Forum Post: Is Occupy losing it's influence?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 26, 2011, 11:14 a.m. EST by roloff
(244)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I noticed CNN.com did not have any articles about OWS. Is the movement disappearing?
Who cares about CNN anyway. I stopped watching all the M$M (Maid $tream Media) since long time ago including CNN which feed us a lot of shit day in and day out. I'm totally tired of American media talking heads. BBC, TV5MONDE and other European channels even Asain channels give more world news than USA media. Pathetic.
Seems to me that we the people lost influence a long time ago and that is why OWS is happening. I wouldn't go by what corporate news shows or doesn't show.
I have great faith in the very creative people who have found numerous ways to let the powers that be know that we exist and do not like what is happening.
It may not always mean occupying a physical place. The news corps may be silent for a while, but the people can and will protest in many and varied ways.
Whether OWS itself disappears or not is really irrelevant. The brand is not important, never has been. The root causes that propelled people to take to the streets will continue to exist, and as long as they do, they'll propel people into the streets. Since these conditions are exacerbated with every passing day, these events will only swell with time (and weather, of course). They may call themselves OWS, or they may use some other name - the brand is irrelevant.
It lost influence when they displayed their movement in a very anti-american manner, and lacked the respect of abiding by simple laws. They attempt to demonize the police, and tack on the burdens the working class already have. OWS please just go away.
OWS has just begun!
In my opinion, OWS is losing their influence because they have been very disorganized. There is also a lot of hostility coming from insiders in the group. I'm not sure, who is behind OWS and that scares me. Are they against capitalism? They got the worlds attention and then lost it because they didn't have a clear message.
I am now going to focus my attention on the 99 Declaration. Go read it on line and sign it. I think this is the best way, to save our country!
The word organize comes from the word order. Anarchies have no order because they have no hierarchy.
This is one of the goals of anarchic structure. Having no leaders makes it very hard to pin them down. It also serves to minimize their chance of being co-opted by other movements with other ideologies. There is no leader which can be corrupted. There are no high positions of influence which can be infiltrated.
The 99 declaration is good, but there are too many demands on it. It needs to be more focused. I would strive only to remove money from politics. Just one goal most everybody agrees on. If this happens, a lot of other problems will solve themselves.
"Having no leaders makes it very hard to pin them down. It also serves to minimize their chance of being co-opted by other movements with other ideologies. There is no leader which can be corrupted. There are no high positions of influence which can be infiltrated."
Truer words were never spoken. OWS idealists are no longer running things.
True words were never spoken. "OWS idealists are no longer running things". They never were. OWS is leaderless, and always has been. That is the true power of OWS.
OWS leadership has been infiltrated and co-opted. I say that after taking a close look over the past 4 days. A perfect example is the OWS money being in control of 3 people. No one has seen so much as a bank statement. Is there $2 million there. Or $300? Who is funding OWS? Where is the money going. No one except the 3 (who are the only ones with check-writing privileges) knows. If you hold the purse strings, you are the leader / ruler. You call the shots.
Really. Most Occupy people use their own money.
You may be right about too many issues in the 99 Declaration. I just don't know yet?
The more the issues, the less the support.
Yes. And the issues are becoming less and less related to governmental reform.
Could be true.....But when I read it, I agreed with everything on there. It is pretty straight forward.
But in order to get more support we must find something that everyone can support. Taking money out of politics is hard to argue with. And if people have other issues they will be easier to address when the people have control of the political process again. It is a first step that can get broad support and people will rally around. With each added issue you will loss some people if we keep it to the one most important issue we will get the most support and may actually get some done.
There seems to be two ends of this spectrum so i think delegates to the National General Assembly need to keep the list short... and SWEET ; )
please read my reply to Glaucon above
Judging from the response of the whitehouse petition not many are buying in. And no matter how good the list is if it doesn't get support it's going nowhere. I think OWS is at a crossroads it either gets more support now or it becomes a footnote in history.
agreed, likely the latter. I learned a lot, met interesting people, polished some skills. Shame though
I'm starting to agree with you. I think you should suggest this directly to the 99Declaration. I also want to get voting machines or paper ballots that can not be compromised. If the election can be stolen, it doesn't matter if you get big money out.
Yes. Unfortunately OWS has been infiltrated by people determined to make things as complicated as possible -- many issues = a blured message. They have been successful.
I agree. However I think there is still a chance to take advantage of the momentum. Even if it simply and offshoot of OWS. I have seen this message in a lot of places. How can we get all the people who hold this view together?
The future of the movement depends upon the supporters understanding that it has been infiltrated and that the OWS movement is being intentionally destroyed from the top. This will be very hard to do. There is a level of comraderie that has grown (and that is strongly fostered by the infiltrators). For people to see the truth, will require letting go of the comraderie and rebuilding it and the trust.
The fact that the leaders claim there are no leaders, makes it twice as hard to point fingers at anyone. Couple that with secret code names -- makes identifying the perps all the more difficult.
A single simple message may help if it becomes strong enough it's hard to co-opt. It's very hard in a forum like this to ever know who your dealing with. So it's the message which must carry the truth and be the leader.
A charismatic leader with a simple message like "Take the corporate dollars out of the electoral process". Easy to understand.
Oh, this forum is filled with spies. As are most open forums. The US Government has virtually unlimited tax payer dollars to spend spying on the American people in the name of "keeping Americans safe".
It's a statement of fact. A person signing a document such as this must agree to every point; they won't sign if they only agree with some points. Every time you add a point, you risk losing more people who don't agree with it. This is why politicians are very vague about their platforms before elections. The more precise they get, the more supporters they lose.
I haven't looked at the whitehouse petition but as for the list of grievances in the Declaration, it is a suggested list. It is:
in essence a List of Grievances although some may differentiate 'grievances' and 'demands' This should be settled. As you can already see, everybody has something to say about the items on the list. theghostofthomassjefferson says there can only be one thing on the list (money out of politics) so as to not alienate Americans and success would lead to subsequent successes, while gawdoftruth says the list must contain everything in extreme detail in order to be inclusive and anything less would be an insult to our intelligence. To both of them I say 1) there must be a List Of Grievances that will satisfy the definition as intended in the 1st Amendment and 2) The final draft of the list can only be approved at the National General Assembly by the delegates sent from each congressional district elected to represent the district.
I agree 100% with theghostofthomassjefferson, and disagree 100% with gawdoftruth.
Yes. And the authors are well aware of this. That is the idea.
And even worse is that a lot of the OWS supporters are spending hours and hours on the creation of these kinds of documents believing they are working on the OWS cause, when in reality, they have been co-opted. Not only are they not working for the OWS cause, they are working against it.
OWS wants a revolution, they'll never make demands or propose a list of grievances. This would have to be done by another group.
Yes they will make demands. And it will be a long convoluted document which will make them look like idiots. You must go into the NYCGA forum -- it is on this website and see how busy the intellects are on creating these documents. It is sad. They have no idea they are working with the US Government to bring down OWS.
I agree than another group will have to grow, form or step forward --- once the OWS supporters realize that the OWS movement has turned into a circus. I look forward to that. That (hopefully) will be the next phase.
Thanks for the tip. I'll check out the NYCGA website.
It is this same website. You just click on NYCGA on the top of this page.-- two buttons to the left of "donate".
The site is divided into working groups most of which are bullshit like the knitters. There are others though like Finance, Movement Building, Demands and so on.
It's not the same website as this one. They are on different servers and the domains are owned by different people/companies. You can check this information by using WHOIS.
Well, you can link to it here. There is no link to come back from there though.
Well, you make a very good point. Better something, then nothing.
please consider my reply to Glaucon directly above
remember it's a suggested list of grievances. It's up to the delegates at the NGA to draft the final list
OK, you see I don't know enough about the details.
here's the latest update i have: http://occupywallst.org/forum/update-on-the-99-declaration-and-the-national-gene/
OWS has been infiltrated by the US Government. Those now in control of OWS work very hard to create disorganization and a blurred message. (An example is the anti-fur protest in front of Macy's where OWS joined with animal rights activists. Nothing wrong with animal rights, but he, we are voting for representation here.)
Because the OWS claims to be leadership, there are no leaders to point the finger at.
I know they have been infiltrated by some group, I've been trying to figure out who? You may very well be right. Some people think it's Anarchists. I just know, I don't like the vibe of the insiders.
I believe that the government (backed by the 1% and unlimited expertise backed by unlimited tax dollars) has infiltrated the movement at the top ranks. This level of honest back and forth that you and I are having here, does not exist in the NYCGA forum.
And the more I look into the organization of OWS, the more I see that it is being run along the same lines as our current government whereby a few at the top of the OWS chain are making all the decisions.
One of these decisions included a proposal by Maria Dayton with high level US Dept. of State connections. (She was introduced by OWS big wig Kobi Skolnick.) Her proposal was that 20 OWS delegates be sent to Egypt to monitor elections. This created an uproar within OWS with many opposed to the trip because they did not want to spend the $29,000 allocated by the General Assembly for it. And although Maria Dayton insisted the Egyptian protest groups had invited OWS to monitor elections, the Egyptian protest actually groups begged the Americans not to come -- that although elections may be fair, the government they would vote in was not going to be -- that it would be another US Government puppet dictator government and that OWS presence would lend legitimacy to the elections. No matter. Those in charge of the OWS Movement Building group insisted on the trip going forward. It was only stopped after Maria Dayton's US Government connections were revealed. Despite this, those at the top of the OWS leaderhip have closed ranks. They do not want to investigate how it is that Maria Dayton infiltrated the ranks and who else in the OWS ranks are US Government infiltrators. That is because they all are.
That's very interesting.......I think you're right. I'm starting to believe that the government, has infiltrated the movement, at the top ranks, as well.
Infiltration would be so simple. It would be foolish for them not to do it. This leading definitely do not have the OWS ideals.
Have you been into the NYCGA forum? It is very closed. No one has ever seen the financial books. Do they really have all that money? If so, what are they spending it on? No one knows. There is no transparency at all.
I went down to my local occupySB ,yesterday. The crowd has dwindled to a few. Yet, I noticed the same insiders were there, who have been there all along. The same people who would "monitor" (run) the G.A. meetings.These people do not look like, nor have the same energy of the citizens I have marched with before. I remember that is what struck me at the first G.A, that I attended, and I have been somewhat suspicious of them ever since. One of the guys said that he had never even been on this site. I find that hard to believe. Who would give that much time to a movement, and he is there a good portion of the time, and not at least check out the site of where the OWS originated from?
No, I have no doubt in my mind that they either infiltrated (U.S. Government) or they started OWS in the first place. Why so much solidarity with other world movements? We have not had dictators running us for decades. Their issues are not our issues.
Also, who would set up an organization with no clear leaders and no clear message, unless they wanted it to fail?
I agree. Are you aware of the OWS Egypt trip?
Someone else told me about the Egypt trip and the $29,000 from donations to OWS that was allocated for it.
What do you think of the 99declaration, by the group that split off from OWS? Would you support this group?
Yes ever since OWS got violent (ie: murders, rapes, drugs, numerous arrest) etc. America wants you ignorantFucks gone
American M$M = Unfair & Unbalanced = Money Business = News??!! It's time to boycott the media totally!
I'd say by all the attention it is getting at least judging from the number of trolls working it, they must be getting really worried about its growing influence.
OWS never had any influence to lose.
You want that-be, on the OWS written in the press? To do this, need: to create a party, develop a program, to nominate a candidate for election, and so on. If all this is done, the press, may indeed be interested in OWS. Today, OWS for them - nothing. This is not malice on my part. I already wrote about press, and about good image of current government. With bitterness and regret.
I am having an OWS party in my pants tonight in my tent whose down?
Are you an aunt, or uncle?
OWS had influence?
You're here, aren't you?
oh, Hello Edgewaters. I see I have a follower and it's not even twitter
Maybe you should check which account you're logged in to ... other than that I can only say we both happen to be online at the same time, and probably both using the recent post function. I think you once harped on about "don't flatter yourself", struck me as projecting at the time ... confirmed!
OWS represents one protest out of many. It is the main one that everyone is watching for sure. The Occupy movement is global, with big protests in almost every world city. If one site gets weakened, another 5 might get stronger. The weak site can of course come back again with a vengence.
In Edinburgh, for example, we have had some ups and downs. It is all up at the moment. We have a central spot parked about 200 metres from the Royal Bank of Scotland's World HQ!! There are about 50 tents there, and a central marquee. We have great relations with the local police, and will stay on indefinitely.
City hall has also officially backed the Occupy movement, both ours and every single protest internationally.
http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/news/28067-occupy-edinburgh-gains-backing-from-edinburgh-council/
Expect this to happen all over the world. Church leaders resonate strongly with the movement. They can see that this is true goodness in action. It represents core values of, for example, the Muslim and Christian religions, and all other religions that I know of too. The Occupy Edinburgh group makes the disenfranchised and homeless people welcome, and supplies free and excellent meals to all. It is like the fight of pure goodness vs pure evil to them. No one likes the sheer selfishness of many bank employees, mainly executives, and the hurt they do to families, including little children.
Help and donations are flooding in from local business people and charities, etc. Nearly everyone wants us to succeed. The concept of a leaderless, non political group that does kind and empathetic work lifts the spirits of people. It is really nice.
Next time I run into a bank teller I am going to punch them in the nose for their evilness, those motherfuckers.
No one is advising you punch anyone. Most of the evil employees are at executive level, which tellers are not.
At what level is the cutoff, should I punch the bank tellers manager, or should I just know that these evil bankers are not real people you can punch just figments of the imagination that are always above the guy that is actually real? Is it really Satan? How do you punch satan in the nose? Where is that fuckin exorcist bitch when you need to kick some ass?
Of course not. People like managers, senior managers, area managers, national managers, general managers and chief managers are only managers. They are not the executives at the top doing the bad stuff. People such as assistant directors, or going right to the top, vice presidents are the ones who get the huge bonuses and make the big decisions. In a bank typically, an assistant director has about 2 general managers and 4 chief managers working under him. The assistant director reports to director, who reports to a VP usually in charge of a region, say, Asia Pacific. The VP will then report to another VP in the US. The really important executives are the VPs and above. They can fire anyone at will at do, just for fun.
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I believe that it is losing steam due to infiltration by the US Government -- leadership of OWS is now all US Government. These leaders are doing all they can to sabotage the movement including making the OWS message as unclear as possible by connecting OWS to all sorts of unrelated and controversial issues..
An example is the OWS anti-fur protest in front of Macy's in NYCOWS should be trying to wrest control of the political system to allow for representation of the majority. Once we have gained control, the system will work to determine whether or not fur should be sold. By protesting fur, the message is that OWS doesn't care what any individuals opinion is -- fur is always wrong 100% of the time. That is not democratic.
(I am totally anti-fur, btw.)
You are correct. Agents probably have hidden microphones in our steering wheels, as camera-mounted remote control cars follow our every move. I hear the agents are riding ten speeds disguised as Mormons.
How do we stop this? We cannot let the agents destroy civilization and force us into concentration camps.
I don't know about hidden microphones, but the Supreme Court is in the process of deciding whether or not the Justice Department can put tiny postage stamp sized GPS devices on license plates WITHOUT a warrant. This means tracking of people 24/7 and storing the data. http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/supreme-court-reviews-warrantless-gps-tracking.php
I live in NYC and there are thousands of surveillance cameras everywhere. With face recognition technology, they are able to create lists of every one at a protest or march or park.
The Supreme Court is deciding a case right now.
Damn those CIA operatives who spend their time trying to disrupt OWS. This sounds like Billy Jack meets the Bourne Identity.
It would be fun to go undercover at Zuccotti Park. The chance of detection or of violence would be low so there would be no worries there. And there are many undercover roles to choose from including camper, Genaral Assembly big wig, or just one of those people who quietly and unobtrusively hang out.
do you actually think OWS every had any influence?
It got you here.
no what got me here were members of OWS sleeping in a park like animals near my apartment downtown waking up my newborn and my wife.
Absolutely. Americans in the street protesting? How embarrassing is that for politicians. Imagine being Secretary of State Hillary Clinton? Can she even hold her head up when she travels overseas today.
Hilary Clinton? really? That bitch has no shame, she will walk around and bullshit anyone anywhere.
the rest of the world knows about the criminal charges brought against her also, that didn't stop her from taking the job.
Well her job as Secretary of State involves sub-verting and co-opting grassroots democratic movements overseas for the benefit of the 1% Americans. It becomes more difficult if there are protesters right here in America. Willingness to engage in criminal activity is a plus in the American political field. It is not really possible to succeed in politics otherwise.
Yes, the fade out started when most camps were taken away. That left the movement without the crucial daily visibility is requires. The other problem is that they have only one tactic: direct action. This becomes boring after awhile. Americans are fed on fast food, and their attention span is very short. If there's not something new, people get bored and look the other way.
If Occupy wants to survive, it has to cut the cords with its influences: Arab Spring protests, Spanish protests, etc... Then create an imagery and strategy of its own by Americans and for Americans; custom built for the socio-political-economic reality of America. Global movements start locally. If local groups are not in tune with their surroundings, then they don't work on the bigger global scale.
The Guy Fawkes Starbucks Cups was perhaps the fatal blow. They symbolize the turn around. First a mascot of the 99%, now a commodity that the 1% sell to the 99% to make more money. They re-appropriated Guy Fawkes and everything the movement represents comes with that.
Agree with all of the above, but you're reading way too much into the so-called "Guy Fawkes" cups. Sorry, but that's really just a coincidence.
The Starbucks "Red Cups" are a big deal and involve a lot of time for design and production. Given that the cups are in the stores by the first week in November, as well as the same images appearing in other media like commercials and iPhone apps, just counting back for design time, proofing, approvals, actual production and distribution, etc., even with a very optimistic schedule you'll be back well past the start of OWS. Based on other similar things that I've been involved with, I'd guess that they probably start work on all of that no later than in the Summer and probably earlier. More than the nutcracker looking like the Fawkes mask, it's more that the mask happens to look like a lot of nutcrackers.
You're absolutely right. Thanks for bringing out the obvious. Your argument absolutely crushes the belief I previously exposed above.
The connection to the Arab Spring was most likely made by the US Government who is known to subvert and co-opt democratic movements oversees to benefit the American 1% elite. OWS was infiltrated by Maria Dalton of the US Department of State who organized an OWS Egypt trip -- 20 OWS Delegates were slated to go to Egypt to monitor elections. Their real purpose was to lend legitimacy to another puppet Government in Egypt.
I don't think so. Occupy has been influence by the Arab Spring protests from the start and continues to be to this day. This very site gets a major hard on every time it published news about Egypt, which is every couple of days lately. Now that the camps have closed up in America and the protest has somewhat vanished on this side of the ocean, Occupy's obsessed with finding something to do so they want to be in solidarity with the Egyptians by occupying the Egyptian consulates, and they want to be in solidarity with the Chinese workers on strike. All the while, we don't really know what they are doing for America. The energy is lost at the moment.
Glaucon, this site is US Government run. Anything they want to focus on gets attention. Right now they want OWS to promote the sham elections in Egypt.
Have you been inside the NYCGA forum yet? It is nothing like out here. Very little discussion back and forth. Each aspect of OWS from the Finance working group to the Movement Building working group is controlled by an elite group. This small group decides where protests will take place and how the protesters will behave at the protests. If you do something ouside of what they want you to do, the OWS people pop up and surround you and try to shut you down.
The protests have gotten really stupid too -- obscure protests like anti-fur to blur the OWS message.
Voting takes place at these General Assembly meetings that are totally undemocratic. To vote, one must be physically present 4 times a week at 7 pm in downtown Manhattan. So you get a small group of voters who vote publicly by waving their hands. If the rulers want to sway a vote, they just make a call and boom -- 50 insiders pop up to wave their hands on cue.
Glaucon, this site is US Government run. Anything they want to focus on gets attention. Right now they want OWS to promote the sham elections in Egypt.
Have you been inside the NYCGA forum yet? It is nothing like out here. Very little discussion back and forth. Each aspect of OWS from the Finance working group to the Movement Building working group is controlled by an elite group. This small group decides where protests will take place and how the protesters will behave at the protests. If you do something ouside of what they want you to do, the OWS people pop up and surround you and try to shut you down.
The protests have gotten really stupid too -- obscure protests like anti-fur to blur the OWS message.
Voting takes place at these General Assembly meetings that are totally undemocratic. To vote, one must be physically present 4 times a week at 7 pm in downtown Manhattan. So you get a small group of voters who vote publicly by waving their hands. If the rulers want to sway a vote, they just make a call and boom -- 50 insiders pop up to wave their hands on cue.
This site is not government run. jart is the programmer and she an anarchist from New-York. The domain name of this site is owned by AdBusters and was bought June 15th, one day after they made the first call for the Occupy protests. Where do you get your false information?
I know Occupy is run by a small group. I posted about that many times. I even linked to anarchists discussing various ways to co-opt the direct democracy system they are using.
Those in leadership roles do not support any of the OWS ideals. They believe in absolute control by a small minority. The money is being spent as these OWS elites see fit. No one has seen so much as a single receipt or bank statement. They control all the protests -- and these protests are getting very silly (like the anti-fur protest at Macy's )-- intentionally to make OWS look foolish.
The US Government (1%) would be foolish not to infiltrate. It is the easiest thing to do and they have unlimited expertise and funds to do so.
Maria Dayton, an infiltrator, was planning a trip for 20 OWS delegates to "monitor" Egyptian elections. $29,000 allegedly was taken out of the OWS Finances for this trip despite strong objections by most OWS people. A tight group insisted on going, despite objections from the Egyptians. Maria Dayton's connections to the US Dept of State and US Goverment supported groups (through NED grants) were discovered and the trip was shelved.
I know the group is run by a few people. Iv'e been saying this since two weeks ago.
A few people who are from the US Government. Why wouldn't they be? This movement is a threat to them. It is in their best interest to put themselves into leadership roles -- this is exactly what the US does overseas. They specialize in it.
If I was the US Government, I would have thousands of spies in the field. Once the OWS supporters begin to realize that they have absolutely no voice within the OWS movement and no say in how funds are spent -- they will still be disgruntled and will go elsewhere -- the Government will want to infiltrate and control and alternative groups.
There are many, many unhappy OWS supporters out there. I am looking for an alternative movement -- one with clear ideals and a strong principled charismatic leader.
I saw a very disappointing commentary on a local news station regarding the occupy movement. It seemed more like an effort to mold opinion than to persuade by force of reason.
http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=175170
So, the Occupy movement continues. In fact, the members claim they're just getting warmed up. But at 2 months old and counting, the question remains: warmed up for what?
They know what they're mad about -- corporate greed, wealth inequality, and system that's not working well for a lot of us -- but ask the Occupy types what they want to do about these things, and the answers are not satisfying.
A spokesman told me and I quote-- "There's no one left to ask who can give us what we want...The occupation in and of itself....is a demand."
No, it's not...it's more like a tantrum. 'We're fired up..won't take no more!' Okay, what will you take? If you don't specifically ask for what you want...how will you even know if you're winning?
And here's the thing -- a lot of Americans are sympathetic to your complaints... that whole 99 percent thing resonates. On the other hand, 99 percent of us have...stuff to do, kids to raise.
Tearing down the whole system? Not an option 'cause then the subway stops running and these folks have to get to work. Occupy Wall Street and the rest of it got America's attention and captured the growing rage of the middle class... that's a victory. But if you want more, how do we get beyond camping out in the park?
Got any real ideas on how to fix this thing? Like Robert Redford said at the end of the classic movie "The Candidate" after winning an election he'd been guaranteed to lose -- "what do we do now?"
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Derek McGinty, I expect you to report the news that informs the electorate of the facts relevant to determining the course of future governmental policies. For example, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth held a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington DC on September 9, 2010. This is a professional organization now constituting over 1,600 credentialed professionals, expert in the field most relevant to assessing the cause of the destruction of the World Trade Center on 9/11/01. The US mainstream media completely ignored this hugely important event.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/c553ueb
What I want from you, Derek, is that you stop being part of the problem, and start being part of the solution.
Here's how real reporting works:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
Get busy, homeboy!
No, it is called suppression of information or better yet brainwashing!
I believe it is. Not exactly sure why.
it's a dead movement, it's over, no one cares about this movement, no one ever did except those that took part
OK. If you say so. I care about it. As you say, all those who took part will remember it also. It is the same as the vets. WW2 is over. The vets still care about it, even if you don't.
LOL, don't even compare this elementary school club to WW2, you guys don't deserve to have even remotely close to that honour. WW2 remembers heroes, OWS will have have memories of angry nobodies getting in everyone's way and ticking everyone off
Well, I will. My uncle was in WW2, and would have been proud of this movement. He fought for the First Allied Airborne Army and in Operation Neptune.
Obviously you are a complete moron and show great disrespect for those who fought in that war for comparing this child's game to WW2, go die in a fire
Are you a banker?
They are lucky that American citizens have not beat the crap out of them yet. They have no viable cause