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Forum Post: It is time for a true democracy

Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 8, 2012, 4:10 p.m. EST by rents2high (6)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

A message to occupy wall street ,

Our voice is powerful and wonderful. People are hearing it around the world. People are listening. Banks and other large corporations are scared. However, it is time to take the movement to the next level. It is time for real actions to be taken. We the people have the ability to end this form of rampant capitalism. We as a people are strong and will only become stronger. It is necessary to keep protesting and to keep being heard, without the protest we have no voice, and our message will go unheard. However presenting a message to the public is just the beginning. In order for the occupy movement to be successful a lasting community of love, support, and compassion most be built. No longer can we allow things like sex, religion, race, and sexual preference separate us. It is time to embrace cultural difference and teach each other how to live as one. It is time that we realize that we are able to support each other. It is time that we work together to physically move the boulder that is capitalism. One can yell at a rock for so long. The occupy movement has the ability to succeed where other movements have failed. Within the movement there is a new collective consciousness. We the people are aware that this form of capitalism no longer functions to support a healthy community. We the people are ready for something new. This change is not going to be handed to us no matter how much we yell, reason, and beg. This change needs to come from a populist movement of systemic change. Capitalism, socialism, and communism are nothing more then economic systems; none are inherently fascist or democratic. In fact all three have an equal chance of being democratic or fascist. The change in which the movement should seek is true democracy. This means that we all need to have adequate voice in our political system. In a true democracy the banker would have the same voice as a man without a roof over his head. To accomplish a true democracy we do not need to over throw our government. We need to destroy the economic system that has taken control of everything in our lives. At first it may seem like an impossible task, but there is a simple way to go about systemic change. The basics of a capitalist system are supply and demand. For this reason it will be relatively easy to break down the capitalist system and create something so much better. We the people can dissect every aspect of our capitalist system. If we work together we will be able to disrupt both the supply and demand of the system. The fastest way to destroy what we all see as the problem is to simply stop giving money to the industries that abuse all of us. In order to do this we need to create a network that is for the people and by the people. We the people need to take control of every aspect of our lives. This may sound like a daunting task but we have to realize that we are the system, we are the educators, we are the doctors, we are farmers, we are the producers of goods, we are the cogs in the machine, and we are the fuel that keeps the machine moving. Without us, without the power of the people the capitalist system has nothing. Let us move forward. Let us create something beautiful. Let us forget about profits. Let us live of a life filled with compassion for one another. Let us move beyond this form capitalism. Let us become democratic.



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[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 12 years ago

The state is not so easily distinguished from the economic system which it supports. At the center of the Constitution is the commerce clause. The Constitution at its heart is a system of government specifically designed to support a capitalist political economy and a cooperative society will require a fundamentally different form of governance.

[-] 1 points by guyfawkes1984 (7) 12 years ago

true democracy, yes! end to corporatism yes! end to finance capitalism yes! but what about social capitalism? maybe this is the answer? http://www.thesocialistrepublic.org/

[-] 1 points by 903w (24) 12 years ago


dude, stop putting all the fake stuff that other people say on your plate and spit out something concise

[-] 1 points by ETHABHAE (13) from Seattle, WA 12 years ago

Yes this can be the time for change, for revolution, or Democratic reform and the destruction of this capitalistic society that has for so long undermined our progress and freedom. No this is not a Democracy led by and for the people, we do not benefit from this system, regardless of the corruption of government. Capitalism benefits capitalist, and the American people are not, we are tools that feed consumption and the pockets of the one percent. This movement has the potential to see that end.

We need to support our local and small businesses, reevaluate our priorities and stop buying from and boycott corporations/big industry until they at least bring production back home. Technically we can support ourselves without them if we localize and return to eco-communalism, which has always (historically) proved to be self sustaining.

But honestly I see a codependency that is manifested in our culture and the way we live our lives i.e the "American Dream". Capitalism isn't going anywhere, but we can reduce the affect it has on our governmental institutions and policies. If we boycott these industries politicians will no longer need to ignore our wants and needs and harbor their special interest.

I'd prefer to see a transition to Democratic Socialism and an ousting of capitalism altogether, but our culture simply does not lend itself to those ideals. The greed of big companies has translated into ultra-materialism for the masses/consumers, i.e the American Dream. But again, some change can be achieved.

Via la revolution!

[-] 1 points by zymergy (236) 12 years ago

Nine lines from the bottom of your post you wrote that we should "simply stop giving money to the industries that abuse all of us". Six lines up from this you wrote "we need to destroy the economic system that has taken control of everything in our lives". Can you explain if and how those two ideas are connected? Can you offer practical alternatives to either action?

[-] 1 points by rents2high (6) 12 years ago

The industries that abuse us are capitalistic. They need our money to survive. Without our money the industries will fail. Without capitalistic industry the economic system that has taken control of our lives will be destroyed. In order to do this we need to get rid of the hierarchical system. We need to take control of our food supply. Like I said we need to take control of every aspect of our lives. This means more then just sitting around and boycotting the capitalist system. We need to create system that is for the people and by the people.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

So where do you get your stuff with no industry?

[-] 1 points by rents2high (6) 12 years ago

I didn't say we need to get of industry all together. We need to get rid of the gross capitalistic industries. We the people can take control of industry and make them for the people and by the people. Not by the people for a couple fat cats.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

Yeah but no thanks. That doesn't make any sense. Where would you or I get our i-phones while poor African children have nothing?

[-] 1 points by rents2high (6) 12 years ago

We the people includes the african children. And forget about I phones. This movement should be thought of on a global scale. When I say we the people I mean we the people EVERY where.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 12 years ago

Actually we the people includes legal citizens of the United States(as per the Constitution). We don't need to help every other country

[-] 1 points by zymergy (236) 12 years ago

Okay, thank you. Could you now go further to describe the economic system that you prefer? Using your example, how would you control our food supply?

[-] 1 points by rents2high (6) 12 years ago

A combination of urban farming and large scale worker run larger scale farms. I don't know what economic system I would prefer. Maybe a mix of all?? Its really up to the people. One that encourages democracy and freedom. One that frees people from being mindless wage slaves.

[-] 1 points by zymergy (236) 12 years ago

Returning to food production: 1) would you like to be a farmer? 2) could you grow enough to feed yourself and your own family? (I could not!) 3) can worker-run large-scale farms produce efficiently? (China during its cultural revolution could not)

Yet, social and technological innovations might make it work. What innovations would you propose, and what makes you think that they would be successful?

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 12 years ago

Utopia. Free everything. I have, I give. You have, you give. Do those who are not interested in such a system have the freedom to run a business of their choice? Hiring workers, developing products and paying wages?

[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion1 (109) 12 years ago

I read your original post. You have your beliefs, that is fine, I would not take that away from you. I see how great America is, even with some problems. No other country in the world has seen a continued GROWTH across the spectrum. I dont understand, really, I dont understand such interest you have in banks. I own my own house. I got a loan and paid the monthly mortgage payment until I paid it off. I actually paid it off a little early. When I signed my name on the mortgage papers at a great interest rate I was handed the keys to the house. For nearly 30 years I never saw the bank or spoke with a person at the bank about my loan. I have followed this OWS for a while now. As I ponder, I walk out of my house to my car. Looking around at my neighbors I see house after house where they too took out a loan and were paying off their debt. Summer after summers none of us had a discussion about the "mean ole bankers." I drive to work passing hundreds if not thousands of homes. Some home very old and some very new. Decades after decades, for 236 years, people have gotten loans from small and big banks and owned their home. They would not have able to do it without a banker loaning them money. I decided the best time to purchase based on my economics, interest rates, etc, and as an adult I picked the bank and never say them again for nearly 30 years. The thought of you, (I dont mean you,) wanting to change the way it has been done successfully for 236 years is unimaginable. This system was set up long before you or I was born and has worked like no other place on earth. 30 years ago my property was in wilderness, as still a lot of wilderness very near for more GROWTH. If you walk outside your door and dont see hundreds of thousand of homes that were purchased using a bank, I have no idea where you must live. I saved for a house, I picked a house, I picked an interest rate, I picked the bank. No government MAN took me by the hand and placed me where he wanted me. I have posted before. If you dont like the system, provide an alternative. If that alternative is better people will beat down your door to access it. I think this is a great country, with flaws, but great.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 12 years ago

I've posted before about an alternative that I think could gain real traction on both sides of the aisle. Then again, I wouldn't call it so much an alternative system of governance as I would a series of policies that are fairly conservative in scope that would make our markets safer and our government more efficient; see the links below for my thoughts both on that and on the inherent moral hazard in the securitization of mortgages:



For the first link, there's a rather healthy debate underneath the original post that I invite you to check out; feel free to ask me to clarify anything you want or defend any given assertion more completely than I did in the links.

[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion1 (109) 12 years ago

We have grown for 236 years. Compare that with any other track record around the world.

[-] 1 points by rents2high (6) 12 years ago

what do you mean grown?

[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion1 (109) 12 years ago

what do you mean, mean?

[-] 1 points by rents2high (6) 12 years ago

Are you talking about economic growth? Growth as an empire? What kind of growth are you talking about?

[-] 0 points by wigger (-48) 12 years ago