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Forum Post: I'm Calling Everyone - Everyone Out There Who Supports This Movement To Let Your Voices Be Heard!

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 10, 2012, 4:30 a.m. EST by GypsyKing (9727)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I don't care who you are, or what you have to say, if you support the movement to end corporate rule of the world, let your voice be heard here. I don't care where you live, or if you speak English very well, let your voice be heard. We are the 99.9%; let our voices be heard! If you live in a "third world" nation, let your voice be heard here! Tell us your story, we want to hear it.

We support our brothers and sisters in Syria. We support our brothers and sisters in Burma. We support our brothers and sisters working in factories in China, we support our brothers and sisters in Greece, Portugal, Ireland and spain. We support our brothers and sisters in Central and South America. Let us hear you stories. We NEED to hear your stories. We need to know that we have the support of others in the world. We are surrounded by adversaries and silence here in the US. We need to hear your voices We are one world, one people, please reach out now and talk to us!!!

105 Comments

105 Comments


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[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20500) 2 years ago

Having universal healthcare provided by the government on a very basic, maybe even just a catastrophic level, would end all of this. Removing health insurance from the realm of employers and having affordable plans available to all citizens to purchase the insurance they personally want, to compliment the basic universal plan, would end all of this.

[-] 4 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

If you give health care to all; paid for through taxes; and remove the "for profit" component; you would save 30%+ right out of the gate. Some of the things you do need to spend money on to supply health care to someone is doctors, nurses, hospitals, drugs, medical equipment, clinics, etc. The one thing you don't need is insurance companies. They offer no service except to jack-up the costs and provide a return for their investors at patients expense.

Think about it. The only way an insurance company can make money is to collectively overcharge their customers the percentage of profit margin, over and above their expenses. The expenses include the paying of claims, but also include, executive pay and bonuses, employee pay, benefits, taxes (maybe not), Marketing and Administrative Expenses ( you even have to pay for their TV ads), utility costs, maintenance costs, and much, much, more; that are passed directly to the patient on top of already high actual health care costs.

A 2004 economic study published in The New England Journal of Medicine determined that a national single-payer healthcare system would reduce costs by more than $400 billion a year "despite the expansion of comprehensive care to all Americans." I'm sure that figure has increased since then.

I think the cartoon at the bottom of this page says it all -

http://www.healthcare-now.org/whats-single-payer/

Cheers :)

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (20500) 2 years ago

Great points and I agree with you. I just don't think we'll get that anytime soon. Most people just can't wrap their heads around a national single-payer healthcare system. You are 100% right, though.

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

I understand peoples' fear of "socialized medicine" because that's what's sold to them. Fear. People must "unplug" and evaluate the "clean" facts for themselves.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. ~ Thomas Jefferson ~

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I think the problems that humanity is facing right now are dire and sweeping. What is called for now is a rethinking of the fundamental values we hold as a species, from one based upon material aquisition to one that acknowledges us as the caretakers of life on this planet. We need a new enlightenment.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20500) 2 years ago

LOL! GK, I'm losing my mind. That post was supposed to be on BensDad's thread, not yours. I must have hit my back or forward arrow without realizing.

Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with you. We do need something along the lines of a new enlightenment. We need to think big. We are at a crossroads moving away from the fall out of the Industrial Revolution and the Protestant Reformation. It is a momentous time. But, history moves slowly so it will probably take a while.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Thanks, your response out of context left me blithering for awhile! LOL!

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20500) 2 years ago

LOLOL! I would delete it, but since you responded and it's good for a hearty laugh I'll leave it up.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

That's fine! I really was taken aback, from you that is! LOL! LOL!

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21783) 2 years ago

DanMich OWS curious

Private Messages

send message

DanMich said 3 hours ago at Feb. 10, 2012, 1:19 p.m. EST (delete) I see you faggot little buddy zendog has been banned. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Your next to be banned loser

GirlFriday said 1 month ago at Dec. 30, 2011, 12:06 p.m. EST (delete) How so?

DanMich said 1 month ago at Dec. 30, 2011, 11:54 a.m. EST (delete) OWS is an attack on freedom and nothing else___

The little pieces of shit.

Zen was banned by Thrassy?

Fuckin' really?
to band together?

hmmhmmmhmmm. Not just my children but my children's children.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Funny thing, they keep pronouncing this movement dead, but we're still here, and we still will be with or without this forum.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I do not envy the moderators for having to determine what is and what is not acceptable on this forum!

Clearly there is a lot of hate speech, spaming, and obstructionism that cannot be tollerated. On the other hand, I think we all believe that we should give as much latitude as possible to legitimate freedom of expression, whether we agree with it or not.

I'm just stating the obvious here, but I'm sure glad I don't have to make these decisions over and over again!

I think the movement as a whole should recognise the importance of this web site and hire some fundraisers to pay the moderators and also hire more people to aid them here. Outreach is paramount to the success of this undertaking.

This site ha improved greately from the state it was in at a certain point, but I still think they need a lot more help and infusion of money to get it to a first rate standard.

[-] 3 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

I saw those voices come here in the early days of this forum, and they were immediately and unmercifully attacked by " right wing" trolls.

Most never came back.

How do we encourage them to return?

[-] 4 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I am finally going to come out and say a few things that I have not said before in the interests of unity, about where I see the structure of this movement going critically wrong.

These people were chased away from this forum by right wing trolls. Why, because there has not been enough priority put on moderating this forum. Apparently there are only a few moderstors, and they are donating their time.

Alright, this is madness. What could be more important than outreach in a movement like this? Nothing.

This is the main site for a global movement, and it is neglected. Fine, but it seems to me like we might actually want to win this battle. What, in God's name are people thinking?

Secondly, the NYNGA is what, exactly? It's roll isn't defined. It is both the central structure of this movement, and it is not the central structure of this movement. It is a decision making body that doesn't make decisions. As such, it is worse than having no structure at all. It's very dysfunction taints this movement as being completely inept.

Both of these situations are so detremental to this movement that they alone will destroy us if we don't change them. They are both simply roadblocks to our progress, and either need to be circumvented of bulldozed so that we can continue to make progress.

I assume I will be banned for saying these things. I don't care. We appear to already be in a situation here where everybody is equal, but some people are more equal than others.

That is nothing but starting the whole dysfunctional human mess all over again, and I won't have it. If this is where this movement is going then I'm finished with it.

Throw the bums out!

[-] 3 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

The right wing trolls made this place a into a circus which was what they wanted to do in the first place. They hate this movement and never wanted to be a part of it. These people are here to recruit people to their side and weaken those who see through the BS.

[-] 4 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

By their very nature they are against positive change.

I watched in horror, as they attacked an attempt by Occupy Florence, to come here for moral support.

These "right wingers" are not nice people, and sometimes my patience with them grows very short..

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Damn their Darkness!!! They'd rather rule, or at least side with the rulers, in Hell that be an equal in Paradise. So Damn them.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

Their level of damnation is between them and their Gods.

Me?

I will sway or thwart them according to my abilities.

Let there be more light!!!!!!!

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Let there be more light!!!!!!

[-] 2 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

Occupy Spring----------------Evolution 2012!!!!!!!!

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I don't know about others, but I am really starting to get angry at the establishment.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (17978) 2 years ago

"Get Angry" ?! Damn Straight !!

The Greek 99% are at this very moment being sacrificed at The High Altar of 'Bankster Ponzi Finance Kaputalism' and being forced to suffer extreme austerity, deprivations and hardships, purely to maintain for a little while longer - The Illusion of Pan-European Banking Solvency.

The reality of 'Innovative Financial Products" ; of Mortgage Backed Securities, Collateralised Debt Obligations, Credit Default Swaps (apparently 'Insurance Contracts on Debt Default' but actually just bets!) and other such "Derivatives" - are fast catching up with 'International High-Finance Capitalism'.

All this Unconscionable BS is based on and "derived from", the buying and selling of Compound Interest Bearing Usurious Debt, which up until now was 'controlled' by the totally artificially induced 'Business Cycle' {the ritualised regular contraction after the expansion of 'the economy' and 'money supply'} - but now the ever 'geometrically progressing' Compound Interest, means that there's Not Enough Money In The World To Pay All The F*ckin' Debt !

The Abstraction that is £MoNeY$ has now abstracted itself into the notional cyber 'hyper-reality' of 'Credit' and 'Debit' via The Tyranny of Electronic Double Entry Bookkeeping, such that All of us Everywhere are 'ensnared in The Mysterious & Medieval, Mythical Money-Matrix ... We All Need To 'Swallow The Red Pill' & Take A Good Look Around !!

For example, The Greeks need to reclaim their Democracy from their own Treacherous, Quisling 0.01%, who have sold their country to The International (in this case mainly Franco-German) Bankster Parasites. They should Immediately Default ; Offer a notional and honourable 1:10, 10% on their Onerous and 'Odious Debt' ; Reinstate The Drachma ; Demand A Referendum On This Matter ; NATIONALISE THEIR CENTRAL BANK & reclaim their Country, Integrity and Sanity !!!

A clever and useful individual and his website = http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/ .

In The UK, this year is "The Diamond Jubilee" - 60 years of the now 86 year old Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg Gotha, Battenberg (Windsor) being 'HRH Mrs. Queen' and it's a Olympic and Leap Year too. We all - wherever we are in The World, should realise and reclaim concepts of "The Jubilee", which is an Old Testament word for festivities arising from the 49 yearly, remission of debt and usury. Back then The Ancient Israelite Elders knew and understood that 'Intergenerational Permanent Debt Bondage' was a very bad thing and to be prevented. Sons could pay their fathers' or even grandfathers' debt but that anything else was Unconscionable !!

SOLIDARITY to The Greeks and to The 99% 'Wage Slaves in Debt Bondage', Everywhere !

Viva Greece & Ζήτω η Ελλάδα ...

Gnothi Seauton ..

pax et lux .

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Who do these Fuckers think they are that they can sacrifice whole nations to their greed and stupidity??!! Long live Greece!!! Down with Corporate Fascism!!!!! Long live Greece!!! Down With Corporate Fascism!!! Long Live Greece . . . !!!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (17978) 2 years ago

Multiple Dittos 'GK' and I'm loving your 'exclamation mark' work !!! ;-)

[-] 2 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

I've been angry at them for years, almost got tossed out of bank once for hollering about them stealing children's accounts with their minimum balance fees.

Or are you speaking of another establishment?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I'm talking about the whole Damned American System and everyone who supports it. I see so damned little to admire about this country anymore. If any country was ripe for political overthrow it is this one right now!

[-] 2 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

It is pretty screwed up, but take heart in this.

The "silent majority", has changed hands.

Occupy needs to find a way to make contact, with them and the Evolution will begin.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I like your way of thinking!

[-] 2 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

I'm just sayin', by spring this movement will be a bit banged up from police actions and winter in general.

It will be ripe for a re-branding, to re-energize it, and refocus it.

"Evolution" as a concept, is much easier for the general public to accept and glom onto. It would even allow for a feeling of fluidity within the movement itself.

Words matter my friend.

Use them wisely and they will be your friend.

Use them unwisely and they can become your enemy.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

By "overthrow" I mean just that, "overthrow." It is possible to overthrow with evolution.

[-] 3 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

It is possible to overthrow the World with Evolution, in fact it's the only thing that ever has.

Occupy Spring, Evolution 2012!!!!

OK as a word, evolution will drive the fundies nuts, but what doesn't?

[-] 2 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

I was a centrist before all these wars and the Tea Party and I feel people like myself must move more to left to counter this hate that is growing day by day. We need to expose this hate and use their words and actions against them.

[-] 3 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

I think we need to further reject the "left, right" paradigm.

In truth I am a "forwardest" in heart and mind.

I think that this movement still holds the key to that "forward" thinking.

To this end, I would suggest changing the "revolution" paradigm to one of "evolution".

Dropping one simple letter, could change the whole public perception of Occupy as a whole.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (17978) 2 years ago

I really like your ideas re. "Forwardism" and "R:Evolution" = Rapid Evolution and agree (perhaps reluctantly!) that perception, 'PR' and 'branding' all have a large part to play in the struggles to come.

Nice One "shooz" & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4qdJovkXFg !!

per aspera ad astra ...~~~***

[-] 3 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I like to see others not rejecting some key principle of marketing in order to further this. IMO, It's a very sensible and mature approach to turning this into something more.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (17978) 2 years ago

I think that I agree but can't help having a visceral 'reaction' to the word "marketing" ! I think that I'll have to work on this, lest I be accused of being 'reactionary' !! 'Organic Grassroots Evolution', anyone ?!

ad iudicium...

[-] 3 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Marketing only sounds evil because of the abuses of it, like adding soft low audio tones in TV commercials to create an emotional atmosphere of warmth, thus leading to an irrational and emotional connection when you see the product on the store shelf. Fortunately, I believe the idea of fixing the country sells itself. Just have to get it out there.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (17978) 2 years ago

'rkc' : Re. "I believe the idea of fixing the country sells itself.", I could NOT agree more but hey, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JeEXP717T0 ;-) pax et lux ...

[-] 2 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

Thanks for the tune and the Kudos...............:)

I hate to admit it, but the PR/propaganda ( they're the same thing, but PR does sound nicer ) stuff works.

Changing to, and holding branding on an "Evolutionary Movement", will work wonders in the spring, but it be even more necessary to hold the line on violence.

It would be a clear break from the PR baggage of "Revolution". That baggage has been used against us, to great effect in past few months.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (17978) 2 years ago

@ 'shooz' : ... & yet we're still here !!!

Only four months or so but the reality - no matter what trolls, 'in-fill-traitors' and ill wishers would try to have us think - is that the 'OWS Meme' has echoed and resonated right round this Good Earth. our beautiful, shared and only hommmmme ~{:-) !!

Thus, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDLsPwrOOhA & onwards and upwards !

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 4 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

The memes "occupy", "1%" and "99%", are now part of the vernacular.

That, in and of itself is important.

Branding the movement as "Evolutionary", could be even more so.

------Occupy the Spring-------- Evolution 2012------------

It's got a nice ring to it.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I agree about dropping the left/right paradigm...this is about right/wrong...and forward thinking. The trouble is that so many people are so used to the old arguments and classifications, they don't know anything else.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

Adaptation never goes backwards. Evolution, knows but one direction and that's forward..........:)

[-] 1 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

Nice idea but, we are becoming a more ruthless selfish society as the days pass and we will need a miracle to turn back that clock.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26680) 2 years ago

I meet more people every day, that are at least, starting to "get it", so I can't agree on this.

Young and old alike.

Truth is. We can never go back. We can only Evolve. It's what we do.

[-] 1 points by GreedKills (1119) 2 years ago

I do not have that opportunity to meet such people but I hope that you are correct and we are indeed moving ahead and leaving the hate behind.

[-] 1 points by RoughKarma (122) 2 years ago

As long as change is being discussed, I would like to propose a change in rhetoric. We need to understand the opposition better and stop trying to demonize them. We, in the end, will need everyone's cooperation to effect change. They have power that can be useful if it can be harnessed. There is no point (other than self satisfaction) for some of the rants against the right. They are simply afraid of the change, and the verbiage used only feeds/vindicates their fears. Not all, but most of them, are decent people who are afraid to lose what they have gained. Can we really fault them for such an understandable reaction? We need to connect with them at some level. The benefit of this is that, at the very least, they might stop standing in the way. Try to find common ground with them. It is easy to hate and fight the "them," but not so easy to hate and fight "us." The more of "them" that become "us" the easier this will be. We got here as a Nation, and the way back has to include and benefit everyone. The nature of hate is to divide. To end the hate, we need only bridge the gap. Shooz is right about the power of words. It can build us the bridge we need. Or destroy us.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

This is a stroy about a factory in China if you haven't heard it yet.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

Gypsy your answer to shooz is this post and others you have, I love you both, and hope we never lose you.

None of us can do this....

All of us can do this...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Move forward in unity.

( as posted elsewhere )

To abstain from voting does nothing. Protest at voting sites the non-representation of the people, forward thought and consideration. Vote for the least objectionable, the least obvious corrupt/greedy choice. Continue to protest for change and the end of corruption. But to pull out of our legal process is to hand it over to those who are systematically plowing us under.

We may not have a real candidate in this election. But to abstain from the process does not help our cause. We need to get more people involved in the process of government not less. Get the major portion of the population active. Lead them to proactive involvement. Develop unity in addressing change and confronting corruption and manipulation. This is how we win. Not by walking away and saying unfair.

Now and between elections is when we should be most active in pushing for things that will return government to us.

1) Campaign Finance reform - get money out of politics.

2) Corporate person hood - fallacy and invitation to manipulate : END IT.

3) Conflict of interest in government - Ownership of stocks and property being affected by proposed legislation.

4) Ear marking funds for projects that affect - Ownership of stocks and property by members of government.

5) No line item veto to use to clean Bills that are passed - Not having veto power on singular items attached as riders on a bill allows corruption of a bill and an end run on the legal process to pass items that would not pass on their own merit and on things which the American voter would not support.

These are some of the Dogs in our fight.

Abstaining or opting out of the process does not help us.

Uniting in common cause does help us.

Get active be proactive. Recruit the general population to partake in the process in positive fashion.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Hear, Hear!

We must use EVERY means to achieve our ends, short of violence.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You will love this one.

[-] 4 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1252) 6 days ago

Yes this is a great Idea that has been gaining momentum for several years.

~ Excellent Post Nevada1! ~

One Subject at a Time Act: (OSTA)

https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/one-subject/

Congress routinely passes unpopular laws. How? They combine them with unrelated bills that are sure to pass. The "One Subject at a Time Act" (OSTA) would prevent this.

The REAL ID Act is a perfect example of how Congressional leaders pass laws that lack majority support. This bill created a scheme Americans have always opposed — a national ID card. This idea had so little support that it couldn't even be brought to a vote in the Senate. Yet . . .

Congressional leaders got it passed anyway, by attaching it to a bill Senators were afraid to oppose — the "Emergency, Supplemental Appropriations Act for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief." (May, 2005)

Senators were scared to reject funding for the troops in Iraq and Tsunami relief, so the REAL ID Act became the law of the land.

Here's another example...

The Senate majority leader wanted to be a moral busy body. However, he lacked the votes to prohibit online poker. He simply attached his unwanted legislation to a Port Security bill that most in Congress favored. The result . . .

Online gambling was outlawed, and a whole industry was destroyed!

OSTA would prevent such outrages by requiring that . . .

Each bill must be about one subject only
Legislation passed in violation of this requirement will be considered null-and-void by the courts

Plus...

Politicians will no longer be able to hide the true subjects of their bills behind propagandistic titles such as the "PATRIOT Act," the "Protect America Act," or the "No Child Left Behind Act." No one wants to be accused of voting against patriotism, or protecting America, or of wanting to leave children behind. But none of those titles actually describes the subjects of those bills. Therefore...

OSTA requires that all titles describe what a bill will actually do, so that Congress and the public can know what the "one subject" is. Good examples of proper titles are the "Read the Bills Act," or the "Write the Laws Act," and the "One Subject at a Time Act."

In conclusion, OSTA will...

Make bills shorter, and easier to understand
Replace propagandistic titles with descriptive names
Require that all new laws are favored by a real Congressional majority
Render bills that violate these requirements unenforceable

(((You can read the full 5-page OSTA text here))): http://www.downsizedc.org/osta-legislation

Use the form at right to send your elected representatives a letter about this issue. -It's Easy-

(((Send Your Letter Here))): https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/one-subject/

Your position will be counted by each Congressional office,
Will educate the Congressional staffer who reads it,
May be passed up the chain of command,
May receive a reply (many DC Downsizers get them). If you receive such a letter, please share it with DownsizeDC at: Comments@DownsizeDC.org.
[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Don't forget The Financial Modernization Act. No one wanted to be old-fashioned... and look where that got us...the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 2 years ago

We're still here. We're just not going away. The reality of 400 U.S. citizens owning 1.7 trillion dollars in wealth (net worth) won't go away. This reality isn't healthy for anyone including themselves. Their own investments will decline in value since everyone else's quality of life suffers under these conditions.

I am just waiting, biding my time, solidifying my own position in the hope I can someday really help this cause. I just can't begin attending meetings for another year or so due to personal commitments. But I'm not going anywhere. Right wingers are such pathetic scum and disappointments as human beings. Somehow someone or something must wake them up to better possibilities for people. In the meantime I just keep watching things run their course and hope I can make it to the point where I can actively help this cause. I am literally counting the days (over 400 still -- sorry)... ModestCapitalist?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I hope there are millions out there like you, because we really cannot afford to give up unless we want to slip into outright slavery. What some don't understand is that there is simply no limit to how far these people will push if you don't push back - no limit at all. They have no basic human decency. I hope everyone is listening here - THEY HAVE NO BASIC HUMAN DECENCY.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 2 years ago

Thank you for this. I believe there are a few "bad actors" in the .1%, but there are also a few good actors, like George Soros and Warren Buffett. They agree tax codes should be modified so wealth disparities don't become ever greater. A "bad actor" though unwittingly was Dr. Michael Burry, a medical student who abandoned his medical studies to found and manage his own hedge fund which invested in credit default swaps. He turned out to have Asperger's Syndrome, a form of autism which renders the mind extremely gifted in calculating numbers. In 2004 he forsaw the coming financial debacle and invested in bankers' insurance -- or something like this; his investors betted against the housing market, or betted that there would be this many foreclosures. His fund made something like 5 billion dollars. He only dimly realized, years later, that this might not have been an ethical way to make money. A combination of this kind of person and lax laws (the repeal of Glass-Steagall) allowed the ensuing disaster. There are others in the .1% I believe must be anomalous in some way, sociopathic or otherwise impaired in terms of human empathy. I am not a psychologist but I can't imagine amassing these vast sums of money with no regard to how hard life is for the rest of us unless mentally "different." Our laws must safeguard us against risks posed by unusual psychological factors in these big money players.

It appears "they have no basic human decency."

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Long Live Greece!!! Down With Corporate Fascism!!! Long Live Italy!!! Down With Corporate Fascism!!! Long Live Spain!!! Down With Corporate Fascism!!! Long Live Portugal!!! Down With Corporate Facsism!!! Long Live The World's Oldest Democracy, The USA!!! Down With Corporate Fascism . . . !!!

[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 2 years ago

Hear, hear!!!

[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 2 years ago

What if we're a 1%er American living in a Third World country and are only 17?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Well, you might be eaten.

[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 2 years ago

Why is that?

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 2 years ago

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/cvplive/cvpstream1 where you can finally here the truth. Open your hearts and minds and join us to Occupy the White House. The Peoples House!! OWH now.....

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 2 years ago

There's reasons enough not to jump on board in the name of solidarity. The headcount will become clear when the movement becomes clear. Meanwhile I'll support removing the wealthy's foot off the neck of the poor.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

As will I.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is what I am talking about. A clean future to be implemented NOW!

Thanks for the link 1 points by ClearView (43)

http://www.hopewellproject.org/ People send this link viral!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I am talking about when I say we need to push for a new clean fuel base, to save our world and end fossil fuel dependence.

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

Perhaps it isn't what you say, but the way it is said that causes the strife and eventual banning.

Often good ideas get lost in translation and filters of emotion and thought.

I find that when I wish to offer criticism, it is best to consider my words from the side of those I wish to offer this criticism. Such consideration often moderates the tone in which my offer is made and received.

Galaga says OWS is dying because of a lack of criticism, yet it's announced death may well be premature.

Movements do not achieve results over night, nor in a few months.

A movement such as this, is wide spread and has many factions, each concerned with global, national and local issues.

With so much going on and so little time passing, is it practical to expect results?

What happens in CA is CA, what happens in NY is NY, give it time to learn to become one cohesive unit.

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[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

So maybe try a different approach?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I agree with you completely. No one should be banned here. No one, no matter what their views!

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[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

We are in agreement here entirely. Given the importance of this forum, I don't know why these problems haven't already been ironed out. My point is that we need to hear peoples stories here; people from everywhere in the world. We really need a global perpective here. This is a global problem, and we need global perspectives here to solve it. That is why I have loved to get comments from other nations.

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[-] 2 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I think you're mixing up your French and English - comity should be committee.

They should also stop making whole conversations disappear. Like this one probably will soon. Perfectly legit conversations, where the only perceived threat was being critical of OWS, or pointing out the anarchists intentions for the movement. This is done in the interest of "solidarity". But it's more like totalitarian deception.

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[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I've got an idea. There are about a thousand progressive small businesses in this country, from alternative power installers, to natural food stores, to environmental restoration companies, who would be glad to contribut five dollars a month to this cause. Why not use some of the donations to hire a full-time fundraiser? There is a lot more support for this movement than is not currently being tapped.

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[-] 6 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

I couldn't agree more. I we are the 99%, then how in the heck can we work from a standpoint of exclusiveness. It is really insane. The left- wing simply has to get over this factionalism. The Republicans will get right behind Mitt as soon as they're told, like a bunch of lemmings. Meanwhile those of us who are smarter will hold out for the impossible right now. We must stand together in this election, and then go about changing the political landscape. There simply isn't time to do anything else.

[-] 4 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

The Republicans are starting a full on assault - social issue warfare - appealing to their most politically powerful base - the Religious Right. Because that's all they've got. Rick Santorum was addressing the Religious Right yesterday where he accused Pres. Obama of being overtly hostile to faith and religion.

It's this kind of rhetoric that does the damage to our society and politics. But the Religious Right eat it up. Religion should not be a part of politics.

http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-orlando/rick-santorum-president-obama-wants-to-decapitate-religion-america

I'm not so sure Romney will win the nomination. The Evangelicals won't vote for him. They claim he isn't conservative enough. But it's really about religion. And I suspect Santorum knows it.

For as far as the Religious Right is part of the 99%, God is a higher calling.

So for this, we'll have to work harder than ever to at least pick up a few Dem seats in the House. And of course work to make sure Pres. Obama is re-elected. As much for ourselves, the liberal 99%, as for the Religious Right that are also part of the 99%. They just don't know it. They can't see beyond their sky creature. God, guns, gays (anti) and abortion (anti).

I'm not holding out for the impossible. I'm just going to work to help unseat one Republican Representative.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

Man, I hate to say it but all these stupid people are really an anchor - I mead how can you fly with these people always scaping bottom like that. The night before last I turned of a TV in a hotel room for the first time in years, and I was dumbfounded. I think I lost about 3 IQ points in half an hour of pointlessly searching the channels. MyGod, what have we done?

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You said this really nicely. The anarchists are sad because they don't understand why people have a problem with Blackblock tactics, and regular protesters are sad because they don't see how this movement, as it is, will affect positive change. In a peaceful and positive way.

There is no such thing as peaceful direct action. Only non-violent direct action. Which by its definition and practice includes some amount of violence. By it's nature, it puts particpants at odds with authority. The only difference is a matter of degrees, depending on the action.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

And a marketing firm while they're at it.

Outreach & PR could be SO MUCH better for this movement.

[-] 5 points by GypsyKing (9727) 2 years ago

If we don't define ourselves than others will define us.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

True.

[-] 0 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

This movement couldn't care less about PR. Not from day 1 and not now. The anarchists running this movement are not interested in a giant protest with tons of mainstream support that would seek to protest our government for positive change.

They are only interested in Direct Action tactics. To either terrify the government, or their most outlandish dream, of toppling the government.

Direct Action by its nature puts participants at odds with authority, at the very least. And where there absolutely will be the potential for violent clashes, as there has been already. There will only be more of this, not less.

Thinking this movement will change is foolish. It won't. It's nearly impossible to enact change with the current structure and rules of the GA.

Besides, no amount of marketing is going to overcome the fact that the movement is what it is. What would a good marketing plan do? I mean - how do you sell anarchy to the average mainstream person? I'm guessing that would be a pretty tough sell, even for a marketing genius. It's actually an interesting question though. I wonder if there is some marketing genius out there that could sell anarchy to a wider broader cross section of society to get more supporters on board.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 2 years ago

I am not an anarchist and will not follow orders given by an anarchist. Please refine your thinking about this movement.

Please stop imagining the "free market" and "marketing geniuses" are going to solve today's yawning wealth disparities. Please get over the religion of the free market. Adam Smith said free markets only work as long as information is readily available to all players, and not masked as it is today by multiple holders of equities and other big players.

ModestCapitalist?

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Here's what I would do as a marketing campaign:

  • Show the direct discrepancy between a poor family that is being evicted, and the rich that are profiting off of it. One shot showing the rich executive (maybe one of their mansions), and another showing the poor family. Make it a direct contradiction with the message "who's side are YOU on?"

For example, an ad showing Tiny Tim vs. Ebenezer Scrooge could have ran during the holidays. That is a classic story that nearly everyone knows.

  • If we could have a day where everyone adhered to a "business casual" dress code and show that, yes, we are just like you. Show the variety of people at a GA and show that, no, we're not all a bunch of unwashed hippies like Fox News wants you to believe.

  • We could just do something simple, like having a series of short spots where someone describes how the 1% has harmed them. Show a variety of ages and races to show that these stories cut across demographics.

  • I don't think you want to market Anarchy as a whole, but the GA concept is quite smart. You send the message that "YOU have a voice in this movement, come join a GA today" and that will motivate people who are tired of authoritarian structures. People are told what to do every day, whether by managers, companies, or the police. People are controlled, and offering them some control in the form of relatively equal participation is a strong message to send out.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Those are some good ideas. OWS puts out lots of News articles and videos on the News Page here that attempt to put OWS in a good light. There was a very moving video just recently about Oakland.

http://www.occupywallst.org/article/oakland-perspectives-move-in-day/

But the truth is, it isn't really necessary to have a tremendous amout of people to be effective with a Direct Action campaign. Oakland is a good example. It only took about 100 people or so trying to break into a building to make a pretty big statement and get alot of attention.

I don't think the GA concept is very smart at all. Because most people realize that Direct Democracy is mob rule. And in the case of OWS, it is minority rule. It is fundamentally flawed on so many levels and easily manipulated. For some people it gives them the warm fuzzies though. But for most people, it doesn't fool them one bit.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

I agree about the GA process. Here are a couple of old threads with excellent critiques of the consensus process:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/consensus-a-warning-from-a-former-user/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-the-ga-consensus-process-truly-democratic/#comment-256411

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Exactly! Funny how you and I are both on that thread. lol. 3 months ago even. Here we are still talking about it. Funny in a sad way. Or sad in a funny way. I don't know which exactly.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

We were just ahead of our time. ; )

Now that the number of people participating is dwindling, perhaps it is time to approach our GA's about reconsidering the process. I wonder if anyone has done that.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Probably no. That's why pub crawls exist! Propose a pub crawl and it's over as soon as everyone is sufficiently too sloshed to move on. Then - take the vote!

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Jeesh! 100%. That's just nuts. I can't even get a group of friends to agree on a restaurant for dinner with 100% agreement! So then we have more drinks until no one really cares anymore where we go to eat. lol.

You should try to get that changed. It may require alcohol. lol

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

Great idea! I'll propose we meet at a pub for our next GA. But could we get consensus on that ... : /

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

lol. You're so funny.

That's an interesting thought. What are the rules at your GA for making a proposal like that? I know that OWS can block a proposal with only a 10% down vote.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

100% consensus. No wonder there are like 10 people at our GA now.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

I do have reservations about the specifics of the GAs. For one thing, there should be an agenda that the assemblies act on, so that things actually get done instead of having hours of debate. Also, having paper slips for each issue voted on would be way more accurate than doing the hand gestures once the GA gets larger than 20 or so people. I still agree with the general principal, however.

Why do you think that Direct Democracy is mob rule? It seems that getting everyone an equal voice (in theory) would placate any mobs, not incite them.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

See the reply by LetsGetReal above. Do some research. Direct Democracy is riddled with problems from top to bottom. That's why we don't use it as a form of government. Or for any other major decision making for that matter. The closest thing to it is the proposition initiatives in some states, like CA. And that is pretty much a disaster too.

Your point - in theory - is correct. Theoretically it works. In practice, it does not work.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

record the vote by camera and release to the public

[-] 0 points by OccupyReality66 (16) 2 years ago

The problem with the GA's i have seen is they only represent the people able to make it there. Also unions as an example will flock to the GA for particular votes thus throwing consensus. The GAs were a good idea but more needs to be done to correct them.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

That's true of any sort of decision making. You're "voice" isn't heard if you don't vote either.

There is nothing stopping the conservatives from swarming a GA and voting in their best interests, just like union members or everyone else. I guess at that point the votes come down to who does the best "get out the vote campaign" much like what we see come election time.

I like Matt's idea. The GA minutes are good, but having actual vote counts would be helpful.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 2 years ago

The fact that 400 people are worth 1.7 trillion dollars isn't dying. It will remain a fact until tax codes are changed and the IRS is allowed to actually enforce the tax code. The Bush tax breaks on the 1% wealthiest need to expire for good. We need to re-create our own economy, our own vibrant communities and societies. We need to take back our lives and not be so beholden to those Walmarts and other huge conglomerates who take away from our communities. It's true you pay more for stuff produced locally, but doesn't that make you value it that much more? There have to be balances between goods produced locally and those imported, with market transparency. The problem is that capital has so greatly concentrated into the hands of a few that most of us are stuck buying stuff from these big corporations whether we like it or not.

Just a thought. Thanks for being there, OWS.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

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[+] -4 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Your support has dwindled to nothing. The next protest is going to be the real 99% against your fantasy 99%. I am sure the real 99% are not going to be as gentle and kind as the police have been. Your leaderless and mostly pointless movement has caused tax dollars that could be spent on educating children, feeding the elderly and a slew of other causes to be spent on police to removing your sorry asses from places they don't belong. You claim to be peaceful yet you continue to break the law by camping where camping is not allowed, blocking traffic and sidewalks and in general endangering yourselfs and the public around you. Do you bother to read the comments the real 99% makes?
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-744504?hpt=us_bn2

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 2 years ago

Uh huh. Sure. Right. Okay. Fine. Ramble on...

[-] 1 points by Progression (143) 2 years ago

"I am sure the real 99% are not going to be as gentle and kind as the police have been." Are you supporting violence? And then immediately after, criticizing a movement on non-violence? Dissent will never be silenced as long as money stays in politics, bailouts continue to occur, and corporate oppression exists. You are free to criticize OWS as much as you like but you cannot silence anyone here.

"Your support has dwindled to nothing." You do not dictate who individuals here choose to support. You are the one living a fantasy if you think everyone will just take it laying down.