Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: If your ship doesn't come in...

Posted 2 years ago on May 4, 2012, 8:38 p.m. EST by JoeTheFarmer (2654)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

... swim out to meet it.

    -- Jonathan Winters

53 Comments

53 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by amanofnoimportance (82) from Orlando, FL 2 years ago

There are multiple reprisals for if the ship does not come in.

Swimming out imperils you.

Why swim out, when you can sue the captain?

[-] 0 points by MoodDaddy (25) 2 years ago

Or you could occupy the beach and demand that the govenment swim out ther for you and bring it in.

[-] 2 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

Aphorisms are like God, both nice inspiring thoughts that rarely have utility beyond your own consciousness.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

For me that has always been an inspiring metaphor.

As for reality,if a statement has influence on you it can affect your future reality. When I was young there were several that did inspire and I am glad for their inspiration.

What is interesting here is that the responses below reflect on how the the preconceptions of the individuals that post them most likely affect their lives. Some see the mountain as an impassible impediment to their possible destination while others see it as a challenge to ascend.

Perception is reality.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Do you really think a simplistic man vs. nature allegory is applicable to every obstacle in life? Last time I checked, mountains don't give a shit about me or you one way or the other. Man vs Man, now there is a whole other bowl of nachos.

Reality does not give a shit about your perception. Reality is the colliding point of different perceptions.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Even in man vs man perception is a powerful factor. The best example I can think of relating to perception and it's effect on reality is this clip from Shakespeare's Henry V. It also shows how impetus or lack thereof has an affect on outcome. Against great odds the English were victorious.

Notice especially the perception and mindset of the men in the first 30 seconds. Then see how Henry uses his perception and imagination of the future to motivate his men. Had he not given that speech the outcome would have been a different reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yZNMWFqvM

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

What fucking perceptions of reality got them to start fucking fighting in the first place? What a narrow fucking view you have! You use confirmation bias like a one legged man uses a crutch.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

You miss the point on that one too. The scene is not about whether we should be fighting wars or not. Throughout history people have been invaded by other groups of humans, tribes, states, countries... It does not matter what continent on the planet.

The play is about being faced with overwhelming odds deciding whether to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing end them.

There is nothing narrow minded about that. I would love it if humans stopped fighting however the REALITY is it never seems to happen. Life is full of adversity whether we like it or not. It is how we perceive and deal with it that defines our course and reality.

By the way your login name is very appropriate.

Jaded - Made dull, apathetic, or lacking enthusiasm typically after overindulgence.

[-] -1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Could you possibly beat your alpha male chest any harder? You are the one who entirely missed the point. There can be multiple reasons for any given outcome. Are heroic actions in the face of overwhelming odds wonderful? IDK, Bravery and Stupidity can be said to go hand in hand. Also, the story could be told from a different point of view and a whole new perception of character would be unveiled. Your still following your confirmation bias like a puppy on a leash.

The real point here is - even a fifth grader knows that to define the reality around him, he needs to use all the words in the dictionary. Jaded. Impetus. Arrogance. Heroic. Cowardly. Sacrifice. Whatever.

It takes a lot of words to describe reality. It isn't about just the ones you favor.

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

When did I beat my chest? I was having a discussion when you started using words like "fucking", "simplistic", "stupid"...

I refrained for at least ten posts from firing back.

[-] 0 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

If you can't see my point of view, then think harder....

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

First it is not about man vs nature, again you missed the point. It is about impetus and perseverance.

You missed the point on "perception is reality" as well., Two people standing on a corner can perceive what is in front of them in a completely different manner. How each person perceives what the see is their reality. If you asked them to "write down what happened on the corner today" you would get two completely different stories. That perception has a lot to do with how we act and behave. Our behavior and actions will in turn determine our future reality. In that way, reality has everything to do with perception whether it gives a shit or not.

If you feel stuck in a situation and believe there is no way out you will remain in that situation.

There are some in the OWS movement that understand this. The ones that want to end crony capitalism, government bailouts, subsidies, and tax loopholes. They want to stop bills aimed at taking away our freedoms, or giving rights people based on groups. In the past laws were made based on race. Today we have folks that want to base them on sexual preference. I would say going after those issues is in a sense swimming out to the ship to gain freedom and equal rights.

There are others that want the government to swim out and pull the ship in for them. They believe there should be a cap on profits, a guaranteed wage, everything provided. They believe there should be no mountains to climb or rivers to cross. Everything should be equal and flat. Those that climbed the mountain are evil and should be punished. The mountain should be flattened from under them.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Missed the point? Your ideological head is so far up your ass, you can't think any other way.

It is about individual impetus and perseverance. (OPINION).

Which you then build one assumption after another assumption on top of. A ship coming in and climbing mountains make nice allegories, but FACTS they do not make. In fact, there are no facts in one single damn thing you said. But that is where you play this crazy ideological loop in your head over and over. Wake up. This IS a fucking trick used to scapegoat the most vulnerable in society.

BTW, Reality still does not give a shit about your perception.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I define my own reality which is based on the decisions I make every minute.

Like right now I am ending this conversation and taking the dog for a nice long walk by the river. Now that is a reality I will enjoy.

[-] 0 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Your decisions do not determine when rain falls, when the earth quakes, and therefore stupid, do not determine reality. Get over your self-worship and self-importance. JoeTheFarmer - WTF?? Is that the pagan idol name you created for your alpha male self.

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

My decisions do affect my personal reality.

When I was working full time, attending college, and do homework the my friends wanted me to come out an party all the time. One said, "You could die tomorrow" to which I replied "What about the slight chance that I live to be 80?" He now live at his parents and works in a deli while I have a house and family and run a successful business.

Sure I cannot make it rain but I can determine what my overall day to day reality looks like.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Wow! All of life is now reduced to a simple comparison of Joe and one of his friends. Unbelievable. Astonishing! IDK why I am wasting my breath but I will say it one more time - confirmation bias.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Hence OWS desire for totally new systems.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

False.

The desire is for the systems to be functioning properly. FOR THE PEOPLE.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Can we agree to disagree? I know there are more people in OT that want new systems vs those that want to reform the current ones.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Until you can gather and present factual numbers - the only thing you can truly say is that the movements are confronting greed corruption and crime.

This is a leaderless movement (s) of people disgusted with the meltdown the causes of the meltdown and the current state of affairs.

Deal with the issues.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

"The process is the demand" "participatory consensus" Are these sounding familiar?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28483) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Your point would be?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

....nevermind...ugh.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (356) 2 years ago

Inspiring thought in your consciousness is precisely where the maximum utility lies.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Sharks swim in those waters. Libe(R)tarian sharks. They will eat you alive.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (356) 2 years ago

Could I ask you what is the reason you emphasize the "R" so much in your posts?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's to demonstrate the (R)epelicantism of it all.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

If the possibility of fighting sharks holds you back, you will always be standing on the shore watching the ships of others go by.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

So then you agree with the Somali's?

If that ship is within range it must surely be yours?

Do you really think they'd let them take it if they swam out?

[-] 3 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

You seem to be having a hard time understanding the concept of a metaphor. "Your ship" is not actually a boat. I understand that it requires abstract thought and imagination which not everyone has. With an open imaginative mind you would understand the inspiration the quote intends.

By the way, here is another favorite:

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”

-- Albert Einstein

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Sorry. I pushed the imagination all the way back around to reality.

Going back to the adage/metaphor, do you think it would have worked out any different for the Inca had they swam out to greet the Spanish Armada?

Or the sailors in old Shanghai? Of course if they swam out to the ship we wouldn't have said they'd been Shanghaied.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

You are still stuck on the boat thing and missing the point of the metaphor. I am actually not all that surprised.

It has nothing to do with ships, pirates, sharks, or sailors. It has to do with impetus and perseverance.

[-] 0 points by engineer4 (356) 2 years ago

I agree. I think the problem for some is that they see problems instead of solutions. BTW, I like all the quotes you posted.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I'm just stuck in reality, while you prefer misleading metaphors, only so far as they fit where you want them to fit.........

My interpretations are far to accurate for you to comprehend.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Your "interpretations" are way off the mark.

To say that the quote has anything to do with pirates stealing from ships passing by is misleading.

To say it has anything with drafting sailors by coercion is misleading. The quote has to do with impetus and perseverance.

As for being stuck in reality, that is not a great place to be stuck, I have taught my children that imagination is more important than knowledge. They seem to be thriving on that tenet.

Throughout history metaphors were used by folks with great minds. Great minds like Shakespeare, Einstein, Aristotle, Confucius, Jesus, Gandhi, Crazy Horse, Chief Joseph, Emerson, Asimov, Clarke, Frost, Dickens, Homer, Socrates,

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You see, that's the problem with cookie cutter adages and metaphors. They are trite.

I actually did apply my imagination to come up with interpretations that don't match the original intent, and you can't handle it.

I'm sorry, but they are every bit as accurate as the original, perhaps more so.

Wanna start adding in shoals and rip tides, or the simple fact that if it's "my ship", why the hell is waiting off shore??

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Well, that is the whole point. Your ship is not given to you or provided to you by someone else. You have to go get it. That reminds me of another great quote:

"The constitution only guarantees your right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

--Benjamin Franklin

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Pretty good change the quote.

What's it say about those that purposefully place impediments against the goal?

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

The metaphor for the impediments are the sharks someone mentioned above. You have to fight off to get to your ship.

As a programming consultant I face that all the time. I have to be the best around if I want the next contract. I have to be good and also convince others that I am worth what I charge. I do not have job security, benefits, pension, sick time, vacation, overtime. I have to provide these things for myself. I do not see them as impediments I see them as challenges to overcome. Only with that attitude will you succeed.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Have fun with your perfect little metaphorical life.

I'm sure you're just a super human being "consultant" that eats all sharks in his way........for now.

Lucky for you, you don't actually have to physical labor and actually risk life and limb.

So swim in your metaphorical sea while it still exists, and always cast aspersions upon those you consider less than you, of which I'm sure you feel there are many.

I hope you never need compassion in your life, because you are unable to express it yourself.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I've done plenty of construction and its how we rolled in that industry.

Get in, kick ass, get out.

[-] 2 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

You really have a lot of nerve judging me when you do not know me. You need to quit your condescension. You know nothing about me. You know nothing of my compassion. You want to talk about compassion?

I have done plenty of physical labor in my life. I don't have to do it quite as much now because I educated myself with masters degrees in engineering and computer science. I did this while working full time for 9 years. During those years I worked in a children's hospital feeding, dressing, cleaning, and wiping the asses of kids who could not do it themselves. http://www.matheny.org

As I learned enough about computers I designed controllers so they could drive motorized, wheelchairs with their heads, elbows, knees, etc. while still feeding, clothing, and cleaning. My time now is better spent using my brain. I have created environmental controls so they could turn on the light, change the TV channel, and even play Nintendo. I created a system where they can play a synthesizer with those same controls (head, elbow, fist, knees) Many of these kids I started with have grown and I have been to some of their weddings.

I paid my tuition and loans. I went to state schools to save money. When I graduated I stated a business and I am constantly working to stay ahead of the game. I still volunteer for the kids and am very active in the community. I have my own kids involved volunteering as well. One of our favorite projects is America's grow a row where we grow food for food pantries in our area. It is physical labor but we do not risk life and limb. http://americasgrowarow.org

So before you judge me take a look at yourself. My life is full of compassion.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

What a comedic genius he was.

And a wise quote.

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

At least someone her appreciates the meaning of the quote.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6592) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

What amazes me are the ones that didn't, or missed the point entirely.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21064) 2 years ago

Are you getting at the belief that some hold that the poor are poor due to their own shortcomings? That's what I'm taking from your little post and I think it's nonsense.

[-] -1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

That is what you take because you chose to see things that are not there. Perhaps you have a conspiracy complex.

It is one of my favorite inspirational quotes. I often think of it when things at work are going against me. Here are some more of my favorites:


If someday they say of me that in my work I have contributed something to the welfare and happiness of my fellow man, I shall be satisfied. -- George Westinghouse


It was a high counsel that I once heard given to a young person, "Always do what you are afraid to do." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson


Goals are the fuel in the furnace of achievement. -- Brian Tracy


You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -- Wayne Gretzky


"If we did all the things we are capable of, we would literally astound ourselves." -- Thomas Edison


Every artist was first an amateur. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson


And my all time favorite:

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -- Albert Einstein

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (21064) 2 years ago

I am far from a conspiracy person and I honestly told you what I took from it and I'm glad you clarified. It still seems a bit Herman Cainish to me. In this country you can drown while swimming out to the elusive opportunities that our political and economic system has provided.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

....and upon reaching the ship I find: Private Property - No Trespassing. Sigh.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Despite serious mental illness, Johnathan Winters, swam out to that ship on a daily basis, and then proceeded to pull it back to shore, for all of us to board his great vessel of humor.

[-] -2 points by NationalSocialist (-3) from San Francisco, CA 2 years ago

True.