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Forum Post: is war with iran next?

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 20, 2011, 3:52 p.m. EST by burningman2012 (187)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

panetta sure seems to think that within the next year they will have the bomb .

254 Comments

254 Comments


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[-] 3 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

yes, this is next project Israel assign for us with our millitary profiter

[-] 1 points by nth (21) 2 years ago

Exactly right!

[-] -2 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

you are a fool

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

As complement to you i reposted! enjoy

[-] 2 points by since1982 (25) 2 years ago

The number of Arabs including Palestinians living in the U.S., not to mention muslims and Christian Palestinians, supposedly exceeds or equals the number of Jews in North America. U.S. Political Mouth Pieces can take the side with the SMALLER population to win MORE votes, which shows that it is MONEY that wins elections in U.S., not the people: AIPAC and the New York Jews are part of the 1 percent of wealth holders in american feudal society. US is a moneyocracy dictatorship

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

number of Arabs in US just start to be effective however ,Jews came to US after War II so they complish alot over the years how ever if you ask Jew who borne in US what are you would say Isreaily first than American 2nd ..,But if you ask Arab borne in this country what are you he would say American

[-] 3 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

The country cannot afford another war... but the weapons makers need to sell and advertise their products so there is a very good chance that war will come...

Either way, Iran will still get the bomb... experts have also said that taking out their current facilities will at most set them back a couple years... Not that having a nuke will make Iran any larger of a threat than it already is... they have no capability to actually drop the nuke on anyone they might have a beef with... unless we do them the favor of going into or close enough to their country and painting a target on our backs...

I would be more concerned about Pakistan, a country which has tested nukes, delivery systems and a history of supporting (covertly and overtly) the Taliban and other such organizations...

[-] 1 points by truth2012 (43) 2 years ago

The US gov sees it a little differently. They're broke, and war is money. In their minds, they can't afford not to go to war. The set up is perfect too. They'll probably get what they want. China and Russia have both stated that they don't want WWIII, but they also stated that if the US attacks Iran or Syria, they will retaliate on the US. I think it will be the proverbial "we're f*cked!"

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

WRONG. War is not money, war is debt.

The only winners in a war are the ones holding all the debt when the war is over... I will give you three guess as to who that is...

Does not matter if youre the winner or loser, you need guns to fight... and you need money to buy guns... once all is said and done... how will the 'winner' and 'loser' pay back what they owe? Sell natural resources... sell out the citizens...

Of course one would think that war means big bucks for the US since the US produces a lot of those weapons...(>50% of arms and ammunition in the world originates here)....

But this does not mean that our govt gets them for free... guess who pays for them? You and me.... govt racks up more debt, banks live off the interest...

[-] 1 points by din365 (36) 2 years ago

but Iran has oil. that's what the states is after.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

touk@rin : I think that you may be interested in : "Justifying War with Iran", by Russ Baker ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30084.htm . pacem in terris ...

[-] 2 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Saw that just this morning incidentally... thanks for thinking of me though...

Honestly I was surprised Colin Powell was able to keep a straight face when making the presentation about Iraq back in 03 (I know I was laughing my rear off most of the time)... but I guess even he may not have been aware of the truth...

Before sending troops to Iran in order to 'free' the people where (Do they even WANT to be 'freed'?).... what about Saudi Arabia and Bahrain? They basically have the worst records for women's rights and marginalization of minority communities.... Aren't women or those minorities just as important? Or just because they are given an otherwise 'comfortable' life they are not allowed to have some of the more fundamental freedoms? Or wait a minute... where were most of those 9/11 hijackers from?

Heck at least woman can DRIVE in Iran.... OOps... I guess I forgot... The Saudis and Bahrain provide us with cheap oil and allow us to have military installations....

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

we cannot afford many government expenditures, but the government makes them anyway, because voters don't hold our politicians responsible. perhaps a nice world war would put alot of people to work, and eliminate alot of people too, thereby solving the employment issue.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I wish that I could take the above post by 'ineptcongress', as some sort of joke and attempt at humour but alas, I fear that it may well be an accurate insight into The Imperial Hive Mind !!!

The two posts further above also reflect the MSM mind-managed consensus in The 'Usurped $tates of Amnesiacs' of some kind of inevitability of War against Iran and even Pakistan. The 'Clash of Civilisation' [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations ] once just a thesis for NeoCon Lunatics ; now seems to be being propagandised, proselytised and pursued by The Ruling Elites in The U$A - because what better way to tell The 99% to 'STFU' than another WAR !!

How and why The Global Hyper-Power of The U$A-lephant wishes to feel threatened by these militarily, merely 'meerkat' nations, is {almost} beyond me !

timeo "Pax Americana" et donna ferentes ...

[-] 1 points by JimBeam (152) 2 years ago

Are you American? It shows great disrespect to not type USA. Even if you don't agree with the current economic situation, that is no reason to disrespect the name of your country.

[-] 0 points by NightShade (163) 2 years ago

This country is garbage and should crash and burn, in it's place should rise a non-central government ruled over by tribal's and warlords such as aquatint with African regions. It is the best chance for North American survival

[-] 1 points by JimBeam (152) 2 years ago

LOL....

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Stick to the (rather excellent, it has to be said!) bourbon ! I'm NOT American nor do I live there !! The Dollar Is The Defining symbol of 'America' and don't take satire and literary symbolism sooo seriously, unless of course you're one to salute "The Blood Splattered Banner of Empire" on a daily basis, in which case you will be upset rather easily so please remember NOT to mix your Bourbon with any probably rather necessary, tranquilizers !!!

dulce et decorum est pro patria mori ?

[-] 1 points by JimBeam (152) 2 years ago

Your not American, then your opinion matters not to me. :-)

[-] -3 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

iran has missiles that can reach tel aviv and many uk/us interests as will as saudi and arab interests true they cant hit the us at this time do you want to wait till they can? and yes pakistan is another likely target and even more likely for large invasion force than iran because of the need to secure a-bombs they drive around on regular mack trucks with light security (wtf are they insane). by the way with regime change maybe they stop pursuing the bomb and start pursuing modernization like the former regimes in iran did before the coup and revolution.

[-] 1 points by Freebird (158) 2 years ago

Disturbing images from Iran you rarely see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=98j0I7e5OHE

[-] 1 points by Freebird (158) 2 years ago

Go fuck yourself warmonger.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

truth hurts i know sometimes we must accept the truth even if it doesn't coincide with our beliefs.

[-] 1 points by RogerDee (411) from Montclair, NJ 2 years ago

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has solid fuel ICBM's in silos, that can reach all of Iran, and since the KSA paid 5 billion to EL Q khan, do you not think KSA has a few Pakistani nuke bombs......

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

5 billion would be cheap for the bomb.

[-] 0 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

I am saying that we need to let the UK, Saudis and Israel deal with it. They are the ones under the gun now and yet we are always the ones footing the bills and taking the collective radical Islamist flak...

That said, mating a warhead to a missile system is not as simple as loading another carton onto a pickup truck... making the bomb is fine, they will still need to conduct at least a couple years worth of testing before they can mate it to a missile with any likelihood of hitting their target.

By that time, it is a fair assumption that ABM shields will be more than capable enough to take them down..

Also, I have lost count of the number of times Iran has claimed to have made some ridiculous technological achievement (particularly in missile development) and has been proven to be spouting outright balderdash...

[-] 2 points by Algee (182) 2 years ago

There will be another war if the people let themselves be had like before. It is time for the people to make their own decisions.

[-] 2 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

According to an announcement made on Thursday, March 17, Iran recently launched a new rocket into space, carrying on top of it a space capsule. . . . The announcement was made by the Islamic Republic News Agency, the state-run news agency in Iran. The official story is that the new capsule was launched to low-Earth orbit atop a Kavoshgar-4 rocket. . . . These rockets can carry strategic nuclear payloads, and experts suspect Iran of trying to achieve this capability. But many say that the country may also be trying to build prestige and fame among both its allies and its enemies.

“They will clearly use dual-use technology for a military buildup, . . .

  • Missiles used to launch satellite could also fire warheads

  • Ahmadinejad calls on Russia and China to join them in alliance against the West

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

They also use Photoshop. Look closely at those photos. These are all fakes. Iran has no toilets.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

these images have been linked to their sources.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

yep, i am as liberal as it gets but don't be fooled it is a dangerous world.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"Yep" you and 'ZD', are so "liberal" that it'd appear on matters of 'Imperial Foreign Policy' ; you couldn't get a cigarette paper between you two "liberals" and John McCain & Joe Liebermann !! Sheeesh !!!

[-] -2 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

oh you think these people wanna play nice in the sandbox because you do. you think i like war or killing people at all? then you have no clue but if you think that jihadism is here to play nice you also have no clue, here learn something about their culture from a former muslim on al-jazera http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atphQK47dyA here learn something about islam period http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyYoAoHVOFQ please pull your head out of your ass. war is the absolute last resort i never approved of attacking iraq, i certainly don't approve troops in afghanistan now that osama bin laden is dead so i think you got me wrong but just because we made mistakes does not preclude the danger that exists inherent with even moderate islam or the dangers of totalitarian dictatorships don't be a dumb ass.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

You're walking a rocky road to "Hate City" and at this rate you may never make it back to go to "BurningMan 2012" !!

Re. "the danger that exists inherent with even moderate islam", would that make staunch US ally, Saudi Arabia (which is of course hardly "moderate" and is Iran's Primary rival, adversary and enemy !!!) pretty much a big part of the problem ?! + pls also see my replies to you below !

ad iudicium ...

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

yes saudi arabia is a huge part of the problem no doubt about it.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

So re. IRAN and Iranians : Please also try to know something about that country and those who you would have Bombed, so that your not so subtle invective at least gets a peak into alternative truths and so that LOVE may vanquish WAR Propaganda !!

As such, please attempt to engage with : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30062.htm - "Inside Iran : Rick Steves' Travel Journal ; The Most fascinating and surprising land I've ever visited." (Video) !

PACEM IN TERRIS ;-)

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

may i ask why not one islamic republic is known as a bastion of freedom?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Yes ! You may ... to someone who gives a SH!T !! Now run along, there's a good chap !!! {:-p)

[-] 0 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I'm liberal too - but I don't equate that with stupid.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

@ ZD : So do you really believe that Iran is looking to declare WAR against any other country ?

[-] 0 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I haven't followed their recent statements that closely.

I don't know what they think or how they perceive their own position in relationship to the rest of the world. The second article I pulled up indicates they are interested in forming an alliance with Russia and China, aligned against 'the west'

presumably that would include NATO - and every nation supporting current sanctions.

Are they proposing a military alliance with some sort of mechanism for reciprocity? Probably. I don't know. If they get it, or think they have got something like it - then they will most likely move ahead with their nuclear ambitions.

That was one of the statements made by Panetta - that Iran was within 12 months of nuclear capability, but that he had not seen any indication they had made a decision to move forward.

Presumably that means once they make that decision, the clock starts ticking and the U.S. will have roughly 12 months to implement a response.

And he did make it absolutely clear - we will respond.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. Iran : Some hard facts may bring some 'Light' to matters, rather than all the unpleasant 'Heat' being generated by the constant fear and loathing from The WAR mongering MSM and their 'running dogs' :

a) Iran has The Worlds 2nd Largest Liquid & 3rd Largest known 'Total' Oil Reserves : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Iran ,

b) Iran has The Worlds 2nd Largest known Gas Reserves : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_reserves_in_Iran

c) Further consider that in Feb. '08, Iran opened a Hydro-Carbon Bourse at the Kish Mercantile Exchange ( http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11613.htm and http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28646.htm ) - trading in a basket of currencies, including Euros, Roubles, Yuan & Iranian Rial BUT NOT in U$ Dollar$ & thereby challenging Reserve Currency, Dollar "HegeMoney" & the Monopoly of the existing Oil & Petroleum Bourses. Thus do 'a-c' here constitute the Real "Casus Belli" ?!

d) The same NeoCon, Neo-Colonial, Paleo-Imperial WARMONGERS who beat the drums for The Unconscionable, Illegal & Immoral WAR on Iraq (where The Only "WMD" = Words of Mass Deception !!) are now beating the Drums of War and this time Iran is in the Imperial crosshairs. Pls. Research PNAC (eg http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC etc.)

e) Mohammed Mossadegh ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh ), the Progressive and Democratically elected Iranian prime minister was overthrown in a UK-MI6 / CIA engineered coup {Operation Ajax : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax } fronted by Kermit Roosevelt Jnr. in the 1950s after which The Shah was cemented in as an American Client. Mossadegh's 'crime' had been to want to nationalise 'Anglo-Persian Oil' [now BP & re. APOC : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Persian_Oil_Company ] so that the proceeds of the sale of Iran's oil might go towards the betterment of Iran and Iranians. The coup was directed out of The US Embassy and that is what was behind the later 1979 'hostage crisis' as over zealous Iranian revolutionary student activists took it upon themselves to ensure that there was no repeat of The 50s coup.

f.) Iran was attacked ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War ) by Saddam Hussein's Iraq, which was at the time supported by all the Arab, European & North American Countries. Iran had in excess of 1 Million casualties in a 10 year war in the 1980s.

g) The Drumbeaters for WAR On Iran are in the background using The Corporate MSM to Psy-Op Propagandise ; Mind Manage ; Perception Control and to 'Manufacture Consent' for a WAR on Iran, Innocent Iranians And The 'State Controlled' and "Entirely Government Owned" Iranian Central Bank [ http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2011/12/15/senate-passes-sanctions-on-irans-central-bank/?mod=google_news_blog & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran ]!

~*~

Iranians know their history, even if the MSM indoctrinated Americans and Europeans can't quite remember what happened last month !! Iran's major crime seems to be that they plough an independent furrow to this day and for this they have paid a heavy price for not 'making nice'. 'The West' (ie The Corporate / Bankster / Military, 'elites') have shown that they despise any notion of an "Independent Iran' with all its resources Outside of their control.

My position on the bleak prospect of yet another unconscionable war, this time against Iran is clearly laid out in this post and I'm increasingly suspicious of those so easily up for another Imperial Resource Grab and Domination Exercise.

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[ps : Please also see The Film, "WHY WE FIGHT ; What are the forces that shape and propel American Militarism ?" : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8494.htm ]

[-] 0 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I do not dispute that our involvement in Iran is a stain upon our history, and our name.

Just as it is with respect to Chile, East Timor, et. al.

We should never have engaged in destabilizing national governments for the purpose of securing the property rights of American businesses in those countries.

If you were to suggest that our history of involvement in Iran may in part be responsible for shaping their national policy today, I would not argue.

I would point out, all Iran has to do to avoid serious problems is end their nuclear ambitions.

They do that, and as far as I know, sanctions come to an end.

Ahmadinejad is insane. I don't want them armed with nuclear capability.

They have stated they want to see Israel pushed into the sea.

I do not view that as a legitimate resolution to the Palestinian issue.

IF you do - well. kiss my ass.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I hope that Iranians do NOT now or nor do they EVER develop Nukes, as that seems to be The Imperial 'casus belli' but they absolutely need allies in the light of US / Israeli belligerence, bellicosity and bile !

Further, your last line was extremely unnecessary, unpleasant and unbecoming - especially as it is only predicated upon your own large, specious and tendacious [and Strawman] "IF you do" !!

Thus, I take the opportunity to remind you that your "ass" is a donkey and your 'arse' is your bottom / backside / buttocks, whilst it is you who has shown yourself to be an (...x...) !!!

Good Luck with trying to find someone to kiss it - even with mistletoe ...

Happy Hanukkah & Merry Xmas ;-)

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I don't think there is any question there are those around who would seem to advocate the very thing Ahmadinejad has.

Just look up.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

@ 'ZD' : "Iran, Another False Enemy?", by Stephen Merrill ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30111.htm & '1 2 C' in 2O|2 with !! Have a G**d 1 ! ;-)

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

Are they a false enemy?

We could examine their own verbalizations to see what their intent may be.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Will we simultaneously be analysing Imperial WAR related "Newspeak" Rhetoric and Propaganda, not to mention post WWII Iran / U$A history and relations ?!

Sometimes "Fear" and 'being frightened' is a CHOICE we have to make & The Opposite to 'Fear' of course, is LOVE.

Genuine Exhortations and humble requests for you to please read the article with an Open <3 & a Progressive's eYe ~{;-)

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

The warfare candidates in their many words on the subject betray little personal knowledge of Iranian history or proclivities.

this is often true among repelicans - as clearly demonstrated with Rumsfeld's assertions that the Iraqi people would welcome us with open arms, Bush proclamation of Job Well Done on that aircraft carrier - etc.

Repelicans are myopic idiots when it comes to understanding foreign cultures, religions, people, etc.

The main evidence cited in favor of a US military attack on Iran is the rants of the staged showman of the mullah empire, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

That staging should tell us something about those behind him. Of all of the people they could put on stage - they pick this guy. They had pro westerners vie for the office of President, and though Ahmadinejad was not the presumptive winner, and though the population - or a significant portion of it - resisted his installation to that office again, Ahmadinejad was and is clearly the candidate of choice for the king makers -

why?

Even he has never stated that Iran is willing to die as a nation just to launch one nuclear attack of its own on Israel or the United States.

They continue to deny any attempts to produce weapons from their nuclear program - but their current military posture and public statements are, aside from the nuclear qualification - just that. Statements that the Iranian government is willing to sacrifice in the name of whatever is driving them.

With an impoverished economy, a strong protest movement, no known weapons of mass destruction

They are an oil producer, the protest movement has, as far as I know, been crushed, and the WMD [nuclear] is apparently within a year of production.

and no direct capacity to deliver a nuclear missile even close to Tel Aviv,

I believe that is false - they recently launched a satellite into space.

.


.

According to an announcement made on Thursday, March 17, Iran recently launched a new rocket into space, carrying on top of it a space capsule. . . . The announcement was made by the Islamic Republic News Agency, the state-run news agency in Iran. The official story is that the new capsule was launched to low-Earth orbit atop a Kavoshgar-4 rocket. . . . These rockets can carry strategic nuclear payloads, and experts suspect Iran of trying to achieve this capability. But many say that the country may also be trying to build prestige and fame among both its allies and its enemies.

“They will clearly use dual-use technology for a military buildup, . . .

  • Missiles used to launch satellite could also fire warheads

  • Ahmadinejad calls on Russia and China to join them in alliance against the West

.


Iran seems an odd nation for the West to be so frightened of.

Fear is the wrong term. Containment is more appropriate - I doubt it will work.

Should I continue?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

WoW !!! It's a bit like talkin' to a Wall !! Also, you managed to get us "to look through a glass, darkly" by reposting your Dark, Angry and Warlike Imagery ! Cheers for that ;-(

I end by wishing you and yours (& Iranians too!) a Peaceful 2O|2 and with, "Iran Is NOT Attacking Anyone but Self-Defence Is Not OFFENCE ; Nor An 'Offence' or even "offensive" ! You will continue to believe "that which you wish to believe" and Fear "that which you wish to Fear" ;

LOVE tempered by Reason is the antidote to your Anxieties and Fears ;-)

pax, amor et lux ...

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

okay, okay, I'll read the article.

But that article isn't going to address the statements made by Ahmadinejad, nor will it address their threats to close the shipping lane, and it probably won't address the fact that it isn't just us initiating sanctions.

But I've got the article open. We'll see how long it takes to load.

[-] 0 points by BleeART5 (11) 2 years ago

Your thought process resembles a familiar canine position -a certain familiarity with your own posterior. Nobody here gives a flying flip about what you want. No one will shed a tear if you go die for your precious Isntrael -shielding Iranian missiles with your flea ridden sackobones. Kiss your own, sweetie.

[-] -2 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

really they know all about the persian empire and their traditions of science and philosophy, they all know about zoroastrianism? bullshit islam has destroyed what remained of their original culture. if you think the conflict is over their oil and not their nuclear ambitions and their direct threat to our allies in the region you know nothing. have we done some horrible things to other democratic countries sure but and there is always a but do you think that what we did during the cold war were not to keep america and our interests safe in the face of annihilation do you not remember civil defense drills do you not remember the cold war and all the complexities that it created?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Readers will note your shrill and defensive tone not to mention your de facto OCD re. "American Exceptionalism" ! IF your generalities and prejudices about Islam were to be repeated by someone substituting "Judaism for Islam", what would we call that ? Oy Vey !!

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

oh so the jihadists know about persian heritage and culture? the connection between the orthodox muslim mainstream and jihadist violence is apparent to any one with eyes. and what culture have the jews destroyed? buddhist culture, hindu culture, animist culture, christian culture, secular culture? european culture? american culture? french culture? russian culture? please your arguement is weaker than a wet paper bag but here learn what the jihadists don't want you to know http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyYoAoHVOFQ now if the muslims want to join our societies and cultures and assimilate like every one else that has come to the west fine but if they do not want to embrace our values of democracy and freedom they can all burn.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. "now if the muslims want to join our societies and cultures and assimilate like every one else that has come to the west fine but if they do not want to embrace our values of democracy and freedom they can all burn." !!!

Alas, such hateful talk once led to The Industrial Slaughter of human beings during The Shoah ~{:-(

I've answered your posts and points (above & below!!) with honesty and alacrity (shock horror !! Sounds a bit like ... !!) but I'm disengaging now because I fear that anything more that you may say ; will be beyond the pale ..,

Shalom Aleichem ; Salam Alaikhum ; Pax Vobiscum ...

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i mean every word if you want to come to the west you must assimilate otherwise stay in your homeland. the same goes for any immigrant group. if i am so wrong then why is europe having so much difficulty with multiculturalism they have tried it for a whole generation and it has failed miserably.... if you think you can come to america or europe and out breed us and then install your law and convert us all to muslims or treat us like second class citizens you will die trying.

[-] -2 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

better that we have the property rights than our ideological enemies it has been the strategy since ww2. once again yes we did some messed up things but do you think the russians or chinese did not? no one ever mentions how the soviets rolled in to the balkans and eastern europe in the decades following ww2. or how the chinese rolled into tibet. don't be ignorant people. what about the war we fought with the chinese that we call the korean war. once again better us than them. just imagine if the soviets had, had unfettered access to south american resources... just imagine if we didn't defend south korea... the industrial base china would have had don't be silly america.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Perhaps you should consider reading "The Worst Case For War with Iran" by Stephen M. Walt : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30052.htm for a 'slightly different' perspective !! fiat lux ...

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

your article is flawed we are not dealing with the russians we are dealing with jihadists wake up fool.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I live in the UK and have seen the effects of and lived with the possibility of "I.R.A Terrorism" for most of my life, even though there was much sympathy for "This Terrorism" in The U$A at the time !!!

Stop being "frightened to order" of ants in your pants, you paranoid FoooL !!

Get your head outta your (x) to watch : "INSIDE JOB", The Latest Working Link ; http://documentarystorm.com/inside-job/ as THAT'd be a Far Better use of your time !

ad iudicium ...

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i have seen inside job but wtf does that have to do with insane jihadists trying to rule the world???? you live in the UK you should know better than any american about the islamic immigrant take over of your country last i checked multiculturalism is a huge failure.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I was suggesting that your time would be better spent watching "Inside Job" but as you wish to stay on topic, then please avail yourself of :

a) http://www.iranisnottheproblem.org/about_the_movie ;

b) http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/iran-is-not-the-problem/ &

c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1lliIGCcfs (Alt. Link) !!!

Your easy switch to "islamic immigrant(s)" and "multiculturalism" and desire for WAR with Iran, clearly show you to be a prejudiced and Islamophobic WAR Whore, so the only real question that remains is ...

Cui Bono ?!

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i am not a war monger or an islamophobe but i know what the jihadists want to do and it is rule the world they come from iran sooo wtf are you prattling on about? i dont want jihadists armed with nukes i will nuke them to stop it if need be.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"i know what the jihadists want to do and it is rule the world they come from iran" ... so this in a nutshell is your reason for wishing War On Iran, is it ?!

Good Grief !! You bandy words around with so little care or understanding, that I am at a loss as what else to say to you, so I end by offering you to have the last word here > .... ... .. .

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i don't wish for war there is an easy way to avoid war drop their nuclear ambitions.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Bombing 7 nations- thats the US policy as of right now.

Why not 8?

Fuck it, lets just make it a baker's dozen..

[-] 2 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@ burningman2012............There is no good reason there should be a war with Iran... Negotiations and sanctions will bring the Iranians to a diplomatic solution. There is only one group that wants war, that's the chicken hawks in the tea party/Republican branch of the 1%.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

no man if they get the bomb there will be no negotiations up till then i am all for it but they start putting one together it wont matter. the israelis and brits will never allow that to happen ever. they are our closest allies along with canada and aus. so we will be helping it will be a joint nato mission.

[-] 2 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012.... Israel and Britain have no choice in the matter...

The War games run on an Iranian war have concluded that there would be no winner.

Just the 2nd Great Depression.

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

If the repugnant party was in power I would say yes. War would be close. If Iraq didn't go so bad Bush was already there.

Obama is playing them just right. We will see how far they will go. Not far.

[-] 1 points by LiveAndLetLive (79) from Fort Lauderdale, FL 2 years ago

yup, US troops are already being sent to Israel

http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-troops-going-to-israel.html

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Article from the Guradian (UK) about how attacking Iran' nuclear facilities is futile and will only lead to all out war...

http://www.dawn.com/2012/01/05/why-take-on-iran.html

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

it never says that stop distorting the truth to fit your agenda. iran if it seeks the bomb will pay the consequences. period.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by JimBeam (152) 2 years ago

I'm hoping that someone from inside Iran takes the wack job out before anyone else has to.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

here is to hoping.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Misleading wording in news headlines is another contributing factor in the war rhetoric. Not a week ago headlines all over the world read "Iran tests missile."

Most laymen when they see that headline will be like... "OMG! Iran has a missile which may or may not have a nuke on it!"

Only if you read the full article will you see that it was a mid range surface to air missile based on mostly antiquated Russian tech.

One would probably have better chance of bringing down a USAF fighter by releasing a flock of birds into the air and hoping enough of them get sucked into the intakes... (actually mil-spec engines are usually designed to maintain thrust even with bird strikes)

Also, when was the last time Iran actually made an AGGRESSIVE action? How could they possibly hope to touch the continental US of A?

If someone cites the war games in the Strait of Hormuz as an aggressive action... There are US carrier battle groups on round the clock alert in that region each capable of flattening most of Europe if they wanted to... I would think that also counts as aggression... What about the war games in Korea?

It was the CIA which sent a drone into the sovereign airspace of another country... Obama actually had the nerve to ask for it back without offering an apology...

Before you go off calling me a traitor and start up lynch mob... consider what the US response would have been if an Iranian drone had been 'lost' and ended up inside our borders...

Oddly enough... its the same with Pakistan... I know they are backstabbing SOB's but surely an apology is in order for attacking a military outpost and causing over 30 deaths...

Perhaps there was provocation from the Pakistanis... but unless someone proves it... our military is going to continue to appear as an arrogant warmongering bunch with nothing better to do than supporting the war profiteering contractors...

One thing I will ask all OWS supporters to remember... none of the wars we are involves in were chosen by our troops... it was the institutions controlling them that sent them to their deaths...

Most of the soldiers on the front line hate the war as much as the civilians...

Let us stop it from happening again...

[-] 1 points by JohnMarsden (47) 2 years ago

If we go to war with Iran between that, SOPA and NDAA there is no way anyone with a straight face can damn Bush anymore as an excuse for Obama's failures.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

they both are pawns of the elite.

[-] 1 points by JohnMarsden (47) 2 years ago

You won't hear an argument from me regarding that. I hope a lot of teenagers/college students grew up a little when they realized hope and change was bullshit.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i bought in wont lie but he has shown that he is an even worse puppet. as much as i hate to admit it alex jones obama deception is dead on.

[-] 1 points by anonymoux (70) 2 years ago

ratio of cvililian to non civilion deaths 20,000,000:1, all wars

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

yeah war is deadly.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What about Pakistan?

They were Osama's Bed & Breakfast country. Right?

This is why we are here this is why you are needed.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/

Share, circulate, educate, inspire.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i full anticipate strikes against pakistan and iran in the future and where ever jihadist muslims are.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Or terrorist training camps.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

yep were ever jihadist muslims are.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26862) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well what about Nigeria? They have oil too.

This is why we are here this is why you are needed.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/

Share, circulate, educate, inspire.

[-] 1 points by Windsofchange (1044) 2 years ago

If the war-mongers, war-profiteers, and oil profiteers get their way--yes. Iran is just too good of a thing for them to pass on. They will profit while they screw everyone else over.

Here check this article out. It is something to think about.

http://www.planorperish.com/?p=1516

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

yes, this is next project Israel assignment for us with our millitary profiter

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Yes as well as Yemen and Africa according to the Armed Services committee in regards to the passing of the NDAA.

"the threats posed by al Qaeda cells in Yemen and Africa underscore the evolving and continuing nature of the terrorist threat to the United States. The Conference Report ensures the United States will have the ability to meet this threat and neutralize terrorists from these groups and conduct effective interrogations."

http://armedservices.house.gov/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=23d194d7-78c9-4c57-b2d9-31bc3bb7daeb

[-] 1 points by OccupyLink (529) 2 years ago

Um. Discussion is somewhat outside the scope of OWS. Please concentrate on the banking greed issue. Thanks.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

um, american foreign policy is certainly not out side of the scope of ows.

[-] 1 points by OccupyLink (529) 2 years ago

It is not a core issue, and you know it.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Consider : That it will become "a core issue" PDQ when as a pretext and as a result of Yet Another WAR ; The 99% are told to "STFU" by The Govt. ; MSM and their 'less aware but more right-wing & bellicose' fellow citizens !! Then rampant WAR and Empire abroad, will become Very Relevant Indeed !!!

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 2 points by OccupyLink (529) 2 years ago

Sure it is important. However, we must never take out aim off the main target, greedy bank VPs and Directors.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Consider : That the Bankster's and their "greedy bank VPs and Directors' - main targets" re. IRAN, may well be :

a) Iran's Hydro-Carbon Bourse at the Kish Mercantile Exchange ( http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11613.htm and http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28646.htm ) - opened in 2008 and trading in a basket of currencies, including Euros, Roubles, Yuan & Iranian Rial BUT NOT in U$ Dollar$ & thereby challenging Reserve Currency, Dollar "HegeMoney" & the Monopoly of the existing Oil & Petroleum Bourses, & ...

b) The 'State Controlled' and "Entirely Government Owned" Iranian Central Bank [ http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2011/12/15/senate-passes-sanctions-on-irans-central-bank/?mod=google_news_blog & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran ] as well as ...

c) The possible proceeds of The Extremely Lucrative post-WAR Oil and Reconstruction Contracts that could follow any WAR and installation of any client / more pliant Iranian regime !!!

Where There Is WAR ; Banksters Are Never Going To Be Far Away ...

radix malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 1 points by OccupyLink (529) 2 years ago

Exactly. If we track the bankster's activity (crimes), then of course it definitely affects the other things that people are concerned about - like the anti-War Movement is. If we are using war crimes to track down the dirty banks, then great. However, we should not get diverted from our main task, which is to clean up Wall Street and the banks.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

dude we are not your private army i will discuss anything that i feel relevant if you don't like it start your own post. i see everything as interrelated i see the correlations between events, actions, and trends. so while you don't think this is a core issue that is great however foreign policy is a core issue for many americans don't be slow.

[-] 1 points by OccupyLink (529) 2 years ago

If you get off the issue, then it is called trolling. I may be wrong, but feel that is what you are doing. On another point, I may not be an American, but object to be called a foreigner, alien or worse by you or anyone else.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

dude did you see the post title if you don't want to talk about foreign policy go post on another thread

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

that's not exactly what he said.

You should have listened more carefully.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

what do you think all options means?

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

I shudder to contemplate

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

yeah

[-] 1 points by Anachronism (225) 2 years ago

Well the warmongering psychopaths in Tel Aviv and DC are doing what they to push Iran into a corner. I'm sure the military-industrial-security fossil-fuel terror complex is excited

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

dude you want them to have the a-bomb with the ability to put it on a rocket that can put the warhead into space and bring it back down on us??? it is on iran not us. if they continue the program they will be destroyed...

[-] 1 points by snag (-1) 2 years ago

Forget it. No more U.S. blood for IsraHELL!

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

None of you are considering the agenda of depopulation. The financial oligarchy is loosing its control over the people of the world. It wants to use Iran to trigger a world war to reduce the population to a size that they could manage, such as one billion people. That means five billion would have to be killed, and a nuclear war would be the way to do it.

To learn more about this, google "Iran WW3" or look it up at youtube.

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

yeah, but dont you want to stop this mess?

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

Yes, but the only way to stop this is not by attacking Iran, but by impeaching Obama, because he is the dangerous one who has his finger on the button now.

[-] 0 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@hymie...............That is the most idiotic statement I've heard in a long time. I recommend you go back on your meds.

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

true

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

But as you see, some people can't comprehend this, and think its idiotic. What can one do?

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

chuck1al probably growing men. he is not sure if he understand what is going on in the World. Obama the only man who can stop the war, because he is the Chief, he is the one who start the the war. People of Iran are very paranoid about current situation. Iranian leader escape to UAE referring to the disease. People are angry, thousands of them protesting one the streets, they burning down american flags, they pissed off. ahh. ahh. ahh. my english is not that poetic, but you got me anyway

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

Where are you from?

I understand why the Iranians would be paranoid. The Israeli people are also. None of the Israeli people want this war, only Netanyahu. The military and the Mossad are particularly against it, as are US officers in the military and CIA.

[-] -2 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

they got the neutron bomb.... designed for just such a situation... and there are 7 billion plus now lucky for us if it is there plan the us and europe most likely will suffer small losses compared to the rest of the world... all bunch of 3rd world and 2nd world countries will be wiped off the map or just simply starved to death most likely the plan in africa my main question is what will they do with south america they can feed themselves and they don't have any nuclear states or states that are really ideologically opposed except chavez and that is one man more than an entire country against us....

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

Remember, this would turn into a US war against Russia and China which both have substantial nuclear capacity. The US population would probably be mostly wiped out.

Some say that South America would be left over for those fortunate oligarchs who are able to hide out in their bunkers. They would base their Nazi headquarters there, in the same way that Nazis went to South America after WW2.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i think russia and china are bluffing they don't wanna be destroyed by us. the rhetoric sounds great but it is unlikely to happen for a few reasons, 1 well their citizens like the u.s. i mean really like the us so they would have very little political support to do anything but watch and complain. and 2 mutually assured destruction it is why we never fought in the first place. if the chinese and the russians want to write their death warrant they will join iran by signing treaties of support. that will never happen... it is all rhetoric... when i see a formal treaty against aggression then they will concern me until then it is all tough talk.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

The US generals say that a war against Iran would quickly spill over into Russia and China, causing death and destruction. Their citizens may feel a little different about that.

Its said that the western oligarchs want to rule the world, including Russia and China, and if they can't do that, they will destroy the world instead, while they hide in their bunkers.

I think they will keep pushing this war into Russia and China until those countries are defeated or until they respond with a nuclear attack.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

we would fair far better than russia or china in that event.... we have a much greater first strike capability and a much better response capability that either nation not to mention a defense shield.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

What defense shield do we have? Are you really thinking of winning a nuclear war? That's madness.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

we have a limited nuclear missile defense shield, it is a mad mad world.

[-] 1 points by MrMiller (128) from Sandy, UT 2 years ago

If anything, North Korea is the truest threat to us, yet you don't hear anyone talking about going in THERE, do you? In my opinion, the focus on Iran is overblown and maybe, if you think about it, merely highlights our collective prejudice towards Muslims.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I'd say the focus on Iran has more to do with the possibility of a Cuban missile crisis-type situation involving Iran and Israel. If North Korea decides that it's going to do something truly ridiculous they're enough of a loose cannon then I doubt that even China would do more than loudly complain if we collapsed them. Hell, China might even collapse them to avoid having the dude who ended the world on their border.

[-] 1 points by MrMiller (128) from Sandy, UT 2 years ago

Maybe Iran would use the missile, but it would be national suicide and the end of the world as we know it. I really truly hope they're not that stupid. I really do think that the goal of having a nuke is geopolitical respect though, but I could be wrong. Anyway, we hardly have a leg to stand on, having been the only ones to actually use nuclear weapons, so I'm sure they take that into consideration too.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@MrMiller.....The Iranians are not suicidal.

[-] 2 points by MrMiller (128) from Sandy, UT 2 years ago

Actually, I beg to differ. The cult of the suicide bombers originated there during the Iran-Iraq war and they praise anyone who commits suicide for some goal outside of his/herself. So, although I don't think they would choose to blow up Israel, they don't have a good track record so far.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

Actually, the suicide bomber cult goes back to the Assassins, an ancient Iranian cult, and their leader, the old man on the mountain.

I think they just want nuclear power though. We're going to run out of fossil fuels some day, that's for sure, and we're going to be in deep trouble if we don't have an alternative ready by then.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@ MrMiller...That was a military offensive by the Iranians against America. The revolutionary Guards planned everything down to the marine barracks. The suicide bombers who drove the vehicles where given military medals.

you can find all of this at: http://www.stratfor.com/

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

yeah man jihadists are a greater threat than soviet union ever was. who sided with the nazi????? jihadists...

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012....They where not Jihadists, it was an Iranian military operation to force the western powers out of Lebanon.

Its was run by the revolutionary guard force.

Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut

A suicide bomber in a pickup truck loaded with explosives rammed into the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. Sixty-three people were killed, including 17 Americans, eight of whom were employees of the Central Intelligence Agency, including chief Middle East analyst Robert C. Ames and station chief Kenneth Haas.

Reagan administration officials said that the attack was carried out by Hezbollah operatives, a Lebanese militant Islamic group whose anti-U.S. sentiments were sparked in part by the revolution in Iran. The Hezbollah operatives who carried out the attack on the embassy reportedly were receiving financial and logistical support from both Iran and Syria. [For more on how and why Iran and Syria were helping to direct attacks on the U.S., see FRONTLINE's interviews with Robert Oakley and Robert C. McFarlane.]

The U.S. government took no military action in response to the embassy bombing, although, according to retired Marine Lt. Col. Bill Cowan, a covert military team entered Beirut in order to gather intelligence in preparation for retaliatory strikes.

Bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut

A suicide bomber detonated a truck full of explosives at a U.S. Marine barracks located at Beirut International Airport; 241 U.S. Marines were killed and more than 100 others wounded. They were part of a contingent of 1,800 Marines that had been sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational force to help separate the warring Lebanese factions. (Twice during the early 1980s the U.S. had deployed troops to Lebanon to deal with the fall-out from the 1982 Israeli invasion. In the first deployment, Marines helped oversee the peaceful withdrawal of the PLO from Beirut. In mid-September 1982 -- after the U.S. troops had left -- Israel's Lebanese allies massacred an estimated 800 unarmed Palestinian civilians remaining in refugee camps. Following this, 1,800 Marines had been ordered back into Lebanon.)

In his September 2001 FRONTLINE interview, Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said the U.S. still lacks "actual knowledge of who did the bombing" of the Marine barracks. But it suspected Hezbollah, believed to be supported in part by Iran and Syria. Hezbollah denied its involvement.

The president assembled his national security team to devise a plan of military action. The planned target was the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations. Instead, President Reagan ordered the battleship USS New Jersey, stationed off the coast of Lebanon, to the hills near Beirut. The move was seen as largely ineffective.

Four months after the Marine barracks bombing, U.S. Marines were ordered to start pulling out of Lebanon.

CIA Station Chief William Buckley kidnapped

Buckley was the fourth person to be kidnapped by militant Islamic extremists in Lebanon. The first American hostage, American University of Beirut President David Dodge, had been kidnapped in July 1982. Eventually, 30 Westerners would be kidnapped during the 10-year-long Lebanese hostage-taking crisis (1982-1992).

Americans who were kidnapped included journalist Terry Anderson, American University of Beirut librarian Peter Kilburn, and Benjamin Weir, a Presbyterian minister. While some of the prisoners lived through captivity -- Anderson spent the longest time as a hostage, 2,454 days -- some, including Buckley, died in captivity or were killed by their kidnappers.

U.S. officials believed that the Iranian-backed Hezbollah was behind most of the kidnappings and the Reagan administration devised a covert plan. Iran was desperately running out of military supplies in its war with Iraq, but Congress had banned the sale of American arms to countries like Iran that sponsored terrorism. Reagan was advised that a bargain could be struck -- secret arms sales to Iran, hostages back to the U.S. The plan, when it was revealed to the public, was decried as a failure and anathema to the U.S. policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists.

In August 1985, the first consignment of arms to Iran was sent -- 100 anti-tank missiles provided by Israel; another 408 were sent the following month. As a result of the deal, American hostage Benjamin Weir was released from captivity; he had been imprisoned for 495 days. Only two other hostages were released as a result of the arms-for-hostages deal: in July 1986, Martin Jenco, a Catholic priest, was released; and the administrator of the American University of Beirut's medical school, David Jacobson, was released in November 1986.

Since the funds from the arms sales to Iran were secretly, and illegally, funneled to the U.S.-backed Contras fighting to overthrow the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua, the infamous episode became known as the "Iran-Contra affair."

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

dude they are jihadists. the leadership is jihadist for crying out loud they live under sharia law that in it of it self makes them jihadist.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@ burningman2012 ....Dude....Iran is a Country with an organized Army....Duh!

According to Martin Kramer the term jihadism first became common in "the Indian and Pakistani media". "At present, jihadism is used to refer to the most violent persons and movements in contemporary Islam, including al-Qaeda." The term jihadism may also have been influenced by the term "jihadist-Salafism", put into "academic circulation" by "French academics".

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

alright if you want apocalyptic "moderate muslims" with the bomb you are dumber than i thought.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@ burningman2012...What would you call Pakistan, genius.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

a target.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012....Very intelligent answer, Not.

Your so dumb you didn't know the failed country of Pakistan has numerous nuclear bombs and missile delivery systems.

Get an education before you come spouting your foolish theory's.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

even more reason to invade. before they fall in the hands of the jihadists. i am sure india would love to help.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

they are jihadists are they not???

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012 ..........NO

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

north korea is a chinese puppet state. we have fought to a stalemate before. yes they are a threat but because of the chinese control they exercise in north korea they are not the threat that iran represents... it is true that china does not have 100% control but if you know about korean/chinese relations you know that they own their ass. how ever the jihadists are insane here learn a little about islam and arabs http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL0gFIXnhiE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oVoLqjaKiw&feature=related

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

maybe if the stopped trying to kill jews. they would not be killed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq9R3EAyBpc&feature=related

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

you just made up this bootleg video don't you? No rush, find some good video, or documentary, anything, but not that crap

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

i understand your agenda. i care much less about Muslims or Jews. this video is clear evidence of Iran demilitarization. ha ha it was funny. DONT delete it, please

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

clear evidence of the militarization of gaza more like it.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Nah... I mean, yes, it is part of the plan. But Obama simply does not have the gonads.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

Maybe when Iran tests there first one it will go totally wrong and they will take care of themselves.

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

They are Persians. Their missiles will go up and come down...in the same place. Hope they get the bomb. BOOM.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Niice ! Didn't someone once say "Persians are friends of Jews" ? So much for Cyrus' descendents, eh ?

Thus, for further insights re, 'Iran and Jews', please see :

a) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA7yz2vciGk,

b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-r04SQ97_Q &

c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngttxIzXRsE .

I dare you to watch these videos ...

Happy Hanukkah ..

pax et lux .

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

"glaring differences" says it all take your propaganda shove it up your ass.

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

No more videos man. Not into videos...just facts. Happy Hanukkah to you and Merry Christmas.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. "just facts", I couldn't really have put them any better than the words spoken by the people directly involved themselves, hence the videos. Hopefully, someone will watch them !! Happy 2012 ;-)

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

Same to you, you nut. Hope all is well.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"take your propaganda shove it up your ass." !!! ipse dixit ...

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

oh you don't like the truth not very convenient to your world view ha ha ha ha ha nothing propagandish about this it is from arabic tv amazingly enough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atphQK47dyA so don't ever try to tell me anything that you clearly know nothing about you brain washed fool.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

You jump into an exchange between "Spanky" & I and then insist on getting all hot and bothered ! Tch !!

Re. your first video ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam:_What_the_West_Needs_to_Know ) : It is a well known Islamophobic propaganda piece, which even had a controversial bit part in the last US Presidential Election.

"The Chicago Tribune's reviewer, Michael Phillips, criticizes it as being a "deadly dull anti-Islam propaganda piece" ; The Washington City Paper's review, Louis Bayard, argues that "If [the directors] Davis and Daly had a little imagination, they might see that the devil they’re chasing isn’t Islam but fundamentalism, which assumes many forms.".

Which is why I replied with your own words, gave it short shrift and didn't even open your second link, which you have now resubmitted. This video is a passionate polemic by US-based psychologist of Arab ancestry, Wafa Sultan, who denounces fundamentalist Islam in a debate with an Islamic cleric on Qatar based, Al-Jazeera in February 2006 and I agree with much of it.

WTF has this got to do with Iran, Iranians or even the tens of thousands of Jews living for thousands of years in Iran (to which the videos I posted above, allude & which you regard as "propaganda") ?!

It seems therefore that you fear and hate Muslims and that seems to underpin your fear, suspicion and aggression towards Iran. I wish that you'd be man enough to at least admit it ...

Seems that you'd like to believe that "The Truth" is what you yourself believe and that I must be wrong by simply by definition of not being you !!!

Get Real "burningman" ; Soften your Heart ; Open your Mind and STOP Trolling for WAR !!

Merry Xmas ; Yuletide good wishes ; Hale & Hearty Solstice ; Happy Hanukkah and Good Luck for The New Year !

pax, amor et lux ;-)

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

no man i am well aware of what is going on i have done my own investigation into the video's claim and find that they are pretty freaking accurate. you and i both know jews are not free to worship openly in iran don't insult my intelligence the fact that they are allowed to live there means nothing how are they treated by the sharia law. are they allowed to be in the military? or on the courts? or in politics? what did she say that you did not agree with?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

It is increasingly obvious that I'm not going to say anything that is going to change your mind or get you to question your own opinion, so I end with pointing out that when you question Iranian Jews being "in politics", it seems to clearly indicate that maybe you didn't watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA7yz2vciGk , dedicated to Morris Motamed, a Jewish member of the Iranian Parliament.

fiat pax ...

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

1 member 1 is all they are allowed i didn't think it was worth mentioning

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Consider, that mathematically 1 is infinitely more than 0 !!

More seriously, please consider the following :

a) http://www.iranisnottheproblem.org/about_the_movie ;

b) http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/iran-is-not-the-problem/ &

c) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1lliIGCcfs (Alt. Link).

bella horrida bella ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Matthew Kroenig (http://www.cfr.org/experts/italy-iran-nato/matthew-kroenig/b16573 ) is a CFR WAR-Monger of The 1st Order and your choosing to post his words, speaks louder about you than any words that I ever could ever muster.

fiat pax ...

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. The Above : Nice Line but ... suppose The Iranians used the same logic ?! ad iudicium ...

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

If the Iranian govt wants war then that is what they will get. Too bad, Iranians are cool. Their govt and religious leaders are vermin. I feel sorry for Iranians. They tried an OWS but got squashed. Their struggle will not be forgotten. To the Iranian people...fight hard. Freedom is on the way.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

Why would the Iranian government want their own destruction? I just can't believe that any small country would provoke a nuclear attack from a super power.

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 2 years ago

Mutually Assured Destruction usually works as a deterrent, but we've yet to see how a culture that values martyrdom handles the prospect of it's own nuclear destruction. I'm nowhere near as confident as you are in this post, and frankly, I'd rather not find out who is right.

[-] 2 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

To be honest, I am less concerned about the one nuclear weapon that Iran might produce than the thousands of nuclear weapons that Russia and China already have, because they are the ones we will be fighting if we attack Iran.

Already US generals have warned Obama about a war with Iran triggering a global nuclear war, Russian generals have warned about it also. They are moving their missiles and antimissile systems around, and have sent a nuclear fleet to the Mediterranean.

Hu Jin Tao has put the Chinese navy on alert for a war with America. Do we really want this war?

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 2 years ago

Sure don't. But I can't get around the feeling that, if you replace the nations you mentioned with the names of European countries in the late 30's, you sound an awful lot like Neville Chamberlain. Add a silly hat and the phrase "we will have peace in our time," and the similarity becomes downright eerie.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

You think that stopping a war with Iran is like appeasing Hitler?

The US is the one that has been doing the Blitzkriegs across the Middle East for the last decade. But perhaps you think we were justified?

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 2 years ago

I think we could very easily look back one day and see the similarities. Both made it clear that they believe they are destined to rule the world, both are located in places of great strategic importance (germany in central europe, iran in the Persian gulf), both began with attempts to dominate their own region, both had historical complaints of mistreatment by the international community (in many ways valid complaints) that were used to stir up their people, both mobilized their military and munitions to prepare for war...oh, yeah, and both hate the Jews. Do you really not see similarities?

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

When did Iran say that it wants to rule the world? Do you have a link for that? Why do you think Iran is trying to militarily dominate the region? Both Israel and Pakistan already have nuclear weapons.

Iranians don't hate all Jews, only the aggressive Zionists. Look at this video of Ahmadinejad with his Jewish buddies:

Ahmadinejad Greeted by Anti-Zionist Jews in New York http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_XAeqtY7Sk

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 2 years ago

Try this one from a speech in February: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/11/AR2011021106817.html

Sorry, not impressed by Ahmadinejad and his Jewish friends. Smacks too much of " some of my best friends are Jewish". I'd be more impressed if he granted complete civil rights in Iran to Jews and Christians. Not holding my breath on that one.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

I think you'd have to admit that Christian and Muslim Palestinians in Israel don't have complete civil rights either, but we are not planning on bombing Israel.

I think you must have religious discrimination throughout the middle east, why should Iran take all the blame?

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

actually if they are israeli citizens they have complete civil rights there is a misconception that all arabs live in gaza and the westbank it is simply not true. you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

That was mostly about wanting western influence out of the middle east. What's wrong with that? We have our Monroe doctrine as well. That brief mention of world governance seems more religiously oriented than militarily.

What rights are Christians and Jews lacking in Iran?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

you are joking right... By law and practice, religious minorities are not allowed to be elected to a representative body or to hold senior government or military positions...Although the Constitution states that "the investigation of individuals’ beliefs is forbidden" and that "no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief," the adherents of religions not specifically protected under the Constitution do not enjoy freedom of activity. The legal system discriminates against religious minorities. if you want to know the various way jihadists destroy people and culture simply check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_system_of_Iran#Criminal_Law

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

and zoroastrians the original monotheistic religion of persia.. hell the 3 wise men were zoroastrian.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

you are slow, you think that jews accept these people as representing them .ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. you should find out more about this tiny tiny tiny sect of judaism. the jihadists they fucking hate jews dont be slow.

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 2 years ago

Didn't mean to dodge your second question. How we feel about recent American treatment of the middle east is really beside the point in terms of what we do next. You can accept that American policy is catastrophic, and still think it's a bad idea to allow Iran to become more powerful, in the same way that it's possible to grant validity to German complaints about mistreatment at the end of WWI, and still recognize that France and England's compliance in the 30s led to an even greater disaster. The idea that "we need to cut them some slack because we've been bad to them" has had massive consequences in the past, and we can't afford to be blind to that possibility in the future.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

So what do you want to do, just bomb them? Aren't you concerned about Chinese and Russian retaliation. The US Chiefs of Staff are.

[-] 1 points by Confusedoldguy (260) 2 years ago

Yes, I am very concerned about that, and the Chiefs of staff are right to be concerned. That's their job. I don't want to send the stealth bombers over there tomorrow, but neither do I want to stand by and watch while a nation that values martyrdom develops nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. Our children could ask us some very tough questions one day, the same ones that French kids asked their parents after WWII (I lived there for ten years, which is why i keep going there in my discussion). I don't have an easy answer, but I don't think it's wise to take force off the table.

Like I said above, we're not likely to change each others minds. Thanks for an exchange that remained issues-oriented and civil. That's getting kinda rare on these pages, but it's my second one today, so maybe things are looking up. :-)

[-] 2 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

Ok, its been nice talking with you as well. I've had the same problem as you with some people here, but have met some very civil people as well.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

nope they are bluffing... what are they gonna do use the bomb please... and they sure as shit don't want a conventional war... our navy and airforce will destroy them if they tried anything sooo it is what is called bluffing... the russian people love america as do the chinese are you kidding these people are not jihadist muslims and their people hate jihadists they just don't want anyone turning off their flow of iranian oil... and you act like we don't have nato and israel and pretty much the whole westernized world on our side when it really comes down to it (remember 9-11) that said we all share one major thing in common, ideology. you think people who live in westernized nations want to go back to totalitarianism or fascism or want to live in a jihadist state...... no man no fucking way the russian people are westernized there leadership is just obsessed with projecting power china well who the fuck knows what their leadership is thinking i think they have their own empire but that is just me the people on the other hand love the west they would love to have freedom. they have zero political support to attack either america or any ally of ours in response to our actions in iran. so what you have is posturing and them saying they want input in global events. basically russia wants to reassert their former standing as a global superpower and have power and sway over the entire former ussr at least economically and china would like to join us both as world powers.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

The way that a nuclear war would get started is that either Israel or the US would go in and make first use of a nuclear weapon. Why would we do that? You may wonder. Wouldn't it be suicidal to initiate a nuclear war?

The argument is that the western financial oligarchs are loosing it. They are watching their financial empire disintegrate before their eyes. When they see the growing nations of Asia, they look on with bitterness and resentment.

They think that the only thing they can do to stay on top is to use the US nuclear arsenal to initiate a war to blow up the world. Then, they'll hide in their bunkers, and come out and claim what's left once its all over.

They want to kill off 90% of the Americans just as much as they want to kill Russians and Chinese. In fact, as the most powerful nation, America is the biggest enemy of the globalist financial empire.

I know this must sound like the mother of all conspiracy theories, but I started studying about the economic crisis years before it happened and tried warning people about it. They told me I was crazy. Then what happened? We had a economic crisis.

Now, in this case, there is nothing that I hope more than that you turn out to be right, and I turn out to be wrong.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

the kind of nuclear devices that would be implemented would be extremely low yeild way lower that you think. we are not talking an armageddon type situation...even if the bomb is used i dont believe we would do that with out twisting the arms of the chinese and russians to allowing it to happen. none of this would even be being discussed if we hadnt drained so much treasure the last 10 years in needless war in iraq we would do it conventionally but iran is not iraq.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

As I said, there is nothing more that I hope than that you are right, but that's what I said to people who thought we weren't going to have a financial crisis. To be honest, the thought of using even limited nuclear weapons is madness to me.

Unfortunately, I think that the people who led us into the last series of wars, and into this one, are just as eager to kill Americans as they are to kill Russians and Chinese.

These people are true globalists, in that they have no loyalty even to their "own" countries. Their loyalty is only to money and power, and they pursue those with unlimited ruthlessness.

They see movements like OWS and other protest movements, along with the growing Asian economies, and they start realizing their time is up. So, in this sense, even we are there enemies and they want to wipe us out.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

no i dont think world war is likely regardless of how we deal with iran

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

nwo is pure evil

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

So, are you starting to become concerned about a war with Iran escalating to a world war?

I'm hoping that Ron Paul's showing can stop this from happening.

[-] 0 points by Spankysmojo (849) 2 years ago

They are so fucking stupid that they will self destruct. They aren't small, England = 51 Million; Iran 73 Million,btw.

[-] 1 points by hymie (391) 2 years ago

The question is, are we so stupid that we want to self destruct as well. US generals have told Obama to warn Israel not to attack Iran under any circumstances, because it could provoke World War 3 with Russia and China.

Both of these nuclear superpowers have said they would defend Iran if it is attacked. The Russians have sent a nuclear fleet into the Mediterranean, and Hu Jin Tao has put the Chinese navy on alert for a war with the US.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

nato would crush them all then.... russians talk tough so do the chinese... but it is all a bluff and they know it. they will be crushed defending a jihadist muslim nation i don't think so. china and russia just want the oil for themselves they could give two shits about the people the chinese hate muslims and so do the russians. tough talk and taking military action against the greatest military power the world has ever seen are two different things. nato will crush any opponent.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

yeah i have nothing against persians i find their culture fascinating but the revolution ruined that country... those people are so western it is not even funny way more western than say turkey a very similar nation in that it has much european influence and some common historical heritage. zoroastrian religion is very interesting as well which is the true religion of persia not islam....

[-] 0 points by CriticalThinker (140) 2 years ago

yep. And, you have to have troops to fight, hence the withdrawal in preparation.

Occupy Wall Street Occupy Main Street Occupy Everywhere And we'll never give it back!

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

well us/uk and israel are never going to allow these people to have the bomb... russia and china seem to back iran this could spin out of control quickly immersing us in ww3.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012 .....The only way that could happen is if the Neocons regain power. This is unlikely I hope. If the Idiots that support the tea party/ republicans have their uniformed way the 2nd great depression will follow an attack on Iran.

Anyone with a little knowledge of warfare and the area contested knows its a loosing proposition.

But the ignorant rednecks in the red states keeping voting against their own self interests to elect these fools.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

panetta who obama hand picked to run dod has said that all options are on the table (wow that means nuclear, chemical, biological weapons have not been taken off) they know the technical limitations of a ground war in iran at this time with a volunteer force. they may choose to use small yield nukes or neutron bombs to incapacitate the regime and destroy nuke program. and then use special ops and cia to take down the rest of the regime. actually it could work so long as russia and china are on board... if not the a conventional bombing campaign, followed by a large invasion force, followed by a quick with drawl and switch over to special ops cia involvement unlike iraq, iran is all persian and they have a lengthy history as a nation and as a people so the chances of it spinning off into sectarian violence is actually really small compared to afghanistan or iraq who have long histories of clan rivalry. the challenge is to fight the government with out fighting the people...

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012 ....Your displaying your lack of knowledge off war games that have been run on an Iranian conflict, I suggest you search out this knowledge so you will have a informed opinion of the consequences of the actions you described.

None of these options would even be considered let alone used.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i will do this, but the outcome can be better than what you have described. however the reinstitution of a draft could solve the man power problems... and there are other actions we can take esp if congress declares war...

[-] 0 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012..What would be the grounds for Congress to declare war on Iran?

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

are you serious?

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012..............Yes

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

as long as our objectives are to take out their nukes and or/leadership we don't need to occupy the territory.

[-] -2 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

we don't need any grounds. the constitution does not mention grounds for war.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012...............If you are serious, your a complete idiot and they are rare, so you should be proud.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

just stating a fact. not that i would attack them. only if they continue on their course of nuclear armament.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@ burningman2012....Huh, what facts?

Are you saying because the Constitution doesn't specifically say "Do not sneak attack any Country", That it is alright by America to do so!, Like "Pearl Harbor", you know, like, duh, the Second World War.

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i am saying it is legal. what do you think the world is butterflies and rainbows???

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@burningman2012....Its considered a war crime and its called.."committing a War of Aggression", you'd better go back to collecting butterfly's.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Re. WAR, you say "we don't need any grounds ..." and I sigh wearily ;-(

[-] 0 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i dont think any country is in a position to dictate or enforce any action on the usa.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

i like you ya never say anything just post the links everytime.....

[-] -1 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

You have less than a year to become a truly warrior. And you need to prioritize this issues: peace and justice OR law and order

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@timir...WTF does that mean?

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

peace and justice - you are protester. law and order - you are UN soldier

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@timir....What on earth are you trying to say, just spit it out.

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@timir...I recommend you go back on your Meds.

[-] 0 points by timir (183) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

who the fuck are you to recommend everybody take the MEDS??? What? Don't you have nothing else to say? take my apologies if i didn't get your girls logic

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@timir...In your posts you are not being realistic and do not appear to have a firm grasp on reality.

[-] -1 points by burningman2012 (187) 2 years ago

one year and one day to become a philosopher king... better hurry.