Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Is it God’s command that we consume the earth for the benefit of the wealthy?

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 21, 2012, 7:06 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If one follows Rick Santorum’s positions it appears that we were created to consume the earth, and any restriction on the amount consumed by the very wealthy would be against God’s will.

67 Comments

67 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

That's the problem with Religion, its a death cult they can't wait for the rapture and their heavenly reward.

So they don't care about the future generations, who will surely curse us for what we have done by our inaction.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hey man I can agree, if you can change it to "one of the problems". Religion has been used in so many ways to confuse and control. To me it’s especially harmful because it plays on the natural moral character of people. Many sound moral principles have been expressed by profoundly religious people, and then you have Santorum coming along and using religion to promote the filthiest of public policy.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@factsrfun: I agree, also Santorum says sex is only for procreation. So if your sterile you can't have sexual relations, the same for people beyond the child bearing age, etc. So if you can't produce children you can't engage in sex.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

True, all true.

[-] 0 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

Buddhism isn't like that. And it is a religion. I don't think hinduism and Jainism are like that either.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@blackSun: Yes but we don't live in India. I should have specified the Abrahamic Religions.

[-] 0 points by BlackSun (275) from Agua León, BC 2 years ago

Not all Buddhists are in foreign countries. I'm Buddhist. But I do understand what you mean about the Abrahamic based creeds.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

"It is easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle, than it is for a rich man to enter heaven"
AND where are you headed to? Millionaire Rick ?
where, in your book, is abortion even mentioned ? Millionaire Rick ?
where, in your book, is birth control even mentioned ? Millionaire Rick ?
where, in your book, is polygamy mentioned ? Millionaire Rick ?
.........duh? maybe Moses ? ever heard of him - Millionaire Rick ?


We consumed the "earth" [ apple ]
for the benefit of the "wealthy" [ only 2 ] people
--------and what did God do? Millionaire Rick ?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thanks for stopping by, can you believe this guy, fights for his life to keep people from getting healthcare and calls himself a Christian?

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

sadly, he is just one of millions of American religio-lemmings that KNOW the truth.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Had a really wise man tell me, "That once you know something you stop learning about it."

[-] 0 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

Do you hold Christians to a higher standard than others?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I really try not to hold people to standards along those lines. I expect certain things from elected officals. Having said that, and having read a little bit of the King James version anyway, I don't see how he questions Obama's faith given his own actions.

[-] 0 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

Sounded as if you were judging him based upon the fact "he is a Christian". in fact, I'm fairly certain of it. ;)

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I do think that if you bring it to the public podium, it's fair game. If you don't want people to question your faith don't hold your faith out as a reason you should lead. of course it's made worst when you throw stones from a glass house.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

This is an incredibly level headed response that I actually agree with:) That being said I don't think faith should ever play a role in getting an official elected but both republicans and democrats both hold to it.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

We have our first black President, how long you think till the first atheist? Before I get the right riled up, I am not equating the two, just think we are at least a 100 years before we will get that far past religion. Oh and thank you.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

As sad as your statement is, it rings with truth.

Oh and you're welcome.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Love to see constitional addmendment forbiding cadidates from speaking of their religion. There's a lot of addmendment talk going around, not saying this is most important.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 2 years ago

They're all important

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There is a lot to do, no doubt, have you seen these? What do you think?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-to-occupy-from-httpwwwthe99declarationorg/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-is-the-occupy-movement-the-20000-people-in-ga/

Sorry if you’ve been there and I didn’t catch the comment, I’m still reading/thinking on these things.

[-] -2 points by KochRocks (-70) 2 years ago

We have our first knee grow president that is an atheist

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Definitely in reply to your question. If you don't believe me, ask the wealthy.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

After all what greater purpose could the world have, but to fuel my Bentley?

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Yes, the earth will someday burn as the sun expands in its death throes; better to consume everything before that time.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Still got a few billionyears by that measure, at this rate I think we'll be done well before that.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Nothing like helping God's plan along.

[-] 1 points by Bpshebiski (5) from Scottsdale, AZ 2 years ago

We'll probably just kill ourselves in some terrible World War. Nuclear Weapons, likely.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Still might be good to keep a few vegs alive in case we don't.

[-] 1 points by kjack (48) 2 years ago

Sounds like a 21st century rendition of Manifest Destiny.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

He has that look of a true believer in his eyes, it's kinda scary.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 2 years ago

Man, that's funny, that's just funny.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

yes, funny, and sad,..... It’s like the sweet and sour of religious beliefs, the sweet, you get to meet God, the sour, you got to destroy the Earth to get there.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 2 years ago

Wow, that's very good! Very good! Yes, these endless dichotomys of human existance are often sad, and we must not feel insecure if they baffle us. I'm sure they often baffled Solomon!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you Gypsy I do my best, this work is important.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 2 years ago

I still think it will be Romney, by the way. The big money boys want him, and they usually get what they want, at least for now.

[-] 1 points by kjack (48) 2 years ago

This debate season has been fun but its going to be Romney and the powers that be will see to it. For me this primary season lacks credibility because of allegations of ballot tampering in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and especially Maine in that Ron Paul has more support than the polls show and several inconsistencies such as ballots cast > registered voters in a precinct and entry/exit polls far from what the precinct actually reports.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 2 years ago

To be perfectly honest with you, I don't think the Republican leadership has given one damn about what their rank and file really think, or want, for a very long time. It's all about using their constituents, and then laughing at them once elected - all the way to the bank.

[-] 2 points by kjack (48) 2 years ago

You're right. The rank and file who 'don't fall in love but fall in line' are really just being taken for a ride. I've been following a show called Moyers & Company along with many other news sources/outlets. Along the lines of what you said, he interviewed a Tax Policy Advisor under the Reagan Administration who criticized the direction the party is headed and he then was essentially excommunicated from the party afterward! Check it out if you have the time: http://billmoyers.com/segment/bruce-bartlett-on-where-the-right-went-wrong/

Also this is completely worth 2 minutes of anyone's time, its an excerpt of Robert Norquist at CPAC 2012 saying what he expects from a future (Republican) president; its too good! (Fast-forward to 17:08 and watch for about 2 minutes) http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-decoding-the-campaigns/

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hard to see how anybody else gets there, but watch 03/06, the data from OK, TX, TN are all looking big Rick, at least we could make his buddies tied of writing checks.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

I suppose that the biblical information cited in the article linked here may be where Mr. Santorum is basing his statement. But it appears Santorum may be cherry picking just a skoash. If that's the case, his claim isn't going to hold up under scrutiny by theologians and others.

Please note what is written in the section regarding plants and animals and especially the section 'Spirituality and Environmental Degradation'

http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v06n4p05.htm

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I wouldn't know if Santorum is basing his speeches on this paper, as you say he doesn’t seem to catch the full meaning of the author. As a liberal I do not blame Christian’s for our environmental problems, but I am offended when someone says things like "God made it and man can't break it" like Jerry Farwell has been know to say. In general I find it a weak position to say "because God says so". My limited reading of the Bible has uncovered no conflict with honoring God and protecting the environment.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

The paper leads me to conclude that the Bible says that we are to care for the earth and if we fail to care properly for it, it will "vomit us out." How then can he claim Obama's energy and ecological policies are a false theology because Obama is placing the earth's well-being ("serving the earth") above humanity's? What I'm getting out of that paper is the idea of a symbiotic relationship. In caring for the earth, we are caring for ourselves. Am I wrong about this conclusion? Is Santorum misrepresenting what the Bible says? Am I misinterpreting Ancil's paper?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Not being a Biblical scholar, I will venture that my beliefs would hold that we must care for all within our reach. I hurry to say that I in no way claim to speak for any authority. I believe that religious doctrine does have a place even in public policy. I do feel that many views both faith based as well secular moral positions be included, Kant for example. (some may disagree, about Kant)

[-] 1 points by Progression (143) 2 years ago

What is Rick going to do when there is nothing left to consume? What a destructive command that constantly takes.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I know, what is he thinking?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22057) 2 years ago

Rick Santorum is a nut job.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thanks for stopping by beautiful, I think you're correct.

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 2 years ago

I am growing tired of these people using a book of questionable origins to dictate what we should think. These are the people who supported the Inquisition and the burning of witches. How far away from this emerging once again?

We need to sue these bible thumpers in court and subpoena God or Jesus to testify as to the truth. If neither of them show up then it should be mandatory that fundamentalists can't hold office and impose their views.

Let's put it to a test as to who is living in a fantasy.

"God will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth"

"Man can not serve two masters, either he will serve Mammon or he will serve God."

Two quotes that make it pretty clear where Jesus supposedly stands.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you for adding to the thread, you mentioned fundamentalists, as I look around the world it seems that wherever fundamentalism controls the government, we find the greatest outrages.

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 2 years ago

From SNL "Weekend Update" concerning the Republican field of candidates for their party's nomination (approximately) "...when asked to reply, President Obama said 'Keep talkin', boys!' " LOL!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Couldn't agree more, it's not my party, I know better than to try and pick the opponent, but I do wish Ed Shultz would shut up till at least after super Tuesday, I’m just saying.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

Actually, I've been told many times by Christians that indeed God gave humans dominion over animals and the earth and that God provided these gifts to be used and I guess, used up. I live in the south so this has been a conversation/debate that I've share many times with other Christians. Conservation, human rights and animals rights are not fundamentally, part of the Christian dogma. It wasn't until recent years when a ' green' pope and a few other religious leaders began talking about how glutton and greed were destroying the earth and calling it a sin. Today, many churches are attempting to promote environmental awareness but it's failing at the core because it's more superficially implemented than spiritually felt by the congregations which means that any efforts will be short-lived.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@Gillian: That's pure arrogance , to say the human animal has a right to destroy other animals for pleasure.

The right to despoil the Earth and leave nothing for future generations is the death cult of religion.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

That's right Chuck. In my opinion, I think it's pure evil at work. What makes religions and the mighty powerful Christian fundamentalists so dangerous is that they use use the illusion of purity to promote corruption, hatred, genocide, wars, etc.. and even our own ' patriotism' comes under attack when we disagree with our leadership aka ' God'.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

chuck-
you are missing one point -
most religions are death cults
believe my book - obey my priest - you will get into heaven and be happy when you are dead
kill an infadel and youself and you will get 72 virgins
the second coming is soon - so use it - you WILL lose it

Oh God! my view of God is George Burns

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

hahahaha I LOVE THAT MOVIE with Burns. It's so refreshing and just so real and honest.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@bensdad: What point am I missing?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

The right to despoil the Earth and leave nothing for future generations is the
death cult of religion


most religions are death cults

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 2 years ago

@bensdad: That's correct, but what point am I missing?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

As to your belief that a greener church will fail, i'd have you ponder how many religions, through many years, have changed their beliefs. Take the Catholic view of whether babies who died before being baptized went to purgatory, It was just decided after many generations of babies' souls sitting in purgatory that this is no longer the case. Also, usury and even Jesus going from a prophet to a god are changes that have happened over time. So maybe in the long run, environmentalism may grow on the Christian congregation. But, sadly, I some times believe that environmentalism is so counter intuitive to subduing the earth and the kingdom of Jesus after Armageddon, that they believe that the claim that global temperatures could hit critical mass is a satanic trick meant to deprive them of their property and soul. But who knows.

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

I actually know of some super green churches who really do make it a passion to live with reverence for the earth, life and nature but I guess those are liberal Christians..uggg, I forgot to distinguish between them and the conservative Christians. . I was mainly referring to those who only use the ' green' thing to capitalize on a trend and are lukewarm and their heart is not really aligned with that kind of thinking. A lot of businesses have this lukewarm mindset as well. In those cases. once the trendiness wears off, they revert back to their destructive nature. I do think though, like you do, that there is hope that more and more Christians will awaken to the need to protect our environment. I think the problem arises when our political leaders use religion to dismiss their opponents issues like global warming, evolution, science and even some historical facts. Texas for example doesn't want the kids to know about revolutionaries in this country that inspired change...Jefferson for example. This whitewashing of education is really harmful and a sin as far as I'm concerned. I began studying Judaism this past year and their dedication to environmental preservation and conservation. They use a very old phrase, ' Tikkun Olam" which means Repairing the World. There is a book called Tikkun Olam which you may enjoy reading. Tikkun Olam refers to repairing the world in many ways through our actions.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Good morning Gillian, I too grew up in the south. This is the way, I put it, God gave us minds, we should turn to God (whoever/whatever/or none at all) for our personal choices in life, and to our minds for public policy, and to the extent God has any wishes for us, I believe He has that one. (maybe some others too)

[-] 2 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

Good morning :) Thanks for sharing. You seem to have a very balanced and healthy perspective that I can relate to. I'm not a religious person anymore in that I don't belong to any one group or adhere to any one dogma. I have my personal relationship with God and I prefer it that way. I Don't compartmentalize God from the rest of the world, it's peoples or nature. I see God in everything naturally occurring and believe it is a privilege to be here and it is my duty to be a steward of the earth by protecting and nurturing it at all times. God is my conscience I suppose. Public policy on the other hand, like so much in our lives, is man made and in my opinion should never be sold as a religious belief....even though a person's spiritual beliefs will influence how they perceive the world and develop policies that affect us all. The term dominion has been conveniently misinterpreted by many Christians in order to justify their gluttony ( God wants them to prosper and utilize everything around them) and or so they can dominate, abuse, objectify and destroy simply because they have the ability to do it. I have been told so many times that God created cows for us to eat and I'm not going to argue with that ( even though I could) but when we believe that factory farming is a practice that God would approve of, I take issue. Some Christians that I meet are big hunters and fisherman. I don't take issue with someone who hunts respectfully with a reverence for life but to hunt or fish for sport really bothers me because it's ego based, not spiritual and leads to destructive behaviors that destroy life and natural habitat. When hunters gloat on their kills I take offense. I believe it's disrespectful and morally degrading to pose with a dead dear on one's knee or a pile of doves at their feet. My neighbor always uses " God's Will" as a justification for being irresponsible and for killing animals and displaying his kills across his front lawn for everyone to see. God may be happy that he has food for his family but I don't think God would be too happy to know that the animals were killed in vain.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I picked up this idea somewhere, I'm sure from some wise source, that once you see Him, you see Him everywhere; I think I agree with that.

I think for me, one should always consider morality/spirituality in those things one supports, but don't use your faith to convince another, your reason should be sufficient, let their spirituality guide them.

[-] 1 points by Gillian (1842) 2 years ago

I like that...and I do truly see Him in everything and everyone...even the not so nice folks. My grandmother used to tell me that it's not necessary or respectful to advertise your Christian faith to anyone because your spiritual character will shine through and inspire others.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6496) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you for the input, take heart.

[Removed]