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Forum Post: Instead of Demands, Solutions

Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 21, 2011, 4:56 p.m. EST by riethc (1149)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If you don't like to "have demands" why don't we "pose solutions" instead?

OWS has the attention of the mainstream media at the moment but this window of opportunity is closing fast.. We should be getting more "memes", or what I would call "good ideas", out there in public before the the mainstream media spin gets worse or the attention of the public is diverted elsewhere.

We can do this by not only posing the solution(s) but also by explaining how this/these solution(s) would address certain issues of the 99%. It's not that we can solve problems of society this way (like having our demands met by demanding them, for that matter), but we can get people to rally around good ideas and grow the movement more, as people latch onto the soundness of this/these idea(s).



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[-] 2 points by MPowers (34) 11 years ago

Achtung, An investigation, indictment & prosecution of the Club Fed conspiracy is an especially good idea, but implementation & logistics are where we need to be focusing our collective energy & will. Brainstorming is great, where all ideas are considered, however briefly. It sparks new solutions & options that would otherwise be undiscovered. I like most of the ideas swirling around here, but there is almost zero evidence of deep, extensive experience and R&D in complex planning and the mechanics of money & politics. The 1% don't care who votes because, as T Jefferson knew & warned, as long as they control the power of money in a culture with a socioeconomic system, they rule. That's why Sen. D Kucinich's bill, the "American Monetary Act" is essential. Tyrants like Stalin don't care how many people vote, as long as they count the votes. Most of the good ideas floated here have no stated or implied stratagem for implementation, nor any consideration of how the best options would fit together in a functional solution. More importantly, most of the ideas would take an indefinite amount of time to present and implement as practical elements of a real, sustainable solution. We have no idea how much time we have for brainstorming, but The Problem and time won't wait for us to decide how long we want to bandy about all our coolest ideas. On the other hand, there are practical, powerful alternatives that we can initiate and start using now. The power that we have available right now can make Wall Street and Club Fed irrelevant. Can I explain it in a blog comment? No, redesigning and planning a workable alternative to global financial tyranny & ecocide is no simple matter for mere chat, no matter how creative or pragmatic. We are either going to get serious and commit to heroic action and extraordinary, well orchestrated efforts, or we will all grow older in a sicker world with diminishing options for a rescue of human culture. Clearly, part of the concerted effort required is being willing to learn & do WHATEVER it takes to defeat tyranny and exorcise ecocidal mania posing as normally adaptive thought, speech, behavior, and politics as usual. Will it be as easy as protesting, camping, and chatting? No. Can exerting a tremendous, irrepressible, heroic effort for the sake of a better, greener NEW world really work? Not only is it the only thing that ever has, but the alternative, this unfree world game never has, that's why we're in the End Game phase of Plutonomy. For explanation, background, and resources for action planning, see The Greenbook > mm-greenbook dot blogspot dotcom <&> EcotectureNOW dot wordpress dotcom < Thanks, Riethc, your insight is Rite On. Blessings & Victory!

[-] 2 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

how about this?

Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "once again." And a Million People March on The Hill will help get it done!

For example, "We are here Congress because we want to bring REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which helped saved our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies--why can't we learn a history lesson here Congress? Btw, why did most of you vote for its final repeal in 1999? http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act (2nd story here)

Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with lawmakers like Senator Phil Gramm: CNN's The Ten Most Responsible for Economy Collapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related

Furthermore, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 250 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically, legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right think, or you're part of the 1%."

Why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole



Rolling Stones Reporter: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw

Let's get focused and bring back Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this; but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the banks and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.

[-] 1 points by enough (587) 11 years ago

I like your proposals but think congress itself is also in dire need of reform. How about #OWS proposing the Congressional Reform Act of 2011, as follows? This list of demands has gone viral.

No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.
Congress (past, present and future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.
Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.
Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.

This package of reforms should universally appeal to all Americans, with the notable exception of members of congress. But even the members of congress, who enjoy these outrageous self-serving benefits, will not stand up publicly to defend their current perquisites because they are indefensible. The above list of reforms is a no-brainer and should be adopted and published by the #OWS. If this is the first set of #OWS demands, it will put congress itself on notice and will appeal to all Americans across all political parties and demographics.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

love it. thanks for sharing!

[-] 1 points by doru001 (174) 11 years ago

All this is great, only that they won't do it. They just did the opposite a few years ago.

We should demand detailed real-time information and control over our government's activity. The economy is using computers, politics are controlled as if we're using steam engines.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

glad you brought that up, Here's my lofty dream:

Today Congress we are here to start the wheels of governing turning in a different direction. It’s pretty obvious to me and the American people that our voice has been lost in the rambling of lobbyist's hard cash throughout the Halls of Justice.

So we are here to take back our government and restore its fundamental principals to the American people. That this government is for the people, and by the people, and not by the rich anymore.

Here’s how we plan on accomplishing this. First, ladies and gentlemen of the US Congress, we are setting up a nationwide interactive website devoted to understanding (if possible) why you vote on a particular issue, and if that vote benefits the American people the most, or one of your campaign contributors? After every vote in Congress, the American people can now see what you are thinking, or not. How? These results will be broadcasted nightly on all of the major networks and on the web.

Secondly, to maintain an even playing filed, we will next enact campaign contribution limits on a maximum of $100 for any person or corporation or so forth; so hopefully now we have an even playing field, which now the lawmaker will hopefully pick what’s right for the American people, verse big business!

Next, it gets better, we are introducing a bill that would require all lawmakers to take a lie detector test if they are asked why they voted on a particular bill.

I’m sorry to say Congress that it has come down to this, but when you deal with children, sometimes you are forced to act according.

Thanks you for your time.

[-] 1 points by doru001 (174) 11 years ago

Also, for every issue which is voted, online polls should be conducted in real time, just to let us all know what do citizens think.

The limit in donations could be tricked if corporations donate $110 to poor people under the provision that they donate $100 to a candidate. Also, the Congress will not vote this.

The detector test is not reliable and therefore not desirable. Plus, it matters what they vote, not what they think when they vote. We have to think for ourselves to understand the consequences of what is voted.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

I know, the lie detector was more for the movies, but what about that? make a movie out of it, Mr. Smith goes back to Washington with a real time voting network so we can see daily why they (may) I have voted for a bill.

[-] 1 points by doru001 (174) 11 years ago

They can report more often than once in four years. They can report every hour.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago


[-] 1 points by doru001 (174) 11 years ago

Now, how do we get others to support this idea?

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

how about posting a site to arranhe a miilion march on the hill! that's one way to get organized

[-] 1 points by doru001 (174) 11 years ago

we need to be more people to advertise a site. how do we find more people? here is difficult. Everybody speaks and nobody listens.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

maybe POST a site: March on Washington, DC to Reform Wall Street, and Congress. I know it sounds too big to happen, but that's how it happens, with a Dream, we'll make it concert too, a mild Woodstock

[-] 1 points by doru001 (174) 11 years ago

I am a bit concerned because of this: http://mail001.blogspot.com/2011/03/open-society.html

You see, a regular and boring activity is required for us to succeed. People need to meet weekly to discuss their common problems and take decisions and act. Big uprisings are more characteristic to societies with low civic activity, and after the big uprising the situation changes little.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

Yes, Glass-Steagall is a clear solution that can be explained and will have its intended affect once implemented. Keep up the word on it.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

let's get it done!

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

agreed, weneed to work on solutions.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

Hey gawdoftruth. How have you been? This forum has gotten ugly since the last time I really got to check it out.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

well, i have two citations/ trophies for occupy SB. I am doing pretty good i guess. yes the forum has gotten ugly as i predicted it would without a wiki or sub forums. I should be able to link to a wiki which i will apparently have to get somebody to put up locally- very soon..

its nice to see the old names around... keep in touch...

i think that what you have outlined here is in essence the true core answer. we need to do that process 101 times for each main issue.. iron it out-- thats how we make the communication to the 98 percent happen. The numbers trending yeserday and today show that interest and focus and energy peaked and are now falling.

now would be a fine time for the movement to bother to listen to all of the advice i have given which has mostly been wasted- and this- your advice- which is also spot on.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

Thanks for the kind words. I know what you mean about people not taking advice. There are some underlying beliefs that many people are unaware of about the modern idea of what we call "democracy".

If you have an hour, check this documentary. It's illuminating, to say the least.


[-] 1 points by seeker (242) 11 years ago

Co-operative system opposed to corporate system..

Direct democracy opposed to party political democracy..

[-] 1 points by LaoTzu (169) 11 years ago

I have solutions and I'm already achieving them locally with my occupation. It's called self-sufficiency. Non-dependency & Non-compliance to a corrupt system.

[-] 1 points by rajarood (67) 11 years ago

Very good. But 200,000,000 can't be occupiers. Please expand on your personal efforts and how they could be popularized/multiplied in this thread http://occupywallst.org/forum/ideas-for-effecting-change/

[-] 1 points by rajarood (67) 11 years ago

Reforming the corpoRATocracy and plutocrat "top down" controlled political system is not a realistic goal for the OWS / 99ers. Remember how Ghandi beat the Empire with bottom up tactics. I shared some ideas for personal, bottom up action which might have paradigm shifting consequences in this thread: http://occupywallst.org/forum/ideas-for-effecting-change/

[-] 1 points by dankpoet (425) 11 years ago

We have a difficult task, an awesome duty to awaken people; startle them without scaring them. We need a non-divisive, internally consistent, easily discernible and relate-able narrative. Our one goal, as I believe that is all we can afford without division, needs to be: Amend the Constitution for government ONLY financing of elections, no contributions, from anyone; rendering Citizens United a moot point. It’s the only piece of this that resonates with the anti-establishment left, the anti-establishment right and everyone in between, including many of those who make 350k+. Sure It’s great to make that kind of money but that doesn't mean you want to spend it on some one's (or even your own) campaign. There, your tiny breath will be drowned by the deafening wind of the mega-corps, the uber-unions, and by treacherous and selfish interests of all types, to the detriment of society. This is the banner under which we can unite, indeed must unite. We must amend, then we can debate what kind of society we want, which policies, parties, or politicians, or ideologies to endorse. Until democracy is unleashed and the republic restored there is no way forward. The pulse of this movement endlessly uniting and growing, immune to their false discourse will so tremble those who cannot be won, they will proactively try to appease us. Won't that be nice? They will try to buy our petty differences and desires, preying anew on the weary and the wavering. But we, the proud children of a free nation will not be appeased by half measures, promises and lies. We want what we deserve, that which is ours by moral right, paid for by the spirit of our martyrs, a meaningful say in the matters that properly concern us.

[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 11 years ago

I think that getting the money out of politics is something we need to work towards. I am interested in working with like-minded individuals to develop solutions. Please see my post: occupywallst.org/forum/get-the-money-out-of-politics or check out www.themultitude.org and let me know if you are interested in working towards a solution.

[-] 1 points by stevea (1) 11 years ago
  1. What: Initiate a national referendum to invoke a PREQUEL to the US Constitution enabling direct voting on all legislation and policies via the internet. One person one vote. Make democracy real – not representative.
  2. Why: All other solutions require going through the existing legislative systems – lobbyists, sponsors etc. It is such a unifying and simple subject that it would begin to transend the “Occupy Wall Street” concept to a basic structural change.
  3. How: Engage a national discussion (with all of the intellectual resources the country possess) regarding how to legally bring the people back in to control of the system. It would require constitutinoal scholars, attorneys and common sense people to develop a new way of doing things.
[-] 1 points by aphrodite837 (145) 11 years ago

While I think it would be interesting to enact something like that, I imagine that the logistics would be extremely difficult.

[-] 1 points by Harris5234 (1) from Hilliard, OH 11 years ago

It is as simple as to say change to a resource based economy

[-] 1 points by whynotus (15) 11 years ago

1.Take citizenship away from corporations.

  1. Eliminate the corporate income tax and in exchange make it illegal for a corporation to contribute to ANY political campaign.
  2. Make all such contributions a felony bribe.
  3. Individuals cannot contribute to a candidate they cannot legally vote for and make all such contributions a felony bribe.
  4. Limit all contributions to $3000.00 IT IS TIME TO TAKE BACK WASHINGTON FROM WALL STREET!
[-] 1 points by TCurtin (34) 11 years ago

One part of solution to posit, Show Obama some supoort, and maybe get some back. It really bothers me that people are blaming Obama and putting this whole mess on him. He was handed a bag of crap. In watching his speeches, he is as frustrated as we are. The president does not have absolute power over these matters. Look at his hair, he went gray from all the stress in just a couple years. His jobs bill, trying to do EXACTLY what this movement is pushing for, was just shot down by the Republicans. They want to blame Bush's mess on Obama, and make him look incapable of getting anything done, so they can then get their own person in power and repeat the cycle. If people don't see that IMO they are blind. Just like Princess Leah said, Luke (Obama), your our only hope. When they asked the same question to both candidates in the last election, "what is the median income in the U.S." Obama said around $200,000. McCain, and I fell off my chair when he said this, said the median income of Americans is $5 million dollars a year. Now both were way off, its much lower, but how out of touch does this make the Republican Party seem? I feel that part of your agenda should be to show some support for Obama, and in return you may get some back. And no, I am not Democrat, I voted for Bush, regrettably. I vote for the person I think has the best interests of the people in mind and can hopefully get something done. Obama is not the enemy, and is likely the best ally in this cause.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

Show Obama support? Nuts.

[-] 1 points by TCurtin (34) 11 years ago

Care to elaborate more? How is your statement constructive? Or are you just brainwashed. Analyze where you think he is failing, i would like to know. While you may not have liked the healthcare bill for your own reasons, many did. That's democracy. Doesn't always go your way. Everything he tries to do gets squashed by Congress. How can anything be put on him, really? He has had no support from anybody practically since the day he was elected. People expected him to magically fix many years of building issues in about 3 months, that's when people first started asking, well why isn't everything fixed yet? How the hell is he supposed to get anything done, presidential mandate? He is the president, gets no support from most people, and people bash on him constantly. If I were him i would say eff this and go home.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

What are you talking about? Obama is Bush's third term, just with a new face.

[-] 1 points by citypaint (2) 11 years ago

SECOND CLASS CITIZENSHIP for Corp. CEO's and Presidents who outsource American jobs !!! I think its a great idea. It would force them to be accountable for the first time to the government for betraying America by giving our jobs to foreigners and other nations. If they got that, then they wouldn't be able to buy politicians like they have. It was an idea that I read about in "The Face of Welfare" by Jane Doe, Amazon Kindle books.

[-] 1 points by citypaint (2) 11 years ago

SECOND CLASS CITIZENSHIP for Corp. CEO's and Presidents who outsource American jobs !!! I think its a great idea. It would force them to be accountable for the first time to the government for betraying America by giving our jobs to foreigners and other nations. If they got that, then they wouldn't be able to buy politicians like they have. It was an idea that I read about in "The Face of Welfare" by Jane Doe, Amazon Kindle books.

[-] 1 points by gardenguy (27) 11 years ago

Perhaps we posit these solutions (not demands) through a growing movement of grass roots, localized, Purple Finger Votes. Develop surveys in the General Assembly. Distribute ballots online and on the ground. Ink the fingers of all who mobilize to participate in purple to ensure no one votes more than once. Get some clear numbers. Are we not the 99%?

Envision the image spanning the globe of a multitude of purple fingers raised in solidarity, wresting a new, truer Democracy from the hands of the corporatoracy where bullying corporations are judged to be the new "citizen." Rally supporters out of their homes and into the Occupations for regular votes to showcase strength in numbers as the number of Occupiers most likely wanes over the course of the oncoming winter months, and maybe develop a consensus?

[-] 1 points by Achtung (2) from Jersey Stadt, NJ 11 years ago

Here is my solution:

  • investigation of Wall St / financial fraud tribunals
  • invasion of Saudi Arabia, the top supporter of terrorism
  • constitutional assembly
[-] 1 points by TCurtin (34) 11 years ago

You want solutions, here is one I put out there for debate. What about "Capitalism with a Cap" If you work harder then you earn more, to a point. You can even set that bar pretty high, like 1 million a year income, but when you reach that point you have to put the rest into something for the public good. Such as adding a new section to the local library, and you can even put your name on it so you get some recognition for your hard work, but it must be put to a public good. Create a park, hospital wing for the poor, etc. If this was not abused, such as people hiding and tranferring money to some other entity to hide it, it could work. Make the penalty for doing so a real deterrent, like 10 years prison time. Also pass some legislation regulating the temp employment and part-time hiring practices, so people actually qualify for benefits. Companies hire double the employees and give them all part-time hours so you need 2 jobs and don't qualify for benefits as a cost savings measure to their company. Amounts to just a different form of slavery in my book. Put an end to that and require fair wages from these corporate entities, I believe this is what people really want. Fair compensation for their work. When getting to work costs $10 or more, plus lunch $8, and after taxes, your take home pay is barely enough to live on without going into debt. Nothing will change until Blue Collar jobs are brought back to this country. Not everybody has the aptitude for tech jobs or to be the CEO, cruel but true. What's left, some big box retailer that pays crap, so the owners, like the Walmart family, can build giant bomb shelters (Seriously, they have an enormous one) or buy a 4th vacation home and new ferrarri. They crush the small guys, get huge tax incentives to come into a community, and pay essentially nothing. Fix these issues and it's at least a start. Ironic that we will need to become protectionist for American companies when not long ago we convinced China to open their country which was isolationist. Pre WWII, we were isolationist. My two cents, probably only worth a penny.

T. Curtin Wisconsin

[-] 1 points by TCurtin (34) 11 years ago

I understand your reasons for the leaderless movement concept, but i fear its one of those better on paper concepts. Without clear direction you will lose some people and not gain support from others. Media coverage is declining, except to cover the lack of coverage or report on arrests and negative aspects. People are confused. I have been following closely and am 100% behind the movement, but you need to articulate clearly what it is that you stand for (Saying equality is not enough). This in itself will be complicated if your trying to include the masses, so many varied ideals and opinions. In reading many comments from people, some are not sure where your attempting to go with it. A Utopian society is not realistic, its an ideal. At the end of the day you need direction. At a minimum you need a spokesperson, and rotate that person if you like so their not viewed as the leader and gain too much power. The system is corrupt, people know this, but aren't going to join the movement if they are not sure what you stand for. I for one am not anti-capitalist necessarily, it works as well as anything when not corrupted and monopolies are kept in check. People should have more if they work harder than the guy next to them, seems fair to me, but a rigged system that favors the corporate monopolies throws it all out of whack. You can't throw out a system that until recent times has worked to create the greatest nation, without a better solution. The founding fathers designed it this way for a reason, and having read the Federalist Papers, their reasons seemed solid to me. The problem is the machine has become far larger than they imagined at that time, and is far more corrupt due to lobbyists than could have been accounted for. Never give up, Never Surrender. Good Luck. T. Curtin Wisconsin

[-] 1 points by StevenRoyal (490) from Dania Beach, FL 11 years ago

Solution #1: get the money out of politics. Solution #2: increase representation in Congress from the current 1 Rep. per 720,000 population to 1 Rep. per 500,000 population.

[-] 1 points by madeinusa (393) 11 years ago

No more outsourcing and so called "free trade" support American jobs in the USA buy MADE IN USA

[-] 1 points by MPowers (34) 11 years ago

FYI: The so-called reforms & safeguards that leave the system intact without a built-in counter measure in the guts of the system itself, leaves us all vulnerable to repeated replays, just as it has for the last 5000 years. We need a fundamentally new system, with new rules for ordinary folk who want to just do their jobs & parts. See > mm-greenbook.blogspot.com

[-] 1 points by MPowers (34) 11 years ago

Howtodoit, Great inspiration, but it will work better to just quit paying. Hey, "free" means you don't have to pay, rite? What happens if 5% then 10% then 20% of us quit buying & paying? We get our power back much quicker.

[-] 1 points by MPowers (34) 11 years ago

Thank you! I've been trying to get RWER.wordpress.org members motivated to do something for too long. For "concrete" proposals, stratagems, tools & action planning recommendations for a real solution, and effective alternative & options, see > mm-greenbook.blogspot.com < MM

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 11 years ago

Agreed, and I particularly like the statement -- we can do this by not only posing the solution(s) but also by explaining how this/these solution(s) would address certain issues of the 99% -- so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo and then direct questions or comments to our group's 19 members committed to that plan at: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

and don't foget to Close The Enron Loophole! that's crazy it hasn't been done yet, saw this live in June 2008:

Former head of the Futures Commodites; look how mad he is:



[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

That's something I wasn't aware of. Thanks for the link.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

btw, I voted fo Obama

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 11 years ago

your welcome partner. And it was as big as glass-steagall repeal in 1999 by Clinton with help from Rep. Senator Phil Gramm , if anymore noticed then, which Clinton, who also signed into law the New Futures Modernization Act of 2000 (creating the Enron Loophole), says now, if I knew what would of happened, I would never of done it. My question is: Mr. Clinton, that will solve 90% of the problem (it's not legal anymore); So help us restore the regulations from 1933 you threw out. where is your heart or conscious? And don't forget your place in history, because it's being re-defined now as the truth gets out.

[-] 1 points by yasminec001 (584) 11 years ago

Throw out money, and the ability to hide it.

You will get rid of almost all corruption and illegal transactions and unfair conditions.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

"Throw out money"

In what sense do you mean?

[-] 0 points by gforz (-43) 11 years ago

Exactly. I'm a conservative and am all for this, but it has to be ALL money. It should also be about the money going OUT of the government TO corporations. They can just bribe politicians in reverse (basically bidding to see who will pay them more once they're out of office as consultants, lobbyists, etc.) The less government is responsible for payment and picking who gets government contracts, the better. And stop right there. This will give power back to the people to elect their representatives, who now will not be beholden to anyone but the people, hopefully.

[-] 1 points by yasminec001 (584) 11 years ago

Well, you guys might think I'm crazy.

But I'm talking about eliminating money as we understand it. It is so easy to do all the things that are corrupted that we are angry about because it is so easy to hide money, hide transactions, and hide the truth.

We should install a monetary system of debits and credits (or any other ideas you have) that is absolutely wide-open to public scrutiny, traceable, and accountable.

[-] 0 points by gforz (-43) 11 years ago

Using what? You have to have an initial balance to start debiting and crediting from. I don't know what the answer is, because quite frankly I don't think you can legislate people's morality or greed. For every rule or piece of legislation you propose, you have to have someone to enforce that rule or legislation (look at the SEC, they couldn't even understand the complexity of the derivatives market, I mean, they were the enforcers of the law and the bankers were smarter than they were), and many ways to attempt to get around it.

[-] 1 points by yasminec001 (584) 11 years ago

"I don't think you can legislate people's morality or greed."

Truer words were never spoken. Below is my plan on currency for when we are stable as a world. Initially, the debits and credits system will be a national thing until it can be worldwide.

The Issue of Currency

It takes a strong person, a strong nation, a strong world to be able to start from scratch. The time has come to throw away our coins, paper monies, and individual national currencies.

I propose we establish a Worldwide Compensation System.

This system would be completely visible, open, traceable, and totally accountable.

The two main functions of this system are as follows:

  1. Credits will be given to people who render services and produce products.
  2. Debits will be given to people who use services and consume products.

Absolutely everything would function within this system. This includes and is not limited to: Inheritances, Returns on Investments, winnings of wagers, salaries and wages, tips and gratuities, etc.

Nothing can be purchased without Credit. And everyone’s’ records are wide open to the public.

The benefits of the WCS will include and is most certainly not limited to the knowledge of hidden transactions, what corporations are spending and paying, what a corporation’s cost is on an item and their price, and who is being unfairly paid. The Issue of Taxes

Only for those who voluntarily request such a deduction, the WCS would subtract 10 percent of earnings each year.

This would mean no income tax, no confusing and hard-to-comprehend forms to file, no deductions to figure, no “escape hatch” to create or obfuscation to construct. And since the WCS is publicly visible, anyone at any given time can observe who chose to offer this deduction and who did not.

This deduction would go towards support of all the services and programs of the government, as voted on by the people.

One’s income would be decided based on the open marketplace.

Under the WCS, everyone would earn as much each year as they could and will be able to retain what they earn, up to a certain amount. This arbitrary limit will be put in to place to direct the earnings above the limit towards the World Charitable Trust in the name of the contributor.

Benefactors would have the option of direct control over the disbursement of 60% of their contribution, providing them the satisfaction of putting most of their money where they want to. The other 40% would be allocated to programs legislated by the World Federation and administered by it.

[-] 1 points by TheKingofHearts (14) 11 years ago

This is a nice idea, but unreasonable. How can you expect the rich and the government not to take more advantage of that system then the one we already have. Besides, if you take away money, people can still just deal in gold, which never looses it's value. Company profits should be made public, but a consumers resources and privacy should be respected.

[-] 0 points by gforz (-43) 11 years ago

Interesting. Of course you'd have to have all sorts of laws like collusion to prevent say, attorneys from all getting together and deciding that they'll all charge the same, enormous fees to their clients. And I would say that the establishment of an arbitrary upper income limit will have a direct affect on the output of the society, not only what type of life an individual can lead, but what type of public investments can be made, as you'd have a lot of people just quit working after they'd made the maximum.

[-] 1 points by aarongreenspan (36) from Palo Alto, CA 11 years ago

There are already a bunch here:


Red = Problem Green = Solution

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

These websites are fun, like this one [http://coupmedia.org/occupy-vote.html], but I don't see any action being taken on them. It seems like just a futile exercise in opinion polling, if you ask me.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 11 years ago


No chance for progress in America

The media pundits keep telling Americans on TV that we must have globalization, we must only elect Republicans and Democrats, we shouldn't have a class war, we should keep letting the politicians take bribes on the record and kickback favors for those bribes, and the list is a bottomless pit of stupidity,

Only people in a deep trance would be irrational. Americans are so arrogant and hypocritical that they'd prefer being destroyed by the pundits who use propaganda to keep them in a trance around the clock.

Obama has lied about everything he promised us. I don't care what color the president is if he's making decisions that will benefit all Americans with good job opportunities, fair taxation, and a great energy plan.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

The problem is media immersion, when no one actually takes time to think about things themselves. Nevertheless, this quote should give you a way of clear way of thinking about it.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." A. Lincoln


[-] 1 points by gardenguy (27) 11 years ago

I totally disagree, MikeyD. When is working harder the wrong thing to do? Remaining nebulous may relegate us in history as no more than a canary in the coal mine of these times.

I will continue to suggest implementing a Purple Finger Vote, based upon the system developed in Iraq. Grass roots. Assemble a series of survey style votes within the General Assembly. Distribute the ballots inexpensively - online? Ink the fingers of all those who mobilize to participate in purple to ensure no one may vote more than once.

Imagine the mass images of a multitude of purple fingers raised in solidarity as we develop a coherent voice - a consensus - and topple the corporatocracy through a truer Democracy as we build our strength through a common vision...


[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 11 years ago

The majority on this site seem to self identify as "independent", though that may mean left, hard to say. I dare to say there are far greater numbers of people who support the general ideas presented here who are not on the streets than those that are. I also suspect that those on the street are younger and more idealistic than those of us sitting at home at our computers. The energy of the young is very much needed, but if I dare say (since I'm not young) a bit more pragmatism is, I think, in order. With out specific goals, priorities and strategies,including fielding candidates,I'm not optimistic.


[-] 0 points by jamesvapor (221) 11 years ago

woohoo , ok who is the fucking leader , and lets get this shit going. i'll book my flight when they are willing to shake my hand.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

A leader? Are you new to the movement?

[-] 1 points by jamesvapor (221) 11 years ago

yes , explain please .

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

Major decisions for OWS are made by General Assemblies, which are kind of like Senates, except that decisions are made by consensus rather than by majority vote. Try searching "occupy wall street, general assemblies". I'm sure somewhere on the web there is a full explanation of it.

[-] 1 points by stevemiller (1062) 11 years ago

I will be the first official OWS candidate to win the next election for the CT 4th district. My platform is described on my blog that I have been writing since 2006. read it http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/

More to come. I will be the Green Party candidate. Please support me and please nominate a Green Party candidate in every USA district.

Invite me to the general assembly to hear my strategy.