families is using the excuse that he did this because he saw another soldier get his legs blown off. I find this absolutely shameful. The man is a soldier, he is trained for war, not an episode of Survivor. He has shamed our country and put our security at risk. If an Afghan or anyone from another country had done this to our soldiers, we'd torture them. But our soldier is better than others? It's our double standards and our high and mighty arrogance that is going to destroy us. Ron Paul is right that we offend when we bully and nation build. Burning the Quran and murders in one week? If our soldiers can't do their job of protecting us, then who will?

[-] 1 points by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID 2 years ago

I am sorry I held out for hope until I read that he the President with line item veto power signed that law.

I understand the idea of having a hopeful Democrateic stance, Arts, Education, Healthcare, Small Business, and Reform.

The fact that he signed this bill without a line item veto says more about what he is doing, not what he is saying. This could have been the focal point of this election, the idea that we could change, could have been the battle cry of that very change.

Alas like a puppet on a string did that ink fall on paper. As did the hope of the parties.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

I have a lot of compassion for Obama...or I did anyway. I know he was dumped on long before he took office and inherited a huge mess. But, if he can't be anymore effective than he has been, then why have a president at all? Why not just elect a corporation to run the country? Obama suffers an identity crisis on so many levels and unfortunately, his intelligence takes a backseat to his insecurities. He is a puppet in so many ways. He even bailed out Wall Street after criticizing Bush for doing so. Then, like Bush, he didn't even make sure that the money was used properly. Same mindset, different president, different party.

[-] 1 points by IdahoChas (9) from Boise, ID 2 years ago

That is my point from earlier he has line item Veto powers.

America Needs a American with backbone, one that says Hey I got an idea, and that idea is something America can stand for, I dont care if its Snoopy. America has to believe in America, with Democrats being wimps and Repulicains screaming Morals. We have to find answer.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

I meant to ask you...since you're from Boise...do you remember your governor several years ago...can't think of his name..but he rode his bike to work, didn't have a car, lived in a regular home and refused the governor's mansion? He was probably one of the most ' real' and practical leaders of our time. He thought it was absolutely wasteful for a governor to be living in a glamorous mansion paid for by tax payers. He said that he didn't need a big fancy mansion to do his job. I wish I could think of his name.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

It's very frustrating isn't it? I think that part of the problem is that we have become a country that caters to everyone's plight and eccentric demands which leaves us wide open, without any real and effective boundaries/rules/laws and an individual sense of personal accountability. If people had a sense of really effective leadership, they would be more accountable for themselves and focus more on the important things in their lives and not on whining and seeking litigation for every little disappointment they suffer in life. They would be protesting against unjust wars and not suing Haines for cheap socks that snagged after one use. Our leaders are too afraid to say NO to issues that they should and instead focus on the those ambiguous and subjective issues like birth control, morality, etc... when those issues really have no place in our government to begin with. I believe they do this to clutter our minds with confusing waste-- a diversion away from the real and costly issues that affect our nation. Speaking of waste- there is so much waste in this country overall. We waste time, waste money, waste natural resources and I don't even think that we even make real strides in advancing our thinking or our behavior. All the money that is wasted on shoddy product manufacturing, government subcontracting for meaningless projects, lawsuits over silly issues,etc.. enough is enough. Americans need to wake up and start commanding more responsibility by acting like responsible and intelligent citizens. As a nation, none of us has a backbone and the politicians know it and play right into our whining. They behave like a bunch of dysfunctional parents who lack parenting skills and just pacify their kids with meaningless spoils.